Capitalists will defend this

Capitalists will defend this

>expects Businesses to pay workers more
>will be the first to complain when people can't afford the inevitable price rise of goods to cover costs.

Should I:
>Pay some highschool kid/nigger who will probably quit or get fired in a month more
OR
>Invest in expanding your business

You have freedom to choose where you work.

Replace wages with profit sharing.

you mean attack this

yes.
I think she is idealistic and naive, but not wrong in principle. You should pay living wages. but you should above all pay a fair amount. And depending on the job that may not be a living wage. In general, no interference in the autonomy of the individuals in a market is a good idea.

Or you could get a robot to flip burgers for less than $8/h.

The employer needs you, you need the employer. If you ask for to much money he will replace you. If you do good work and he want's to keep you he has to pay more or you would leave.

You are not entitled to someones elses money.

The phenomenon of Capitalism is that it eventually leads to a form of communism, ie; universal income.

As my friend and I were discussing is that we're now in the stage of transition of moving from Capitalism to a Communist based market.

That's literally called "wages" you dumb fuck.

Wages are a representation of a person's life worth. Some people are just worth less.

These threads are always funny because they attract the 17 year old ancaps, neets in basements, and college students in daddy dime who have yet to earn a degree but are experts on the subject.

making a man work full time for less than he can live off is by definition unsustainable.

(((capitalism))) is for the 3rd world. whites dont need to live like this.

universal income will destroy civilization and I don't think we are close to the point where we have to implement it.
Look at all the people who recive welfare for an extended periode of time. They are miserable and slowly killing themself because they have no purpose in life and don't have to work for their basic needs.
Capitalism will find a way to employ people in the furture even if there is no more manual or mental labour available.

Choosing from different tables to get scraps from

whites just commit suicide by slowly expanding the welfare state.

>if you don't support my lifestyle, then you don't deserve to make money

t. sociopath

Wake up, it's reality

Life has never been fair

>a Communist based market.
Nice oxymoron.

Some dumb person (probably communist) wants to be paid more. Don't we all? Cry about it, that will help.

Also what is the definition of a 'living wage'
Kinda depends on how you want to live and how much you want to spend, now doesn't it?

If your skills and competence is really worth so little that you fear you cannot survive the wages they provide you, you should consider expanding your skills/competence.

Minimum wage jobs are "starter" jobs. One should be doing this when they are 15-17... In high school.. over the summers etc. Build your work experience from the bottom up. After high school, if you have two or three summer jobs where you show you come into work on time and on schedule, aren't a total asshat, then chances are you move up to a little bit better job that pays a bit better.
Being over 25 and still making minimum wage means either you are a horrible worker who doesn't show up or is the above asshat, or you never thought you were going to have to work in the first place. Either of these shows issues with YOU not with the employers out there.
Strive for better than minimum wage, earn it. Then its not an issue any more.
In reality, all you have to do is show up, on time, be nice, and work hard. Sure it is not easy, but nothing worth having ever is.

Isn't the real problem that people cling to jobs their should have outgrown ten years ago, then trying to convert their waiter position into something less awkward? I haven't met an actual employee that can't afford to house himself and eat properly.

Somehow I get the sense that you'd be whistling a different tune if you were at a disadvantage and someone was saying that to you.

I'm not on top of the world

If you don't accept reality, you'll never make any progress

Business owners have more risks at stake than an employee. When an employee quits or gets laid off or is fired that's the end of it.

When a boss gets out of business he still has to pay off loans, office lease, various insurances, debts, taxes etc. while you just go to collect your EBT card and chill for a couple of months.

Whats a living wage?

Single mom, 3 kids, 4 phones, 5 bedroomhouse, 3 cars, central air.

Or

3 families in a 3 bedroom double widsharing cooking, babysitting, cars, with one landline, gardening planters, 12 chickens, 2 goats

So who is going to start that business? Are all the future employees going to pool their money to buy the land, building , materials. Then are they going to hope the business makes a profit? Are they willing to make almost no money for years as they wait for their share of the profits that might not come for 5-10 or even 20 years?

>t.boomer

Some people's *labor* is worth less. The other guy is an edgelord

>capitists will defend this
>socialists won't provide a reason why they shouldn't

Sage

>be human
>look for job
>see one that pays minimum wage
>accept job and start working
>demand to get paid more because you can't make a living wage
>ignore the fact that you knew the wage when you applied

Walmart would go broke in less than a month if they paid all their employees five dollars more. Either that, or they would have to make major cuts in employment. If you took the Walton fortune and divided it evenly among workers, each of them would make about $1.17, once.

People don't realize that if we didn't have a minimum wage, shitty companies would just go out of business more. Nobody would want to work for $3 an hour, so any company that tried to pay a less-than-decent wage would run out of labor. Eventually, minimum wages would be independent of industry, and the general population would be a lot better off.

Employment is a voluntary contract, if somebody is willing to sell their labor for a certain price then who the fuck is Kayla O'Brian to tell them that they can't.
Would they be better of if the were just replaced with robots? Your local fast food restaurant needs like 3-4 guys in the kitchen and a bunch of kiosks where people can order. Truck and cab drivers can be replaced by self driving trucks in a few years. You want to speed that process up, go ahead and fight for a "living wage".

What most people don't realise is that a decent minimum is protection for locals against an oversupply of labor thanks to mass migration.

In Australia, we are being swamped by asian students. If locals were to compete for jobs according to supply and demand, there would be a race to the bottom we could never win. For the Chinese and Indians, there is no bottom. Chinese students receive money from their family to subsidise their bid for a permanent residency visa and citizenship, so any money extra is better than no money.

OP is right, if your business can not provide liveable wages then you business should fail. The evolutionary free market will optimise around whatever the immovable parameters are; liveable wages might as well be one.

So is there also going to be "loss sharing"? Or do you want to make this just a one-sided equation where nobody would ever want to run a business and carry the risk.

...

No...
t.genx

Now get to work.

The man agrees to it. He isnt being forced. Fuck off. If he wants more money he needs to be worth it.

>Walmart would go broke in less than a month if they paid all their employees five dollars more
being this cucked must really be hard on you.

actively defending those that are keeping you oppressed WEWLAD at its finest

"Living wage" is an arbitrary metric leftist use when they want to paid more than they're worth. They never say what a living wage entails and some retards think it should be enough to practically give you a home in the suburbs with two cars and the ability to always buy the latest iPhone. Fuck them, its about entitlement and wanting that which you didn't earn

But I agree. Farmers shouldn't be able to pay Juan and Jose below minimum wage to pick crops.

>those that are keeping you oppressed
How is being employed oppressive in any way?

communism creates 3rd world shitholes too. Hitler's national socialism was basically capitalism with a slight degree of income redistribution

Ok, so don't have a job. Just don't be surprised when you are homeless.

Your solution is no tables at all?
And/or more people looking for scraps? (less businesses, less jobs, more unemployed)

Globalists want this you fucking idiot why do you think they want open borders

The weak deserve to be stepped over, frankly. This is nature. If I were weak, I would probably beg for pity too - but the cries for pity of the useless is worth little. The pity of a man considered a master is something, indeed, but just realize that's the only thing you live for. Indentured to this hope for generosity.

You don't have to work for Walmart, you can choose to work elsewhere. You don't have the right yo come into a business and you don't own, with no skill set to bargain with, and demand they pay you more than you're worth. The person with a problem is you, not the person you're trying to get a job with

This, exactly.

>thinks degree means you know something about subject...

Not everyone has equal worth.
Take those children who are born only with the parts of the brain required to maintain a living organism, are they worth the same as someone who, say, will make a scientific breakthrough that leads to the cure for cancer?

If you honestly think that everyone is equal then when forced to choose which of these two people to kill, you would flip a coin or randomly choose.

In reality some people are simply more valuable to the world and to society. It's not edgy to state this.

...

Part time jobs were never meant to be a career
Go fuck yourself

what if your job isn't fucking worth shit, what happened to being paid what your labor was worth

When there is a decent minimum wage employers stop selection based upon who is willing to work for the least (shit tier immigrant slaves) and instead become a bit more discerning about the spend and hire the best of the bunch.

When it is economically cheaper for people to work like mindless machines, being smart is slightly less relevant and technological progress slows.

NPD sufferer detected

Jesus christ what a childish attitude.

I'd empty my bank account if someone could point me to a humble progressive/SJW

protip: you can't.

marxists are disillusioned with how important they are. hell to a certain extent we all are. but not quite like the progressive cancer.

if we lose our small business then every town will look the same, which is already largely occuring. every town will lose it's character, no more charming districts of unique shops and restaurants. it's going to be all macdonalds, walmart, montanas, kelseys, burger king, and corporate shopping centers and malls that all have the exact same chain stores.

it's hurting human morale, giving us less reason to be proud of our communities. and it is further centralizing the power to sell until only the most wealthy corporate monopolies are able to sell things.

we need a different minimum wage for small retail business, force larger retail business to pay larger wages. if walmart can't afford higher wages then let it fall. if mom and pop pancake house wants to offer low wages and someone still wants to work there, just let it happen.

we need to do more to protect small business and crush soul sucking culture wrecking monopolies. and having seperate minimum wage for large vs small retail business would be a start.

sure it would be nice if every business could afford to pay high wages. but let's be realistic. do you want to live in a world where small business has been completely crushed? no you don't, so accept a compromise, it's the only way.

I'm balding you asshole so why not shave your hairline back an inch in the interest of fairness to me. Don't be selfish and greedy now.

dumb

So when did everyone grow out of the universal basic income phase?

I love this argument, it's so ridiculous only an American can believe it.
Everything is okay! You can choose the water you're going to drown in!

Or they see high/rising labour costs and seek to invest in technology to replace them (which only has a fixed cost with low maintenance costs), and so technology progresses quicker since there is demand for it

>be you
>have no skills
>work for minimum wage
yea that sounds about right.

>I hate small business.

i've been a contractor my whole working life and I've always had issues with pricing...couldn't figure out what to charge...how much is my work worth. finally learned my worth...and its what people are willing to pay.

you dont HAVE To take a minimum wage job...mowing lawns with a $50 lawnmower in a robot neighborhood brings in a shit ton more cash than a full time minimum wage job

people who work these jobs and say there is nothing else are just fucking lazy or disabled....sad truth.

I am currently unemployed and almost drained on savings. I expect no pity or mercy and it has only made me search harder, more creatively for jobs and has made me work harder on my school work.

I might not be able to pay rent in September but I'm sure as shit not going to demand a "living wage" because I wasted my earlier years getting fucked up and staving off school instead of acting like a responsible human being. I fucked myself and now I have to dig myself out of a hole, not expect gibbmes and pats on the back.

Never "grew into it".

Barely an argument. If you're saying that there is no freedom to choose since all choices are equally bad/not worth choosing, then what is your solution.
The current one being proposed is to reduce the choices available to people (higher wages/less jobs), and increase the number of people choosing (less jobs/more unemployed), while only benefiting a select few who keep their jobs.

Either propose a sensible solution or stop being a faggot.

>If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business
That's just wrong, plain and simple. As long as I have other options but to hire YOU I can very well afford to be in business.

>welcomes millions and millions of migrants who dont have skills
>only people who hire them are small businesses / warehouses who can't pay more than minimum wage
>destroy small businesses - millions of people out of work.
>destroy small businesses - the main way migrants progress up the socioeconomic ladder

fuck me these people are thick as shit..

>small businesses deserve to exist even if they're massively inefficient.

This is an unusual perspective, user. It's K-selection at its finest, at the point of probably peak r-selection in the history of humanity. It'll get better though. r always brings K in its wake.

as a shitty low value person with fuck all on his resume i might gladly accept working for a lower wage for a time, since nobody would be willing to hire me if they had to pay full price for me.

low level jobs used to be for high school kids and housewives and shit, they weren't meant to be careers. but now with people failing all over the place, burger flipper and gas pumper become lifetime careers and they want career wages

poverty wage =/ living wage.

If it wasn't a living wage you'd eventually starve, supply of cheap labor would decrease and the wages would have to increase.

south americans chiming in on economics

get out rofl what are u doing pablos

Soon, everything that is not high-level programming will be considered "burger flipping".

We should just print more money then everyone will be rich! What could go wrong???

the alternative is frankly too terrible, it's not about deserving to exist. it's about do you want to live in a world where they don't exist? a world where only large chain store monopolies can even afford to do business?

Indeed... low level jobs are great if you use it as an opportunity to LEARN how a business is run. honestly I learned more about business working at mcdonalds than at university

Are burgers even flipped any longer? Don't they use appliances with two hot surfaces?
Fastfood workers literally assemble your order like it's Legos, then want to be paid 15 fucking dollars to do that.

>t. autist who swallowed too many molycult memes

Its the same way of think8ng as Dekulakization.
"Vladimir Ilyich Lenindescribed them as "bloodsuckers, vampires, plunderers of the people and profiteers, who fatten on famine". "

>people shouldnt be able choose from they where they can buy even its costs more

...

If you cannot produce more than $5/hour of revenues for the business, you should not be paid more than $5/hour. Why the fuck is this so hard to understand?

Businesses like Walmart and McDonalds should raise prices, they are far too cheap for what they are. Food is priced absurdly low considering how important it is. Capitalism has made us greedy penny pinchers when it comes to buying food, but happy to splash out on smartphones and cars.

...

>where do big businesses originally come from.jpg

>big businesses have always been big businesses.USeducation

If they raise prices, they will lose business. They will then have to lay people off. The real minimum wage is $0/hr.

Fine, be qualified to do a job that pays for your qualifications rather than one that pays for your lack of. Qualifications, hard/soft skills, and experience as adds value, if you don't have those, you're worthless and will get paid as such. These fucks are the same ones that only want to work one zero-skilled job, in comfy a/c indoor environment, minimal exertion, only working 35 hours a week, no overtime, and expect to be able to afford a $1,200/mo cozy apartment that niggers can't rent out as well. The lazy will always want to drag the most ass and get paid the most and will drag those down that work hard to their level rather than putting effort in. Work a job that is hard labor in unfavorable conditions (warehouse work pays nice, $13-$15 starting with guaranteed OT) or get a nonmeme degree.

this whole thread is just economically literate vs capitalism makes my fee fees hurt.
"but that's not RIGHT"
"people DESERVE more"
"you SHOULD raise minimum wage"
all of these are normative statements.
You need to assess the actual consequences of your 'solutions' to these 'problems' before you start spouting shit.

>I love being oppressed because one day I might become one of the oppressors

Wage is determined by the market. If you can't survive off of it then no one will do the job. The problem is socialism has broken that by making the government subsidise the employee through welfare. Kill the welfare state and pay will go up.

People will always need food, low elasticity of demand. Basic economics.

>hey I want a job
>well I'll give you 10 an hour
>WTF I CAN'T LIVE OFF IT GOD THIS IS SO UNFAIR AND UNBELIEVABLE FUCKING SHIT
>so do you want the job?
>oh yes sir, thank you

If you don't like your pay, don't take the job. If you want more money, ask for a raise. If you NEED more money, either get a different job that pays more, or organize a union and negotiate better conditions/wages with the management. Why the fuck should it be the federal government's job to make your shitty job pay $5 more an hour?

>anarchist
>likes markets
>advocating profit sharing
Hi Proudhon.

Its not a competitive model. You can go run a business that way now and people do. But they survive only because the operator is OK subsidizing the employees and no one else came along to knock them out of business yet.

>If they raise prices, they will lose business.
i don't care, it's macdonalds
i want big chain monopolies to lose business

small business = low minimum wage

chain store monopolies that blight the landscape like a plague of mediocrity and soul crushing sameness everywhere = higher minimum wage