Germany still had massive strength after their failed attempt to take Moscow early in the war. Why did they just give up? Why didn't they siege it like they did with Leningrad? Taking Moscow would have most likely ended the war then and there...
So, why did the Germans decide to just pack up and retreat when they still had more than enough manpower as a whole to throw at Moscow?
Two reasons
1. Mussolini's invasion of Greece delayed the German invasion. Had this not happened, he would have.
2. Hitler's encirclement doctrine. He focused too much on killing off soviet soldiers and not enough on capturing key cities.
Also when they reached Moscow it was winter and their equipment was failing. SOldiers weren't prepared for the winter. That's why the delay of the operation caused them to lose
They a considerable lacking in resources and allot of German soldiers froze to death.
Because they didn't have the strength to take on Moscow by that time, you're wrong. Also taking Moscow wouldn't have done anything, the Russians would just bury deeper into Siberia.
>2. Hitler's encirclement doctrine. He focused too much on killing off soviet soldiers and not enough on capturing key cities.
this
Hitler's autism about completely destroying the Soviet Union made him make retarded strategic decisions like laying Leningrad under siege because he wanted to starve the defenders to death instead of just taking the city
As seen with the french invasion by Napoleon.
why do people like you always ask particular strategical questions when it's readily apparent you have no basic conception of the underlying logistics of Eastern front during WWII? What does the answer even mean to you then? How are you going to process it if someone gives you an answer?
>Also taking Moscow wouldn't have done anything
Wrong. It would have been a major blow to morale.
If you are a soldier you don't go to war if you are certain you are going to lose the war. That's why Russian morale was the worst at the beginning of the war and became better after Moscow, Stalingrad etc... at the beginning almost all Russians thought they are going to lose, then it changed.
by hitlers own words "i cant just drive a truck into moskow and take it"
also aslong as the caucuses oil fields and tankograd where still operational the soviets would not capitulate.
fuck the British empire for NOT joining hitler
fuck fuck fuck fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
we would be on mars by now, no US no USSR problems.....no cold war, no sjw, no or min aids, no vietnam, blacks would be forced to drive mercs/porsches on autobahns traversing africa, and have food an sanitation .... No middle east issues, no china issues.....japan not waeboded
Because there would be nothing to take.
Russians would burn everything down so there would be nothing to capture.
1) Winter
Nothing that they say to you here is reason enough for hitler to lose that battle
The winter was the great cause of their defeat, they lost all their vehicles and equipment
To that add that the fucking Soviets burned villages / cities so that when the Germans arrived there would be nothing left to resupply with
How come Finland could stop the Soviet army in the 30s but Germany got cucked by the Soviets in the 40s?
you are retarded, capturing moscow would cause a huge drop in soviet morale
finland was prepared for the winter
German supply lines were already stretched fantastically thin. Honestly it's a miracle that they even got as far as they did
Russian morale depended on organisation and was literally unbreakable.
It was worst before the beginning of war, because forces were surrounded (and that IS very bad for morale), and they weren't even mobilized and deployed properly before they were overrun.
The battle for Moscow was a battle on the outskirts of Moscow. Even if it would be lost, the city itself would hold for years.
He was obsessed with stalingrad considering it a major propaganda asset due to the city being named after his rival Stalin that and the oil fields surrounding the city
Attacking Finland was stalins ploy of genociding hundreds of thousands of ill-prepared ukrainians who were told to except very little resistance
Germanic autism.
Order no 270 stavka
The Russians hated communism, many surrendered after the operation red beard, in Ukrainians the Germans were received as their saviors
All the people joined him hitler, look for the history of the Cossacks
Napoleon took Moscow. German leaders didn't want a repeat
>Russian morale depended on organisation and was literally unbreakable.
the war was quite litraly called the great patriotic war since the natsocs also brutalized the native populations partizans and risistance fighters where common.
the soviets would never capitulate.
why didn't the fuckin Japs invade from the east?
Incorrect. All the manufactured equipment from the factories east of the Urals came through Moscow to be dispersed to the front. The Germans didn't even need to fully capture Moscow, just encircle it and cut the rail lines.
at least they are asking questions, most people wouldn't give a shit.
War isn't a video game. Capturing the capital doesn't magically capitulate the nation.
could of had a thousand year Reich if they helped eachother
>the soviets would never capitulate
Like it's been said above, it would drop soviet morale
Finland was on the defensive in the most favourable conditions possible. Also their forces didn't stop the army. The Soviet Union had no military obstacle preventing them from overrunning it, but a political one: it would result in a severe mistrust and consequences with all world powers.
bro ived played axis and allies, trust me it does.
Was Stalin a fascist? He killed all the Bolsheviks in the purge. Many leftists see him as a fascist.
Because Soviets stopped them, what kinda of a question is that?
Man there is literally nothing more badass than being a small nation and telling the huge empire of evil to fuck themselves after they demanded stuff from you and after they sent their zerg troops slaughtering millions of them.
That's literally the opposite of France.
Focus on Strike South doctrine. The Army got the scraps.
>why didn't the fuckin Japs invade from the east?
machuihara was as far as they could go there supply lines where severly stretched and as the amerifats froze theire assets things like oil became rare.
also keep in mind th siberian forces would also be there to defend theire flanks.
You are mentally challenged.
OP is asking for specific reasons
>Russian morale unbreakable
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
The Russians were pansies, more Russian soldiers died in stanlingrad than German soldiers, stanlin did not care about the number of soldiers who died if that meant that he would remain in power, he would borrow from the United States, he would loan him billions of dollars And that stopped him later
Literally the soldiers were forced to fight or they would be sent to the gulags and would violate their wives
> Order no 270 stavka
They tried you fucking idiots. Doesn't it occur to you that the Soviet Union put millions of soldiers to defend Moscow 24/7?
The Finns fought valiantly, but the Soviets won every war with them and gotten everything that they demanded and more. Finland was a semi puppet of the Soviet Union after the war too.
Italy delayed the fucking invasion. 2 month that mattered
I love Finland for slaughtering Russian scum en masse.
This is actually a possibility since the soldiers were given summer clothes while they would fight in fucking finland during winter.
What kind of idiot does that?
>the only thing that stopped the germans was the amount of soldiers
Cuck leaf triggered lol
>what is invading Russia in June
>what is winter in Moscow
>winter in Moscow without winter clothes
>what is T-34 and KV-1
>Because they didn't have the strength to take on Moscow by that time, you're wrong. Also taking Moscow wouldn't have done anything, the Russians would just bury deeper into Siberia.
wrong.
practically the entire rail transportation network ran through moscow. taking that out would have dealt a severe blow to the russian supply routes
...
>The Russians were pansies, more Russian soldiers died in stanlingrad than German soldiers, stanlin did not care about the number of soldiers who died if that meant that he would remain in power, he would borrow from the United States, he would loan him billions of dollars And that stopped him later
did you forget the 6 german army was comletely destroyed?
only 6000 men survived.
the soviets literaly performed a pincer movement on the krauts surounding them in stalingrad.
if hitler wasnt sucha moron he could have retreated and saved his army the massive casualties.
Not just that but the fact that the Soviets had thousands of trenches and very elaborate defenses. I mean think about it for a second before posting shit. If you were Stalin and Hitler declared war on you, what would be some of the first things you'd do? If you have an IQ of at least 80 you'd be able to conclude setting up defenses like trenches, bunkers and mines around your capital would be one of them.
They completely embarrassed you and the USSR wouldn't survive the 20th century. GG
Yep, T-34 was the best tank at that moment and Katyusha rocket launcher was the best artillery.
Because Hitler was a retard and this was just one in a laundry list of dumb as fuck decisions he made that cost him the war. Every good decision he was given credit for at the beginning we now know was actually him taking credit for the ideas of his generals.
You fags can pretend otherwise but Hitler wss notoriois for ignoring his advisors. He was as bad at war as he was good at economics. His policy of fighting to the last man meant after a defeat his troops could never regroup and fight on. His policy of always using the newest tank amd tank parts meant that tanks on the field couldn't be easily replaced in the field because the parts they needed were no longer being produced in Germany by the time they reached the frontline. His policy of slapping jet engines, best used by fighters, on bombers, all while they were on defense therefore needing fighters and austistically watching his own inner circle to make sure they didn't overturn the decision all contributed to Germany's loss in the war.
>practically the entire rail transportation network ran through moscow. taking that out would have dealt a severe blow to the russian supply routes
inplying the soviets would just STALINGRAD the germans.
the soviets had practically an infinite amount of oil and tanks since their factory's where in the hard to reach caucuses.
You need to read Halder's diaries - they greatly underestimated Soviet resources and stamina.
starving out leningrad was a great choice it would have turned into another meat grinder like Stalingrad had germany chosen to push into the city
Finland sided with the USSR at the end of the war.
Finland is the Italy of the north.
The Nazis had no ability to predict the amount of divisions that the Soviets could raise. They estimated only about 120ish divisions but the Soviets were able to raise close to 400. Also Hitler was stupid for trying to take Stalingrad when it had little advantage to the Axis powers other than sticking it to Stalin.
German casualties, logistical breakdown, arrival of winter, Soviet resistance and arrival of Soviet reserves.
Better question is how did Germans survive the counter-attack that followed.
Or nazis were just cucks and wanted slavic dick in there woman.
Not only are and correct, but Stalin refused to leave the city. if he had gone down the system would have collapsed.
No need. Just put Moscow under siege like Leningrad and keep the railway severed.
Stalingrad is a very important city. Seizing it made perfect sense.
This all day.
>German casualties, logistical breakdown, arrival of winter, Soviet resistance and arrival of Soviet reserves.
dont forget the partizans inukriane and the other countries the captured.
>Better question is how did Germans survive the counter-attack that followed.
how the 6 army survived stalingrad so long was a miricle in it self.
hitler should have retreated but goebells fucked it up by saying he could airdrop supplies wich was one of the biggest mistakes in the war.
woudn work as the germans where already under severe strain and with winter coming the troops where under equiped.
>sieging a city with no walls and two lakes that freeze for 4 months out of the year was a good idea
and that's why Hitler captured and razed Leningrad right?
Especially so in 1941, and the KV series were fucking terrifying. Oh and I forgot to touch on the air war - the red air force was lacking in the early days, but basically the luftwaffe just ended up destroying a shit ton of obsolete shit anyway.
It's like Orcs capturing a Gondorese city: sure, they got the white man's shinies, but at the end of the day they still remain filthy ugly subhumans. Just being a mongoloid mudblood is a fate worse than any military loss. No wonder that these commie animals happily went to get slaughtered as cannon fodder. Living as a subhuman is painful.
>goebels
It was goering
Actually when hitler first invaded the ussr stalin was shocked and dimissed the officers telling him this news as lies because they were friends before that
German High Command decided that it would be more important to seize the oil refineries in the Caucasus Mountains in case the war dragged-on too long.
I don't think you can compare the Germany of then to the Germany of today.
Today's Germany is composed of the leftover DNA that used to run down the cracks of their Fraulein's asses.
>It was goering
oh yeah i mistyped.
"friends" more like an a nap alliance.
6th Army couldn't really retreat that easily. As soon as they were encircled it was over, they would be fucked raw.
But of course at least some elements might've escaped instead of being annihilated.
Holy fuck the cringe, stop posting.
Yeah because all German male population died in WW2 and only the best were sent to front, are you people retarded?
>6th Army couldn't really retreat that easily. As soon as they were encircled it was over, they would be fucked raw.
>But of course at least some elements might've escaped instead of being annihilated.
still he could have saved thousands of troops and equipment more.
a soon as hitler ordered to stay and airdrop supplie the 6 army was turbofucked.
edgelord
I bet you just drown in pussy when you show up to the party
No, stupid LARPer. In the 1918, the Finnish army attacked Russian Karelia and Kola. Literally noone was defending them, except some militia and partisans. They still lost. Know why? Because attacking in these lands is fucking impossible. It is swamps. It is Arctic. It is forests. It is narrow passes. The worst of all worlds.
Equipment? I doubt it. Notice how much in depth did Soviets advance.
Reserves were stretched thin at the Eastern Front, best divisions weakened, always the risk of a Western Allied invasion, war in Africa seemed more important for half a year or so, and Moscow was only an object of prestige. Hitler wanted to take out the resources of the Soviets to the south, like the oil of Baku.
But he's right these threads are full of people who act like they teach strategy on West Point without understanding the fucking basics of warfare.
>it wuz totally like when orcs attacked gondor lmaoXDDD
They weren't in the Eastern block though. They were free to be capitalist. So yes they totally embarrassed you.
I wonder why the Soviets allowed it to be capitalist. It was probably the place where the party leaders got their Western products and luxury stuff from.
Because Hitler is a fucking retard split his 3 army groups. Then when things slowed down he committed two of them south for oil, and left the north group to go to leningrad to rot.
They tried dude, learn the course of the war homo
wew i wonder what would have happened if goering did not fuck up and persuaded hitler from retreating the 6 army all those troops the moral blow to the krauts would have not been so severe.
"arm chiar generals" or better stormniggers LARPing as tacticians.
>peru
lmao wtf is peru? mexico of mexico?
>american education
they were having withdrawals from running out of meth, so they were paranoid as fuck
they began shooting into the night blindly in fear, and when the Russians turned up the next day, they had no ammo left
It's just a discussion between random anons. Jesus Christ have you never talked casually in your life without LARPing like you're some kind of war general because you logged 6000 hours into HOI?
That's why they come inside these threads idiot. To get a better understanding of tactics and history.
Just stop being cunts and spread your knowledge to enlighten the ignorant.
CORRECT
kys kike
6th Army is still destroyed as a fighting force, but at least more people escape. Material is more easily replaceable than trained men.
But Hitler was convinced air-supply would work because previously at Demyansk pocket it was done successfully.
However by the time of Uranus Soviet air force unfucked itself a bit and there were far more troops to supply.
Just to state, contrary to beliefs of some idiots here, Hitler was not retarded and did in fact know few things about warfare, and German generals weren't retards either.
In reality Barbarossa was a gamble, Germany simply wasn't prepared for a long conflict. Gamble that worked in France after all. After it failed, it was literally trying to catch-up.
Also contrary to belief of stromniggers here, Nazi government was quite ineffective in many ways.
Germany won't be German by the end of the centrury, so uh, yeah.
They shot their wadd and ultimately lost big. Their future will be Turkish.
You don't seem to have much understanding of what Bismark accomplished and what was lost.
Whether or not you think the future multinational Islamic state will be an improvement, there's little doubt that the Nazis and the old German Hohenzollerns and Junkers were BTFO by the two world wars in the 20th century.
The remnant Germans seem to be quite content letting their past culture fade away.
>They a
>allot
Thanks for the headache from trying to read your shit.
1. Finland was defending.
2. Finns could handle the winter because they also had been living with it for centuries.
It would be better to ask >>/k/
This. It's a cold as fuck he'll hole and when it finally warms up you know what it turns into? A sea of mud up to your waist, no one is attacking that shit successfully.
I'm not a general, but I am someone who is interested in subject and I took some time out of my life to learn more.
And of course we should discuss, but point of discussion is to exchange ideas, information, and learn.
People I'm talking about don't come to learn, they act like fucking retards and call you names when they can't provide an argument, because they are just interested in pushing their story. What's the fucking point of acting like that on Hawaiian surfing forum? Those people are retarded.
That guy is quite right, unfortunately.
Looking at Slav countries is like looking at our past. Tall, strong white men everywhere. The only strong and tall here are immigrants or guys in the military/police.