What will happen when America's welfare state collapses?

What will happen when America's welfare state collapses?

There's no way in hell the skyrocketing cost of social security, welfare and healthcare can be sustained in the next 10 years

Other urls found in this thread:

advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/08/27/the-secret-of-salines-cost-why-a-1-bag-can-cost-700
cbo.gov/publication/51841)
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Category 5 chimp out

It will happen.
We're also going to have a sovereign debt crisis.
It all inter related and it is a cycle.
pic related

your chart doesnt account for inflation or growth in the size of the economy or income or GDP.

As a percentage of income what amount is being spent on welfare and is it increasing or decreasing?

massive if substantiated

>in 2011 inflation adjusted dollars

America is the only country that can freely print money without any bad consequences.

Still doesn't consider it as a percentage of the total income or factor in the GDP.

Also, this might partially also be because you're paying 100 bucks for shit that literally costs like 2 dollars to make.

bump.
The collapse is already happening, it's starting at the state level.
Look at Illinois, they are taking 100% of state income to pay state employee pensions.
Governments NEVER pay off their debts.

When black people claim they deserve reparations, show them this graph.

this is what happens when you let corporations run shit

normally it'd be easy to just put price controls on the health system like every other civilized country, but the people here are nuts

90% of republicans are OK with mass surveillance and torture, but imposing price controls on government-funded healthcare is literally the end of freedom

Basically greedy fucks are paid by the hospitals and drug makers to be retards and not deal with it, while their propaganda has shamefully persuaded 40%+ of the electorate.

Of course most of those 40% freak out if you try to put your government hands on their medicare, so you have a typical self-blocking situation.

tl;dr 'murricans have turned into a bunch of fucking retards

Classcucks get as classcucks deserve. Enjoy your hyperinflation, soon.

Have you seen the size of our deficits?

Healthcare alone will only double in cost soon and will make up more than half of our tax revenue. Social security will surge once boomers start retiring. Illinois is on the brink of bankruptcy because they have billions of dollars of unpaid pensions

It doesn't seem as terrifying if you see it as a percentage of GDP which is a more realistic measure.

Chart is from Armstrong Economics.
Martin Armstrong has never been wrong, I should say his computer program has not been wrong.
That is a chart of human behavior, happens every 85 years.
Not the first time we've gone through this.
Prepare, and remember the big money is made at the bottom.

Like I said, you're being charged a fuckton more.

Pic related. With massive overheads like these what else do you expect?

>just put price controls on the health system like every other civilized country
like Venezuela?

Here's the measure of healthcare spending in GDP

niggers chimp out when a criminal is arrested how do you think they will act when the jews shut off the free money tap

Extreme examples don't really serve any purpose.

Do you want religion to play a part in day to day life?

Yep, on your way to Afghanistan status.

I don't even know what you're trying to say, but you seem like a retard.

come on bro, demanon said you're not taking into account GDP growth and you're just shouting "MUH BIG NUMBERZZ" in response

you're not going to earn your KochBucks at this rate

England, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Japan, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, fuck even Thailand, also Spain, Sweden, Denmark, literally everyone else in the civilized world. Literally. Everyone. Else. In. The. Civilized. World.

Stop being intentionally thick, just because you like the feel. This country needs fewer faggot snowflake memers like you who think it's ok to be a moron because you're "following your bliss".

If you destroy the health insurance industry, then the costs will be cut in half, eventually.

>Illinois is on the brink of bankruptcy
Wrong.
Illinois is currently bankrupt.
They have stopped all work on roads, bridges and such.
100% of state income from taxes going to support state pensions now.
Expect taxes to go up there.

>What will happen when America's welfare state collapses?

the dark ages of our time will begin, in a few hundred years time perhaps new societies will emerge

Those countries are not trying to be the world policeman either.
They are not fielding 20 aircraft carriers.
Pick one or the other, biggest military in the world, or health care for your people.
Can't have both, look at our debt.
this won't end well.

you do realize there are other countries, yes? plenty of superpowers have collapsed in the past.

This is what happens when you give free money to poor people. You just get more of them, they vote for more free shit, and the cycle continues until you end up with something like Venezuela. This all started right after we let women vote, IMHO that was the biggest mistake in history.

Thats the amount the person pays. The spaniard pays 120k from the government on top of that.

How stupid do you have to be to actually want the gov to take care of you?

Race war, ethnic cleansing
1st kikes
2nd niggers
3rd leftist/feminists
4th spics

>GDP growth

You mean the Fed creating new money. It's not real.

nigger
nigger

Socialism ALWAYS fails.
And the US has been a Socialist country since "The New Deal".

OK, now you're including our private system too. Good job proving this has been a problem since long before obamacare

>i can't into numbers
our military is 6% of GDP, our healthcare system is 18%

every other country (except Switzerland last I looked) manages to spend less than 12% of GDP on healthcare

That means, and listen to this closely you fucking cuck, if we could import any of these european healthcare systems and just replace our own, the amount of money we'd save would be enough to pay for the entire military.

This is why this healthcare shit is so crazy. If our shitty system actually saved money that'd be one thing, but it's WAY more expensive than any other system, to the point that we could literally pay for the entire military with the savings of switching to a different system.

And 12% is on the high end, there are countries like Japan and England that get their healthcare spending down to 9 or 10% of GDP.

Try to understand numbers you goddamn cuck. Please, for this sake of this country, learn to understand numbers or just fucking hang yourself.

It is well know that you encourage things you subsidize, and you discourage things that you tax. Therefore, to discourage poverty, we should tax it.

which western country's welfare system will collapse first?

Oh come of it, you're being charged 700 bucks for shit that literally costs a dollar to produce

advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/08/27/the-secret-of-salines-cost-why-a-1-bag-can-cost-700


>Even though most of the patients received IVs from the same distributor, Bernstein writes that some of the bills varied significantly, even for patients in the same hospital, and included markups of "100 to 200 times the manufacturer's price, not counting separate charges for" administration.


This is far from unique, a ton of shit is being sold at a 100,000 to 200,000 percent markup

pop quiz faglord, what's the difference between "nominal gdp" and "real gdp"?

please be able to answer this or austrian "economics" will cease to exist forever and your family will eulogize you as a faglord for 2 minutes before scurrying away from your grave in shame at breeding a faggot faglord golbug niggercuck

>welfare state collapse
This is a meme.

The USA is far outgrowing its obligations over time. That is the point of constant light inflation, btw. Most of these figures assume there will be no changes ever to demographics, but we all know that isn't true.

The most likely thing is it getting maybe slightly close to being unsustainable, but that assumes ZERO increases in technology, which is fucking absurd. Efficiency is only increasing over time for nearly everything. If anything, the welfare state is going to be too small if we don't keep matching it with our growth cycles.

How stupid do you have to be with not only being ripped off but actively fighting for the right of people to continue ripping you off?

I don't understand why you keep saying government should step in and fix a problem caused by government regulations.

And what the fuck is the government going to do about ? They literally voted themselves tons of money while the economy was great, and then when the economy isn't so great, they're completely unwilling to give up the pensions they already voted themselves.

How to make it stop?!

Please answer, faggot, what is the difference between a red herring and a non-red herring. You want to quibble about faggot differences when there's a giant elephant in the room about to fuck you in the ass. Get fucked, and die from a perforated colon.

What the hell are you going on about?

confirmed for not reading the article

also
>government shouldn't make sure drugs and medial supplies are safe
yeah run for election on that platform retard. Protip: just because everyone thinks you're a retard doesn't mean you are, but it does mean you should double-check your shit

Anti trust and anti monopoly laws exist for a reason.

Besides the first step is for y'all to even accept there's a problem.

repeat after me, shit being sold for hundreds of times the cost of production makes stuff expensive.

Like, how is that not obvious? healthcare in America is basically like how luxury brands sell you clothes for thousands of dollars that literally costs 2 dollars to make.

do you even know how they calculate GDP?

...obviously not. It will be such a sad funeral. Nobody deserves to give birth to a faglord.

Do you even know how we're going to pay off $60 Trillion in debt? No? Get fucked, faggot.

Now question: How well off would anyone be if they could get themselves debt free or as close to debt free as possible when the welfare state or debt crisis occurs?

I'm planning on working two jobs to pay off my (((credit cards)))/(((medical bills))). Then I'd just have my (((student loans))) to worry about.

It's scary how much being free from these kike contraptions is consuming my mind anymore. I just want to not feel like there's a financial noose around my neck all the time keeping me from a respectable living standard.

We are 20 trillion in debt.
It can't, and won't go on forever, and when it comes down it's going to be ugly.
History repeats.
>i can't into history

>countries like Japan and England that get their healthcare spending down to 9 or 10% of GDP.
We mostly pay for their defense.
And you have NO say on what type of health care you get.
>who is Charlie Gard.
what kind of idiot wants the fed gov to "take care" of them>
>who is Charlie Gard.

>Anti trust and anti monopoly laws exist for a reason.
Which one of these comes into play when the FDA approves a fucking benadryl variant and grants the pharm company an exclusivity patent?

The increases in GDP aren't because the fed waved a wand

the GDP merely represents the combined value of the goods and services produced in your economy.

To put it simply if you have MORE shit, and/or BETTER shit,your shit is worth more ergo the GDP rises.

Lets pretend we go 100 years back. and take the value of the GDP as X.

X represents the combined value of all the shit you have.

now lets say we move forward in time. You add a ton of shit and discoveries, from nuclear power to air travel to space travel to computers to the internet to motion picture to a bunch of other things.

Does it make sense for the combined value of all this shit to also be represented by the same amount?

Did it not occur to you that every form of welfare is a price control already? You're controlling the price of goods down by subsidizing. And somehow the cost keeps going up, I wonder how..

It is essentially a healthcare problem. American healthcare is just too damn expensive. If a poor person gets sick, either batch him up for 50 bucks or so... or let him die. No reason to spend 200k on chemo etc. for some poor fellow. I am not kidding here, why should society pay for the chemo therapy and surgery of a chain smoking unemployed Hispanic?

Was it around 1962-4 that some Jew in U.S government signed a free movement bill, thus allowing us to be swarmed by Niggers/taco niggers?

Well, I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year.

Yeah, which is why they decided to include "intangibles" in the GDP calculation a couple of years ago. Economic data has a lot of fraudulent shit in it these days.

There will be a violent war and the US will Balkanize.

this.
Gov stumbles form one crisis they created to the next.
Ron Paul was right.

you're jumping from one topic to another issue.

neither of those come into play. Thats a separate issue.

Is it really that complicated? When a bunch of people who sell shit you literally need to live get together and decide collectively to fuck people over by charging insane prices for their product you have a bad situation?

All regulation isn't good and not all regulation is bad.

You need to evaluate each individually and see if its contributing to this problem.

Policies telling a monopoly the most profits they can declare before hiding the rest by shifting it into other assets isn't "fixing" health care. You know why premiums went up after Negrocare limited profits to a percentage of the money they collect? It's called maths. (Of course liberals introduced Common Core to stop people from doing maths, too. Coincidentally.)

If you want prices to go down you introduce competition into the system, but that would require deregulation that 100% of liberals are against... because you can't profit off something Jews don't control.

Are those countries healthcare actually better? I cant imagine they are

more than likely.
sad.

My rent will go up by like $50 next year when my lease is up. Hell it went up $25 (about 3% for (((inflation)))) while my salary went down of course. This time they're raising property taxes a good bit and state income taxes by a percentage point or two.

Hopefully they'll cut my health care obligation so that expense can offset

I wonder if you jump to this level of exaggerated idiocy in every aspect of your life.

price control means being like Venezuela, having laws means like being like North Korea, having religion means you're going to be like Afghanistan.

Genius level thinking mate.

I hear they wear t shirts in venezuela too, clearly that means we should go around topless right?

to be fair, intangibles are a thing tho, I mean hell a lot of trumps wealth comes from the intangible brand value of his name, no?

I know ;_;

Actually I do. I'm not sure how much you understand about government finances, so I'll summarize a bit first.

Government debt is sold as treasury bills, bonds and notes, which mature to a known face value at a known time, so the interest rate is set at auction, where the debt is sold at a discounted value such that adding in the interest over the term gives the face value of the note.

So we know exactly how much the government owes and when. This amount goes onto the federal budget as "debt servicing", and you're right that it is a growing part of the budget and something to be concerned about.

The $60T you mentioned is wrong, that includes all debt according to the debt clock people, you probably mean the $20T that is the actual national debt.

But while the debt clock breaks the numbers down "per person", national debt doesn't actually need to be paid at any given time, it can be re-upped by being paid for by more deficit spending. Moreover, mild inflation (2% target) and GDP growth both shrink the real burden of that debt over time.

Of course, over time we want tax revenues to be enough to pay down the overall level of indebtedness, and it's important that we keep debt levels from getting out of hand. Currently the CBO (cbo.gov/publication/51841) is projecting that net interest payments will rise from 1.4% to 3% of GDP over the next 30 years, which is why it's important that we find ways to control healthcare costs and raise taxes on those who can afford it.

Realistically we may have another financial crash or war or something that calls for deficit spending, and at that time it will want to have the debt under control. This is how we've run the country successfully since the Civil War and just because Dick Cheney thinks deficit don't matter doesn't mean we should test his theory.

>im gong to ignor evrything evryone says and repet ting that sound good that I like
>I lik ting that sound good
>gubmint issa prollem
>gubmint issa prollem
>aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

It's mainly medical care, and that's because boomers are hitting an age where they develop more medical issues and depend more on their welfare spending. Once they die off things will be a bit better, but still unsustainable I'd think

Ironically, this is probably what led to the ridiculous increases in medical fees. Whatever they don't see from the insurance provider or the patient turns into right offs that they can use to get their profitability down.

It's all fucking kike tricks.

>price control means being like Venezuela
yes, pretty much.
>having laws means like being like North Korea.
On a related note.
Our federal prosecutors have a +90% conviction rate.
Nazi Germany's was 80%.
Makes you think.
>having religion means you're going to be like Afghanistan.
Not a comparative argument.
There is NO religious freedom in Afghanistan.

>this is what Russians actually believe
the only violent war is going to be the violence of telling dittoheads and goldbugs to shut the fuck up and let the adults run the country

c.f. McCain's speech. It's already beginning.

I addressed a lot of that in another post
>And you have NO say on what type of health care you get.
this is false. Also having a government bureaucrat say no to some experimental treatment for some doomed mutant child is much less bad than having insurance companies refusing to cover treatable illnesses for millions of people because "muh preexisting conditions". But the amount of money we're wasting on healthcare we could afford to help both, and have a huge military. Remember, the British literally spend half as much on healthcare as we do. You can't bitch about healthcare costs then bitch when some rare disease isn't getting expensive experimental treatment.

Moreover you totally ignored my point about spending and costs of healthcare vs costs of the military. Did you not understand what I was saying? You're just repeating yourself and showing no comprehension.

I guess you're in the "ditto zone" where you just repeat your memes and fail to assimilate new information. Sad!

And when very few, or no one shows up to buy said debt?
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE PAID OFF, OR EVEN PAID DOWN OUR DEBT?
That's right....never.
Governments never pay their bills.

Okay you're a stupid troll.
You might wanna see the image on the front page about logical fallacies See under slippery slope.

>Hey, what if uh..we don't sell life saving medication for like hundreds of times its manufacturing cost?

>hurr durr nooo society will collapse people will die the economy will collapse people will riot the end of the world will happen!!!@!11111

>Our federal prosecutors have a +90% conviction rate.
Nazi Germany's was 80%.
Makes you think.

you know what nazi germany had? pants man.

you know what we also have? pants.

Makes you think

>Not a comparative argument.


Nope. Afghanistan had religion and it got fucked.

So if we have religion we get fucked too.

>There is NO religious freedom in Afghanistan.


I'm not talking about religious freedom kid, just religion

Hey, I'm all for order and government.
Just maybe not as big as what we have going on.

Well they cover everyone and have better life expectancy than us.

There's really no evidence the US system is better, but stupid corporate douchebags think it must be because we deny it to poor people. If it's exclusive, it must be better, right?

But even controlling for access and health conditions, we don't have any better life expectancy or outcomes. Of course this information tends to come from jew liars with socialist agendas like the WHO, so who knows.

But Trump seemed to think the Scottish health system was good, so there ya go.

Advances in technology, within this time period, are wild cards that frustrate the ability of anybody to use charts recording trends from time periods with less leaps in technology.

Homeless people have smart phones. If you've ever been homeless, a smart phone is one of the most humanitarian things invented. It relieves the vast deserts of boredom that exist for somebody with little money.

Not to mention that debts don't matter until the petrodollar collapses. If the world wants energy, they must pay in dollar.

>And when very few, or no one shows up to buy said debt?
That's why it's important that we raise taxes and control healthcare spending.

>WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE PAID OFF, OR EVEN PAID DOWN OUR DEBT?
>That's right....never.
Actually after WWII, also after the Civil War. Treasuries are considered the safest investment in the world for a reason. They're literally the basic money of the financial system, it's fundamental asset.

But it's cute seeing how much misinformation you paultards are indoctrinated with.

Everyone in this thread is retarded

Of course the economy will collapse and war will result. It's simple demographics. GDP cannot grow when the population is not increasing. BesIdes, using a percentage of GDP is only a comparative metric, you have to institute a tax in order to liquidate GDP, which also slows growth in the process.

And price controls in healthcare is an insane idea. Just make healthcare insurance companies required to be mutual and illegal to be publicly traded and compete nationwide, problem solved. The ACA already fucked up our system enough.

If people are obese we should have a fat tax, or euthanize after a certain point.

I'm moving across the border when my lease is up in Chicago. Indiana has super low taxes and it's 100% white basically except for a few niggertowns on the border.

>McCain's speech
You must be young and/or still locked in the left/right, Dem/Repub paradigm.
It took BOTH parties to get us where we are today.
War, debt, welfare/police state.
No gov should have the power of life or death over a child like that.
It's just a sick power trip of the English bureaucrats.
>my point about spending and costs of healthcare vs costs of the military.
Police the world, or health care for our citizens....pick one, can't have both, look at our debt.

Hop off a bridge

>It took BOTH parties to get us where we are today.
Well the real, big problem is the corporations owning the political system, so I guess you're right there.

But the rest of your post is feel-statements with basically no connection to reality.
>bureaucrats bad
>muh debt!!1!
ok kid

>people are arming themselves and stockpiling ammo
>nearly all welfare fucks are spics and niggers
>wonder what will happen

Wrong. A few (((Republicans))) broke ranks and they got enough votes to override Rauners veto and pass a new budget with an income tax hike and no cuts to dem programs

Raise taxes? Even more? High taxes are economy killers.
Ahhh...no. We still carry debt from WWII.
Plenty of charts showing that.

Lower property taxes mean lower rents.
Smart move bro.

>High taxes are economy killers.
nice religion

>We still carry debt from WWII.
we still carry debt from 183whatever after Jackson left, it's never zero nor should it be given the importance of treasuries to the financial system. But we obviously paid it way down, just like we should be doing now.

What are you arguing for, anyway? Well, have fun with it.

Yes, taxes will go up, and that will kill the state economy.
Doesn't matter what they do, it's a death spiral now for the state of Illinois.

Too many bureaucrats is a "bad thing" for sure.
Too much debt is a "bad thing", for sure.
History say so, not me.

>We land of the free
>We don't have public healthcare yo
>No single payer aright?
>That be socialism
>That be euroshit

Meanwhile...

>459 bilions a year on healthcare
>more than a billion per person spent every year on "non public healthcare"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>There's no way in hell the skyrocketing cost of social security, welfare and healthcare can be sustained in the next 10 years
but the military spending can be sustained despite it being multiple times higher? Fuck off

>nice religion
LOL, I thought the left liked science... I guess not.

>And price controls in healthcare is an insane idea. Just make healthcare insurance companies required to be mutual and illegal to be publicly traded and compete nationwide

So if a hospital charges you 500 bucks for something that actually costs a buck to make how is doing what you describe going to prevent that?

If the people who manufacture and sell Saline sell it for 700 dollars even though it only costs a dollar to make how will preventing insurance companies from being publicly traded prevent that?

Social Security and Medicare higher than defense spending tho

A corrupt, psychic policeman that constantly abuses power and breaks laws. This is Sup Forums. We know US just wants to have a unipolar world, the center that controls world's resources, and has been actively pursuing this goal after USSR's demise.

>Derp Derp

Because they won't be ruthlessly after profit if mutual dumbass

Wait *smack lips*, you telling me human ailments won't affect the fat obese kids of this generation...and eventually cost a lot when they're 50

God damned we're fucked with these future voters...just stay home every election user

This map correlates to the increase in non whites in US. 1950s America was 90% white and had no welfare.

Coincidence? Maybe