One thing that always annoys me about the Holocaust is, that every time I try to talk someone irl about the things that might debunk the Holocaust, they find a really good argument against it with a source. While almost no one here can give any good arguments or sources to them. The only thing I managed to find out is, that Hitler might not have known about the extermination of the Jews in the Death Camps. I might not be redpilled enough, but I was thinking about writing my VWA (Vor Wissenschaftliche Arbeit) about a topic relating to this. Since I'm not allowed to deny it, or deny Hitler knowing about it, my topic will most likely be "Warum es nochimmer Argumente gegen den Holocaust gibt" / "Why there are arguments, that the Holocaust never happened"
Last time I talked to an intellectual about this topic his argument was "even Himmler said that they were killing jews" and provided me with a link of Himmlers speech.
Another time someone debunked my claims (coming from most of these pictures you use to 'redpill" people) with good arguments against it + telling me that people like you, never give good sources, and if you do it's a weird source that goes to another source and so on.
I'm convinced that the Holocaust happened, so I guess: Try to redpill me
(Also to mention: I thought Hitler was a good guy)
>Allies coming hard at Normandy >barely ~10% of axis casualties >thinking they won the war
USA barely did anything in WW2. Except of supplying both sides. Fucking jewmericans.
John Walker
I think you might have answered the wrong thread, but thanks for bumping
Jackson Collins
I don't think anyone denies that mass murder was happening at the hands of the Nazis. It's the scale and methods that are debated. Also I think Himmler had his own vision of mass ethnic cleansing by his SS to which Hitler turned a blind eye.
Xavier Davis
just watch the greatest story never told. come back to this thread in 7 hours.
Ayden Hernandez
>I don't think anyone denies that mass murder was happening
But because of pictures like these I get the feeling that some people are trying to debunk it? If that's not the case then redpill me on Hitler please
Ayden Phillips
I've already watched it, that's why I think Hitler was a really nice guy (for this time). Also hate Churchill now. But did they even mention the KZ?
Jayden Barnes
The holocaust most definitely happened. Its just that the number of deaths has been inflated. Not that it matters really. Its been 80 years and its history by now, it should not play any role in making policy and certainly its not a valid point in any argument regarding jews/israel/whatever.
Its history
Oliver Mitchell
I don't think they used the camps for extermination. The mass murder was basically rounding up the 50 Jews in some village, making them dig a long ditch, then lining them all up in front of it and shooting them all in the head. Then forcing some other town folk to bury them. Most of this was in eastern Europe. They were far more indiscriminate and brutal in the east.
Nathaniel Moore
Same opinion, but I'm more concerned about the arguments with liberals, talking about Hitler. I always try to see him as a strong leader, who literally dindu nuffin wrong, and the *only* arguments the liberals have is "Well he killed 6 million Jews so he's a mass murderer/Worst man in history"
James Richardson
Source??
Angel Williams
There is a mountain of fabricated lies accompanied by fabricated images. I was discussing the hoax with a female friend and I was trying to tell her why I didn't believe in most of what jews like Hillberg claim. I used the burning pits at Auschwitz as an example of something that never happened. This one got her to "call me out" cause she had seen the pictures herself. I said lol ok I wanna see them as well and she told me in a demeaning manner that I could simply google it myself. So I did. Try googling Auschwitz burning pits and you will see some shitty old pictures of some bodies being burned. Of course she doesn't understand that the pics you see on google does not confirm or even adress the same burning pits described in hillbergs collection of lies. The burning pit wasn't 4 meters deep. There wasn't a train system that dumped bodies into the pit. It was a picture of some bodies being burned.... people are retards.
Tyler Baker
I don't have a direct source. This is just based on clips and pictures I have seen and some accounts I have heard. My grandparents were officers in the Soviet army, so they got to see some shit in Ukraine.
Mason Wood
He was a mass murderer. So was Stalin, Karl der Große, Napoleon etc. etc. Hitler most certainly was a brilliant politician and public speaker, and he did good things for Germany. But he was a terrible commander-in-chief and strategist. But that has been the german armies problem since 1871 - brilliant tacticians and officers, but no strategic vision.
Nicholas Parker
It's not just that the numbers were greatly exaggerated. There were no human gas chambers in the camps, and the Nazi government never had a policy of racial genocide against jews. All of that was and still is just propaganda.
>History should be forgotten The very creation of the state of israel and the displacement of the Palestinian people, and the entire racial culture of the US and Europe today is based on an event that did not actually happen. Germans have been conditioned to wish for their own racial and national suicide because of events that did not occur.
Tyler Clark
Fuck off and pay denbts. Germans made you their bitch during WW2 and they're still doing it now.
Christopher Ross
well your first problem is taking holocaust denial literally, no one denies the systematic killing of Jews, all we deny (or rather question) is: >the scale at which it happened I.e muh six gorillion >the methods by which it happened Gas Chambers at aushwitz? Nah mate. Swimming pool which was actually just a cleverly disguised firefighting reservoir occasionally used for brutal mass drownings? Probably not. Skin lampshades and fine mattresses made from Jewess hair? Sounds unlikely. >the mastermind There is literally no evidence Hitler masterminded the holocaust which is why they had to come up with the "orders passed on through spoken word" theory. There is however considerable evidence to suggest Himmler was the mastermind and kept it secret from uncle Adolf.
If you haven't already (I'm sure you have) read/watch David Irving.
John Parker
I never said history should be forgotten. I studied history and I am german. I know of the whole german guilt and its annoying is fuck.
What i tried to convey is that the holocaust is history and not politics. It should not have any bearing on policies and foreign policy in general. It should not guide any decision making at all. Its simply nothing that matters in todays world, or at least it shouldn't.
Chase Jackson
>David Irving
>B-but he was tried and convicted for a bunch of trumped up, bogus, sensationalized charges in a fair and unbaised European court! That means you should ignore everything the man ever said about the holocaust.
Eli Bailey
Nah, they made themselves a bitch. We're just looking out for them. How can you have a prospering state if your politicians and officers are corrupt?
Jack Nguyen
>he was a terrible commander-in-chief and strategist That's where you're wrong kiddo, come back when you read/watched some David Irving.
Gavin Flores
>Its simply nothing that matters in todays world
Israel has extorted billions upon billions upon billions of Euros from the German people as reparations for events that did not actually occur.
Faurisson was sued by the jewish community and brought to court, but he won, unlike what happened with Irving or Zündel. So he would be a much better source to redpill normies.
Sebastian Smith
Thanks, saved. The chosen people are free to say whatever they want, while we get convicted as criminals. David Cole is another jew who exposed this
To my understanding it was also mostly SS units going around rounding up Jews and executing them rather than the wermacht who typically dealt with enemy combatants and partisans.
Parker Baker
Well you convienently left out the >should not matter of my sentence dude.
Buddy, he made terrible strategic decisions. He got lucky with France but thats it
Adam Morales
Axis victory at Normandy, wouldn't of changed the war anyway at that point.
Ayden Torres
How can you have a good source that something DIDN'T happen?
Robert Perez
>He was a mass murderer. So was Stalin, Karl der Große, Napoleon etc. etc. Hitler most certainly was a brilliant politician and public speaker, and he did good things for Germany. But he was a terrible commander-in-chief and strategist. But that has been the german armies problem since 1871 - brilliant tacticians and officers, but no strategic vision. Meth and cocaine will do that to you.
Germans abused meth like crazy.
Jonathan Johnson
I'm only a bit confused at the fact that I've never heard Jews from Konzentrationsläger that had help from.a therapist or Jews that killed themself over the mass murders they've witnessed. Because in our society today, there are so many people who consider or actually do suicide "only" because they witnessed some deaths of friends or enemies in Iraq
>If you haven't already, read/watch David Irving
I was about to order some of his books, does he provide good sources/arguments ? The guy that replied to you did mention not to read his works ?
The numbers were inflated from the beginning. Why would I believe they aren't still?
Connor Wood
>USA barely did anything in WW2. ..In Europe, they more or less single handedly took down Japan.
If Hitler had been warned about Normandy as the landing side, instead of Calais, and he had acted upon that. The Allies might as well have acted upon that and have chosen to invade Calais instead. The only reasonable action he could have taken, was to go for a peace treaty in 1941-42.. When Germany was on the track to victory and the Allies was loosing. A generous peace offer, which the allies could not except would have been the best outcome. Obviously Hitler would probably not have taken that advice..
Kevin Garcia
except* meant refuse..
Wyatt Brooks
>But he was a terrible commander-in-chief and strategist. This is the biggest meme about Hitler along with the jewish slander, ballsack etc. Can you please explain to me what you mean? You're aware that the OKW existed and he didn't do anything that fucked them.
Ryan Ramirez
How did all those millions of Jews end up in the Soviet Union if they were all gassed to death?
James Wood
>as to go for a peace treaty in 1941-42.. Britain refused.
Alexander Jones
Your desperation to find some philosophical and moral loophole to make peace in yourself with this issue is just saddening. It reminds me of talking to a Christian struggling with his waning faith.
It is either true, or it isn't. It matters. There's no "convenient middle ground" for you to justify just forgetting about it and acting like it never meant anything.
Samuel Mitchell
>the holocaust didn't happen Yes it did, but the actual perpetrators were Polish people.
Ian Watson
Just fucking watch some David Irving videos on YouTube, i'm not going to have this argument with you. He is indisputably the most knowledgeable ww2 Hitler historian and he makes the case much better than I could that Hitler was, in fact, a brilliant military tactician.
Levi Murphy
David irving is the shiznitz. He only uses first hand sources and is the only person who had interviewed most of Hitlers closest friends.
Dylan Thompson
That "Himmler speech" you mentioned is purposely mistranslated. He means the extermination of jewish INFLUENCE in Germany, not the extermination of the jewish PEOPLE. There's also the argument that he means deportation (since the same word also translates to "uproot") but that one is less likely. >captcha: Cartagena CHURCHILL
Asher Hughes
THIS IS ALL FUCKING TOTAL BULLSHIT. I dont know how you basement dwelling mouthbreathers live with yourselves...calling black people niggers, calling mexicans spics and now yes even Sup Forums has now reached a new all time low ...... the holocaust didnt happen, and hey as a side not "hitler was OK" you people make me want to puke! He was a monster, a diabolical evil man He was a sadistic murderer of the worst sort. I cannot fathom how anyone could defend this deranged lunatic. He and his brownshirts savagely burnt my grandparents publishing firm to the ground, with the employees still inside! My poor grandparents, Avi and Sara Sphinktorlikur were shipped to the camp Eichenwald to be gassed. They did nothing wrong, they were devoted to thier work, a small childrens modelling magazine, very popular with other jews in Berlin in 1930's. They went to the synagogue every saturday, and always gave money to jewish charities. Only my poor aunt, Jizzabel Shikulgraaber survived, she hid in belgium, almost made it to the end of the war. One fateful day however poor little Jizzabel was playing in fields of wheat, when she saw the panzers coming. they were retreating from allied forces, though she did not know this. She hid in an outhouse near the road, and thus her fate was sealed. For as the tanks and trucks passed, many soldiers would stop to take a dump, and little Jizzabel was buried alive in nazi turds.
I never learned the fate of my poor Bubbe and Avi, but stories that surfaced of Camp Eichenwald were horrifying. It was equipped with some kind of mechanical octopuss rape machine nazis used on jews prior to gassing.
FUCKEN NAZIS
Jayden Walker
The inflated numbers and allegations of industrial murder were basically a method to punish Germany forever for starting (in the official view of the allies) 2 world wars within 50 years. And even after all of that Germany is still an economic powerhouse that's trying to take over Europe via the EU. It's sad how cucked they are now.
Michael Mitchell
wtf I love Sup Forums'sha now
Gavin Clark
Why did the Germans never mention the gassings in their unbreakable enigma codes?
Jayden Baker
Read up on Rudolph Hess and shit my friend. He sacrificed his life trying to get the peace offer known to the english public.
Leo Moore
>Shoddy evidence being aggressively brandished around as ABSOLUTE, OBJECTIVE PROOF THAT EVERYTHING WE'VE EVER BEEN TOLD ABOUT JEWISH SUFFERING IS TRUE AND HOW DARE THESE OUTRAGEOUS INFIDELS QUESTION AND INSULT POOR, JEWISH SUFFERING
The usual
Charles Nguyen
>well your first problem is taking holocaust denial literally, no one denies the systematic killing of Jews
You're pussy footing this. Go to duckduckgo (because google filters results) and search for "why holocaust never happened" or "holohoax". Enjoy the whole community of holocaust denial.
Jace Adams
Also there is much evidence of the speech being faked. Even if it all happened it doesn't excuse Jews using it 80 years later to advance their own and Israel interests and shutting down any ethno-nationalist group. en.metapedia.org/wiki/Posen_speeches
Ryan Powell
>He is indisputably the most knowledgeable ww2 Hitler historian Bit odd since literally everyone seems to dispute that.
Angel Murphy
Himmler's Posen speeches is what turned me as well. I don't believe the number was 6 million and I have some doubts (but not against it either) about gas chambers, but they were most deff killing Jews in the 100.000s, maybe millions.
However, now that I see the massive destruction Jews have had on Europe, I couldn't give less of a fuck. Jews brainwashed us to not be racist. Even in 1924 when Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he talked about how the Jews wanted to mongrelize us with niggers to lower our cultural and political level, so the Jew can dominate.
It sure as hell worked. Fuck Jews.
Caleb Gonzalez
...
Brandon Butler
A peace treaty is never a finite size. You can have unconditional surrendering, where the other part dictate every terms of the agreement, you can have a white peace, essentially a permanent truce without any changes. Like the one in NK and South Korea. He should have provided them with a peace treaty, where Germany stood to have nothing or limited territorial gains. And perhaps made some concessions about militarization of Germany.
Jack Anderson
Btw have you tried the other angle yet? That the Jews weren't just targeted for nothing I mean.
There was the international Jews bringing in the USA against Germany in WW1, the degenracy in Weimar but most importantly them locking down most of the economy by 1933 through their ethno-nepotism and access to international capital. Something was bound to happen, although I think the Germans would have been fine with expulsion and confiscating their stuff.
These things tend to happen with Jews, pogroms are not an act of God.
Isaac Wilson
The guy who replied to me was ironically making the typical leftist arguments against David Irving. He is the best because he gets almost all of his information straight from the archives, he reads only the official documents themselves or talks directly to the people involved or their families. His own story as an historian is actually quite remarkable.
Andrew Reyes
Yep, listening to the voice and the context of the speeches it's highly questionable. Why would Himmler record a classified SS speech? Why does the voice sound so radically different from Himmler elsewhere? Either way it's really easy to debunk that speech as a non-argument.
Parker Ward
I think it's even more ridiculous that your believe that they used a rape machine on jews prior to gassing them. Did they get their free ride on the holocoaster too?
You don't think the allies, especially Soviets, would lie about what they found to tarnish Germany and punish them?
Daniel Sullivan
Why would Himmler reveal the homicidal gas chambers in a speech in a town hall, which was being recorded, when the German's never even mentioned it in their unbreakable coded messages and were always supposed to euphemisms (according to mainstream history)?
Jaxon Peterson
beautiful pasta, hope it goes on for awhile you'll need to go back
Hunter Taylor
It doesn't matter. Might makes right and the total war was lost. Only a revanche is left.
Jaxon Cox
>One thing that always annoys me about the Holocaust is, that every time I try to talk someone irl about the things that might debunk the Holocaust, they find a really good argument against it with a source. While almost no one here can give any good arguments or sources to them.
Found the shill. This thread pops up several times every single day with tons of sources, yet you are somehow too stupid to pay attention?
Obvious shill is obvious. Saged, reported and hidden.
Henry Diaz
But only so after he wrote a book challenging the allied narrative of WWII, "coincidentally." Prior to that, he was universally regarded as the singlemost leading WWII historian in Europe.
Charles Long
How did you know? They were forced to ride the holocoaster. You were probably there, as a gaurd. Who the fuck are you? your a fuckin war criminal.
We are going to find you. You will pay. You probably have the lampshade they turned my poor Bubbe into, you FUCKING NAZI BASTARDDDDDDD!!!!!
Daniel Davis
Even in the court room in which they (((proved))) he was a " falsifier of history" they had to admit that his knowledge of ww2 was unparalleled.
Michael Anderson
Lol
Asher Reed
Also considering the forces arrayed against Germany, they had to do everything perfect evry time or lose. Take Barbarossa for example, yes in the end they suffered huge casualties but they wrecked the Red Army 3 times over and occupied their best farming and industrial land and huge population centers. If it weren't for lend lease the Soviets would've been out.
Jordan Morris
This as well as Himmler was known to exaggerate and speak in hyperbole
Camden King
No one who was bothered to seriously look into it.
Jaxon Mitchell
>they more or less single handedly took down Japan.
>Drop the bombs out of feer that Soviets, after blitzkrieging the kwantung army, will take the islands for themselves.
Austin Phillips
He flew to the UK when Germany was in the process of loosing the war.. And to make what? a peace treaty where Germany stood to gain land?
To emphasize the nature of peace treaties. When the US dropped two atomic bombs upon Japan, they had eradicated the Japanesse fleet and had total air superiority. Japan had been pushed back and had been confined to the island of Japan. Why didnt they surrender? because the terms of surrendering where absolute. The Americans wanted an unconditional surrendering, where they could do what they wanted, install democracy, execute whomever they wanted for war crimes, force Japan to cede territories. The US finally agreed to partial-unconditional surrendering. Meaning that no member of the royal family could be charged with war-crimes, and the emperor would remain emperor in a ceremoniel capacity. Btw, a large portion of the general, and those we know commited war crimes where royal family members, cousins and uncles to the emperor. They was never prosecuted.
Ethan Jenkins
Also he actually speaks German iirc, most 'historians' these days don't and rely on secondary sources.
Parker Watson
If it comes down to one speech to prove the holocaust, a speech that doesn't even mention gassings, then there is not much evidence that it happened.
Parker Roberts
Nope. Holocaust is a complete fake. There was no "systematic killing" of anyone at the camps.
Leo Ross
>Try to redpill me
look for the free ebook "dissecting the holocaust" and read that. There is enough to show you that so much stuff they claim is not possible. No matter what sources are cited and where they are coming from, once you literally have to break the laws of physics to achieve the official story, it does not matter anymore if there are official documents are not.
I wouldn't bother with most other stuff people write, the holocaust handbooks say it all.
Oliver Nguyen
USA did handle their entire navy and fought brutal island jungle warfare though.
Were Soviets doing any offensives on Japan at the time?
This is also great. When you break it down, pogroms happen as a general counter reaction to Jews doing their thing, being extremely ethnocentric and nepotistic. There's also another culture clash of European vs Middle Eastern.
So yeah, the camps definitely happened, it was the cold hard logical result of a hostile minority trying to play economic and cultural elite. And of course, people died.
But the 6 million? Gas chambers of Zyklon B when they had tons of WW1 gas left over and hundreds if not thousands of other ways to kill stuff? Colour me skeptical.
Charles Morgan
Irving is a second hand source.
A first hand source would be the nazi documents which David has actually read.
Most opinions on the holohoax come from 3rd hand sources (someone writing about something which someone else wrote about). When they're not blatantly made up that is.
Never forget the holocoaster.
Parker Adams
>I always try to see him as a strong leader, who literally dindu nuffin wrong, and the *only* arguments the liberals have is "Well he killed 6 million Jews so he's a mass murderer/Worst man in history"
How about gambling with the strenght of the German army until he got the country he was elected to protect ruined, occupied and divided?
Luke Davis
>He should have provided them with a peace treaty, where Germany stood to have nothing or limited territorial gains.
That was part of the offerings. Nazi Germany literally goes back to old borders, i.e. giving back poland, france, norway, denmark etc in 1940 and maybe keeping the corridor to east prussia, that's it. If such an offer is denied, than you know that you have to fight till the end.
>And perhaps made some concessions about militarization of Germany. Yeah, that was tried from 1920-1935, i.e. the allies also demilitarize, what they signed for in the treaty of versailles. They never did and thus, in 1935, Hitler said "fuck it, we must re-arm too".
Justin Lopez
>single handedly took down Japan. They threw a nuke on civilianz. Twice.
Camden Baker
I think that the general consensus on Sup Forums is that the massive deaths of Jews did happen, which is easily provable by comparing jewish population in central Europe before WW2 to what it is nowadays. However, the numbers overall are exagerrated. This is supported by the claim that it would be extremely hard to exterminate 6 billion of people and Jews tend to overexaggerate their suffering and have been often caught doing so. Many of those who died, died from diseases or hunger so it's hard to tell whether there was malicious/genocidal intent behind these deaths. There was a shitton of shitskins and Jews collaborating with the nazis. And the whole narration of making soap out of Jews is pure bullshit to make the story even more dramatic. So it's not that deaths didn't happen it's just that the current narration of blue-eyes nahzees killing 6 gorrilion of poor innocent jewish beings is bullshit. It's just a story made up to manipulate the whites and make money from Holocaust Industry™.
Chase Gomez
I did infact think of that alot, but in my eyes it was just false to kill them all. He should've expelled them from German land or Europe in general.
Brayden Barnes
I hate those Mouse eyes. My myself look part jewish, but those little black eyes are disgusting.
This is also great. When you break it down, pogroms happen as a general counter reaction to Jews doing their thing, being extremely ethnocentric and nepotistic. There's also another culture clash of European vs Middle Eastern.
So yeah, the camps definitely happened, it was the cold hard logical result of a hostile minority trying to play economic and cultural elite. And of course, people died.
But the 6 million? Gas chambers of Zyklon B when they had tons of WW1 gas left over and hundreds if not thousands of other ways to kill stuff? Colour me skeptical.
They annihilated the Kwantung army in rapid order and captured Manchuria which was an important backbone of Japanese industry in Operation August Storm. It was probably just as important in getting the Japanese to give up as t he A-bombs.
Charles Walker
>wouldn't of
Bentley Rodriguez
There were systematic killings but if they occurred at any camps I honestly don't know. The Reinhardt camps are usually the ones that fall under suspicion but there's very little evidence about those as they were destroyed completely.
Daniel Bennett
My dear child, you have much to learn.
Xavier Hernandez
>He should've expelled them from German land or Europe in general.
>Havaara Agreement >Evian Conference >Madagascar plan
When the allies remove any possiblity to get the people out of your country, and when every country refuses to take in Jewish refugees even before the war starts, then there is not much you can do... there literally was no place to go because everybody said "fuck you, we won't take any jews".
Kevin James
> Content not available in your country domain I fucking hate these fucking jewish tricks, i have to go through a proxy just to watch something educational about ww2. Disgusting.
Dominic Rogers
>Holocaust is a complete fake. There was no "systematic killing" of anyone at the camps. First argument why the holocaust was real. Motive, Germany had tied a massive amount of manpower in guarding the camps. They perceived the Jews and the others interned in the camps, such as resistant-movement and communist, as their enemies. They had million of enemies in these camps, whom they only kept alive for humanitarian reasons. As their war-fortune changed, they wanted to get rid of these people.. to free up manpower and to limit the threat these people possessed.
Xavier Cooper
Hitler was a subhuman, like any other fucking Kraut.
Isaiah Price
>they happened but i don't know how or where 0/10 made me reply
Logan Bailey
Nigger, I'm not a shill. Not everyone on here wants to destroy your little base.
Ever thought about someone THINKING critical? And asking questions? I'm not here 24/7 so I don't see most of these threads. And to answer my OWN questions, I had to start my OWN thread. Why would a fucking shill say that Hitler was a good guy? That he's going to buy some David Irving books. Not everything in your pathetic life is a conspiracy or whatever. I'm just trying to get my facts straight on a very taboo-ish argument
Adam Butler
>Kikecoaster
Haha! I pissed myself laughing the first time I heard about that. They haven't found any remains of the rails, the car, or the oven, but it's taken as true just because the "witnesses" said so. So much for burden of proof.
Zachary Cruz
That was the plan. They had numerous offerings to expel them for a ransom and confiscation of their goods, however that always fell through. In the end they settled for camps which of course lead to a death count, but mostly due to starvation. Gas chambers are just impractical and almost cartoonishly evil, totally doesn't fit the Prussian model.
Mason Kelly
...
Alexander Myers
>That's where you're wrong kiddo, come back when you read/watched some David Irving.
