What is Sup Forums's opinion on geographical determinism?
What is Sup Forums's opinion on geographical determinism?
Carter King
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Ryan Scott
>DRC
>most natural resources of any country in the world
>poorest country in Africa
>Namibia
>Literally just a barren fucking desert
>richest country in Africa
hmm...
Colton Gomez
It's shit and was proven as shit years ago.
Chase Ward
How so? Raise this topic, i wanna legitimate red pill.
Isaac Gomez
Made sense at first
Then a bunch of faggots proved it was bs.
Now it's bs and looking back at it, I feel like a complete moron for thinking it made sense.
>Inb4 zebra racing
Caleb Wright
...
Nolan Lewis
How was it proven shit?
I'm not being contrarian, I don't think one way or the other yet, I haven't even finished the book, but I'm genuinely curious about the topic
Thomas Cook
>he didn't read the book
Joseph Long
Do you know how rare and difficult that is?
Not only that riding it is near impossible, easier with a chariot tho, yes.
Jordan Williams
Niggers are simply biologically inferior. No matter how many liberal writers whine and whine it won't change the facts.
Matthew Brown
Europe succeeded because the Eurasian Steppes offer the most longitudinally wide tract of land, and thus the largest surface area of arable land on which you can grow homogenous crop populations.
This led to agricultural specialization, which led to technological progress, which led to wars and conquests, which led to more technilogical progress which expoded in a positive feedback loop into the modern world.
What it ignores is the fact that in addition to society being molded by environment, so too were the people. I mean you can support geographical determinism all you want, but you can't ignore massive IQ differences between certain ethnic groups, as well as the heritability of IQ. Western Europeans and East Asians blow everyone else out of the water. It's actually kind of embarrassing when you think about it.
Isaac Fisher
All humans are equal, but geography made some superior to others, which proves that everyone is exactly the same. Because they are so different, due to the environments in which they lived. Derp.
Nicholas Ross
>Do you know how rare and difficult that is?
Yes. 0% difficult.
Oliver Gray
Yeah, so the thing is nigs woulnd't be that good as Whites. I watched a video on this topic from Wendover Productions, and he said that Bangladesh(Ganges valley) would be most perfect for a new start of human kind.
On the other side, Europeans really got lucky by acquiring immunity on certain diseases that killed 90% of Native Americans.
Thomas Russell
Its Bullshit.
>Africans did not have animal husbandry on their continent so that they could tame animals like the Horse for plowing or travel.
Pic related
David Ward
Liberals hate that book though.
Owen Young
can we stop spreading this meme book now its been disproven.
Kayden Cox
How would Jared Diamond explain Australian Aboriginals?
They managed to figure out all the edible 'bush tucker' yet theyre down syndrome intelligence never led them to grow these edible food in a single place.
Funny that Australian Aboriginals followed the same path (arguably worse) as Sub Saharan Africans and they both have about the same IQ levels.
Joseph Ward
Even if both have as many diseases exotic to the other party, an ocean is a pretty effective buffer. It'd still be a Euro win because you can just ship more settlers and soldiers. It only hurts people in the Americas, which is only settlers and the entirety of all native american civilizations.
Africans can stand some pretty wicked diseases, don't see them lording it over everyone else.
Aiden Mitchell
Ahem... "it has its place".
Josiah Green
How is it disproven? ofcourse geography has influence on societies.
You don't have to choose genetics or this, it's just one factor.
Josiah Butler
You forgot to mention the mines - uranium and other - in Namibia.
Ian Davis
society != race
Brody Young
Well, I was pointing out to Native Americans losing war to Whiteys not just because of weapons but on immunologic level. When it comes to nigs..well, nothing but crap.
Brayden Gomez
Uh... nope, there is evidence of cropping before European invasion.
Andrew Gonzalez
You're right it was lucky and made things smoother, but it'd have worked out the same way if they carried diseases exotic to us with a similar impact. Colonies are just larger FOBs, disposable.
Jeremiah Jackson
Peter Zeihan is better for geography/demographics grand theories
Asher Garcia
But we will agree that whites made this their own world by colonizing shit.
Mason Kelly
>this theory is obviously false because it doesn't account for x
>my ideology is true because it accounts for all
>not realizing the first is atleast science because it CAN be disproven, while the second is trash
Nicholas Martin
Even if it *is* true, it's well known that culture, technology, and genetics are all coevolutionary.
Even if we concede the point that white people got geographically lucky ( whatever that really means ), it only furthers the point that we've evolved much faster as a result, in order to work better in societies that cooperate better and live closer together ( as enabled by technology ).
1) Invent proper farming
2) Stricter hierarchy ( contra the Western Hunter Gatherers ) falls out of Indo-European aryan groups as a result of there being food storages and surpluses which need to be managed.
3) Hierarchy means forming more modern-looking version of civilization, and bigger ( read: eugenic ) consequences to acting violent or not cooperating, such as death.
4) Thousands of years of this coevolution between societal law with genetics puts us miles ahead today. For example it's pretty established that the West culled the bottom ~5% of its population every year for some thousand years, can you imagine the effect that has on the genetics of a group ?
tl;dr Whites ( indo europeans ) were the first to form large scale society. Doing that means you need to cooperate better. Cooperating better means you can form bigger societies, etc. We're literally evolved to be high trust and cooperate.
Parker Watson
Extremely speculative and subject to the author's arbitrary beliefs.
"Africa only had zebras that couldn't be tamed!"
Why couldn't Africans travel to another continent and get horses and breed them in Africa?
"Africa is too hot for horses!"
Why couldn't Africans breed horses that tolerate heat well?
The author talks descriptively about things that didn't work out, but don't take into account the normative question of whether a people should have been able to work them out.
Christopher Taylor
yeah maybe cropping their photos, to make them look less fat and retarded
BURN
*does rap hand cross-over thing*
Christopher Sullivan
Yes, expanding and building greater things is generally good to a certain point.
John Lopez
So hard that rando woman could do it. Whites apparently have zebra whispering powers.
Logan King
notpoliticallycorrect.me
westhunt.wordpress.com
westhunt.wordpress.com
>Even if it *is* true, it's well known that culture, technology, and genetics are all coevolutionary.
>Even if we concede the point that white people got geographically lucky ( whatever that really means ), it only furthers the point that we've evolved much faster as a result, in order to work better in societies that cooperate better and live closer together ( as enabled by technology ).
Correct. This point is either omitted by leftists when discussing "Guns, Germs and Steel" or they're just completely ignorant of how evolution works.
This topic is covered in the book "The 10,000 Year Explosion".
Brandon Richardson
...
Ryan Rodriguez
To a point where you advance too much so more workforce is needed while family is crumbling and existing fertility rates are not enough so you have to import nigs and shitskins to your countries in order to maintain (((capitalistic))) growth, but instead finish up with millions of people leeching white working class or?
Ian Morales
Absolutely.
Jonathan Allen
Expect a full review of "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Gregory Cochran in the near future.
westhunt.wordpress.com
Lucas Miller
I said to a certain point but you obviously have something up your ass with that reply.
Juan Campbell
This is /pol. You 've must seen this somewhere in different shape.
Jordan Campbell
>geographic determinism
It isn't. It sets out to explain why Europe ended up colonizing the Americas instead of the other way around. Do you honestly think we have no cultural legacy from Mesopotamia/Egypt/India/China, which was closed off to the Americas and Africa? Europeans were living as ooga-boogas not too long ago. Our brains aren't any different from those of our ancestors 20,000 years ago.
Benjamin Flores
an excuse to not talk about race or iq
Benjamin Wood
Got any figures on the scale and prevelance?
Because everything Ive read on the matter is lefty revisionism.
If the cropping was relevant they would have stepped out of the stone age and atleast started building bigger settlements to go with these "crops".
Lucas Wood
evolution also happens a lot faster than people think. the first blue eyed mutation happened 6,000-10,000 years ago and it's genetically prevalent today. same thing with white skin, white skin genes popped up 6,000-8,000 years ago and they are also prevalent today.
sciencemag.org
also this, dual inheritance theory
Hunter Barnes
Don't let them know whitey caveman was still smarter than all of them even back then.
Ian White
It's utter nonsense. Stop posting Jared Zirconium here.
John Myers
Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, and Chinese were Indo-European?
Levi Gomez
They didn't "get lucky". Plagues, and immunity to plagues, are a natural consequence of animal husbandry. Every major plague started as some domesticated species' version of the common cold, then jumped species to humans going nuts due tot he fundamentally different environment. If Native Americans had domesticated more animals, the resulting plagues in Europe would have been just as bad.
Colton Jones
>you can't ignore massive IQ differences between certain ethnic groups,
That's where you're wrong kiddo
Parker Adams
See:
Daniel Mitchell
Oh bog don't worry the modernity pozz is coming your way too
Gabriel Russell
Other anons have already pointed out the issues, especially in revival works like GGS. But simply put, the theories over-attribute human history to factors that are entirely environmental. Geography is of course a major influence on historical causality. But the issue is that theories like Diamond's neglect human influence itself. No consideration is given to basic political and sociological elements other than the immediately accessible (i.e., information transfer technology). It's an extremely one dimensional understanding of history, and its described like someone wrote it up thinking they know every scientific field because they work in an environmental science lab.
The other issue that is usually cited is poor case methodology. For example, Diamond tries to inappropriately apply a small-scale case study (New Guinea) to the entirety of human history. He leans heavily on an anecdotal understanding, ("I did bird research in New Guinea for several years"), which doesn't help either.
Carter Flores
its like nature vs nurture. The geography of a location and the culture of the civilizations present both work to determine success.
Isaac Martinez
A bunch white people taming zebras into beasts of burden only shows it can be done.
It doesn't explain why black people never tried to do it.
Wyatt Jenkins
If you're interested in the rise and fall of civilization, read Arnold Toynbee's A Study of History abridged version. It's really the definitive work. Full version is 9 volumes and will take the rest of your life to read.
Camden Brown
Fuck off abo
Julian Martin
lol so euros are environmentally superior, sure
Christian Nguyen
All you little alt-right, white-power cunts think it's all about how fucking superior you precious skin color makes you... Dumb as fucking rocks.
Your ancestors where LUCKY. Pure dumb luck.
Shitheads.
Christian Moore
If it makes you feel better I am sorry the white man didn't teach you proper grammar.
Zachary Butler
OH NO! SPELLING-NAZI FUCKHEAD TO THE RESCUE!!!
EAT SHIT.
Dylan Ortiz
Harsh climates cull the weak. All humans were equal once. If you don't have to be smart to survive, being smart isn't necessary and thus is not preserved.
Carson Hall
Race isn't just about skin color you fucking moron.
Dylan Jenkins
>grammar is spelling
You just had to keep going didn't you?
Grayson Long
...
Easton Walker
Zimbabwe
Matthew Cooper
It's the academics clinging onto straws.
I wish I had that reddit thread where someone pointed out blacks have smaller brain sizes, only to get downvoted to hell and someone making a refute about how racist he was. Followed by "rekt" threads. It's literally human anatomy 101 that
Nolan Moore
He claimed domestication is hard and not taming. Why do people keep posting tamed zebras to prove him wrong?
Xavier Scott
the only difference between the two is breeding the animals. what's so hard about that extra step?
Jeremiah Sanchez
jared "ironic pornstar name" diamond is NOT a scientist.
his degree is in GEOGRAPHY, not even a soft science like sociology or anthropology.
motherfucking GEOGRAPHY.
he is qualified to judge one thing, and one thing only:
is this map cartographically accurate?
his hypotheses are shallow, illogical and based on his fundamental misunderstanding of how societies begin, grow and evolve.
he is consumed by white guilt and a fetish for the "Noble Savage" trope from the early 20th century.
his book is shit, his hypotheses are twaddle, and you should feel bad for giving him even a moment's thought
read desmond morris to learn what an anthropologist looks like
Benjamin Rogers
(((jared diamond))) was one of my professor when i was a younger lad. fuck him. he's a little 5'1'' jew hippy idiot. everything he says is gobshite.
that being said geo is yuge. without geography, you are nowhere.
Jonathan Mitchell
>Guns, Germs and Cherrypicking
>muh cargo
>Jared (((Diamond)))
Jack Hall
is it already that time of the month where we discuss this book yet again?
Gavin Jenkins
Yeah, bait threads and LARP threads embodying thebrest of the catalog are SO much better
Lucas Campbell
>everything is affected by geography and environment but oh no, don't you even dare say it, not human intelligence.
He's trying way too hard to not be a biological determinist whereas geo and bio are intertwined and symbiotic.
Dominic Gutierrez
>HUrr Africans are poor because they didn't have Horses or Chickens
Neither did China, Egypt, Europe, but they traded for them and learned to raise them.
Africans are fucking lazy. The Aztecs and Incas had fuck all, but they worked hard.
Colton Green
There are mistakes in G,GaS like the Zebra thing, but that doesn't invalidate the concept as a whole.
The real fallacy is assuming that geography determines cultural and technological achievements, but not genetics.
It affects both and a different live style, made possible by such achievements also affects genetics.
The skills required to be the best in agriculture are quite different to the ones required to be the best hunter-gatherer.
Ryder Turner
>you can't ignore massive IQ differences between certain ethnic groups, as well as the heritability of IQ
Give me a good reason why high IQ isn't the product of success rather than its source
Adam Reed
Jacob Fisher
If geographics were to blame, whites would be worse than Africans
Evan Long
>Neither did China, Egypt, Europe, but they traded for them and learned to raise them
How exactly would you move horses across the Sahara?
Besides its a meme that Africa was never wealthy
en.wikipedia.org
Their ability to expand however was limited by the Sahara and the fact that they lacked domesticable animals and plants (bar sweet potato)
Landon Evans
...
Colton Lewis
>Besides its a meme that Africa was never wealthy
>en.wikipedia.org
How does the existence of African empires prove that claim to be incorrect?
wikiislam.net
Wyatt Ross
Prophet Muhammad pbub also said the devil was a black man and Jesus pbuh was white.
Nicholas Mitchell
Sweet potatoes are native to the Americas, not Africa (there is a relative of the mint plant that is native to Africa with a large edible root that is called a "potato", but it's not).
However, as far as domesticatable plants are concerned Africa is much better off than Europe.
Europe had no cereal grains(the most important type of crop for developing society) at all where as Africa had multiple types, (African rice, sorghum, and millet are all native to Africa)
Europe had few other plants, Only wild mustard grass and its cultivated versions, some berries and a few root vegetables. Africa has many native plants (worldwatch.org
All crops grown in Europe can be and are grown in Africa. There are many African plants that cannot be grown in Europe such as coffee.
Juan Bailey
Its actually pretty funny. One thing that always bothered about the mainstream narrative of everyone being equal was why europeans conquered everyone else, so when I saw the CGP Grey video I was relieved as a nagging worry was gone, but then the left had to attack it because it implied everyone would have been just as evil as the europeans
Cooper Rogers
I'm aware that correlations exist but what can prove them to be anything more than that?
Also I'm no expert but:
>"Therefore, researchers performing studies without racial/ethnic labels should be wary of characterizing difference between genetically defined clusters as genetic in origin, since social, cultural, economic, behavioral, and other environmental factors may result in extreme confounding "
Tang et al. 2004
Doesn't sound like an endorsement of using self-identified race to find IQ differences.
>How does the existence of African empires prove that claim to be incorrect?
Because Africans were clearly wealthy at points in history
Samuel Phillips
ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!
Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.
The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.
Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.
What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?
But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.
They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
Dominic Ortiz
>we would of ruled the white man and the world if only the guns we bought from them with our natural resources made us white too!
Notice how guns, germs, and steel haven't been the important advantage for anyone for 100yrs thanks to white tech and yet shitskins are still shit and bring their shit into your country and never change, just change your country?
Caleb Morris
>Jared Diamond
oy vey
Justin Reed
...
Brandon White
gets me every time
Grayson Collins
>Sweet potatoes are native to the Americas, not Africa
Yams rather
>However, as far as domesticatable plants are concerned Africa is much better off than Europe
Maybe not native but plenty of plants were brought to Europe pretty early on.
I didn't know about those cereal grains, what domesticable animals did Africa have?
Cooper Martinez
>what domesticable animals did Africa have?
Every animal is domesticatable. I don't know where this notion that you need to stumble upon an animal waiting patiently for the yoke to be placed on it's neck comes from.
Ian Lopez
>Peter Zeihan
he needs to put out more lectures
Bentley Harris
>plenty of plants were brought to Europe pretty early on.
And those same ones were brought to Africa even earlier.
>what domesticable animals did Africa have?
Zebras and Cape buffalo. Yes yes I know, "they can't be domesticated". There is no reason to believe they could not be domesticated given a domestication effort on par with the ones that domesticated wild horses and the Auroch(which was larger than the cape buffalo) All arguments regarding behavior are based on observations of animals that are already domesticated which ignores the entire purpose of domestication.
Also: aside from the horse (which might have been domesticated in central Asia and along with the zebra was indigenous to the Americas) none of the other modern domesticated animals were domesticated in Europe either.
Jonathan Gomez
shit book, read Acemoglu and Robinson, Why Nations Fail
Lucas Morgan
Well I imply that they can be easily domesticated and that you'd want to domesticate them. You wouldn't want to try domesticate a Koala, for example, considering your probably not going to get much out of them. Similarly its also not worth it to domesticate hippos or lions considering the cost in human life in the process.
The animal should also be relatively docile and calm around humans in the first place. You'd be guaranteed only a few generations then before you have something useful.
>And those same ones were brought to Africa even earlier.
Source?
> All arguments regarding behavior are based on observations of animals that are already domesticated which ignores the entire purpose of domestication
Wild horses simply aren't as aggressive as wild Zebras. Domesticating a Zebra can't even be done today due to their violent nature let alone thousands of years ago and without our knowledge of biology or the resources to conduct intensive breeding programs.
Luke Davis
Nature of course shaped the modern negro.
We're lucky that we were shaped elsewhere to have more of our intelligence faculties tested and improved upon. While the negro was out grabbing fruit off a tree or bush hunting, other racial groups up north were developing agriculture, housing, and planning strategically for the future to survive.
So if someone says hey Africa was a tough place you can't blame them! Well that's true, but it doesn't change the fact that their IQ distribution lags behind all the other prominent racial groups.