What are some logically sound arguments against abortion Sup Forums...

What are some logically sound arguments against abortion Sup Forums, and what are some common logical fallacies that pro choicers make that I can call them out on?

Their logic is that an embryo cannot sustain on its own and therefore is not a legitimate being deserving of protection. Well neither can a newborn baby or a 2 year old for that matter

>Their logic is that an embryo cannot sustain on its own and therefore is not a legitimate being deserving of protection
aren't lefties all about helping the poor, stupid and weak
kek

And they're all about "science", unless it concerns fetal viability. Then, it's just, well, it's not a legal person until it's out of the vajayjay, because we said so.

The better question might be:
What are some logically sound arguments for abortion that don't also entail post-natal infanticide?

What is wrong with killing? What is logically wrong with taking a life? Especially when taking a life that could very well harm others. The question most won't bring up is what makes killing a bad thing

Here's what I think:
dad agrees, mom doesn't = abort
mom agrees, dad doesn't = abort
dad and mom agrees = a happy family is born

its """"wrong"""" because women are all about muh emotions

Sound arguments against:

>You only get a few shots at motherhood in your life, will you throw this chance away?
>You might regret this for the rest of your life
>What will any future man think about you knowing you casually flush your unborn children down the toilet
>Most women find it psychologically traumatizing
>No excuses for abortion when there are so many options for contraception
>You could just adopt the baby out if you are not ready for motherhood, the only reason you would abort is for the convenience of not stretching your pussy during childbirth
>You're killing the person who would look after you in your old age
>Would you like it if your mother had aborted you?

a pro choice person either believes that a developing baby is not actually a baby or that killing an innocent baby is acceptable. if they take up the latter position, then they are at least consistent, but also vile and despicable. if they only take up the former position, it is just a matter of seeing what kind of argument they can put up

is it okay to abort a baby five minutes before it would otherwise be delivered? if the answer is yes, then they have to justify why passing through the vagina confers personhood. if the answer is no, then they have to justify what precise step on the continuous development of the body a baby becomes a person

I see no way to pin down such a point. a human life is begun at inception. abortions should be treated like any other killing of an innocent person, i.e. with the highest degree of gravity and judiciousness

If you can have an abortion because the kid relies on his mother, should you be allowed to kill someone whos in a coma on lifesupport(relies on machine) and will be perfectly fine with in the next 4 months should you be allowed to pull the plug, if they say yes then idk theyre honest and realize its murder but if they dont that one works well. Also a human life is defined by 1.Human DNA 2.Human DNA uniqe to themOnce inseminated the embryo has this 3. and that it can grow therefore a fetus is a life and should be treated as such.

You are right, you become a person gradually. Therefore, killing a baby 5 minutes before its birth is 99.9% of a murder. If you allow abortion at an early step, then it is not that bad, though it is a choice that must be done cautiously.

Most common fallacy is the attached meme - "her body."
GENETICS - embryo has different genes than every cell in "her body"
HEMATOLOGY - If embryo has same blood type as mother, it is coincidence. Embryo has it's own distinct circulatory system.
IMMUNOLOGY - Placenta exists to hide the embryo from the mother's immune system. If it was connected directly it would be killed just like any other foreign genetic entity
COMMON SENSE - What other "part of the woman's body" has it's own beating heart and brain?

1. Depriving an innocent human being of its future is morally wrong.
2. Fetuses are innocent human beings with a future.
3. Abortion deprives fetuses of their future.
4. Therefore, abortion is morally wrong.

This argument does not assume fetuses are human persons, just that they are human *beings*, which is true. (They are part of the human species, and clearly concrete beings, not an abstract entity.)

A human corpse also falls into the category of a human being, but is not a person -- it is just a dead human being.

So we can grant for the sake of argument that a fetus is not a person, just a human being.

However, just like us, and unlike corpses, fetuses are human beings with futures ahead of them. Fetuses have futures like ours.

Fetuses are also innocent human beings.

They did not do anything to justify depriving them of their future.

It is clearly wrong to deprive an innocent human being of its future. And that is what abortion does.

The autonomy of the mother does not trump the right of an innocent human being to live out its future.

Further, dependence does not equal identity. A human being depending on a mother does not entail that the mother's body is identical to that human being.

So not only is abortion wrong, it is not even the mother's body, but more accurately it is an innocent human being with a future, who she put in the position of temporarily depending on her body.

By the way, fetuses are also human persons, the argument above is just being modest in allowing the assumption that fetuses are merely human beings and not human persons. So that even granting the assumptions of the abortionist that a fetus lacks personhood, abortionists are still clearly in the wrong.

The weak must die so the strong can live on to potentially have a child that can thrive.
ALL animals do this with absolutely no remorse.

There is literally nothing wrong with abortion, unless it's whites.

The mentally and/or physically disabled should be aborted and euthanized. Prove me wrong.

When I saw my son flailing his arms around on an ultrasound screen in his first trimester, I was changed forever. Anyone who kills a fetus is a legal murderer.

>99.9% of a murder
I chuckled

It meets all the scientific criteria for life, it is genetically human, every one of those cells is alive and totally unique to that being.
>it's not a person
Arbitrary and philosophically ambiguous
>it's not really a living human
The cells are 100% alive
>it's not sentient
Sentience is a misnomer, humans are not at all sentient because we are just machines of varying complexity, you could say three year olds aren't sentient because they are not as intellectually or emotionally developed as adults, to make sentience a point of contention is arbitrary.
Fallacies?
Post hoc fallacy abounds
>it's not x therefore y
Argument from ignorance or the post hoc fallacy, that type of statement has absolutely zero logical flow, they need to explain and justify their position.

I'm just throwing this out there because I hate children and am generally prodeath in most cases but I never understood how "pro-choice" is called that when they demand that abortion clinics be subsidized by tax dollars. You can't choose not to pay for it so how is it a choice?

C-section, no pussy transit involved. Babies born this way are sub humans.

It's not part of the womans body because it has 46 chromosomes identical to the zygote and only it. There doesn't exist a single copy of it anywhere else. Therefore, the cells for all intents and purposes are a seperate organism.

Why should we care about it? Because it has human DNA, human genetic code. It's ultimately what makes a human.

Sperm cells and unfertilized eggs have 23 chromosomes each, therefore they arent human (even thought they technically are a seperate organism). So it's okay to kill them.

Very good stuff.

There are none.
You could argue from the spirit of nobility and that one soul can rationally and non-arbitrarily determine who lives and who dies, but that's not egalitarian and it depends upon whether or not we still accept semi-deific leaders who play god.
If they believe it acceptable they negate human rights in a basic sense.

every woman knows that having sex can make her pregnant. none of them have ever died from not having sex. if you don't want a baby then stop having sex with people you slut

How mamy hearts does a woman have?

>It's not her body, her choice. It's the baby's body.
>It's not only her baby, it's the father's baby too.

But this is just another pro-abortion argument. A newborn and a 2 year old shouldn't be considered people deserving of protection.

Beyond that aspect, post-embryonic fetuses do feel pain and are perfectly viable humans if left unharmed in the womb.

A post-embryonic abortion might be the ultimate expression of the female "me me me me ME ME ME ME ME" obsession. A woman who cannot be bothered to use Plan B, waits until a fetus is viable, then does not choose to give birth to it and put it up for adoption is the most concentrated form that female subhumanity can take.

With that logic, "Its my Gun, My Choice".

Fuck off stupid cunt abortion is killing a defenseless baby for no reason other than your own fuck up.

Murder deserves life in prison. Life in prison means infinite years until you die.
If you kill a baby as a fetus, you should only receive 1% of a life sentence.
>1% of infinity

If you attack a pregnant woman and cause her to miscarry then you will be charged for murdering a person.

But if a woman decides to kill the child then it's somehow considered a clump of cells.

Abortion is basically feminism.

I think mothers have the obligation to care and protect their children thus it doesn't matter whatever stage of develpment that child is. Mothers that kill their child, are the most disgusting thing on this planet. I would even go as far as steralize those woman, as they're forever unfit to have children when they already killed their own. Since women that can't have children are worthless and not needed, I'm okay with them living the consequences of their decicions.

its against jesus christ and the bible

and thats it

if thats not a good enough argument for you youre probably a child of satan and going to take the mark of the beast anyways

Niggers are the best argument for abortion.

>her choice
Implying she got pregnant not by choice. She can't claim ignorance of biology and the chances of getting pregnant.

my great grandmother died because abortions were taboo and none of the doctors around would do it. there are many ancient methods that have been recorded throughout history.

Point being that women are going to always seek out abortions for all kinds of reasons. not allowing them to seek professional care because of feelings or beliefs is ... well... a lot of things.... but we'll be nice and just say wrong

Idk, its kinda messed up to fucking murder babies.

Sage

>my great grandmother died because abortions

good it should be death penalty for abortion
even if she had survived

Why would you deserve an eternity in prison for a murder ? A few decades, sure, but an eternity ?

Hormonal birth control makes the body shed the fertilized egg monthly.

What's the difference between injecting hormones so that the zygote doesn't attach to the uterine wall. Or killing the zygote at some later date?

Why not force women to be pregnant every year or two?

The problem with pro life is that it is a nonsensical position.

>Break the decision all together. Only non-white babies can be aborted.

you deserve to be crucified like your sky fairy.... may the muslims rape your family for generations. because thats what ignorant christfucks deserve.

>implying this hasn't been debunked 6 million times

That would only be true if a person could only get pregnant once a year. Which they don't.

It's like telling an investment bank they can make risky investments all they want and you will bail them out if they go south.

It's the reason that women have sex with random dudes until their mid thirties. If a sexual encounter was likely to end in pregnancy they would be likelier to seek a stable, better man before having it. This would result in more nuclear families.

>her body her choice
She already made several choices with her body, and that's why she's pregnant.

If women had no right to turn down sex then it wouldn't be their fault. But when women get to control their own sexuality then it is their own actions that caused pregnancy.

Killing a living being you created so you can keep doing the thing that creates a living being that you will kill again, is evil personified.

they all agreed when they put benis in vagoo

I used to try and justify abortion but i couldnt rationalize it morally. There are very few instances where it doesnt come off incredibly selfishly. Most liberal arguments you'll see are selfish. (Same with the child free people (

i think a lot of them see it as a merciful act.
>This world is so shit, man, why would you want to bring kids into this world, man... *smokes weed*

Watch the prageru video on it

Abortion is helping the poor by not having an unwanted child.

Logical fallacy:
>b-but what if the mother was raped
>or what if having the child will harm her
>therefore, I get to use abortion to fix my bad contraceptive choices

If the government has to dip their hands into my wallet to pay for abortions then I get a say

Sorry ladies abortion isn't "free" only FREEDOM is in this country

if it's her body then why does it separate from her and live an autonomous life?
If it's her body then why can it move or not move independent of her will?
If it's her body and what she is doing is so natural, then why if left alone and not tampered with, the child will be born healthy?
See, it's not her body, it's how we humans procreate.
You don't kill out of convenience.

That's a human life, it's not a slogan.

I am uncritical pro-abortionist about the early stages of the embryonal development.
In extreme cases - such as rape, severe danger to the mothers health or high chance for the fetus to be damaged or sick, I personally even see even abortion at later stages as viable.

If you want to practice you can try to debate me.
Also ama

abortion is needed so that degenerates abort their children.

...

hahaha great meme

I have a secret message for you.

>Her Body
This is a lie. Humans are organisms.
Consider an organisms as a Country then consider the systems as states/goverment then organs as the organizations then cells as citizen. The skin, for example, is the Military, the bones the buildings, walls, etc.
A Baby is just another country being built inside another just to be placed somewhere else (as Israel).
So Pro-Abortion people are xenophobic and anti-semites.
The Brain is just part of a system but not the system as a whole and not even the whole organism/body

Degenerates are too stupid to abort their children, that or they don't realise they are degenerates and want to raise their children to be degenerates

I find it really hard to be pro-life when it would mean keeping a downy or some other abomination desu.

Nothing. There's nothing wrong with abortion. It keeps the nigger population in check and genetic wastes from suffering.

Does that mean one conjoined twin can murder the other conjoined twin?

That would be both suicide and not suicide.
Good Riddance

>keeps nigger population in check
>niggers have the highest birth rate (in regards to percentage of the population)

There is no consensus on what is considered a "person". There is consensus on what constitutes a Human Being. It is immoral to kill Human Beings unless you are acting in self defense (youll die if you continue pregnancy). Its pretty simple. Humans should not be murdered for the sake of convenience.

Also, its her body her choice, sure. But inside her body is another human individuals body that she shouldnt have the right to impose upon.

Her body her choice. Ok. Should you choose to accept that:

>A child in her body also shares your genes. Therefore, you legally SHOULD have a say in the life of the child.....Considering you are paying for it if/when it is born.

I say no abortions without proof of the father's consent via signature AND only after both parents watch videos about the mental and physical effects.

If you have to watch a half hour "Don't shake a baby" video every time you have a kid, you should be forced to spend a half hour every time you think about killing one.

Just take the Ben Shaprio route and tell them straight up that killing the baby is denying the right to life. They'll probably bring up rape victims and then call them out on their bullshit because 1% of abortions are the result of rape. So how are we going to come to a compromise if you don't address the other 99% of cases?

Negroes in the US have a lower birth rate than whites. Thanks to abortion.

I think abortion is the equivalent of killing babies and think it's fucked

Then I remember it's mostly pieces of shit that get abortions so they're just doing us a favor

I don't value human life in general, I just value the life of persons or the value of human life to which there is emotional attachment.

Also the line we draw for legal abortion is kind of arbitrary and based purely on emotion, taste and culture.
Based on true merit, a pig is more concious than a baby. That we eat pigs but don't (tend to) kill babies (no not 3 week embryos ffs, real babies) in the end is just arbitrary human instinct/emotional attachment. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that. Not even with you guys who believe (mostly for religious/spiritual reasons I assume) that killing off a human embryo less advanced than a snake, an insect, a goldfish is something inherently evil.

I an not defending women who use regular abortions as a means of contraception; these are definitely shit-tier and this behaviour should be discouraged.

Thats exactly it, i know you disagree with my viewpoint nothing will really change it but that is exactly why i think it should be legal. If someone fucks up once, boom the rest of their life is pinned down to taking care of that kid. The fetus has no idea about life yet, it doesnt know what it is missing out on, but the parents do. The parents realize that they have just fucked the rest of their life up. Not to mention if the child is born a lot of the time the family will neglect the child since they dont want it in the first place. Than the child has a shit life. Well that is just my viewpoint and i know many people very strongly disagree but i just wanted to voice my reasoning.

None of these are sound arguments. Most rely on the subjectivity of what people beleive to be in their best interest.
The main focal point of a pro-life argument should surround "why do pro-choicers not find a fetus to be alive/human/eligible for human rights?"
If you let the pro-choicer try to defend this stance long enough, they'll eventually contradict themselves. This is when you use logic to decimate them. Don't get caught up the idea of the mothers quality of life, because this is where the leftist loves to spin it into talking about their own needs and honestly who gives a fuck. The debate should always be about trying to make the left justify killing a baby.

False, the complexity which defines life begins at the cellular level. Every human has a different number of cells. When the death of a human occurs, 100% of its cells dies. If you abort the "cluster of cells" that is a fetus, you are killing 100% of a certain humans cells. 100% murder you fuck.

Tbh there is nothing wrong killing retarded babies. We should've done what the Romans dead where they'd put their deformed retard kids out in the forest to die.

>logically sound arguments against abortion
there is literally no downside to fewer humans being alive

Argue that to be fair to both genders, any state with abortion must also have legal paternal surrender. Most people do not want LPS to be a thing.

Women's bodies are property of their fathers and husbands,therefore the matter of choice should be purely a male issue.
that said, men should always force the women to have children, because
A)it's her duty
or if it was extra-marital
B)the pains of childbirth and pregnancy will remind her not to be a slut again
any other answer is cucked feminist bullshit

So why don't you just have a post birth abortion and kill yourself?

>what are some logically sound arguments against abortion

You paying for all the kids that in your arrogance, you said needed to be born because abortion hurt your feelings.

What if you get raped by a nigger and start developing a shitskin baby with 85 IQ?

Rape doesn't exist, women enjoy it.

I think that was the Vikings and Spartans my nigga

The Romans did it too.

Dude. If a 200 pound nigger bears down on a 100 pound woman and also happens to have a Hi-Point (or even a knife), that woman isn't going to fucking hold them off. Especially not in this shitty "guns are bad!!!!" urban culture.

Even if they get a chemical pleasure reaction from having a dick jammed in their vagina, it's still going to be an 85-IQ shitskin baby patterned after its "father".

Are you going to let that slide, Goldstein?

Why would a woman be alone in the first place?
she should be with a man ,who,of course,would be armed.

Perhaps she's waiting outside a bank or some shit, or Tyrones 2 and 3 shot said man dead while Tyrone 1 raped her, or perhaps all three Tyrones broke into the house while the man was away.

It's impossible to prevent rape. And let me ask you a question: would you personally prefer an abortion or a shitskin baby?

A shitskin baby, even if just to not be a feminist who gives privilege to women.

enemies make people advance as a civilization,women make civilization go back.-
without niggers, you might even stagnate and degenerate into pacifism!

See, a little prodding and the Jew comes sliding out of their mask. Look at you- now you're squealing about how niggers are necessary for a good society- using emotional words to make the alternative seem bad- and basing your entire argument on "i'd rather racemix than let a woman keep her bloodline white".

You either believe it is murdering babies, or you are a irresponsible delusional retard.

the woman keeps the traces of the sperm anyway you doofus, she will be forever out-whited.

appeal to emotion.

They can lean on this one quite a bit in addition to the "my body my choice" fallacy, which merges the body of the infant with the body of the mother.

there are none.

We have now, in our period in time, the most contraceptives available than ever before. Especially for women: coils, the pill, spermicides, implants, patches, vaginal rings, female condoms et cetera. There are so many opportunities and ways to have sex without having a child. The advent of female empowerment has also demanded women be more responsible, as responsibility comes hand in hand with independence. If you choose to have unprotected sex, you must be prepared to accept the consequences should you get pregnant.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to this:
If you don't want to have a child, DON'T FUCKING GET PREGNANT.

Contraceptives are YOUR responsibility as much as they are the man's. You can't expect a man to do everything for you. If you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to take responsibility for yourself - and understand that actions - including taking no action - have consequences. If you choose unprotected sex, and get pregnant, you've only got yourself to blame. After all; your body, your choice.

Which brings me onto my second point: "her body, her choice". Except it isn't her body, is it? It's that of a child. Another human being. Within her, but a separate life nonetheless. What right do you have to end that life? Does the child not have a right to live?

Thirdly, A mother cannot produce a child alone. What of the father? What if he wants the child, and you deny him by abortion? It isn't wholly your creation. It is not, therefore, wholly your decision to make.

The only exceptions where abortion is okay are children by rape and the failure of contraceptives (since you didn't want a child, and acted appropriately. Not your fault it failed).

...

abortion is what keeps the undesirable population low. we need more of it

You want degenerates to get abortions you moron.