Is Italy the World War II underdog?

Is Italy the World War II underdog?

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youtube.com/watch?v=ALy_A5owNUo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre
youtube.com/watch?v=IqoOk5nZEKw
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Footnotes
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Yeah, totally.

They were sooo underrated dude.

Misunderstood.

>56%

I can go on.

Actually, please do go on. I wanna see more of these.

>implying italy wasn't a burden
>deflecting thia hard
(you)

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They should have been well prepared considering fascism helped them avoid the depression after 1929.

I believe Italy's downfall was directly because of it's sub par military might. Mussolini should've taken notes from Hitler during their meetings, and so on, unfortunately despite Mussolini's begging for Hitler to bide him some time, time was working against them and Mussolini was dragged into a shit show.

>building cities
>not wanting a war
>not building weapons instead of burgers that sent thousands of tank to bongs

Then Mussolini got dicklet syndrome and tried to invade Greece because of his retarded irridentism. Germany gave up South Tirol in the interests of alliance, but would Mussolini do the same? No.
So he attacks Greece, which was negotiating about joining the axis, gets his shit pushed in, and forces Germany to save his ass through Yugoslavia, wasting troops that could have been used to fuck up the commies.
Will you fight better in the upcoming war, Mario?

We have some of the best saboteur troops in the world.

But our airplanes... we commissioned f35 and, you know...

What's the root of your anger, lad? We're just having a discussion about Italy and here you come seething at the mouth with such autistic venom.

so what you will, but the Munich Coup attempt was definitely turbo ausitmo, especially if you read up on it about how Hitler was so fascinated with himself and thought the everyone would immediately follow. He was literally mocked and only given such a short sentence, when communists got shot for the same thing, because they saw him as a mentally ill basketcase and took it easy on him.

About Greee you know nothing John Snow.
Greece was an UK backup state, a center of bong spies, and we were full of spies and traitors.
Like Crowley or Badoglio (general wanted by the crown).

Never Forghetti

sure

nice troll

youtube.com/watch?v=ALy_A5owNUo

Btw, at the end Mussolini says for Italian-Americans to "make America Great again."

That's interesting. I've never heard that before, I suppose it wouldn't be hard for an Italian-American to rise in American politics considering most Italian-Americans and literal Italian FOB's vote for anyone with an Italian last name. Most Italian-American communities also value their culture, ancestral past, and so forth even going to the extent of ensuring some of their kids marry fellow Italians.

I wish the Axis won. I know it isn't Italy's fault they lost, but they were not prepared and they made a lot of mistakes.
Metexas was borderline fascist, just like Pilsudski. He probably would have at least stayed neutral, if not outright joining the anti-comintern pact. Probably wouldn't have fought the Western allies, though.
fucking leafs

Italy sucked at the war side but ideologically Mussolini was better than Hitler.

while Hitler was "muh masterrace" "Germans should dominate Europe by killing other whites!" and stealing art/destroying historical sites in Russia, Poland etc.
Mussolini was just making a strong fascist Italy proud of its culture and achievements. Much more generally likable movement in the idea that every country could go fascist and strong that way.
Unlike Hitler's "solution" that conveniently ends with German domination. Germans saying the only way forward is for them to dominate Europe? where have we heard that before? oh wait...throughout history and ongoing today.

>Hitler was "muh masterrace" "Germans should dominate Europe by killing other whites!" and stealing art/destroying historical sites in Russia, Poland etc.
Fake news. (((They))) weren't going to let Germany go free, and Germany was forced to fight for its survival. They had no desire to exterminate other groups.

yes, the 23+ million slavic civillians died by accident.

Hitler wasn't trying to starve St Petersburg and planning to level the city while looting the Tzar's old palaces.

Oh wait...he was.
The holocaust is fake news. What Hitler did to slavs was very much real, and barely even mentioned because "who cares, they are just slavs"

Fight for survival by attacking Poland?
Fight for survival by invading the Czech Republic?
What a joke. It was a German dominance scheme with German excuses/propaganda fueling.
>inb4 muh danzig corridor propaganda!

It's okay, I understand your anger as well. So much wasted potential.

you're totally not trolling.

Im not trolling.
Look up the Siege of Leningrad to understand what I referenced.

As for the rest, its self explanatory.
The "fake" part of the WW2 is that Jews were the victim. However that doesn't mean the Nazis weren't doing fucked up shit, mainly to slavs. They very much were. You can't just deny WW2 happened and re-write a fake narrative where the Germans were innocent angels.

You are just being a jew at that point. Maybe thats the genius Neo-Nazi plan though. To lie as much jews, idk.
Just saying ideologically Mussolini > Hitler.

France lost in few days, if Italy staye out of the conflict Hitler would have direct control to mediterraneum sea.

Greece war was made for that reason too, to avoid germanic expansion to south (Hitler assassinated Romanian rulers and was reading to get to south).

Greece campaign was made in secret from Badoglio, that could call UK, the plan was actually take all the ports, but when the plan started there was a storm, and the fleet could not go in.
The result was that the only possible thing to do was going only up to the mountaigns, and that was almost suicidal, even because Greece in a delirium put all the troops there and left north frontier totally exposed without defense (a joke for Germany).
And the surprise attack could not be done, because UK was there to back up Greece.

I am a Slav, you nitwit. Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan were just bs kike lies. They were just acknowledgements that an invasion of the USSR would result in large-scale suffering if the German army was to stay supplied. A grim recognition of reality, if you will.
War is hell. I would have preferred the Soviets got destroyed before all that death, but if 1/6 of a group must die to allow the rest to live, then so be it. I'd rather die fighting for my people than watch them fade into the abyss.
I'm not angry at Italians per se, as they are fellow whites and valuable allies. I am angry at the mistakes themselves.
Or so you thought. As I said, Italy's focus on geopolitical games shot the Axis in the foot.

Not really.
All the objectives were possible, but were made many mistakes and, as I said, we were full of british spies.

Fair enough.

>Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan were just bs kike lies.
Can you back this up with something?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war
>[...] This resulted in some 3.3 to 3.5 million deaths, or 57% of all Soviet POWs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre
>Unable to proceed forward, some of the German troops began to go from house to house carrying out their orders to shoot all inhabitants. Many civilians were shot on the spot but some were killed after torture and sexual assault.[5] Estimates vary, but Reinefarth himself has estimated that up to 10,000 civilians were killed in the Wola district on 5 August alone, the first day of the operation.[6] Most of the victims were the elderly, women and children.

Lay off the memes and read a text on history. The German plans and actions to genocide the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe are well documented.

How is this even possible?

>Slavs greeting the Wehrmacht with flowers

Ukrainian slavs liked Hitler because Stalin treated them like shits

What about the slavshit plan to cut Germany in half? What about the fact that East Prussia was emptied and wiped off the map?
>oh but that's just war user
Exactly

Destroyer hit a mine and a bunch of people stepped on landmines left behind by the japanese before they evacuated.

Wow, this one picture with no context at all truly disproves the Generalplan Ost.

FIY: Many Slavs in the Soviet Union, especially the Ukrainians, greeted the Germans as liberators, because they thought literally anything would be better than Stalinism.
It didn't stop the Germans from killing them anyway, LOL. The Germans gonna Germ.

>Slavs shilling their jewish lies

What are you talking about?
Germany being separated from East Prussia by the Free City of Danzig justifies a genocide of millions of Eastern Europeans?

East Prussia was annexed by Poland after the war you dipshit

Try and find one fucking photo of Germans greeting the Red Army with smiles and flowers, just one.

>Many Slavs in the Soviet Union, especially the Ukrainians, greeted the Germans as liberators, because they thought literally anything would be better than Stalinism.
You can stop there. Everything else is just bullshit

>you will never live in a neo Greco-Italian Roman Empire
why live

Literally propaganda

Shitaly was the soft underbelly. France is better at fighting.

I won't get down to the nigger level of debate, AKA throwing pictures at eachother.

The exsitance of the Generalplan Ost and the German atrocities against Slavs are well documented. The burden of disproving them lies on you.

Neo-nazis will never become relevant with that attitude.

You still haven't provided a shred of evidence to disprove the Generalplan Ost.

I would not be opposed to this
t. full-blooded Hibernian

And 90% of German troops taken prisoner died. The Eastern Front was a meatgrinder, and the Germans were by no means nice, but considering they had limited resources to take care of huge numbers of POW's while simultaneously maintaining supply lines to millions of troops and battling even more partisans, they certainly weren't evil.
Also the Wola massacre is bad, I won't deny that. But
> collaborationist forces
is a crucial point. I'd guess that other Slavic SS units were involved. Especially since it mentions torture and sexual assault.
Don't forget that Stalin literally left the Poles to rot, waiting for the Germans to kill you while the Red Army watched and refused to help.
He wanted the destruction of your people, while the Germans were acting out of desperation to maintain a rapidly deteriorating situation.

I'm not going to act like Germans were incapable of atrocities. But on the whole, I firmly believe every white country would be better off now had the Axis won.
I agree, partially. Manstein was right that Hitler should have made Ukraine independent rather than make them into more partisans. But Hitler's drugs from a quack doctor made him into a paranoid freak that couldn't give up any control, even when he should have.

...which proves that the Germans were right all along. Also what the hell is this genocide bullshit? All the Slav communities that Hitler took over are still Slav today. Nobody got wiped out, nations weren't emptied. He certainly could have genocided every last Pole but he didn't.

jew freemasons murdered William morgan and bill cooper.

mason cops clergy fuk goyim, at degree 9 they take oath to murder.

Actually the burden of proof lies with you. The Holocaust is as well documented as your Generalplan Ost. Hitler didn't genocided anybody.

>people referring to Generalplan Ost when the only evidence for it is the Soviet Union saying "Just trust us you stupid goy."

If you deny the Holocaust but accept Generalplan Ost, you're not a critical thinker. You just jumped on the bandwagon.

Reminder that whoever is allied with Germany is destined to be their bitch boy.

>WW1: Austro-Hungry
>WW2: Italy
>EU: France

Move into

Italian industry was dog shit , so Italy was very useless as an ally.

youtube.com/watch?v=IqoOk5nZEKw

Leafs literally BTFO

>Italians create own and maintain white civilization for 1000 years
>nordshits LARP as white and try to do it.
>It's destroyed in 10 years and the remnants of their cucked race are slav rape babies thirsty for nigger cum

Sad!

>I can't find one picture of Slavs treating Germans like human beings. However you should believe my communist/Jewish propaganda on so-called atrocities.

I'd appreciate it if you fucked off. Stop coming into threads and spamming your bullshit, we get it, "IT'S HAPPENING" for the 50th fucking time this month.

Christ almighty.

feels bad man

Yet
The South will rise again one day, I am sure brothers

Germany took way more casualties in the war and German soldiers died defending Italians on Italian soil. How many Italians died defending Germany?

Get the fuck out of here nigger.

It's bound to happen. Influence moves.

>He certainly could have genocided every last Pole but he didn't.
Because he was defeated and driven out before he could finish the job, you fucking retard

>which proves that the Germans were right all along.
literally what?

>the Germans have killed 3 million prisoners, but it's ok because they were at war
>they certainly weren't evil
This is just plain evil, and anyone would agree unless they're an actual nazi, which - thank God - are the fringe of the fringe nowadays

So many words, and you still haven't provided any historical source to disprove the Generalplan Ost.

>Don't forget that Stalin literally left the Poles to rot, waiting for the Germans to kill you while the Red Army watched and refused to help.
So you're saying Stalin was evil? WTF, I guess I'm a nazi now, 1488.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Footnotes

>inb4 those are all jewish/bolshevik sources
>inb4 "I have no sources of my own, but trust me"

Absolutely honourable

>Nazis
>swayed by facts
>arguing in good faith
lmfao

Katyn was justified, btw.

...

\
"killed"
More like they starved or died of exposure. Even Western troops died in German captivity, because their entire logistical system was being bombed 24/7.
Damn it, Dabrowski, I'm saying that if you are faced with two sides that have ideologies which will come into conflict with Poles, you side with the one that does the least amount of damage. There is a reason Pilsudski wanted to side with Germany.
Also
>implying literally everything about German "crimes" hasn't been bloated by 70 years of Jewish-controlled propaganda and "research"
>implying I can't go onto Google right now and find 6 gorillion 'eyewitness accounts' of the Holohoax, including totally kosher and unquestionably true reports of SS guards publicly masturbating to tortured Jews
ok

The fact that East Prussia was drained of Germans by the Slavs after the war is proof that Hitler was correct about the Slavs wanting to genocide East Prussia.
(((Wikipedia))) kek
A commie that cares about facts? No such thing.

>bunch of russian names
>bunch of (((German))) names
>not a single original document

>trust me goy, Hitler genocided the slavs. Ignore the fact that he allied some and even had slavic SS divisions. He was a monster
The only """civilians""" that ever got killed were partisans

more amerifats died there than canadians because you fatties triggered 2 mines at once

What's next? Germany didn't betray and attack Italy?

>The fact that East Prussia was drained of Germans by the Slavs after the war is proof that Hitler was correct about the Slavs wanting to genocide East Prussia.
East Prussian Germans weren't killed after the war but shipped off into Germany unharmed.

>More like they starved or died of exposure.
>It's OK to kill 3 million defenseless captives, as long as you do it by starvation, not bullets
I guess the Holodomor was also "just starvation", right?

>your sources are ALL invalid and jewish propaganda
>I have no sources of my own
>Just TRUST ME goddammit!

Lmao, this is what I get from you nazis every single time. Quite a silly bunch you are.
There's no point in even carrying on this conversation unless you provide a single historical source that isn't an out-of-context propaganda photograph.

Thinking about buying a fasces decal for my car window. Going to record how long it takes for some degenerate to get asshurt and key it or something.

If nothing else, it might serve as a conversation starter.

Also, I did some basic searching, and even Jewkipedia admits this of the RONA SS division, which was in Warsaw during your cited massacre.:
>The division formation was never implemented and part of the “RONA”- Brigade was forwarded to Warsaw, where the unit was again involved in committing numerous war-crimes. On August 18, 1944, Bronislav Kaminski was killed. According to various sources, either an SS court found him guilty or he was simply executed outright by the German Gestapo.

Wow, Germany so evil, I love Jewish dick now.
I like Poland and the Poles. I like the basic principles of National Socialism. Stop focusing on the wrong enemy--did the Germans do some wrong? Absolutely. they should not be praised for that. However, we should not discredit the entire ideology simply because of isolated mistakes and desperate measures.
The Holodomor wasn't during a war.
And we are saying that National Socialism is not the Satan it is painted to be. We are not claiming that they are literal saints, and you are trying to shoehorn the argument into an unwinnable and untenable stance that ZERO crimes were committed by Germany.

The Slavs didn't do it, Jews did it. The Slavs are just as much the victims as the Germans, in the grand scheme of things. Don't let the kikes divide us.

Sounds like you got fucking triggered, you fucking leaf.

>unless you provide a single historical source
You didn't provide any historically source in the first place. Show me an actual document of Hitler saying that "inferior Slavs need to be genocided"

>Der natürliche Siedlungsraum des Deutschen Volkes ist das Gebiet östlich unserer Reichsgrenze bis zum Ural ... In diesem Raum werden wir siedeln [...]
Translation by me (I speak German pretty well):
>The natural settling space of the German people is the land to the East, with the borders of our Reich at the Ural Mountains... In this space we will settle.
A quote by Richard Walther Darré, the Reichminister of Food and Agriculture

>We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the East. At long last, we break off the colonial and commercial policy of the pre–War period and shift to the soil policy of the future.
A quote by Heinrich Himmler, the leader of the SS

>As six hundred years ago, the German peasant's destiny must be to preserve and increase the German people's patrimony in their holy mother earth battle against the Slav race.
A quote by Adolf Hitler

>However, we should not discredit the entire ideology simply because of isolated mistakes and desperate measures.
Yes, we should. An ideology that focuses EXCLUSIVELY on the German people, seeking agression against other nations, should be detested and thrown into the trash of history.

Still waiting for sources. You're sure good at writing many words, but your words are without merit.

>East Prussians weren't genocided, we just erased their nation and destroyed their culture.
Look up the definition of genocide.
>Holodomor was the same as what Germany did.
Holodomor was a deliberate famine that took place during peacetime. You can't compare it to the deaths in Germany at the end of the war when the country couldn't even feed its own citizens.
>no sources
At least I have actual visual proof of Germans greeted as liberators. You have made up Jewish statistics
The Germans killed more allied soldiers in Italy than the Italians did. How many Italians died defending Germany?

Germanics had always been in the Eastern lands to some degree. The Russian nobility, for example, heavily intermarried with the Germans. Also see Volga Germans and Crimean Goths.
If you're talking about irridentism, I don't support it now, although the justification for it then was to avoid a repeat of the starvation caused by the Allied blockades of WWI.
> An ideology that focuses EXCLUSIVELY on the German people, seeking aggression against other nations
It didn't seek aggression against others. A willingness to use force is not the same as senseless violence, although I will concede that it will lead to more unfortunate incidents.
And I don't mean German NatSoc. I mean core NatSoc, which can be applied to any nation. I'm just white nationalist, and I make no value judgement between ethnicities, even if circumstances and qualities differ.

"The Italian command was, for the most part, not equal to the task of carrying on war in the desert, where the requirement was lightning decision followed by immediate action. The training of the Italian infantryman fell far short of the standard required by modern warfare. … Particularly harmful was the all pervading differentiation between officer and man. While the men had to make shift without field-kitchens, the officers, or many of them, refused adamantly to forgo their several course meals. Many officers, again, considered it unnecessary to put in an appearance during battle and thus set the men an example. All in all, therefore, it was small wonder that the Italian soldier, who incidentally was extraordinarily modest in his needs, developed a feeling of inferiority which accounted for his occasional failure and moments of crisis. There was no foreseeable hope of a change for the better in any of these matters, although many of the bigger men among the Italian officers were making sincere efforts in that direction."

>visual proof of Germans greeted as liberators.
Pictures are not a proof, especially since all of them were taken right after the nazi invasion, before the genocide and atrocitied began.

>you have made up jewish statistics
>muh Jews
Pathetic. Still waiting for a quality source for your claims, documents that would disprove those "jewish statistics".

In the post above yours I have listed several quotes from top-ranking nazi officials, how would you comment them?

>nazi larper
>likes worst girl
Like pottery

>Germanics had always been in the Eastern lands to some degree. The Russian nobility, for example, heavily intermarried with the Germans. Also see Volga Germans and Crimean Goths.

Oh come on now, this is just the most pathetic justification for an invasion/occupation I've ever seen. Literally grasping at straws.
The quotes, and the subsequent actions, speak clearly: nazis wanted to subjugate and genocide local Slavic populations to settle the land with ethnic Germans.

>nazi larper
How is it LARPing when I defend my ancestors who where NSDAP and SS member.
>likes worst girl
I bet you are one of those guys who said that she was cuter with long hair. She is going to win, wether you like it or not.

>38,300 prisoners

the biggest problem of italy was lack of resource and a mostly retarded officer corp
We had few good officer(like Giovanni Messe that addopted an effective defensive stance in tunisia)
Our tech was advanced in all point,our plane were some of the best in the war,we were some of the first to build radar and our warship kept the enormous royal navy on high attenction for 3 whole years despite total lack of fuel
In Russia our troops menaged to secure a lot of victories agaist the russian despite going with cartoon boots and the total lack of any transport
Infact our action on the Don could have allowed the German Army to retreat in time to better position instead of getting encircled
The early loss in africa was caused by the total lack on coordination(one of our best general died 12 day after the start of the war and he was supposed to lead that army) and food
Graziani was absolutelly pissed to mussolini for the terrible state of that army and the dumb order
He proved his worth later in 1944 launching an offensive that blocked the allies for 1 years
Our aviation had an incredible k/d despite their terrible condiction and lack of fighter and fuel
And our best unit were the unit that weren't dependant of strategic resource
the folgore?
paratroopers with a rifle and yet they destroyed 500 allied tank at el alameim
the X MAS?
a thousand men with some guided torpedo and yet they destroyed 2 british battleship and other minor vessel

SEAG HAIIL my white brother

Italy needed to take up a friendly neutrality policy to Germany instead of an outright alliance. If Germany needed troops, Mussolini could raise a"""volunteer""" force. That way Italy didn't open itself to justified attacks from the British and open a new front

>implying the Allies gave a fuck about neutrality
They've invaded Iran and shared it with the USSR, even though it was a completely neutral state.

i forgot about the eternal anglo attitude, but it is one thing to attack a small power compared to arbitrarily attacking a much more european significant power.

Italy are the Tyrells, everyone thought they were smart but they just could not cope with such a large scale war, fled to the other side & still got fucked in the end.

No way these are accurate. No way. No way, right?

...

this is also true
But you have to consider that the Regia Marina itself kept a lot of english warship in the meds
If we didn't join they would have launched Op overlord much before
Also the ''soft'' underbelly of europe quickly became a fradicidal bloodbath and saw the major number of death from anglo side compared to other front
The ''liberation'' of france and the succesive invasion of germany had 1/3 of the death of the italian campaign,we could say that Monte Cassino was our little stalingrad?
Also the RSI actually could have kept on fighting for much more if Germany didn't surrender(this is funny to say) and Mussolini wanted to run Milan into OUR stalingrad expecially considering that the troop that remained were the most fanatical
and don't forget the 2 milion italian that worked in german industry