You don't seriously think that the Polish would've supported brutal Soviet control knowing that the Americans intended to liberate them, do you?
Also, our generals were given the order to hold up and avoid taking Berlin and Prague. But if the (((commies))) weren't in American high command, we would've took Eastern Europe like it was nothing.
We should have kept the tanks rolling until we got to Moscow, like Patton wanted to. The Soviets had been fighting a brutal land war for years, whereas the Americans had just landed in 1944 with the entirety of American industry behind them.
Faggot commies
What would have happened had we kept moving eastward in Europe while our Marines and the entire Chink army attacked the gommies from the East and South?
Would the USSR survive getting DP'd?
The Nazis sure didn't
Problem is that they were both working for the same masters.
Yep, Patton was right.
Churchill should have been hanged for betraying the countries that were forced under communism.
Patton would have loved to have put the german army back in the field with american logistics and support, but (((eisnehower))) put them in the ruhr camps instead (totally not a genocide though)
Patton was 100% correct.
Eisenhower's decision to withdraw to lower (west) Europe was a mistake
Stalin had a panic attack when the Nazis betrayed him. Can you imagine his shock when Moscow was nothing more than a mushroom cloud?
The problem was manpower. The Soviets had a huge amount of momentum and could basically just throw lives away on assaulting Berlin - no matter what the Germans did to try to hold them back.
It would have taken multiple tactical nuclear weapons to drive back the Soviets.
(((Car accident)))
Could have evacuated Western Europe from the beginning and the Soviets still couldn't have won in the long term. Are Europes aware we were not even trying at this point and intentionally handicapped our army just so no one could know our true power?
Except puny american nukes would not hurt Moscow that much. It's not some shitty city made of paper like Hiroshima.
Too bad our (((Institute for Pacific Relations))) was a communist outcrop of the (((State Department))).
>Also, our generals were given the order to hold up and avoid taking Berlin
The scale of the war in the east was nothing like the scale in the west.
Patton was shittalking too much, the 3rd army was facing several soviet armies, including several tank guard armies and had a massive disadvantage in men and materiel.
Patton would find himself, for the first time in his career, fighting greatly superior odds against a veteran army with a fleshed out doctrine that was the perfect way to wage war against a dispersed allied force in Germany along a broad front.
History is written by the (((winners))), my friend.
You guys are shitting up this discussion by focusing on marginal differences in equipment, the story here is in Geography.
Let's consider the Soviet position in 1945. It is essentially the position that Germany was in at the height of Operation Barbarossa. Think about it
>Long logistical supply lines from center of operation aka moscow/interior russia
>Wide front
>have to operate logistically through eastern europe
>quick drive to the french coast, just like it was a fast drive to moscow
>head-high on a huge winstreak of battles
I GARUNTEE you soviet planners understood in extreme detail why they cucked the germans. The reason was the Germans had to logistically operate in eastern europe, which many have noted has shit roads and is a partisan fiesta. Soviets never pulled the trigger on global conquest in 1945 because they were about to make the exact mistake hitler made.
Okay let's think about the United States now, which was really in the drivers seat to make shit happen. First off, U.S. populace absolutely viewed the Soviets as allies after 4 straight years of lend-lease, so keeping the war going would be a difficult sell at home. Secondly, few people know this but the british were almost bankrupt by 1945 and were completely out of gas. Third and most importantly, American leaders and planners were frankly horrified at how decisively the germans were crushed in Barbarossa. They had EVERY advantage on paper and still couldn't clinch it.
I am telling you, barbarossa is the reason the war didn't go on in 1945.
Moscow would be turned to rubbish with nukes u dumb ruski vodka mouthbreathing piece of shit
Holy fug, Moscow es hart of Soviet Union. Moscow stronk as yak. Nuclear weapon no stand chance.
Yeah, the Frankfurt school had already relocated to Columbia University to pump out communist zombies and subvert the American way of life, IIRC.
One could argue though that while the Soviet armies were well experienced, they were also very worn out from fighting for so long. Also if the US didn't dump so many god damn resources and materials for tank production into Stalin's grubby hands, they wouldn't have had so many. Regardless, with the American industry churning out planes tanks and guns like burger patties, I don't think the American numbers would be trivial at all.
It's all speculation of course.
>Let's consider the Soviet position in 1945. It is essentially the position that Germany was in at the height of Operation Barbarossa. Think about it
Not at all though. The Germans were moving in infrastructure shit terrain, the Soviets were moving into central Europe with a lot of roads and rail connections, no rasputsita, no -40 degree winters.
>quick drive to the french coast, just like it was a fast drive to moscow
See the invasion of Manchuria.
Also to point out: The soviet army wasn't 80% horse drawn
they would not be able to deliver them
they were delivere by bombers in that time lol
>the Soviets were moving into central Europe with a lot of roads and rail connections
a lot of bombed out and useless ones yeah
>Bombers get shot out of the sky trying to deliver the payloads thousands of kilometers through Soviet territory
Then the Soviets notice this declaration of war and march the rest of the way to the Atlantic forming the greatest landpower on Earth ever seen from the Pacific to Atlantic embarrassing and humiliating the Americans to the point of collective suicide and renouncing their shitty capitalist system in favor of socialism and the world enters a 1000 year socialist golden age. Yeah.
In that case the commies would have btfo the allies out of most of europe besides britain, and then the cold war would have happened just like it did in reality
After 44 the soviets were pretty much unbeatable in a land war, atleast until stalin died
then we would have carpet bombed Moscow with nukes
But dont you know those are just crazy Right-wing conspiracies we've all been hearing about?
McCarthy literally didnt do anything wrong
Its called Western betrayal
en.wikipedia.org
Its little known, but the Baltic resistance kept fighting a brutal guerrilla war against the Soviet occupation forcers well into the 1950's, expecting that the West would eventually intervene.
youtube.com
The full documentary is also on youtube
socialism is shit and it is doomed to collapse due to economic reasons
be it ussr or national-socialism
HIDE MEME FLAG POSTS
DO NOT REPLY TO MEME FLAG POSTERS
>Patton was 100% correct.
this
>Eisenhower's decision to withdraw to lower (west) Europe was a mistake
>mistake
depends on the goal, usa and commies are best friends
Bump
>usa and commies are best friends
There was a divide in US high command in dealing with how we should handle the commies post WWII.
Obviously we all know which side won out.
even if we attacked and pushed the soviets back wouldn't we eventually have found ourselves in a similar position as the germans during barbarossa?
Yes but Eastern Europe was between the Russian Industrial Heartland and the frontline, just as Eastern Europe was between the German industrial heartland and the frontline, that was the point I was trying to get across sorry if I didn't clarify that.
>1000 socialist golden age
>1000 year Reich
>mfw neither lasted more than a couple decades
Too bad it took 6 month to produce one at that time with a 40% failure rate.
Delusional americans.
This thread is full of misinformed delusional americans.
we had forces on both sides of the USSR, had the Japs invaded the gommies from the east while krauts moved in from the west they might have been more successful
Exactly, it's basically the first guy who Takes Eastern Europe and has to push a logi-train through it loses. Eastern Europe being a balkanized fiesta is what brings peace in europe, not even trolling.
the US had the Bomb, they could have easily dropped it on Moscow and that would be that.
>meme flag
opinion discarded
The thing is. Hitler was doomed to lose againt USA and Russia. When the ww2 ended communism should only be enforced on the soviet Russia instead on other countries. Russians were the real subhumans and they deserved communism. The allies betrayed central and eastern european countries when they let Stalin to spread his tyranny
You have no ideia how Russkies are used to deal with long distances. Go look at a map. Observe. Look at it carefully and look how they have disposed their important cities.
Go, now.
not really relevant. Cars and Trucks have just as hard of a time in the mud as horses, also there weren't that many rail connections going East-West through europe.
Tbh the soviet army was way too large and had way too much equipment to allow the possibility of making the operation unthinkable real
It would have taken way too much time to allow the US Army to fully deploy itself and having a force that can compete with the soviet, Stalin would have steamrolled everything until Sicily and Brittanny by that time. Besides the german army was completely wrecked, there is no way rearming the germans could assure victory against the soviet even if I could fap on that idea
And the western nations were completely destroyed, no real industry left, most of the european countries were left in ruin, the rearmed western countries didn't have the means to sustain their army by themselves nor to wage a new war against the current most powerful land army in the world, even if at the end of the war countries like France had once again a large army
(((Eisenhower))) saved in that regard half of Europe from communism
true. We definitely should have made some major rearrangements to the world map back when we were the only country who had the bomb.
>flag
The heart of Russia is to the west, they manage a huge terrain by not using large parts of it and concentrating in certain areas, I don't even know what you are trying to prove in this statement.
> Patton gets the go ahead to roll le tanks
> We got this, Soviets must be totally wiped out at exactly this moment despite buzzsawing through far superior Wehrmart for 3 years straight
> A week later burgers wonder how all their shit got pushed into the Atlantic
Stalin: Welcome to the Eastern Front, faggots
we've been over this many times here and on /k/, but apparently you average shart subhuman possesses historical insight of illiterate ghetto nigger and memory span of amoeba. the soviets outnumbered allies in europe 3:1 in tanks and 5:1 in men, the b-29 superfortress lacked the range to reach any large population center or industrial facility in ussr from european or pacific bases, soviet yak-7 and mig-3 service ceiling exceeded that of the superfortress. any awkward american move eastward would have ended up in your utter assrape and brutal curbstomping, and the entire europe would have ended up red
>heart of Russia is to the West
weird how Germans got beaten despite destroying and holding everything "to the west"
Very probably.
Some that replied to your post forgot Japs broke down because Soviets kicked their ass in Manchuria.
You should be a target in a firing range but you are right
Presented with facts
>opinion discarded
Stay strong there mouth breather.
No. Despite the memes Wehrmacht had no idea what they were doing. Their logistics were shit, their mechanization was shit (even pre-lend-lease USSR didn't use horses to tow guns, Wehrmacht was the last major army to do that), their field repairs system was shit, they didn't have any fucking manpower reserves or pilot rotation system and after Barbarossa stalled they had no other plan (Case Blue was an opportunistic operation made possible by incompetence of Soviet high command at Kharkov). USA was much better in all of these regards and would have steamrolled USSR in the war of attrition in Eastern Europe. If anything you would have just built your own infrastructure there.
we probably would have just nuked you
>reddit spacing
>larp flag
Operation Unthinkable was supposed to involve 100,000 Nazi servicemen. This would've made for great propaganda for the Soviets.
Never made it to Moscow, were bogged down and crushed in the buffer states/regions
Just shoot from far away so you don't get hurt lad
>betrayed
east european cuck detected. Polack or hohol probably, those are most delusional. Why are you guys so entitled? nobody owns you anything and nobody betrayed you. Needy fuckers.
Either way, I find it difficult to believe and have to suspend belief to even envision the average murrican even supporting such a war let alone being willing to potentially sacrifice millions of men for it.
You can't really bomb out a road, it just takes dirt to fill it in, and railroads are quickly repaired as well. The soviets, and the Germans, had crews just for that.
Everything is just a lot closer and the road network is extremely well developed. I mean, you had German units walking over to the allies in the last days of the war.
The difference is that going into Russia the numbers of roads, rails and rail hubs decreases thus limiting your supply. Going into Europe they increase in number so there's no bottlenecks like those experienced by Germans.
There's also less distances involved. Warsaw - Moscow is over 1600km. Berlin-Paris is 880km.
>not really relevant. Cars and Trucks have just as hard of a time in the mud as horses
The difference is that central Europe doesn't experience mud season like Russia. Rasputitsa is a Russian phenomenon. Secondly the road network is a lot better with paved roads.
>also there weren't that many rail connections going East-West through europe.
Now that's just stupidity on your part.
>implying the soviets could have continued to throw millions of waves of peasants without American industry fueling their entire tank and weapons production
>implying the soviet army could actually match up with the Wehrmacht
>implying they were exhausted after years of getting slaughtered
Like I said, America landed in Europe with the full force of American industry behind it in '44. Soviets had been fighting for half a decade.
>weren't* exhausted
>larping defeat of 1945 Soviet war machine
>triggered to death the enemy's flag and paragraph spacing
burger military adventures in a nutshell
excellent reading comprehension, and again, stellar knowledge of military history. you have no idea why i mentioned b-29, do you?
>gommie larpers think the USSR could take on the entirety of the western allies
>when they lost to FUCKING FINLAND
But they didn't.
Heart of the Soviet union was pushed to the central area of the URSS. No way any kind of western troops would be able to march those distances before having to deal with the red army.
Soviets never had any problem with scorching and abandoning their cities. They've even done it to Moscow several times in their history.
Geography pretty much hasn't given them defenses. They have to thank their dead czars for conquering land to the East. That's their real defense. Burn and retreat and watch you fuss in their winters.
Napoleon made it to Moscow though
The funny thing is that except the air force the german land army was less modern and effective than the french army, if the french used radio on a larger scale and didn't have complete retards doing the war plans the germs could have been reckted directly
Heck, even with an incompetent chain of command in the french army and even if they pushed really quickly the germans had freaking huge casualties during the battle of France, casualties that forced them to stop any major operations for a long time (they had to suck every french tanks and other guns and ammunitions to rearm their forces)
when did the Soviets take Finland?
>T-THAT WAS NEVER OUR GOAL
of course the loser would say that
At least Finns had a semblance of balls though, western allies got their shit handed to them by german kids with inhalers.
Are those soldiers soviets ? The NCO has clearly a red army uniform but the soldiers look like germans with a mosin nagant
>Warsaw - Moscow is over 1600km
Berlin-Moscow*
Not all wars are about complete annexation.
>nobody owns you anything
Latvia, and the other Baltics, was a net contributors to the Soviet budget, and that huge proportions of the republic’s budget were allocated to Soviet military stationed on its territory.
va.lv
You owe us, so pay up.
And in that half a decade caught up and surprassed the Western military achievements.
Had a way bigger army, and many more peasants to keep throwing at Murricans.
You americans are way too indoctrinated.
lend-lease was caused by barbarossa
barbarossa was biggest military operation
Hitler was able to capture big industrial regions and urban centers, thats why lend-lease was required in 1941-1942.
The Germans wiped out ur whole army at the border who was supposed to invade Europe despite the non aggresive pact between Hitler and Stalin. You are right that the germans were poor at thinking rationally and ahead with their actions. Soviets had no real strategy and only poured people to the battlefront in masses in hope of winning.
>state what territory you want to take from Finland before the war
>fight war
>end up with said territory after the war
>HAHAHA YOU LOST THE WAR BECAUSE YOU DID WHAT YOU WANTED
Burger education at its finest
WWII was
Why didn't the Allies annex the Axis powers?
>Wehrmacht had no idea what they were doing
>conquered half of europe
u wot m8?
Russians are the real subhumans. Its basically written on ur foreheads
The question is, would Americans be willing to lose millions of soldiers in war? all german veterans mention how amercans were pussies (compared to russians) that would stop at every obstacle and call for arty strike/air support and run if opposed. Not even saying it's bad, but it would not work on soviets.
Churchill wanted to keep going to liberate poland, by this stage he Britain was owned by the americans.
>Soviets had no real strategy and only poured people to the battlefront in masses in hope of winning.
en.wikipedia.org
With what? The B-29 that couldn't reach any meaningful Soviet city?
Or with the bomb that would took you 6 months to build and had a 40% failure rate?
Churchill didnt have a say. The americans wouldnt support him in advancing on the soviet union.
we did, just from behind the scenes instead of flat out
The leaf actually gets it.
They more oftenly said that the US army was such a mess that it was really hard to know what they'll do since they probably don't know either
>The state of the american education system
Churchill was of jewish blood and collaborated with the Soviets.
3-5 If they had hit major resupply junctions and or some of the major cities. Could have done it in three months no bother.
>we would
But you did what (((they))) told you to do, amerigoy :)
/thread