>healthcare isn't a basic human right because you don't have a right to the labour of another person
Why are Conservatives so fucking stupid? The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. It's literally the same thing.
Healthcare is just as much of a basic human right as having a lawyer, and even more of a basic human right than owning a gun.
>conservatives
Not about conservatives. Liberals are against it too. Ask the Jew why he thinks it's a better idea to spend money on wars for Israel rather than the health of the folk.
Not an argument
Every obese person in America will pay 200,000 MORE dollars than an average person in healthcare. Are you ready to foot the bill?
>The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. I
Because you are being forced to attend court.
No one forced you to smoke a pack of Marlboros every day for thirty years.
Living is not a human right, justice is
The state imposes justice on you, so the state provides representation.
The state doesn't impose disease.
We need to implement better health programs as well. We are pretty unhealthy as a nation. Sugar, salt, and fats are addictive. The ought to be regulated like any other addictive substance that is detrimental to your health.
>healthcare isn't a basic human right because you don't have a right to the labour of another person
Yet the government has the right to tax your labor somehow.
Hospitals already by law cannot turn people away. That's your 'right to a lawyer' right there.
Have you had a public attorney before? Have you used a public hospital for late stage cancer?
Plus, the right to a lawyer doesn't imply free. You will pay court fees for your shit lawyer and go to prison if you lose.
Will your health courts just sentence people to their fates after giving them their free doctors that still cost them?
would you prefer we all have the shit hospital emergency room level health care? Give up the right to choose your doctor and have it assigned like your lawyer.
No discussion of right to doctors and hospitals is found in the Constitution.
And do you think Healthcare is the same as health insurance?
We should take on socialized medicine. It would basically cease outright and and entirely the development of medical technology.
REAL NEWS BREAKING
archive.is
So fine the fat people. This is not an argument against it.
>UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE WOULD FORCE DOCTORS TO DO THEIR JOB
>THEY'RE ENSLAVED EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD QUIT THEIR JOB AND THEY GET PAID A SHIT TON
jesus christ that is the worst argument against universal healthcare
Go to any hospital.
There is all the healthcare you can stomach waiting for you.
You equate healthcare with health insurance like a lot of other retards.
Off my Sup Forums, Rodger Stone.
I hope you are aware that the entire world is laughing at your country being the first military power and 2nd economical power in the world and still not having healthcare in 2017!
Isn't this pic from like 2014? Like media was sperging about Rand's statement
>the us government is already bloated and can basically do nothing efficiently or proficiently
>give it more power and more responsibility
Genius plan!
We can all be shocked when they botch that too.
So you are pro forcing hospitals to foot the bill when an uninsured person goes to the emergency room?
If not, you are in favor of socialized healthcare.
>that picture
Holy strawman batman
I hope you are aware that
>The world is laughing at you!
is not an argument.
When and why did your country adopt its healthcare system?
The lawyers are government employees though. Its not like you just get whichever lawyer yoi want. Also they get so overworked that they can't do their job effectively.
Are you against military spending as well? Hypocrites all of you.
Rand Paul really is a dick.
At this point I am against the government gaining any additional power until it does a good job wielding what it currently has.
The world is going to laugh at us no matter what we do, so who fucking cares? Heavy lies the crown.
The right to a lawyer is basically the cost of law enforcement shared equally if you didn't have a right to a lawyer then those accused of crimes would carry an unfair share of the burden of law enforcement
No, I am for the uninsured person footing the bill for their own healthcare.
If the us federal government didn't suck more than your mother after 9 coronas I would be willing to discuss it getting further involved in the issue.
yeah, it is an argument against it, because the same INSANE leftists shilling for UHC are also the same ones shilling for FAT ACCEPTANCE. this is how retarded cuckservatives get tricked and lose so badly to the left. "w-w-well we'll pass single payer and then to make it affordable and more fair we'll later pass a tax for the people who are the most unhealthy" and the leftists have their victory and shut down all your attempts to make the system less burdensome on the whites that will have to pay for it by calling it (((discrimination))) and calling you a bigot for even suggesting it.
ding ding ding
>USA decides to not do anything with Nork
"USA are pussies! Whaaa save us!!! Why didn't USA help SouK?!"
>USA fights NorK
"Fucking imperialist scum! USA is so bad!! booo!!!"
All you fucks bitching about the USA being bad or evil or wrong should take a deep hard look in the fucking mirror and then go clean your rooms. Canada is included in this.
>$500,000 bill for livesaving surgery from accident
>Guy works for $20/hour, has $10,000 saved up.
>Hospital takes all his money, still out $490,000 that this guy will never be able to repay.
And how does this work exactly?
Honorary American?
Nice strawman fag. When the government charges you with a crime they are then imposing a duty onto you, therefore they are obligated to supply you a defense if needed.
There are no arguments in what you just posted, just nonsense.
What are you arguing for? What policies?
Why didn't he use some of that savings and purchase his own health insurance?
"Healthcare is a right" is the single most retarded statement anyone can make. Sorry for intellectualising this, I know leftypol hates it, but I have to.
What's the definition of a right? Ask yourself that. It would be something along the lines of: being able to unequivocally receive whatever it is at anytime from anyone without hindrance e.g. free speech. If healthcare fits that definition, then I'm able to walk up to a homeless man on the street and demand that he treats my cancer and if he doesn't then I can take him to court.
So stop throwing this "healthcare is right" bullshit around and start saying what you really mean. You mean to say that everyone should have the option to access free healthcare from a medical professional, but not necessarily any medical professional, at any time.
Now I'll ask how you plan to finance that. I'm not paying shit towards your free healthcare. Why should I?
I hope the real Americans invoke their second amendment right soon and end the tyranny they've been subjected to. Unfortunately in this authoritarian shithole called Europe, we didn't have any such founding fathers to provide us with a way out so we're stuck with it.
>Doesn't have healthcare
Can confirm, not a hospital or doctor anywhere in the country.
>Guy purchases health insurance, regularly pays into it.
>The cost of his health insurance is determined by factors of risk in his life. If he becomes unhealthy, smokes, etc, he may have differently priced health insurance.
>Multiple insurers compete in the market, thereby reducing the cost.
>When he gets in an accident, the accident is paid for by the pool of covered people that he has been paying into for years and years.
>Everyone is covered in the pool, insurance companies make money, everyone receives their healthcare for a small payment every month rather than paying thousands and thousands of dollars in the event something happens.
This is the way it happened for the last 40 years or so before Obama, and there wasn't really a problem with it.
The rest of the world can laugh down the barrel of a rifle for all the good it does them
Don't you have someone to surrender to you socialist cuck?
So firemen, policemen, and road builders are enslaved? Libertarian are honestly the most retarded people in existence.
Fat people are now oppressed... How long before this spread to other campuses? Will they add a W to LGBT? Will they add a doughnut to the fag flag? Will you forced to hire fat people?
Why do you care? It is that person's issue to sort out. They can ask their community for help, get some well-structured payment plans in place.
If I do not have auto insurance why should you replace my car? Is it fair for me to tell you that you owe me because I had an accident and now my car is busted and I can't go to work?
Just stop and take the fucking feelings out of your arguments for once.
Maybe what needs to be considered is WHY the service costs so god damn much in the first place, and not that it should be paid for by the public, you fucking pleb. Could it be that cronyism and regulations cause cost to skyrocket? Golly gee... I never stopped to look past my emotions and possibly consider that there is more than one solution to any problem....
He was a stupid alt right faggot anarchist who emancipated himself at 16 and thinks he is invincible.
No parents, no relatives. He's an orphan.
And no church obviously since he's a faggot russian cock sucker.
forgot link.
campusreform.org
I want to become one sometime, but I am currently working on a degree. Been working for a US company for 10 years, only gone on a few bike trips down, but want to taste the freedom every god damn morning.
The purpose of the lawyer is to defend you against the state, not against the maladies of the universe. And logistically speaking, defense attorneys are much easier to provide since people rarely if ever need them, one lawyer can cover the labor necessary for many people, and the government doesn't have to be involved in managing the vast majority of legal services to guarantee legal coverage for all people.
Also the quality provided by public defenders is pretty bad and rationing is a major problem in high crime areas which demand the most services.
>ou mean to say that everyone should have the option to access free healthcare from a medical professional, but not necessarily any medical professional, at any time.
Yes, that is what Medicare for All is. Go fucking read it faggot. The financing is all there.
Why do you oppose it? It's cheaper than the stupid fucking obamacare plans that you all hate.
Repeal and replace my ass you fuckheads. If you were serious about it, you would have had a plan.
You're retarded for misinterpreting the argument. The argument isn't that the doctors choosing to work for the system are slaves, it's that if healthcare is a right, it means I could ask you on the street to treat my cancer and take you to court if you refuse. Then there's the small issue of why the fuck am I paying for your free healthcare? Get off your ass and earn some money if you want the privilege of healthcare.
No, because you don't have a "right" to roads or firemen or police. Once you start demanding that something is your "right" that's when you have to then coerce someone else to give it to you.
If I say you have a "right to food" then you can technically just walk in the grocery store and take it off the shelf and not pay for it. After all, it's your right, is it not?
>muh free shit
God, I can't wait for summer to end.
Most institutions that we enjoy in modern society rely heavily on government and regulation. Sure its not perfect, but without it we would be fucking savages.
Our actual care is better than yours.
I don't think people understand what a right is. I have the right to bear arms, but the government isn't obligated to buy me the best quality rifle that the system can offer.
>Every obese person in America will pay 200,000 MORE dollars than an average person in healthcare. Are you ready to foot the bill?
you claimed this wasnt an argument against UHC, saying HUR JUST FINE THE FAT PEOPLE MORE and i explained why that wouldnt work and why telling healthy, whiter people that they need to be ready to foot the bill for everyone else IS an argument against UHC. was this really that hard to follow?
Why do we oppose it? Jesus. Answer this: why should I be forced to pay for your healthcare?
You do have a right to food, we have a thing called foodstamps
you have the right to healthcare, yes, go out and buy some
The military is plagued by massive waste, but they are a necessary service. Moreover, they are a service with no viable business model, they are an expenditure and an expenditure alone much like police and the courts.
Just fucking start by being able to buy cross-state insurance.
After that go on your political dicksucking carousel.
If you have the money. We have some of the best doctors in the world, but what use is it if the middle class can't afford them.
I hope you know the world has been laughing at your country since WW1
...
>The financing is all there.
What the fuck are you talking about? It's going to cost 400 BILLION dollars in CA to do this, they don't even know how they are going to pay for it, the state doesn't even have 10% of it.
latimes.com
Feefees:
>“Despite the incredible progress California has made, millions still do not have access to health insurance and millions more cannot afford the high deductibles and co-pays, and they often forgo care,” Lara said during a floor debate on the bill.
Facts:
>“We don’t have the money to pay for it,” Sen. Tom Berryhill (R-Modesto) said. “If we cut every single program and expense from the state budget and redirected that money to this bill, SB 562, we wouldn’t even cover half of the $400-billion price tag.”
>Why are Conservatives so fucking stupid? The Constitution guarantees that every American has a right to a lawyer or attorney. It's literally the same thing.
No it isn't. The government doesn't force you into a hospital when you're sick. The government DOES force you into a trial when you're accused of a crime. Because the government is forcing you into something, the Constitution makes it so they have to provide you a lawyer and a fair trial.
Also that pic is stupid as shit. Anything on the left is government tyranny.
>hurr durr muh social contract taxation is voluntary
Climb out of your ass.
Only the purple is free. Corporate tyranny results from government intervention like overregulation and subsidies. Pick up a book on economics and stop listening to Bernie gimmedat Sanders going on about
>muh 1 puh cent
You have a right to get a car, but you must still pay for it.
>"still not having healthcare"
>implying America doesn't have a single doctor
>implying America doesn't have a single hospital
>implying America doesn't have the best trained, best educated doctors in the world
You dipshit.
You don't. I don't have to perform any labor for you, for any reason. I own my own business, and there are plenty of dickhead customers that I flat out won't work for anymore. Especially liberals.
>muh un
Thanks for the chuckle.
they have the right to STATE lawyers provided by THE GOVERNMENT.
not to private lawyers with their own practices
stupid hideous nigger.
He's not wrong. If he were you'd be able to argue against his logic.
Because I would also be paying for yours
No you don't. Show me in the constitution or any other founding document where you are explicitly guaranteed a right to food.
Just because you have a fucking entitlement doesn't mean it is a RIGHT. The government could end the foodstamp program tomorrow if they had the balls to do it, and NO ONE'S "rights" would be violated.
Go to your local foodstamp office and tell them you make 100k a year and you're here for your foodstamp card, and tell them it's your right, they will laugh you out of the office. You have to meet certain criteria (be poor, have a ton of kids, degenerate) before they'll give you aid. And welfare, food stamps, etc, are NOT RIGHTS.
Fuck you're retarded.
under fucking rated
It's why I vote for him every time. And will continue to do so. Pretty stoked he's one of my senators.
See:
A bunch of diplomats half-way around the world claiming you have a right to health care doesn't mean you do.
>fills the country with immigrants no one has anything in common with
>demands all the citizens to give up their income to help everyone else
>but we're all part of the 'human race', it is a 'human right'
'humanism' is a fantasy. rights do not follow from the ideas of prof schlomo. but from things that men have done and sacrificed. in duties, a word that has doubtless never left your tongue. you despise the two things that embody duty: patriotism and religion. so you will reap what you sow. nothing.
Not to mention all the top 20 medical schools are American, most drugs in the world are American and almost all of the worthwhile medical research is conducted in America. There's a reason people flock to America in their hundreds of thousands for healthcare each year rather than the other way round. If America falls to the single payer shills, humanity will suffer big time. Stay strong America.
>legal analogy
Ok fine. You go with the shitty physician with a mile high stack of patients to see that day but stop trying to prevent me from using my resources to procure superior care for myself and my family. Because you see, I'm not a worthless commie with a gibs attitude.
He's the dick we need, but apparently not the one we deserve.
This is perhaps the first time I've ever seen a pro-American style healthcare argument from a Brit.
>Based
Saved, great sentence.
Not just in the upper echelon of incomes. Prior to Obamacare the middle class had great and affordable healthcare. Deductibles, premiums, copays -- everything has skyrocketed to provide subsidized care to the poor and abjectly sick. The middle class has since stuck with minimal usage of health services or foregone insurance entirely in spite of the mandate.
My premium pre-Obamacare was $65/mo. for better care, better copays and vastly better deductibles. It's over $200/mo. now and the cost of utilizing services outside of a free yearly doctor's visit is too high for me to bother with.
>we need to regulate salt, sugar and fats
Fuck off, commie.
saddam and gaddafi managed to do it
Then by that logic why don't we save ourselves the trouble and pay for our own care?
I don't want to pay for your care and I don't want you to pay for mine. I want to pay for mine and I don't give a shit if you want to spend on healthcare or not. It's none of my business so fuck off out of my bank account.
> Moreover, they [the military] are a service with no viable business model
Oh, my dear friend, how little you know of history. Even the Greeks and Romans had men who knew how to make a living out of killing. There is a viable business model in a privatized military. You might not like what it loks like, though.
Everyone has a right for a minimum standard of living. It may not be written in the Constitution, but that's just how it is now bud. If you make 100k a year you don't need assistance to get food, you already have the means to get it. If not, you are given the means to get food by the government.
Oh look another leaf namefagger. If only there were a website that I could offer you some sort of epoints or karma for your post and your clever username, that way you'd be able to know that I care about what you have to say...
Discussion ended here, why does this thread still exist? OP eternally BTFO
I bet n korea does it
>leftist using shame tactics
how's that been working for you, alinskyite?
Your case is flawed by many degrees. 1. The government cannot force you to buy anything. This is why Obamacare went to SCOTUS so many times. 2. Read the constitution. 3. Th right to have an Attorney present isn't something we are charged for simply for existing. It is to coincide with constitutional protection, against false imprisonment, et cetera.
Didn't you know the government has unlimited capacity to bear debt? Just ask Illinois.
Today there is no viable business model for a military providing the common defense. Pillaging hasn't sustained military action since Sherman.
>Nazi
>Voting for Rand Paul
choose one
I hope you get the same quality of doctor as you would get from a court-appointed attorney... and well you can only get those if you prove you are dirt poor.
But the average American is obese