How do you counter the "capitalism killed more than communism" retort that gommies always trot out when you bring up...

How do you counter the "capitalism killed more than communism" retort that gommies always trot out when you bring up the communist death tolls?

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Socialism and communism are different things.

Socialism is the first step towards communism

I think she's referring to National Socialism (Nazi) which provided labor for the nation, not death.

Use the "at least capitalism works" argument with a commie, they'll just go on about theoretical shit to sugar coat their ideology without any examples from history to prove communism works better

Just the simple idea that the government controls everything and all of your possessions belongs to everybody is shit

Yes, that doesn't make them the same thing.

nobody died in the name capitalism but lots died in the name of communism

The 2008 bail-out sure showed us how well it works

No, she's a NazBol now.

Bail-outs aren't capitalism and neither are the government policies that caused the bubble.

in the same way that a fire is different than an inferno.

Pretty much. Communism needs a death toll to function, capitalism does not.

>2008 bail-out
not real capitalism

Retarded analogy, fire is useful, socialism is not.

So by that rationale, the death toll in stalinist Russia is also null and void since it wasn't done under 'real communism'(tm) ?

remind them who pol pot was

Commies consider every death that didn't happen under a communist country (regardless of circumstance) to have been the fault of capitalism.

Oh, I don't follow her, last time I checked she was in trouble for being a Nazi.

You don't. The moment they say that you know they can't be reasoned with.
I mean, you'd have to be quite braindead to compare a political movement with an economic model.

Concede the point.

Say that all capitalist societies should stay capitalist and all communist countries should stay communist to avoid further deaths.

Propose a one year period where a capitalist can move to a communist country, and vice versa.

Then listen to them reee over current wars, which are, of course, capitalist wars in their minds.

Read lenin fagot socialism is the transition to communism

So... they're different? Exactly as I stated?

Thanks for the quality post.

They probably consider heart attacks is fault of capitalism.

They are in theory different, but in truth Communism has never existed because it's an insane fantasy that fall apart in the interim- IE, the socialist stage.

>starving because of a lack of resources is the same as being forced into a ditch and shot in the back of the head for having one extra cow.

wew laddies

I say per capita per year practicing, Gommunism has a far higher lethality; a far lower ED50. Pic unrelated.

That's like saying that an egg and a chicken are unrelated. Socialism and communism are even less distinguishable, and easily confused by the people who practice it.

Communism is state-level socialism in theory.

I agree real communism hasn't been tried, because its tenets are antithetical and impossible to implement, you just end up with a dictatorship.

I never said they're unrelated, maybe you should read my posts before you respond with that sharp American wit.

>government interference into the workings of the free market is now considered capitalism
European brainwashing at it's finesf

so you admit your system is so retarded people can't even implement it correctly

>starvation's in cap countries
we have fat homeless people.

they're not dying due to lack of food.

Okay, there was government intervention in the economy that makes it not capitalism. Communism can mean many ideologies. It was certainly real Stalinism.

You did by implying they were two different things. If you could read you'd see I stated that those who practice the two are confused because they are the same thing. I'm guessing you don't know what a synonym is. They are two different WORDS, not things. Seems like that Aussie wit is shit, mate.

Communism will kill you for looking sad.
Capitalism will sell you a product that makes you happy instead.

Capitalism is inherently more individualist than Communism/socialism (since authority is required to maintain public ownership of the means of production) and therefore deaths under capitalism cannot be attrbuted to the authority, but to the people. The only deaths for and by capitalism are under the far-right reactionary dictators, like Franco and Pinochet, who had to eliminate socialists.

Aussie lad, these LARPERS love Socialism when its for spending on things they like
>Muh infrastructure
>Muh guns

But when it's used to hold capital and wealth to account for looking after there fellow Christian brother, you know the way Jesus showed, they get awfully tetchy

Well, I'd take a financial crisis over hundreds of millions dead for one thing

Capitalism is corrupted inevitably just as communism is but the outcomes are different as you can easily see.

Capitalism is "the best idea we've had/tried so far". No one, or only a fool would argue that it's some kind of perfect system or the only possible system. But before you go around ranting that we need to DESTROY CAPITALISM, you'd better come up with something better first. And that something better IS NOT COMMUNISM.

Communism is a murderous totalitarian/utopian ideology that is not even an option, unless you're retarded.

>your system
Cool story bro.

I don't know how to argue against something so inane. You're welcome to your opinion, but it is wrong, pick up at least a dictionary before you make such stupid assertions.

their*

Capitalism built the modern world. To say it killed people is to imply those people wouldn't have died in a state "without capitalism" to leftists there is a magical state where people don't oppress each other by default and capitalism is an exploitative intrusion on that. In reality, feudalism was replaced by capitalism. So when they say this ask if they prefer feudalism? Then they'll say no I prefer my pretend utopia and you can make fun of them for that.

Nazis killed less than communists. Heil Hitler and rev up your ovens faggot.

There was a drought in a country that happened to be capitalist vs soldiers blocked roads and stopped food shipments in rebellious areas of a communist country

And when has capitalism been implemented properly?

Saying ideas kill people is like saying gravity is to blame if somebody jumps off a building and dies

Capitalism centralises its power voluntarily.

>2017
>still sticking up for capitalism

both systems are shit

Note that i find "Communism kills people" to be a retarded statement as well. There are countless valid arguments against Communism and specially Communists that don't involve retarded statements

>being this fucking stupid

what's your proposed solution?

Letting the whole thing crash and burn along with the world economy would have been a better solution is what you're saying
But you're a braindead jackass who thinks regulations aren't a vital part of any economic system so this discussion was doomed from the start. Finesf indeed
If you look into what country has been sabotaging foreign countries, staging coups and waging wars across the globe for the past decades, leading to the refugee crisis, the rise of a terrorist state and tens of thousands of related casualties, you'll realize capitalism is far from being an innocent economic system
You did have the decency to point it out, but people like you easily overlook how exactly it has been destructive

What? Wouldn't it be like saying somebody's idea of jumping off the building caused it? Saying gravity caused it would be like a Marxist's idea of "material conditions caused if"for everything.

Only jealous poorfags think capitalism is bad
Get a job

Capitalism has existed for longer, and there is more capitalist countries.

delet this

U KNO THEY WERE NOT LBAOR CAMPS

This is a pointless debate.

One system is backed by empirical evidence of its success while the other is simply wishful thinking or willful ignorance of human nature.

>Capitalism has killed over a billion people
Mate, there weren't even one billion people in socialist countries

>How do you counter the "capitalism killed more than communism" retort that gommies always trot out when you bring up the communist death
You can't argue with this. It's pure stupidity. It's like someone taking off their pants and shitting on the table. How do you argue with it? Their mind is so filled with fallacies you can never hope to convince them of anything.

They say "capitalism killed more than communism", meaning that every death caused by poverty, in the entire world, in the history of mankind, is because of capitalism. Except here's the problem: capitalism doesn't cause poverty. Capitalism is nothing more than the voluntary trade between two people. In principle, if you don't want a good or a service, don't barter for it. If you can find an efficient way to trade something of yours for something of theirs, then everyone benefits.

Communism on the other hand, is firstly filled with fanatics who will murder everyone who stands against them; and secondly, is so inefficient that it causes poverty, by removing the natural ability of people to sustain themselves and trade efficiently. Communist countries inevitably fall into poverty and famine whenever they try to collectivize. The only solution is restoring capitalism to some degree.

Even if we went by the absurd bogus "Communist death" tolls and extrapolated to all the capitalist countries for the amount of time, it still wouldn't even come close. Watch towards the end of this video to see:

youtube.com/watch?v=QnIsdVaCnUE

why even make the argument that capitalism is evil because it kills people when communism *requires* massive death in order to be implemented and maintained? unless you think anyone who the party deems counter-revolutionary is deserving of death?

>korean war
norks started it

Maybe I chose the wording poorly, what I meant to say is, in every murder there was a personal choice involved. You can't just kill some bloke and then claim some book or manifesto made you do it, so in truth he was killed by "Alice in wonderland"

god i love bobbo

P.S. and if you point this out to them, they will claim it's because it wasn't true communism, that the USSR and China were socialist countries trying to become communist. Because communism never existed, it never killed anyone, so their death tolls actually belong to capitalism.

>nazis were not socialist because the people didn't own the means of production
Well then, why not use the anarchist flag instead of the soviet one? USSR and PRC were never "socialist" by that definition, either.

The Black Book has already been disproved for the nonsensical propaganda piece it is. USSR had constant population growth outside of WW2. They would have to have extremely high birth rates to offset the supposed millions upon millions of deaths to arrive at the same growth rate.

Explain that capitalism happens regardless.

Even in a controlled setting like a prison people trade cigarettes etc. and form hierarchies.

In every socialist country there is a black market for overseas goods or anything the government tries to regulate.

Capitalism is unstoppable.

Exactly.

LMAO. I love those sources.

>"Soviets never killed anyone! Trust me! The Soviets told me so!"

Defend Katyn you piece of shit

Under capitalism many die, few are killed, still fewer are jailed for violating the social contract.
Under communism many die, all are killed, some are gulag'd, and all for arbitrary reasons.

The death-toll, desu, is irrelevant. Collectivism is the embodiment of injustice.

Unfortunately that same conception of capitalism is rampant here as well. We really need to destroy teachers unions.

Communism murdered people by the millions, on purpose, amid a normality of maddening injustice and societal dysfunction. The people capitalism "killed" are literally everyone who would have died anyway, not counting the far greater numbers that would be deliberately murdered under communism, and not crediting the elimination of deaths through technology and prosperity.

Turk lad, coercion is the work of the anti-christ in whatever form it comes.

Ask them to prove it. They can't. The best they can do is come up with famines (e.g. Irish, Bengali) which had natural and/or external causes that the ruling authorities couldn't possibly have prevented. Also they count anyone not a Communist as a "capitalist" and ascribe all unusual death tolls to the latter

The funny thing is that communism more closely resembles a feudal state.

The USSR would never lie about its population (despite having lied about practically everything else)

Capitalist nations do not need barbed wire and mine fields to keep their people from leaving.

capitalism doesn't *cause* people to die, ineptitude and laziness does. Capitalism means if you don't provide a service people want, you die. It's fundamentally altruistic. Socialism is literally just theft.

>everyone ever killed for any reason in a not-comunistic system is capitalism's fault

>barbed wire and mine fields

N-no, user! Those are just "anti-fascist defence systems!" And if a few people get shot trying to leave the workers' paradise, well, just goes to show you how crazy they were.

It's not hard. Ask them for examples and see if they have anything to do with capitalism (they won't).

No one has ever climbed over walls and dodged bullets to escape a capitalist country to get to a communist one.

Look at it this way. A person refuses to work expecting government handouts, no one gives it to him, he starves to death. Could one say capitalism "killed" him?

>Starvation


Okay, let's see.
>man has farm
>man sells food
>nobody can buy food because everyone is poor
>man decreases prize of food to sell food
>food is cheaper

And that's why cost of living in Africa is lower then in Europe. KYS Commie faggot, all socialism does is make the farmer leave the country.

>65 million in China
>20 mil in Soviet Union
Literally not true

More like 45 million in China and 12+ million in the USSR, but still hardly a ringing endorsement of Communism

Did they really just blame Holodomor on capitalism.

Capitalism hasn't killed anywhere near as many people as communism did, so there's no point in arguing against it. Just state the facts.
Capitalism also produced Norman Borlaug, who's saved billions of lives in third world countries by revolutionizing agriculture.
Meanwhile, tens of millions of people were starved to death in the Soviet Union and Communist China.