Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of rebolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism aggording to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.
>Sdage four Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD
Ryder Butler
Kill yourselves
Hunter Thompson
go get hit by a car you useless spic faggot
Justin Nelson
No u
Nolan Rivera
The United States will be ours, and then the world.
Jaxon Peterson
>another thread with no discussion on economics
Brandon Long
Well start one then
Christian Gutierrez
Gulag for you neoliberal swine
Colton Gutierrez
I'm sorry, Austrian Schools feels>reals isn't taken seriously by anyone.
Luis Morgan
What is wrong with the LTV.
Non arguments:
>If I dig a hole in my backyard and then fill it in I used labor but made no value! Commies BTFO!
Marx clarified (unlike adam smith) that only socially nessary labor (labor used to produce a commodity with use value) creates value. This is also the case if you spend 1000 years making a bed.
>Nature can create value as well. If an apple falls from a tree then value is created without labor
Marx also noted nature could create value.
>if labor determines price why is coca cola cheaper than bottled water?
Labor doesn't determine price. It determines value (not exchange value or use value) and correlates with the equilibrium price. Supply and demand determine price.
Machines cannot create value. If I make a machine that makes diamonds out of thin air then the value of a diamond falls below that of bricks now that they can be aquired with no work what so ever. Price might not fall because you can still manipulate supply and demand but value certainly does.
Some definitions.
Use value = How useful an object is. Exchange value = Market value of a commidity. Different from use value. You can sell a beanie baby for 200$ but it is almost completely useless. Value = the amount of congealed labor withing a commodity.
Dizguss gommunism, or lebdisd bolitigs here. Agd remeber, alwags done id dobn whilbsd in da publig eye! :DDD
Resoursegs for newbiegs :D
Margs for beginners:DD >hddps://ia800204.us.argibe.org/1/idems/MargsForBeginners-English/margs_for_beginners.bdf
The Aggumuladion of Gabidal by Rosa Lugsemburgd:DDD >hddps://www.margsists.org/argibe/lugsemburg/1913/aggumuladion-gabidal/indegs.hdm
Guotations from Mao Dse Dung:DDDD >hddps://www.margsists.org/reference/archive/mao/worgs/red-book/ch01.hdm
The Gonquest of Bread, Gropodgin:D >hddp://dwardmac.pidzer.edu/Anargist_Argibes/gropodgin/gonguest/ch1.hdml
The Sdade and Reboludion, Lenid:DDD >hddps://www.margists.org/eboogs/lenid/sdade-and-reboludion.bdf
Gavin Hall
Kekd
Jason Wright
No, its the communism general
Jaxson Edwards
free speech was a mistake
Hunter Brooks
Given that communists are historically notorious for their lack of respect for property rights and self ownership and have been responsible for the greatest mass murders in recent human history, we can deduce that they do not apply rights such as self ownership to others or themselves. Furthermore this means that communists can not be considered moral agents one can not be considered a moral agent. If one does not have an ability to make a moral judgement. Since these moral relativists reject the notion of morality altogether we know they are incapable of acting in a moral fashion. In order for rights to exist between two or more beings there must exist some level of reciprocation of rights. Such is the minimum requirement for one to be considered a moral being. Communists are incapable of reciprocating rights as they do not believe such things exist. We can thus conclude that communists; being incapable of showing the characteristics of humanity, are therefore, for all intents and purposes, not human, and as such should be treated as dangerous primates and put down.
Cooper Richardson
Comrades we are winning, and it's all because of you.
Our shitposting is more effective than theirs, our discussions are deeper and more intelligent than theirs and our memes are superior, it's because of your efforts comrades, keep up the good work.
James Jenkins
>all these words just to say you want to kill commies
Jason Nguyen
>Marx clarified (unlike adam smith) that only socially nessary labor (labor used to produce a commodity with use value) creates value. This is also the case if you spend 1000 years making a bed. So be it. If I spend hours digging holes in my backyard with the most efficient methods, at the most efficient socially necessary manner, it would still be worthless if no consumer values it.
Seems like the labor theory of value misunderstands value at a fundamental level, and you are trying to prove it through a backwards analysis of the market; that is, just because products in a market need to be solve for a price higher than its costs, and more expensive products tend to be more costly, it by no means proves that value comes from cost. What defines whether a good is worth its costs is the pure arbitration of the consumer, that is what comes first in the process of arranging a market, the value and the costs are first defined by the consumer. You only get the measurement of the value and costs of labor after the consumer made his choice. You are trying to prove an Adam Smith theory that was already rejected 100 years ago.
Was your theory true, then it could be utilized in free enterprises to generate more profit, and the fact is, it is not. The marginal and subjective theory of value is used instead. Your theory of value was never made with the purpose to understand what value really is, but rather, to validate your political pursuits; that why it completely useless to any functional enterprise.
Brayden Ross
>not even attempting to so much as hint at anything being incorrect
Really makes u think.
Oliver Johnson
>communists lack respect for property rights
Oh really?! It's almost like we want everyone to own the means of production.
Christian Gutierrez
>Expecting a serious conversation with people he just called primates that he wants to kill I think you aren't being ironic, which is sad on so many levels
Michael Barnes
>we want everyone to own the means of production. That would be property rights. You want the property to be yours.
Worker owning property is not what communism is. You would have to be an idiot to think that communism is about you being allowed to plunder your workplace and you and your buddies to control the production of an entire commodity by yourselves. Society wouldn't function based on pure altruism, a coalition of workers monopolizing resources wouldn't just distribute free shit to 99% of the population which are not them. They would try to reduce their work and the amount of stuff they give, while trying to get more from others, because that would be their best interest.
Capitalism exists because people follow their own best interests. Were Stirner not moronized by marxian economics, it would be obvious to him. Such a "communist" system wouldn't be really communism, it would just be capitalism still, only difference is that there was some conflict and the owners of capital changed through the pillaging that occurred.
That's why the Orwellian type of communism is true communism. It is true abolition of property. When there's an absolutist state controlling everything, then there's truly no private property.
Leo Campbell
LTV doesn't explain market prices. It explains equilibrium prices. You are attacking a strawman.
Julian Wilson
Brazil is a failed socialist shithole. You didn't even debunk any of his arguments. I promptly suggest you get hit by a car and fuck off back to leftypol.
Jace Robinson
Someone butthurt? Lmfao
Logan Diaz
>Brazil >socialist
William Thomas
>being so mad about some rich fucks who never worked for their fortunes getting expropriated despite not even owning private property yourself
In socialism there is no commodity production. Mutualism isn't socialism.
Luke Ramirez
Every country in the world is socialist according to Sup Forums
Chase Gutierrez
Yes?
The socialist party has been in control there for decades. There are so many socialist policies in place like Venezuela. Latin America is the most socialist region on Earth. Only Chile is really capitalist.
Robert Nguyen
According to you, Norway must be full communism by now considering they have less of a private sector than Venezuela
Leo Scott
No because Norway's economy is one of the freest on Earth while Brazil and Venezuela are one of the lowest.
Logan Garcia
Why can't leftists agree on anything?
Isaac Hughes
>capitalism is not infallible, its destinied to fail >if everything had worked out perfectly, the Soviet Union wouldnt have collapsed and would be real communism, its the inevitable future >no communism not the collapsing you proles >hey Im making a serious argument here stop shitposting
Anthony Campbell
if you're talking about partido trabalhador they haven't been in power "for decades", they had the executive position from 2002-2014, and in any case a socialist party being in power doesn't make the economic system of the country socialist, especially since many "socialist" parties are infected with social democracy and even outright neoliberalism
>over 30% public sector employment >tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is 43.6%, eighth highest in the world what the fuck do you people even mean by economic freedom I don't understand cause the gubment does lots off stuff in Norway and that's usually what people point out as being the opposite of "economic freedom"
quit saying the Soviet Union "collapsed", it was undemocratically dissolved
John Wilson
The left is a broad spectrum, of course there are disagreements, same as on the right
Juan Clark
We can all agree on reactionaries being tossed into gulags.
Daniel Harris
Well, according to statistics and regulations, Venezuela has a more free economy than Norway. So you are either lying, talking out of ass, or have definition of economic freedom that is vastly different from most free market apologists.
Because we actually have convictions and are opinionated about our beliefs. Sure we might be sectarian sometimes but I don't see how not being a hivemind is an insult.
Juan Gutierrez
Brazil is very economically unfree and government interfence along with piss-poor private property rights and lack of free trade. The "socialism of the 21st century" is why it is in its current mess. You're an idiot if you think Brazil is an example of free market capitalism.
Norway ranks as one of the highest, Brazil as one of the lowest. Your shitty system fails again. LA is riddled with many failed socialist shitholes along with Africa.
First of all, the labor theory of value, is a theory of value. Not a theory of price equilibrium. Your theory of value has to actually explain value in its full functions, not just market equilibrium through a backwards descriptive analysis. You invented a strawman just so you could claim to be strawmanned. Market price equilibrium is where supply meets demand. Are you claiming that marx was just rewriting the theory of supply and demand now?
Second of all, this claim that the labor theory of value is in fact a theory of market equilibrium was already debunked by people like Carl Manger. Inputs are heterogeneous. There's no "socially necessary" rule when each input is analysed. In different goldmines, the socially necessary cost for each ounce of gold is completely different, yet, the price of gold is the same. There's no such thing as a socially necessary time to produce a good which will affect its value.
Here's an example: Imagine some deity of god from another dimension decided to prohibit sausages from being made by any worker who is not a professional surgeon, and they had to be done manually. What would happen? Would we pay thousands of bucks for each pack of sausage? No, what would actually happen, is that we would switch to an alternative, and never eat sausages at all. The social costs of making that sausage would have no impact on its value whatsoever, even in the "market equilibrium" price.
Hudson Flores
>implying a country having low "economic freedom" means that it isn't capitalist >implying that the Heritage ranking of economic freedom isn't garbage that uses non-economic factors and economic factors unrelated to "economic freedom" to rank countries the only socialist country in Latin America is Cuba and it has one of the highest standards of living in the region despite being terrorized by the most powerful nation on earth for half a century
Cooper Adams
>quite simple! all we need for communism to work out are utopian quasi omniscient and omnipotent supercomputers ruling over every aspect of life and utopian automation making absolutely everything and itself abundant >hey take this serious
Wyatt Smith
>heritage foundation Post a source that isn't a conservative think tank. Besides I never recall myself or any other communist advocating for social democracy. The only socialist country in Latin America is Cuba. But even then you argument is kinda shit, because Bolivia does rather well with the same policies.
Charles Cox
>watch videos of Venezuelans suffering Kek what the fuck do you commie fags have to o say about that
Dylan Evans
...
Joshua Young
even if Venezuela was socialist instead of just being a capitalist social democracy I don't see why the current crisis would be a condemnation of socialism as a whole, I mean millions of people starve to death under capitalism every year yet that doesn't seem to dissuade supporters of it
Lincoln Sullivan
>cuba is the only socialist country
Nah, so is Venezuela and Brazil retard. Government nationalizations, poor property rights, protectionist and no free trade policies, etc. All hall marks of a socialist economy. Those countries confiscated private property from wealthy people and companies for "DA PEOPLE."
Chile has the highest HDI and living standards. It's free market capitalist. Pound sand commie fuck.
Joseph Green
what if the world was communist
Ayden Brooks
And tens of millions more have starved under socialism
I'm not here to argue, just see what you delusional larpers have cooked up. You're not much better then fagbook posters
Joseph Nguyen
>First of all, the labor theory of value is a theory of value The other user defined what Marx meant by value. What is your definition? Are you claiming value equals the market price? >Market price equilibrium is where supply meets demand No. It's when supply and demand cancel each other out. It's a hypothetical scenario that is seldom reached in reality. The LTV wasn't supposed to explain market prices, it was supposed to explain the underlying motions of a capitalist economy, which are real, but aren't observed. As an example it's when 10 people want to eat exactly one can of stew every day, and the local store sells exactly 10 cans of stew every without overproduction of shortage. That's when supply and demand cancel each other out and it has yet to be explained why the can of stew costs what it costs. >In different goldmines, the socially necessary cost for each ounce of gold is completely different The socially necessary labor time for an ounce of gold would be the average between these two. >Imagine some deity of god from another dimension decided to prohibit sausages What you are talking about is a monopoly. Of course thay messes with the market price (which the LTV doesn't explain anyway).
Ian Nguyen
Both of their economies are characterized by private ownership over the means of production, wage labor, capital accumulation, and commodity production, that is capitalism, hell, Brazil has a higher rate of private sector employment than the United States
more people have starved to death under capitalism in the past 17 years than have in socialism's entire history
Ton of socialist policies. By your logic America is more socialist than Brazil. Fuck off commiecuck.
Camden Sullivan
>let me tell you about the struggles of the working class >yes im a NEET living in my mums basement and never worked before in my life >hey Im making a serious argument here
Justin Ward
Also most of brazils and venezuelas largest comoanies are state owned.
Aiden Perry
Socialism is when collective public ownership over the means of production is established and production for exchange is abolished and production for use is implemented. This is obviously very different from mere governmental redistribution systems which are usually known as social democracies. Also, I don't know if you have mental problems, but Veneuzuela hasn't even nationalized half the economy as it was pointed out a million times before. You can't just make up definitions and call everything you like capitalist and everything you dislike socialist, kid.
More people starved under capitalism within the last 10 years than under socialism, even if you assume those ridiculous invented numbers from the "Black Book of Communism" to be correct. It is very interesting to see that the last famine China and Russia had occurred under socialism, and then they never had a famine again while before they were a reoccurring thing every few decades. Really makes one think, huh?
Isaac Martinez
the figures for deaths by starvation tend to be around 25k a day, over 9 million a year, meaning that the amount of people who have starved to death in the 21st century would be somewhere around 150 million, and considering that the vast majority of countries on earth are capitalist and the total population of all non-capitalist countries would be much less than 150 million the vast majority of these deaths necessarily occur in capitalist countries
>ton of socialist policies What does that mean? The gubment doing stuff != socialism, if the economy is characterized by private property, wage labor, capital accumulation, and commodity production, it is capitalism
Kayden Smith
The author is same guy that does this Heritage Foundation shit. Anyway, I don't really think I want to engage with somebody who unironically thinks Brazil is socialist. I think anybody who says that has already ousted himself as a illiterate retard.
Alexander Bennett
Failed ideology general. Always collapses or goes back to capitalism in the end.
Many African countries are collapsed ex-marxist shitholes. Somalia, Ethiopia, Angola, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, etc.
Oliver Hughes
>Many African countries are collapsed ex-marxist shitholes >ex-marxist shitholes >ex
William Cruz
What do you think about the fact that Communism is Jewish?
Luis Jackson
I don't care and in any case Engels wasn't Jewish
Gabriel Smith
Funny how you leave out Burkina Faso with Thomas Sankara who, unlike the other populist countries you mentioned, was an actual Marxist who eventually got killed by mercenaries backed by the French as his policies were actually improving shit. Ideological selective reading at its best.
To claim that socialism is at fault for Africa's misery is quite a fantastic claim. Two billion dollars get invested into Africa ever year, and over three billion get extracted out of Africa every year by foreign investors. How the fuck is that even closely related to socialism?
Mason Moore
>killing is okay because of wrongthink
Xavier Myers
I don't give a shit since barely any communist ever actually identified as an adherent of Judaism. Marx himself wrote a book about the Jewish question and called Lasalle a Jewish nigger.
Parker Jenkins
Communism requires people to act like people will never act. This is true of all communism. Stalinism or northern Scandinavian socialist democracy is the best it will ever be. These are worse than a propertarian or right leaning paternalist government.
Elijah Myers
>tfw fascists are impotently trying to be edgy in order to rile you up but you grew out of that stage years ago since you're older than 15
Cameron Harris
>m-muh property rights
Xavier Morgan
>Communism requires people to act like people will never act >muh benevolent corporate oligarchy tho
Carson Green
>I don't care >I don't give a shit So you have no problem with your ideology being of and for the Jews?
Clearly you haven't been on Sup Forums long...
>and in any case Engels wasn't Jewish But Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and 80%+ of the first soviet government was Jewish.
>a shit since barely any communist ever actually identified as an adherent of Judaism. But Jews are a race...
>Marx himself wrote a book about the Jewish question and called Lasalle a Jewish nigger. But Communism is inherently Jewish. If you want to see a real-world ideology that reflects the beliefs of the Jews, you follow communism.
Joshua Carter
fighting the good fight, user
Adrian Harris
How does it feel to know we're winning? Are you rustled? Are you crying?
But no really. How does it feel to see the long plan staged by communists coming apart after decades of careful manipulation and hard work. To snatch defeat from the jaws of victory takes a very special kind of incompetence.
Landon Baker
Yep, collapsed shitholes. Siad Barre comes to mind for example in Somalia.
Oh I had no idea about Burkina Faso. Add another one to that list.
Want a decent African county? Botswana. Freest economy in the continent, highest living standards. You are blaming malnutrition on capitalism in Africa when many of those countries are collapsrd socialist shitholes. Datgs from starvation in Africa now are less than they were 40 years ago, the height of this shitty Marxist craze.
Your ideology is so fucking shit and has never worked.
Leo Butler
>Heritage.org
Ayden Lopez
>Make shit up >Use Russia and China as an example Fail lel
>Using total starvation numbers >pull out of my ass that they all occur in capitalist countries You're argument has no basis in reality friendo
Christian Powell
deaths*
Grayson Cook
>you're wrong because i want you to be dot txt
wew
Ryder Cruz
afaik Lenin didn't even know he had Jewish ancestry and the "Jewish Bolshevism" nonsense is bullshit
yeah I'm sure all of those people are starving in Cuba and the DPRK which have a combined population of like 40 million
Carter Ross
>How does it feel to know we're winning? Holy shit the delusion
Ryder Richardson
>but Jews are a race So? Does your fucking haplogroup predetermines you being part of a hivemind? Do you even realize what you are actually saying? >communism is inherently Jewish >an ideology that wants to abolish money is inherently advantageous to a group that bases its economic success on usury Yeah you gotta explain why
Nathan Richardson
You guys are using ISIS tactics and drive cars into civilians you absolute anti-social morons
Bentley Young
Apparently a government that claims to be communist while following virtually no Marxist-Leninist policies is still socialist, as is a civil-war-torn state where one of the factions is communist.
Cameron Anderson
How does the labor theory of value supposedly explains the underlying motions of a capitalist economy if you cannot in fact utilized this same theory in productive means in a capitalist economy? This is like a flat earther claiming his has insights on how celestial bodies move.
Cambodia makes shirts, correct? The United States also makes some shirts, correct? In Cambodia, due to the low intelligence and entrepreneurship of the population, each shirt costs ten times more socially necessary labor then in the US. So, that means, of course, that if we close the Cambodian economy and isolate it, their shirts would have more value to them then before. Right? Value would increase precisely because now, on average, it is more difficult to produce something. Right?
>As an example it's when 10 people want to eat exactly one can of stew every day, and the local store sells exactly 10 cans of stew every without overproduction of shortage. That's when supply and demand cancel each other out and it has yet to be explained why the can of stew costs what it costs. That's hilariously. You are literally too ignorant to even be discussing anything about economics.
You are comparable to a flat earther. You make grandiose claims of an immense insight which would be historical for anyone who can apply said knowledge, yet, you sit on an obscure corner of the internet, probably in your moms house, making things up to defend it, as opposed to getting a nobel prize and being known in history. Could it be because your theories don't actually apply to the real world?
Chase Rogers
They're wrong because there arguments make no sense, the first nigger said that reported deaths from socialism is a lie which is holohoax level conspitard shit.
Then this other nigger cannot comprehend that if the majority of the world is capitalist, capitalism is the blame for starvation. Since we're just assuming.and not using facts, Ill say all those starvations occurred in non capitalist countries.
Kevin Thomas
>Ill say all those starvations occurred in non capitalist countries you do realize this is literally impossible, right?
David Bailey
>add another one to that list Burkina Faso was better off under socialism you moron. Point me to an African shithole that is marxist today or fuck off. >socialism has never worked Yeah I'm sure lifting a feudal peasent state up to a modern superpower with the second highest average living standard in the world that brought humanity into space within 30 years despite having to fight a genocidal war constitutes as "not working". Cry more.
Tyler Smith
So if those are the only 2 socialist places then they're really bad examples
When are you going to prove communism is a good thing?
Jose Watson
>afaik Lenin didn't even know he had Jewish ancestry Well the thing about Jews is that they have nation wrecking in their DNA.
>and the "Jewish Bolshevism" nonsense is bullshit Nope.
>So? Does your fucking haplogroup predetermines you being part of a hivemind? With Jews it does. Again, nation wrecking is in their DNA.
>Do you even realize what you are actually saying? Jews are inherently anti-White.
>Yeah you gotta explain why Because Communism is about having the jews control the goyim.
Michael Perez
A few years ago that crowd would never have formed and nobody dared utter anything about protecting themselves from the foreign hordes you've been importing to try and dismantle our cultures.
Now they're out on the streets.
Your strategy has ultimately led to our resurgence. Just as the capitalist creates his own enemies, so too does the commie. Don't worry, we'll kill porky since porky is inevitably jewish.
Civilians? There were no civilians. Only commies. Besides it seems they attacked the car first. Guess they ran out of bins to tip over.
Brandon Garcia
Obviously. Let's say the majority. Blow my mind kid
Thomas Taylor
hello gomrade :DDDD
Joseph Smith
Ha ha ha, Communism on Pol.
With freak shows like this on your side (pic related), how can you lose? Keep sending more failed Art Students.
Liam Evans
>Now they're out on the streets. You got ran out of town and next time it will be worse for you idiots
Brody Rivera
>was better off under socialism
Link a study right now moron. Not libcom shit. I just gave you one for Somalia.
>muh ussr success
The USSR was so fucking backwards and poor compared to the rest of the capitalist west. Living standards lagged decades behind the west. It collapsed spectacularly after being in economic stagnation for decades. China got hundreds of millions out of poverty when Deng Xiaoping switched the economy to a capitalist one.
Africa is riddled with failed ex-marxist countries. I just gave you multiple examples. Deaths from starvation and disease declines every year. Botswana is the best country in the region, has the freest econony and is capitalist as fuck.
Sebastian Richardson
You got run over like bitches and one of you died. The police pushed the right-wing out, not antifa retards.
Go be roadkill elsewhere retarded leftypol faggot.
Henry Ross
Yes. Please by all means. The more violent you get at the behest of your jewish masters the more people flock to our cause. The more you oppress us the more our numbers swell.
We feed on your natural inclination to oppression and stagnancy.
The more subhumans you push into our homes the more the people come to hate you. Keep it up, you're doing our job for us
Andrew Rivera
Not an argument. Your 'movement' had little support before this rally and almost none now, outside of internet nazis.
You bussed in loads of these people from all round the country and were still outnumbered by local protesters. The people don't want you
