US military action in Venezuela

Would you support the US to take military action in Venezuela?

strawpoll.me/13706649

No. Latin America is our backyard.

Why? Has Venezuela asked for our help?

I was in Sau Paulo yesterday. I've never been in a major city that had so many horrible smells as you drive inward, ranging from raw sewage to things I never thought about. And mind you I grew up near enough to know about NYC in the 80s.

Trump stated that a militaristic option to deal venezuela should they start to comit human rights violations againts their people.

I meant that a militaristic option to deal with venezuela is not off the table

The Jewish Neocon Trostkyite Communist Responsibility to Protect doctrine is what got us all this mess in the ME.

I hope Trump treads very carefully here.

Yeah big cities have little planning and excessive population.

We should invade DC instead

It's only because I flew in there. The countryside was beautiful (or about as beautiful as it can be during the dry season) and the people were lovely even though it seems you guys have an obesity problem kind of all your own even if you don't see quite the excesses of the US.

I think though that you'll need to plan a bit carefully to avoid future factories belching black smoke into the air. I'm no greenie weenie, but that's going to bite you in the ass if you don't get out in front of it. Also lol at all the fires. wtf.

Absolutely not. Typical of the American to think that it is their responsibility to police the world in accordance to their own ideals. No, I do not support what is happening in Venezuela, however that does not grant foreign nations legitimacy to to use military action, unless of course it directly affects them in a way which would be detrimental to their own well being.

At least we don't have genocidal war criminal Samantha Power representing us at the UN anymore. Also genocidal war criminals Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton, Ben Rohdes, and Victoria Nuland are all out as well. I look forward to the war crimes tribunals so we can determine whether they should be hanged or imprisoned or what.

But it's hard to be optimistic about Nikki Haley having a sturdy temperament when it comes to avoiding UN calls for interventionism. The Neocons are trying to corner Trump on every front.

NO
I voted for Trump
I voted for him to keep us out of wars
I voted for him to be smarter than the globalist assholes
now Obama is flying around stirring shit up to get Trump in big trouble
Trump can't see it, he's being retarded.

STAY OUT OF THE WARS

with exception of North Korea,
they do need to be dealt with.

But what if the venezualan government starts to use weapons againts their own people? Not just the ones roiting but the ones the expect might roit.

congratulations you're a fucking retard and you got conned by a dickless loser congratulations

To what end would we intervene? Install UN peacekeeping forces so they can rape and pilliage? Have Coca Cola and Goldman Sachs and the IMF take over?

Wars are easy to start. Much harder to finish. And if you jump directly to a """"kinetic action"""" you're a failure of a leader. What Trump needs on this one is to get a little advice from Putin's strategists about how to avoid getting baited into a mess while deftly cockblocking and profiting.

Nope. Wouldn't care to lose money and lives on socialist shitskins. Let them have a 3rd world venezuela. NK on the other hand, war now.

And what happens when the cia becomes secretly involved? Look at the middle east and how we secretly armed isis or operation fast and furious. That same thing is likely to happen there too.

Africa has been mistreating it's people for decades, what did we do there? It has nothing to do with human rights, it has to do with war and greed.

But UN peacekeepers have been active in Africa though trying to help the people there and keep the peace.

Yep. Same with Viet Nam. The CIA is likely to go in, mess around for a while, and then eventually fuck it up and blame it on the military like usual. This is documented early on in, "The Secret Team" by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty -- very, very good read even if you only do the foreword or the first few chapters.

So what do we do about it? We keep a watch on the situation and expose shenanigans. Outright military action I don't think is going to do anything much better when a plan and an invitation is so conspicuously absent.

Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to get much into politics while I was in Brazil. Didn't have much time to develop real nigga hours discussions, but it was pretty clear from surface conversations and a small amount of TV watching that there is at least a building underlying concern about Venezuela, so I would suggest that any US action be predicated on the mediation of regional allies such as Brazil. International relations generally recognize that it is reasonable for a country to intervene when a bordering country is destabilized; but the US does not border Venezuela, so it should not do anything uninvited unless regional chaos develops to the point that an international debate and coalition becomes reality.

We should stay out.

Why should American taxpayer dollars be spent for some South American hellhole?

Yes. Someone has got to do something and unfortunately the absolute faggots in our government don't want to, and even if they wanted we'd have no money.
Too bad any pretense we're south america's leaders will die tho (at least there's no leader, only a bunch of faggots and the US up north)

Fuck no. You can't kill people into making good choices.

Plz come back Pino my dear, commie removal has never been more needed before

Monroe doctrine faggot. No one else comes in this hemisphere but Americans pick up the responsibility to keep the peace. Having another Cuba right next to the Panama channel is against the american interest, as is the increased presence of iranian and hezbollah actors in the region

Yup. We need some areas there for strategic reasons. Can't have them Chinese subs sneaking up though central America waters again...
This is nothing new. All this shit was set in motion like 15 years ago when a Chinese nuclear-capable sub popped up in a couple of our ports undetected to send us a message. They showed us our weakness and we've been trying to cover the hole since..

Because military action in Venezula might be enough for trump to convince the US to move away from military action in the middle east and in syria to focus on Venezula. Venezula liberated, US out of middle east, US looks stronk again

Good thing we basically gave the Panama Canal away to the Chinese.

Use militaristic operations and strikes on the communists, take a solid percentage of their resources. Introduce capitalism in a resource rich environment. Venezuela and USA benefit. Trump wins 2020. To be continued.

>Would you support the US to take military action in Venezuela?
No. If Venezuelans won't fight for their own freedom they don't deserve it.

They deserve what's coming to them for electing a socialist government.

As long as it results in dead commies it's fine with me.

It'd be very easy to finish in Venezuela. This isn't the middle east

The legislative and parts of the judiciary are already against the executive, as are factions of the army and the president's cabinet.

80% of the people are against the government, all their allies in the region are out of power right now, american enemies have a large presence in Venezuela, a good source of oil, strategically close to the panama channel and in a continent (and hemisphere) so far free of this much foreign influence by american enemies, the bad parts of governments are all connected to drug cartels in central america and terrorists in North Africa which are american enemies, some even in jail or with a warrant for them in the US.

The police and military are unmotivated and barely have what to eat, the US has a large presence in Colombia, it's greatest ally and base of operations, and there are french, dutch and english territories nearby, and the US doesn't want any of these forces meddling in their continent, which they might do in the future if the government threatens their interests (they openly do).

There's not much to lose, but I do agree fucking the cuban government is a bigger priority

What government is going to take control of Venezuela? If there is no government to take control, then it's useless for the US to back a coup or an election process or whatever.

that's true too
this, Chyna is getting involved everywhere trying to increase their sphere of influence. They even want to build a canal in Nicaragua to cuck Panama

The legislative. With new elections they easily win a majority and the presidency (which they would have won last time if not for fraud in their electronic voting machines).

This isn't the middle east where the government is basically a family that rules everything with their ethnic/religious group.

Venezuela has the trappings of all democracy, and can work as a (failed, but existing) one as it did so far.

It isn't a """democracy""" like Russia or even chinese-tier

seems a little harsh, socialists are a sneaky bunch

also this is what venezuelan soldiers got for turning against their fellow man, I almost feel bad for them

Who is the Venezuelan Pinochet? Also the CIA had the Chilean Supreme Court to fall back on.

some of the rebelling soldiers said they manage to steal rifles from a base, but we all know they ain't gonna find a bunch of guns to sustain a civil war with no foreign backing, and Colombia is too poor to arm them all

So what's your plan then? Facilitate some sort of arrest and indictment process to pave the way for the legislative branch to call new elections?

That doesn't sound to me like it should require foreign military intervention and occupation as the first step or anything.

>(pic)
Fucking disgraceful.

Totally, I hope Chile helps

No more oil wars neoconnigger

We should be doings this things not them.

Our troops are way more bored.

Don't think they ever had one. No one ruled for so much time as Pinochet there, and they had a bunch of different caudillos and military presidents.

The closest thing would be Marcos Pérez Jiménez I guess, but he only ruled from 52 to 58

There is oil in Venezuela, it's a hell of a good deal

No
gtfo with your military intvs

We would only inherit oil and poverty, and we are not used to deal with oil.

They have stepped on snek too many times

Last time I heard, the US government was negotiating with some top generals to betray Maduro and let order be restored if charges of drug-trafficking were dropped.

That would be the easier solution, and it's what's being pursued right now methinks.

But there are risks, cause some ministers and generals are too far gone and would not get out without being lynched after this.

But the Maduro regime isn't this strong. Even a serious threat of invasion (with some boats near the country for optics) would make people in power want to rebel and cuck maduro out of power.

The real problem isn't even the military, since it'd probably split, it's the colectivos (militia armed by the government, partially with weapons they stole from the people when they disarmed them) and foreign elements (AKA cubans, some reports say there are thousands of them there). But the collectivos are poorly trained (basically peasants on gibs who got guns from the government and other such retards), and I don't think there are enough cubans to fight if the military turns against them

I think an US intervention would end like the ECOWAS intervention in the Gambia or operation powerpack, with people deciding it's not worth it to die to save a shitty leader and the leader trying to fuck off the country

No.

why, don't you wanna kill some commies?

that's true of the people who initially voted them in, but at least the last election was very likely a fraud, and you must remember there are people there (likely a large % of the ones protesting) that were already born After Chavez initially came to power, and that last election was won by less than 1%

Realistic speaking, Id rather have US waiting until 2019.

Finally we got a right wing presidential with chances of winning for the first time in 30 years and Im afraid a military conflict could chance his image (right winger war monger image the media will portray).

After january of 2018, fuck it. If you need the entire south side burned to the ground, just give us a call.

CIA needs to create one then. The resources there as well as the opportunity for a prosperous quality of life for the Venezuelans requires this. Technology/understanding history is at a point where the cycle of democracy-dictatorship-military dictatorship-ect... transcends that crap.

You think Bolsonaro could win? I would want Joao Doria

Thanks famalingodingo

no let them self implode as an example to everyone else loving socialism

No, I want to operate clearly invited proxy support and/or diplomatic mediation for regional powers to take the first whack at settling their own problems in their own back yard.

I do not want to hastily encourage a neocon takeover and subsequent globalist oil exploitation. This is an excellent opportunity for the Trump administration to demonstrate a shift in course from the neocon version of American Primacy as a Grand Strategy.

No, every time the US intervenes another country because muh democracy, they only manage to fuck things up even harder.

This. We aren't talking about some bottom to top restructuring we are talking about making the post popular political coalition the government. The Venezuelans would thank us.

Think less Iraq and more Panama or Grenada. They need our help and the people want it.

Culture takes precedent over free market.

Right now we need a shock of reality. Calm down the homicide rate that didnt stop rising since the leftists took our guns away 10 years ago.

Also, to send a message that the right in latin america is finally rising.

After that, capitalism will follow. But nobody will invest in a country that can't meet the most basic of its expectations.

I doubt that a full regime change would be in order. It would be the opposite of what Trump campaigned on and would be unpopular in both the US and VZ, not to mention it is totally unnecessary.

No. We should just let them be.

Chile can't take Venezuela alone, especially if their army doesn't divide and stays united with him.

Unless you invade via Colombia, you'd need to invade by hte sea, and it's very hard to invade countries like this. These operations are hard even for the US to organize.

The best option, I think, would be to have a SADC (south american defense council, it's shit but I'll use this name as an ex) mission from Colombia (headed by Colombia or Brazil, since they're the neighbors), or maybe using ports from Guyana. Every country in south america could contribute a few troops, to make it less costly and share the burden, since even tho I think they'd just give up and collapse, who knows, and it's not like any army in south america has a lot of experience fighting expeditionary wars, or officers suited to lead operations like this.

The second best option would be an inter-american peace force, like the one used in Panama in the 60s. It's worse cause it gets extra-continental forces involved, but it'd be far more efficient, especially if the US participates.

In this case people wouldn't even try fighting, because they aren't retarded and aren't durka-durka-tier suicidal.

The US could launch a sea invasion from Puerto Rico, quickly take control of Caracas and depose Maduro.

It'd be a good BF:BC2 mod, I think.

Then forces from south america would likely stay there as peacekeepers.

The problem comes after this, when the black markets get a fuckload of venezuelan guns and some former thugs and militias decide to become drug dealers, but I guess drug-dealing gangs are better than a drug-dealing government

It can't be that hard.

Besides if we are just gonna put boots on the ground it's nice to make it for a good cause.

No, because America first.

Doria is a globalist faggot who'd 100% be as pussified as the current government. Don't expect any intervention from him

I'm not advocating for full regime change any more than I'm advocating for military intervention (both are almost equivalent under neocon thought structures.) What I am looking for is making a show of taking a different approach to """humanitarian crises."""

If Venezuela and/or its neighbors want to invite help to sort things out in a way that makes sense, then I have no problem with the US or the """International Community""" lending a proxy hand. It's all well and good for Trump to indicate that no options are off the table, but the key to carrying a big stick is to begin by speaking softly.

regional powers are all broke and unwilling to contribute, currently.

The ones who woul be willing to do so have no money, unfit militaries (like Argentina, sorry but they're not fit for any invasion, especially over a large distance like this) or are simply too weak (Peru), and the ones who could do a little more are either broke and unwilling (Brazil) or too full of their own problems and not sufficiently strong (colombia)

ITT: Neocon world-police

it isn't regime change, it's literally "upholding democracy" and shit. They signed agreements the US could invoke in this situation. They'd be seen more like liberators, and it'd be very cheap, almost an upbeat action when compared to the shitshow the middle east is

Sure no one would MVGA, I think they'll stay fucked for a while, but at least they'd manage to kick out foreign communists and vote for a new government

Fine. The point is let them have the first shot at taking the lead on what to do. I don't mean the Obama "Lead from Behind" strategy where the US strong arms the world in to making it look like the US isn't acting like global dictator.

I mean let fucked up countries / regions sort themselves out, and if they want to ask for help in a way that makes sense and where the US gets something out of the deal then that's fine. Monroe Doctrine is reasonable. It's in the US's interests to avoid a failed state. But that doesn't mean the US should unilaterally sweep in and LIBERATE.

Bring it on fags.

Prettty much everybody wants an intervention, we know there's literally no other way out the oposition betrayed us and aren't willing to do anything since they're secretly working with the government. Invade us now.

In all honesty, I would not want to fight them.

Fighting in the jungle is the most difficult kind of scenario you can have at your hands. IFVs get stuck all the time in non paved roads.

Tanks are slowed down.

The morale decreases faster than in other scenarios. On top of that Venezuela is loaded on MANPADS and those jets of them could easily fuck our shitty F5s even if using AWACS to pinpoint their locations.

And without air superiority, ground troops dont stand a chance.

Also, imagine guerrileros dressed as civilians everywhere. Each one with an AK and the will to defend comunism.

Carpet bombing the country with white phosphorous would be more humane than send soldiers to kill each other in an almost trench-like war scenario.

If you're really from there, is it as bad there as it looks like from the protest videos or are the protests far and few between?

the US has been involved in latin america far before any neocon's ancestors even left europe fleeing pogroms

It's been US policy to keep the order and kick out foreign agents (especially near the panama channel) since 1817 at least
I don't think it'd be unilateral in the scenario I envision. At least Colombia, Peru, Panama would always support the US 100%. Guiana has every reason not to want Venezuela to go full-Cuba too (Venezuela claims to own half of their land).
Some actors in the region are already trying things like this, but Brazil especially is cucking everything. Maybe after the elections next year, but not before.
The OAS has been surprisingly OK, being that they'dre led by socialist cucks too, and so far only Bolivia/Uruguay-tier countries still support Maduro.
I think Colombia has elections next year too, and it's possible (even probable) that an uribist may come back to power there, and they're the most hardcore anti-commies in south america, but have to deal with internal problems.

Until then, venezuelans are fucked unless Trump manages to strike a deal with some people in government, probably with the military (which as you may have guessed is the least anti-commie in the region)

>cuban run military dictatorship

desu nuking havana would cut to the chase much quicker, you have no idea how far the eternal fidel's tentacles reach

>Would you support the US to take military action in Venezuela
No

No. Let them starve and be seen as a lesson to the other South American countries.

No. US should stop fucking with other countries bussiness. It is up to Venezuelans to purge socialits or die starving.

Doria is retard a brazilian Macron Bolsonaro is the best choice

If we invaded from Brazil, they might have to cross the jungle, but most of the fighting would be in the cities, especially Caracas, not the jungle.

And of course everything I'm saying takes into consideration that their army isn't so loyal and there's a huge anti-regime faction in the country, both among the people and in the military.

If they stay loyal it gets more complicated, indeed.

From brazil we only have 1 road that connects us to Venezuela, and it's very shitty. We have a savanna in the east but it doesn't go as far as the coast and mountains, where the people leave, so a land invasion would have to start in Colombia.

A sea-based invasion would take more time, since we'd have to take ships from Rio (probably) and use ports in Guiana or Colombia (if they have them).

I imagine we could use our airports for airstrikes and anti-insurgent operations, but if their airforce remains loyal they'd be a huge pain.

I don't imagine it will happen, but it could. One advantage is that their military is as lacking in experience as ours (even worse, cause at least we led some peacekeeping missions and train more), and part of the leadership was chosen not based on how good they are, but on how likely they were not to betray the government.

And we have toilet paper.

We never did any operation like this tho. The closest was operation traíra in the 90s, but that was against FARC rebels, not an actual army. It was a success however,
would spaniards go full-1930s and send Podemos cucks and nationalists to fuck things up?

52th state when

Never.

>tfw Venezuelans would still vote for Bernie

Burgers better not do this

Fuck bernie, I'd vote trump all day

Poor areas are kinda bad, but they've always been bad so whatever. I live in the capital and there's no protests anymore. Everybody gave up and everything went back to normal after the oposition decided to accept the fraudulent results from the constituyente.

Our every adventure elsewhere has backfired? Why would this time be different?

Take la guaira port and puerto cabello at the same tine, then make your way up to caracas from la guaria and to valencia/maracay fron puerto cabello port. Once you take those targets its done, the rest will surrender in seconds. There's no point in crossing the whole amazon to take the main targets in the Caribbean coast

Cause we close af and you'd just have to take targets that are really close to the coast.

(((CIA))) shit
no thanks, not ever

PR isn't going to be a state. Canada will never be a territory. What makes you think Venezuela has any chance of being more than some kind of puppet or sort-of colony?

Hey, anythings better than communism.

I mean it.

Yes, the problem is just getting the ships there in the first place. I have to check, but we don't have many ships fit for this kind of invasion, our aircraft carrier was deactivated, and it's very far away (our good ships are all in the southeast, the northeast has mainly patrol and search-and-rescue stuff, and the north boats fit for river opereations, not sea operations).

I guess since we manage to send ships to Lebanon we could probably take them there.

Not our problem
Venezuela should solve their own problems
We don't have any economic interests there, save for (((oil)))

It would be the right thing to do but America still shouldn't do it because Latin America should go through this pain alone.
A hard won victory over dictatorship is more valued in the long term and will transform Latin America for good.
Big Daddy should stop spoiling the little brats and let them toughen up! It'll be better this way for everyone.

Well, you say you would vote Trump all day. Step one is to fix Venezuela. Ain't no way the US wants to take on a failed nation. We don't even want bankrupt PR.

But, you know, if you want to use the internet to demonstrate mass popular support for some kind of intervention to help get Venezuela fixed then by all means go right ahead. As suggested above, you'll need to put out documentary evidence to both outrage people and demonstrate fraud, crimes, the real troofs, etc.