There is a lot of criticism of communism on the board...

There is a lot of criticism of communism on the board, but an argument could be made that communism has never been implemented correctly. For example Stalin operated under a banner of communism when in reality he was using that as only an object to forward his own agenda. Even Lenin said that Marx's vision had never been tried, and that it needed to be forced. I dunno, thoughts?

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Real fascism was never tried.

"real" communism doesn't happen because it's an evil system based on theft, and the people who implement it are immoral corrupted people

Marxism is a philosophy, he never really wrote the political side of how to implement it. The aim is to keep adjusting until you get it right.

Communism is always used as an object to forward ones own agenda which is why it never works you think giving that much power and money to the government will ever end well?

Capitalism is the system based on theft. Communism wants to eliminate exploitation as much as possible. Its the entire goal.

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Thats a big problem that Marxists shouldn't pretend doesn't exist at all. That doesn't mean its impossible to achieve without power corruption.

horseshoe theory is intellectual laziness

and yes communism has never truly materialized because power corrupts

just like those faggot "free markets" are a utopian ideal

The adjustment process always leads to corruption.

Isn't it fair to say that every pursuit of communism has led to utter failure and misery?

It is isn't theft to want to enjoy the fruits of your own labour it is theft to say you want someone elses money just because they have more than you

I wonder why the final step of the temporary government leading the workers revolution never actually passes the power to the workers and actively tries to maintain it's own power...

Communism can only exist in a post scarcity society which hasn't existed.

Who steals from who in a voluntary exchange?

If you can make people to be able to live without food or desires then you could theoretically make communism work, until humans are not part of the equation it will never work.

This post keeps coming back like herpes

Yeah its a problem. I don't think its impossible though. The early 20th century was a very different time

fpbp

also

>88

no

Actual quote from leftist discussion board

Both fascism and communism are impossible to implement because they are fundamentally anti-materialist. By attempting to institutionalise them, they become empty ideology that inevitably become caricatures of the spiritual principles underlying them

Absolute power corrupts absolutely commiebro

>someone risked his own wealth, paid me for my labor and I willingly purchased the goods. It's theft!

Fucking leftists

Its more like you voluntarily exchange to be ripped off because you aren't left with any alternative.

There is no saying people can't be richer than others under communism. The aim is just to reduce the class gap. If you want to become rich you have to work, there is just no other way.

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>but an argument could be made that communism has never been implemented correctly.

Aaaaaaaaand the retarded meme becomes real once more due to edgy teenagers.

"Only one more horrific murder to go then we get 'real Communism' !!" - Literally Every Communist Ever

All communism is real communism when it fucking calls itself communism you fucking communist.

Is it your position that communism is the only way to prevent monopolies?

peaceful revolution is impossible. look at the blood that was shed to form your own country

all wrong takes so far itt

communism hasn't "failed"
what's happened is that communism has been tried in isolated instances
no country can survive on its own, for the simple reason that natural resources are not uniformly distributed: I don't give a shit which system ur trying to implement, u need to get stuff from other places (at least in industrial society)

here's a mental excersise: try to think of the reverse -- a sparse amount of capitalist states, distributed across the globe, with the vast majority of the world operating under communist principles, and of course embargoing the capitalist states. try to imagine the outcome of this scenario

I honest to God want to round up all people like you in a big cage and do this:
liveleak.com/view?i=4ff_1447592759

yes this is a good point

communism = nazism = capitalism = jew tools

the problem is not that it wasn't implemented, but that it (or any other system) will never be allowed to be implemented in a way that promotes humanity and goes against the jewry.

How do you reduce the pay gap without stealing from the rich?

>The system entirely based off of mutual agreement between individuals is non-mutually agreeable.

But the only way to get ahead in attempted communist societies was to work for the government which was why every other person in the USSR was an informant responnsible for carting off their neighbours to gulag for "betraying the revolution"

who said anything about not "stealing" from the rich?

>The aim is to reduce the pay gap
Explain how this is done?

>the aim is to try again until billions rather than millions of farmers are robbed a la repeatedly failed shit ideology to feed useless subhuman parasites like me
Fuck off

Capitalist state have always allocated resources most efficently. The problem with communism is the inefficient allocation of resources. Even if the scenario you describe the market economy of those countries would adapt. Communism doesn't. Chances are the majority of the world that is communist would become breadlines and the capitalist countries would have stocked supermarkets. There is no evidence to the contrary. During the Soviet reign of east Europe there were famines and starvation even though much of the territory was fertile land.

Capitalists are the enemy is Communism the solution?
Lets find out

true fascism has never been tried, because bankers always tried to destroy it... nothing is as bad for bankers as a bunch of countries not giving a toss about your international loans or fiat currencies

How does capitalism allocate resources more efficiently?

diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism


diffen.com/difference/Fascism_vs_Socialism

Billionaires don't make their money through hard work. They deserve to be rich in many cases but after a while they are just making millions sitting on capital. By removing being able to exploit capital for wealth naturally there won't be as big of a class gap

There it is.
Kill yourself you commie fucker.

not the only way. monopolies can also be a good thing in some cases but if they remove competition completely they won't be pressured to change for the better

yes good goy...protect your jewish overlords

>2017
>ppl still fall for the commie meme
LMFAO

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Elastic supply and demand. The value of resources is based off the demand for them. It's to the benefit of the business owner to find the most efficient way to distribute the goods otherwise they will lose to competition.

Antifa Conquers Hennepin County with the Same Flag 1932 German Communist Party Used:

Antifa has conquered Hennepin County. They raised the flag of the violent leftist group over Hennepin County jail and in front of the county center. For those who are unaware, it happens to be a duplicate of the flag used by the German Communist Party in 1932. We’re sure our honest media will get right on that.

About 100 Antifa stormed a county building, took down the Hennepin County flag, burned it and replaced it with their Antifa flag. They cheered as it was raised.

They had been marching around Minneapolis and wound up at the county buildings.A spokeswoman for the country confirmed the incident for CNS News.

We checked, no one was arrested or held accountable in any way. Perhaps they didn’t know who did it.

One of our readers, Zigmont, found out this next bit of information.

THE ANTIFA FLAG IS THE GERMAN COMMUNIST PARTY FLAG of 1932

The Antifa flag matches that of the paramilitary flag of the German Communist party in 1932. How appropriate.

First up is the German Communist flag. Check out the Antifa flag which follows.

Antifa_Her_zu_uns.svg

Next up is the Antifa flag. For those who are interested, they are sold at Amazon and E-bay. You will not find a confederate flag there however.

Related

marx himself agreed that this would not work

Tell me what you want to do as a communist, how is it good.

Your criticism of capitalism was identifying monopolies as theft, so you're really not presenting a consistent argument

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>By sitting on capital
They don't make any money by just having it in their possession, they have to invest it in others to earn anything from it.
>By removing being able to exploit capital for wealth, naturally, there won't be as big of a class gap
A: Are you proposing removing investing? How will new inventions be financed and rewarded?
B: Whats wrong with a class gap? As long as the average person (and the poor) is much better off, who cares?

You can absolutely fuck off with that load of bullshit, capitalism with market regulations is far free-er of a system than communism.

How can you take away people's rights to create and own a business, force them to work for the government and then say that capitalists don't give people freedom of choice?

that's nice in theory but it doesn't work like that. you can artificially control the supply as in diamond mining and corporations can cooperate to benefit each other to the detriment of the consumer. this also encourages practices such as building products to fail and misleading the consumer is in general beneficial

>but an argument could be made that communism has never been implemented correctly.
no, it couldn't
kill yourself commie faggot

>"Reeeee ppl hav mur muny ten meee, dey most be eeviill, which meks it gud to take frum dem"
Why even strive for wealth when it'll be taken from me by jews like you.

For you op

the first installment of marxist doesn't work very well, which was karls take on economics. what would make you think that his opinion of society, which is just extending the same idea to community, work either

What is it that you want to do as a communist?
Remove property rights, legalize theft, abolish the government?
The reason we have these systems is because people arent perfect.

>Corporations can cooperate to benefit each other...
No, it is in the best interest of a corporation in a cartel to cheat their competitors to maximise profit.

The very concept of communism.is antithesis to truth and so is complete nonsense ignoring its economic absurdity.

Well my end goal is of course communism - a society wherein there is a scarcity of goods - goods are so abundant that any attempt to sell them for profit would be pointless as they are abundant.

To achieve this I advocate for a dictatorship of the proletariat wherein private property(note this is not the same as personal property) is abolished and major industries are brought under state control and run according to a planned economy. If implemented properly this would be good for everyone that doesn't hold capital investments or profit at the expense of others labour.

>Remove property rights
yes


>legalize theft
no

>abolish the government?
no. the state will wither away when there is no need for it anymore, i.e. classes have been abolished and there is a scarcity of goods

It is pure false Jewish nonsense and any followers of it completely lost to the world except for the enlightened who seek to lord over the lost.

helo GOmrades her we disguss the rebolushunary ideologe of gommunism x--DDD :D

smag da fashist!

>Lets remove property rights
>Theft still exists
How can you steal property that no one owns?

What need is there of a government without property rights?
You can take what you desire.

We don't want to take away wealth you have created for yourself. If you do a shitload of work you are entitled to more pay than someone that does the bare minimum.

We are against leeches, capitalists, that literally contribute nothing and profit from the labour of others.

>Capitalist state have always allocated resources most efficently
this has not been tested. capitalist states have always enjoyed overabundance of resources -- remember the rise of capitalism is linked to the discovery of the New World. literally two or three continents' worth of resources fueled mercantile capitalist societies of 15-18th century; later Africa and east Asia as well.
>would adapt
it's not a matter of adapting, it's a matter of not being able to physically get ahold of the goods because the rest of the world is boycotting trade with said state

>but an argument could be made that communism has never been implemented correctly
exactly
Why should we jump headfirst into anything that hasn't been tried yet?
How do we know our people are going to be receptive to it?

COMMUNISM IS NOT NAZBOL

ok i said personal property would remain and these rights would be enforced. i meant private property rights would be abolished

>We are against leeches, capitalists, that literally contribute nothing and profit from the labour of others.
YOU MEAN {{{THE J00S}}}?

Personal property is private property. If I can exclude someone from using it, it is private.

this needs to be stated more often

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The best and simplest counterargument to communism is the following: communism requires the government to have complete control over people's daily lives; the government is made up of people; people are fucking capricious idiots who can't be trusted to run their own lives, much less anybody else's; ergo, any communist government will fall apart because people are idiots.

If this triggers too much cognitive dissonance and you can't figure it out, and you refuse to read any history, please go down to the DMV and ask to update your driver's license photograph. Then imagine that level of bureaucracy to do literally anything, including eat. Then you will understand why communism is shit. And you will understand how Holodomor wasn't just a one-time thing.

Here is an example you'll understand

>you and your communist friends want to suck cock
>you're all pozzed
>there is one non pozzed dude you all want to suck
>He demands a fee that is on the limit of what all you faggots will pay
>being cock hungry, pozzed faggots you willing throw your money at him to eat up cum
>capitalism

Or

>you hiv infected faggots assault him
>suck his balls dry
>Distribute his cum amongst your faggot mouth
>he dies
>cum famine
>communism

Legalize theft abolish government and you have communist somalian utopia, the will of man andbhis well being is antithesis to the Jewish murderous deathcult of gommunism developed by reactionary capitalists.

But... Isn't it, Each according to their need half of your screed? The usual interpretation is that of nothing superfluous as I technically don't need a new Lexus or some other car. How in a communist regime I would satisfy my desire of things if it is like that?

Sometimes but not always. If you were in charge of a well established industry with a huge start up cost such as a mass production car manufacturer it would make a lot of sense to cooperate with your rivals for mutual benefit as you'd have a lot of leeway before a competitor could establish themselves in response

That is contradictory, Private property and personal property is literally the same.

>Why even strive for wealth when it'll be taken from me by jews like you.
it's funny because this is a frequent communist argument: why would any worker strive for wealth when any value created will be taken away by the capitalist?

COMMUNISM IS A WORK OF THE JEWS PLEASE STOP TALKING

The work of a single Jew, basically a leech living in britain.

They've tried to implement it more than enough times and it's consistently failed.

If they can't even get the first step right, what hope is there for the rest of the ideology?

IS IT THIS JEW?

This is very contrived scenario, I could cheat and make a lot of money. Only if every party doesn't cheat does the cartel continue. I'm not against monopoly regulation, but communism isn't the solution for a handful of problems like these.

THAT JEW.

Thoughts? Ok, how about you google Bolshevik communism, and red terror. More thoughts? How about that Nazism and Fascism was a reaction to communism which killed 300 million people. More thoughts? How about... that communism won, has indoctrinated the United states, and that's why the media is baiting us into a race war. Closing thoughts.... hmmm.... OH YEAH. JEWS ARE THE ONES BEHIND THE COMMUNISM MOVEMENT.

No it's not, you retard.

I HATE JEWS

in communist/marxist parlance
private property = private ownership of the means of production specifically (mines, factories, productive land)
personal property = belongings in general (cars, computers, a house)