Prove me wrong?
>3rd worlders will do many jobs for $1 a day
>You cannot compete with this
>Big business will use cheap labor as much as possible
>Mass unemployment gets worse unless you want sweatshop work in the USA
How is UBI not the only solution with these facts in mind?
Other urls found in this thread:
issendai.com
twitter.com
enjoy depending on the government for your food and healthcare
hope you like the tyranny that comes after that
Raise tariffs on trade with china, focus competition with comparable markets like US and Canada.
Your money does not go as far and the economy wont be as inflated, but more people have work and the means to buy their own goods with.
How does that disprove anything I've said? All those things are true, everyone knows that manufacturing won't come back for example when it can be done at 1/10th of the cost in China. Big business isn't going to reduce its profits just so more people in America can have well paid jobs.
Specialised industry is safe for now, but blue collar labor is being outsourced and I've yet to see someone explain how this will be stopped?
>Prove me wrong?
Since you asked.
Here's what will happen:
1: Any attempt to implement UBI on either a state-wide or nationwide scale will be destroyed by migrating societal leeches who will overload the system.
2: The scenario you describe is prevented through economic nationalism, which has less flaws to it then UBI.
It will happen eventually, but not until automation has taken over the majority of jobs
Economic nationalism is a good idea. How can it be done though? Right now it would take an effort from many countries.
I can't wait for universal basic income, life is gonna be great.
Nice digits. But you are some kind of special stupid.
You are suggesting that we "give" money to everyone in the first world, and that everyone in the first world just stop working and use those money to buy things from the 'turd' world.
Are you really unable to see how this is going to end? How long will they accept our money, literally just paper with a number on it, currently backed by the stuff you can buy that "we" (that'd be we, the working people, not (you) the gibs collector) create. Once the paper can no longer be used to purchase high tech first world miracles, the turd-worlders will no longer exchange t-shirts, shoes, rice, ticky-tacky for a piece of paper with a number on it.
rd worlders will do many jobs for $1 a day
Don't let them in and don't export labor to them.
>>Big business will use cheap labor as much as possible
Ban big business from doing that.
>>Mass unemployment gets worse unless you want sweatshop work in the USA
Deport all non-Whites.
>reee! you can't restrict business! that's not free market capitalism!
>I only care about money not the White race.
You're forgetting the part where they inflict/allow mass depopulation.
because robots
Why is it the only solution?
All the productive member of society need is to buy robots to defend themselves and their assets.
The useless scumbags who cannot provide any value to anyone else can simply starve or off themselves in a hail of robo-bullets.
What happens when there's far too many people living off this UBI than the working people can sustain and scifi dreams of magic robot workforces fail to become real
we get universal credit in this country
eliminate welfare and minimum wage and prices come down
no need for basic income
Nobody will work and employers won't be able to incentivize employees at all.
I mean...what do people do for fun? drink and go to restaurants and buy stupid shit like video games and toys...all of the people that work at those places like bartenders/liquor store clerks, video game sellers and other low pay jobs will be vacant.
Gain a fucking skill and you won't be competing for 3rd world tier wage labor.
UBI is just another welfare program to be gamed. Another form of feeding a useless underclass.
It's almost like those low pay jobs could all be easily automated...
I love how leftists call for more immigration to make cheap jobs but also demand hi-tech to do these jobs to effort UBI
If we would not waste so much money for refugees (60 billion or so last year) and other social wealth we could talk about considering ubi
But year morality goals and muh humanity is more worth than logic or progress today
I see a negative income tax as a much more viable, and frankly likely, solution to mass disparity from automation/competition. At least the person would be earning $1000 on their own as an "artist" and trying to earn more and get better rather than doing nothing productive.
>big businesses will outsource or use cheap labor
this has been going on for ages already
the advent of new technology simply aids workers in being more productive.
Not all businesses can afford the latest and greatest in automation, but I'm sure in your mind the world will be ruled by a single corporation that has cornered every industry so it's pointless to discuss this topic with you at all
UBI is fucking stupid and you are fucking stupid
So do the businesses that make the change to automation and survive end up the permanent monopoly of the given market? Shit man I'm confused, what point are humans?
lets say everyone get $1000 a month. why would you sell your food for money when you get free money anyway? wouldn't you rather keep your food or charge an extortionate rate to make it worth selling?
thus, inflation. your UBI quickly becomes worthless because $1000 just becomes the new $0
Right yeah that makes sense. It's like an extreme example of what would happen to those dudes who make 15 an hour if minimum was raised to 15..they would just do something easier.
Our economy is already like 70% service. I see no reason why everyone cant just work in service when machines take over all the repetitive bullshit.
Universal income would destroy all creativity and turn society into an absolute cesspool.
In effect, an efficient implementer of automation could gain market dominance up to anti-trust laws being implemented. Then, presumably, the competition in the same market would implement similar automation to compete. Capitalism would then drive the price of that product down further via competition such that no one company could set an ineffable price. Humans would be forced into other forms of labor that would possibly be subsidized directly or indirectly through means such as a negative income tax.
kill yourself commie shill rat
adapt and show the world you are a wolf not a sheep
You automate your bean farms so your paper money is backed by beans.
You should post this in the market HAPPENING threads.
Best case scenario to this is we live lives without struggle. We already have more than enough people who the truth means absolutely nothing to because all opinions are equal when there is no danger or consequences to being wrong.
Worst case is a small class of people who own the automation just win the game of life and are totally fully taken care of by robots and live forever while everybody on the consumer side is just starved out or boiled behind the wall.
Maybe the future will be a few elite elite elites that live like Liches floating through space like gods. No other people because all that's left to do is play some random novelty generating deep sleep video game because existence is boring and there is no real danger outside of intentional suicide.
Your best case scenario sounds worse than your worst. Without struggle we simply die, in your second case the consumers are the lucky ones.
Apparently I'm not eligible for universal basic income because I have too much money in my savings.
The more you are dependent, the lower your quality of life will go. It's a scam. The only way you should trust people to improve your quality of life is if you're paying for it. Know what they're getting out of helping you, and you may be able to trust their help.
issendai.com
>You may think you have standards. You don't.
>Universal income would destroy all creativity
No, it would only remove the financial incentive. That would only destroy wage-slavery.
Creative people tend to not be motivated by financial incentives. They work because they have passion for what they do, not for much much they get paid.
Artists would still do art, engineers would still engineer, scientists would still do science.
Nowhere as often though
Without incentive, you do those things when you want to
With incentive, you do them because you want to AND to make money
The chance to make bank has been one of the greatest motivators for innovation in history. Who knows what we'll miss out on by removing it.
How would this be?
>implying people won't move to new countries or establish their own
>depending on the government for your food and healthcare
Basic income is not designed to lead to this outcome, nor is there evidence that it does so unintentionally in the places it's been tried.
>Any attempt to implement UBI on either a state-wide or nationwide scale will be destroyed by migrating societal leeches who will overload the system.
But in trials in multiple countries over different points in time this has not happened. I get the intuitive reasoning behind this assertion but it just hasn't materialized.
More like a massive purge but w/e helps you sleep at night, bud.
>trials
Everyone knows it isn't forever, so they don't quit work.
rd worlders will do many jobs for $1 a day
Then let's replace their jobs with robots?
>>You cannot compete with this
If robots replace manual labor, jobs will go to qualified candidates
>>Mass unemployment gets worse unless you want sweatshop work in the USA
Qualifications, qualifications, qualifications
How is the fact that third workers doing a job for a dollar guarantee some lazy entitled feminist cunt a universal income? Unless you are claiming that everyone should make 30 dollars a month in response to those working for a dollar a day, then can you tell me what's the point of working?
>If we would not waste so much money for refugees (60 billion or so last year)
Source? Even Breitbart says it's more like $4bn. If you really want to shave some money off the budget go after the military, SS and Medicare/Medicaid, which collectively cost about $2500bn.
Reduce the military to 1.5xChina.
Drop or significantly scale down Medicare and Medicaid. (I say completely drop them and implement single-payer healthcare but that's not required.) Drop other entitlements like food stamps and unemployment benefits.
Phase out SS payments. Shift all new SS revenue to Basic Income fund.
Use all the above to fund Basic Income for 100% of citizens.
It could be argued a lot of those fields are being corrupted by the financial motivation for people who aren't passionate about them. Almost all the great scientists were aristocrats with no financial problems or real obligations except to God.
It's not a solution. Yes, automation is going to remove a lot of people from jobs, but it's also going to lower costs for everyone in general. The shock will be initial, but over the years, things will be so cheap, you won't even care about universal basic income.
The very reason we even give a shit about 3rd worlders is because our economic might, living conditions, intellect and enormous resources is bringing them out of the dark ages.
This will happen anyway. The technology to destroy 30-50% of all jobs already exists, it's just too inefficient right now. However as with all technologies efficiency will increase over time and then only the government will be able to stop stuff like fully automated trucks, supermarkets, restaurants etc.
And that's just in the next 10 years, in 10+ years even surgeons, lawyers and some creative jobs will be replaceable.
>why would you sell your food for money when you get free money anyway
Because $1000 is barely enough to survive on and the vast majority of people, yes including poor people, strive to improve their situations. Having that $1k net means they don't have to go without food at times, and can afford to have preventative medical care, can take some vocational classes without having to spend 60 hours a week working full time and going to class, can afford decent child care, can pay for tutors for their kids, etc. Basically all the things people who make a decent living can do that poor people can't that would really improve their lives and help them to become more financially stable in the long run.
That's fine to posit as a potential explanation, but you can't dismiss the evidence so far. At best the conclusion to be drawn would be "We should conduct more trials for longer periods of time, with no indication given to recipients that the income will end, in order to properly evaluate the effects."
The elites/AI could always liquidate or ignore the serfs rather than pay them.
Tariffs solve all of that you meme flag using fuck
how about we fix the money supply first before we even think about UBI? the USD has lost, what, 90% of its value? fix that, and we won't even need the $15 minimum.
rd worlders will do many jobs for $1 a day
Many of those $1 jobs will be automated
>>You cannot compete with this
I don't have to, I have the opportunity to do things that won't be automated
>>Big business will use cheap labor as much as possible
Those that are capable of doing the same jobs as me are in the first world.
>>Mass unemployment gets worse unless you want sweatshop work in the USA
The sweatshop jobs are the ones being automated
You get money back on your tax form if you make up until a certain amount. This equalized wages as the top earners are taxed and the lowest earners are paid. However, it is never strictly advantageous to make less money in this algorithm, outside of maybe opportunity cost.
So, for example,
>$2000/yr artist gets +$15000 on taxes
>$12000/yr clerk gets +$10000 on taxes
>$90000/yr engineer pays -$20000 on taxes
>$2000000/yr nepotism jew pays -$1000000 on taxes
I wouldn't be so sure of that, to be honest.
For an example, look at Skunk Works. It's basically what happens when you give (top tier) engineers free reign.
Work when they want, on whatever they want, with whomever they want and use whatever resources they need, resulting in some of the most awesome shit ever engineered.
Sure, not every engineer is Skunk Works-tier, but a small group of brilliant engineers/scientists tend to do better work than large groups of the mediocre.
It's the shoulders of giants, not great big piles of manlets.
sounds like slavery re-imagined. im on board
It makes the lazy lazier and drains on goverment funding
Neo feudalism
Sorry shuggah, but our ass finna get culled by da (((Elites))) befoe dey gib mo gibsmedatz N sheeeeeeeiit, muhfuckah.
Cull the population with biological warfare in a "terrorist" attack. The government would sooner do this than pay out gibs to people for existing
Since OP was a dunce, and didn't even bother mentioning Artificial Intelligence, let me do it.
When strong Artificial Narrow Intelligence exists (less than five years) it can replace nearly 15-20% of existing white collar labor. This percentage will rise once a bit of creativity of organizational restructuring of job duty is completed by corporate heads.
When Artificial General Intelligence arrives in 15-30 years, all white collar positions will be eliminated completely.
Robotics are still too slow and clunky for general societal use, so everyone will still have the ability to participate in service based jobs (e.g. Maids, Janitors, Yoga Teachers, Waiters, Motivational Speakers) But...will they want to?
It was never the hard robots that you had to watch out for, it was the software.
Get ready, the tide is coming. 20% unemployment is all you need for chaos. Strong ANI will push us past 33%.
I'm going to read your fortune. Double zeroes represent how stupid you are. Why? You put yourself into the victim/plebeian mindset by passively being afraid of "big business" hiring cheap labor. I'm going to help you. Enter the patrician mindset. I know you currently don't think in the business mindset, but that can change. Let's say you are an entrepreneur, a sole proprietor, and you are running your business on a tight budget. For one instance, you can charge one person for $40 per hour, or another for $15. Both will produce similar services. Let's say that you have them do 10 hours of work. That's a $150 cost out of pocket versus a $400 cost. If you are a middle class person like myself, wouldn't you want to save the $250? Only caveat is that the cheaper worker is from another country.
Good points, still, ANI and AGI will produce capital in their own right. As much as the .1% would hope to monopolize that capital, some kind of UBI, or at least a reverse income tax, would be required to prevent total inequality.
/THREAD!!!!!!!
>tech in 20 years
>abundance and automation
>thinking (((elites))) will altruistic
>implying they don't have disdain for plebs
>over 9000% tariffs on shitholes like china and bangladesh
>manufacture good quality product that will last you a longer time for a higher price in your own country
problem solved
WOW the amount of morons in this thread!
UBI is there to release you from shackles of RENT AND FOOD PURCHASE! you dumb fucks! It is not free money to spend on drugs and then bitch at the end of the month that bank wants your house! UBI IS ONLY TO PAY FOR YOUR FOOD AND RENT ONLY! So you can survive and be lazy if that what you choose to do, but if you want a better life or a car or other things then you have to get a job!
QUIT BEING MORONS, YOU FUCKING RETARDS!
enjoy business leaving your country
If your response is "ban them from doing that" enjoy being Venezuela.
>manufacture good quality product that will last you a longer time
Bad goy.
Manufacture product that will easily fail so it requires replacing.
If everything in the USA was made by 3rd worlder cheap labor then the prices would be so extremely cheap that even a sweatshop worker in the USA would be as rich as a doctor is now.
So just remove the minimum wage and let people be rich.
it's cheaper to genocide a worthless populace. We're being set up to be culled so only the top elite can live on in a super advanced society
It's like you don't realise that many people spend most of their income on those things.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I went complete dunce there myself by not adding a conclusion.
Three choices exist:
>Neo-feudalism
Elites take up transhumnanist ideals and separate themselves from humanity physically, technologically, and biologically. You should hope that this isn't the option because hyper wealthy AGI guided post-humans of cybernetic superiority would be unstoppable.
>UBI
Let's call this the path to heaven. We give negative income tax or outright ubi. Soon, humanity frees itself from labor and moves on to more fanciful ideals of living. Eventually, 30-40 years out, an ASI will emerge and that will probably solve every other problem that exists on the planet. Humanity is given a heaven that puts those explained in religious texts to shame.
>Depopulation
??? check the georgia guide stones
where is this money going to come from if nobody has a job to pay taxes?
As soon as everything becomes automated this is possible.
>Mass deportation/ extreme vetting for immigration
>Public ownerships of land and capital(machines, robots, etc)
>Farms are farmed by machines who deliver food to people
>Commie blocks put in place for lazy people
>The genius, talented, and hardworking can operate within the free market for "luxury" items and services
>Also incentivize sterilization by giving people money to get sterilized
Low Iq people would gladly live hedonistic self-centered childless lives, and they would become extinct over time.
UBI ppl always only think about how to spend the money. Where it comes from in the first place is a big mystery.
If you believe in welfare that means you've decided that you simply can't let people die as a result of their bad choices. When they blow all their UBI money on bullshit, or drugs, or expensive housing they don't need, you end up just feeding them more and more to keep them or their children from starving due to their own stupidity. The biggest problem with UBI (beyond just not working on a basic math level) is that it doesn't do away with the need for additional welfare systems at all.
>demanding half the fucking pay of the rich
>expecting those rich to not just pack their shit and leave
dumbass commie
plug the loopholes, raising taxes will do absolutely fucking nothing, because they're not paying any taxes in the first place
It will happen when all labor intensive jobs are automated as well as maintenance for those machines in operation. My bet is 50 yrs from now it will be necessary, but with it will come limits to procreation and with it will go basic freedoms.
When you get $10K a year, all your basic necessities will cost about $10K and you won't get any disposable income. Worse: prices of goods will raise astronomically to account for high taxes and soon $10K a year becomes too low for basic needs. Then you're in a death spiral for not enough goods and too high of taxes. There are better methods of handling labor shortage, where liberal arts might actually become useful. There'll always be jobs, but as automation happens, they become more like hobbies and interests. Slap on UBI and there'll be no need to do hobbies, and instead people would suck the teet of their Jewish overlords.
If we had a truly capitalistic society, there would be many businesses and many rich people, and lots of disposable income to voluntarily drop on NEETs with too much time on their hands looking to entertain or teach through their niche hobbies in exchange for voluntary handouts.
With true capitalism, you don't need the government to prop up a bunch of Jewish conglomerate corporations and make them the sole distributors of goods, services, and basic income to keep their products perpetually relevant in the hands of full-time consumers. We'll literally become the goy animals they pacify with necessities while they live like kings.
>immigrants abuse public progams which allow them to work for shit wages even in higher cost areas
>surely more govenment progams will fix this!
kys parasite
UBI is unsustainable. Look at Venezuela for the end result of UBI.
>How is UBI not the only solution with these facts in mind?
Because we have FEMA camps and Zyklon B.