Is he right? He has a strong shot at being the next Pope
>In April 2012, the election of a young gay man who was living in a registered same-sex partnership to a pastoral council in Vienna was vetoed by the parish priest. After meeting with the couple, Schönborn reinstated him. He later advised in a homily that priests must apply a pastoral approach that is "neither rigorist nor lax" in counselling Catholics who "don't live according to [God's] master plan".[38]
>Schönborn is a member of the Elijah Interfaith Institute Board of World Religious Leaders.[31]
>Elijah Interfaith Institute is a nonprofit, international, interfaith organization which was founded by Rabbi Alon Goshen-Gottstein in 1997.
>he should be burned at the stake as a heretic would excommunicate.
Josiah Barnes
...
Jack Thomas
Is that crusader kings?
Christopher Hill
>back in a day yahweh could burn down cities >now he can't even show himself I guess old age isn't kind even for gods.
Zachary Roberts
Remember when people on Sup Forums were posting how awesome he was because he mentioned how bad Islamic migration is for Europe? Yeah. This is the faggot that wrote the John Paul II catechism that is literally obsessed with human dignity and enshrines the pastoral doctrines of the second vatican council as if it were dogma.
Caleb Sanders
>literal faggotry Cristianity needs reformed NOW
Dominic Torres
Is he right?
>Cardinal Marx criticized the Church for not being at the forefront on homosexual rights in Germany and said the Church must express regret for not acting to oppose the former law against homosexuality.
>It must be recalled, Cardinal Marx said, “that the Church has not exactly been a trailblazer as far as the rights of homosexuals are concerned.”
>“We must express our regret that we did nothing to oppose homosexuals from being prosecuted,” he continued.
>In 2014, Marx responded in an interview to the issues under consideration at the Synod of Bishops concerning the Church's treatment of people that are gay: "I have the impression that we have a lot of work to do in the theological field, not only related to the question of divorce, but also the theology of marriage. I am astonished that some can say, “Everything is clear” on this topic. Things are not clear. It is not about church doctrine being determined by modern times. It is a question of aggiornamento, to say it in a way that the people can understand, and to always adapt our doctrine to the Gospel, to theology, in order to find in a new way the sense of what Jesus said, the meaning of the tradition of the church and of theology and so on. There is a lot to do".[25] He went on to say, "Take the case of two homosexuals who have been living together for 35 years and taking care of each other, even in the last phases of their lives. How can I say that this has no value?" [26]
Landon Anderson
The Church simply needs a temporal chastisement. We've been undergoing a spiritual chastisement for fifty years.
Easton Mitchell
this. the old geezer always needs random madmen taking it upon themselves to speak on his behalf.
Jace Taylor
>Catholicism Not even once.
Chase Green
I thought Schonborn was a rock of Catholic orthodoxy. Maybe not. I don't know all the details, other than those noted in op. Eg, election to what?
And does he permit the young man to receive Communion? Does he encourage the young man to live chastely, and to avoid the grave sin of genital homosexual activity?
Liam Rivera
Is the Christianity you believe in the same one that existed 2000 years ago? Of course not, religions adapt to the cultures of the people that practice it. If you don't they die out like Manicheanism or Zoroastrianism. This should be welcomed not shunned.
Mason Ross
What sin. The word gay is not in there >God's master plan >The Catholic Church Serpent seed wasn't His plan either. But that was extremely heterosexual
Gavin Powell
Yet more proof that Roman Catholics are not christian.
The Church is not a rigid global hierarchy. It is the assembly of those who do the will of God, regardless of traditions.
You do not need a pope to rule over you: the Holy Spirit suffices.
>I thought Schonborn was a rock of Catholic orthodoxy. He is, at least of contemporary orthodoxy. That doesn't mean he's the rock of 1950's orthodoxy
Sebastian Perez
From a religious perspective, no.
However, the right wing would be wise to embrace gays that are conservative, adopt family values, and are willing to have kids via a surrogate, insemination, or simply adopt. I believe the wholesale rejection of faggots is counterproductive.
Nicholas Wilson
I do not believe attempting to pressure faggots into getting a beard and living life as any other heterosexual is a good idea.
We should celebrate faggots that proudly play a role in the continuation of western society, tolerating a bit of deviancy. I just want to see faggots to make an effort to be more than some grindr cockwhore who parades around naked every year and shills for liberalism until they die from AIDS.
Camden Jenkins
This.
Angel Nguyen
No, user. He needs to be OBLITERATED
Eli Fisher
Religions adapt to the cultures of those who don't really believe. If you really believe it should shape your culture.
Kayden Brown
>Is the Christianity you believe in the same one that existed 2000 years ago? Yup
>Is the Christianity you believe in the same one that existed 2000 years ago?
What are we referring to by 'Christianity': the doctrines or the traditions?
Obviously the traditions have changed, but the orthodoxy has remained more or less constant from the time of Nicea to today, across all major denominations. There are startlingly few points of controversy among Christians when it comes to doctrine: it's almost all around the edges of tradition (in the case of Prots v. Cats) or small interpretive differences (in the case of Cats v. Orthos).
The sheer constancy of Christianity is probably the best argument for its truth.
>the gates of hell will not prevail against it
Parker Sanders
No, cardinal shornborn is a notorious liberal modernist who denies many teachings of the church, I hope he never becomes pope, the church has consistently taught against homosexuality as both an unnatural sexual desire and the degenerative sinful actions which flow from it, it can't ever recognize homosexual unions as valid.
Liam Morgan
>"If the cardinal would say that homosexuality is not a serious moral disorder, he would be mistaken. But he doesn’t say that," Buttiglione noted in the April 6 column. "According to the Catholic doctrine, homosexuality is a serious moral disorder … I don’t think Cardinal Schönborn denies this truth." >"He can’t be admitted to the sacraments, but he needs to be invited to participate in the religious functions and in the parish life."
No, he is not endorsing homosexuality, nor allowing communion for people in this lifestyle.
Yet another anti-Catholic shill thread trying to weaken people's faith in the See, trying to turn people away from the Church. And created by people who have no clue about the Catholic Church, its structure, its beliefs, and its mission.
Don't you people have anything better to do?
Austin Stewart
What's going to happen is that the Church will gradually allow it under the guise of "pastoral practice" without changing anything on paper. So once homosexuality is finally integrated into Catholicism at all levels you people can still sit there and say, "Well look it still says it's wrong in this book that no bishop in the world gives a fuck about" and then keep going right along with it. Catholicism is a religion of pharisees.
Oh look a perfect example just showed up:
Jason Foster
Orthodoxy is as different from Catholicism as she is from Protestantism. Our ecclesiology and sotoriology are radically different than Rome's
Lucas Barnes
>from the council of Nicea exactly, a group of people even had to get together to argue which books were relevant and which weren't. Since humans are fallable, how are we even able to know they were accurate in picking which ones would become part of the bible. Also look how Catholicism started pagan gods as Saints like in Latin America and the Roman Empire. Religions are more fluid and less constant than we think
Joshua Kelly
i don't care if gays sport fuck, but there should be no gay marriage.
Brody Ortiz
Why should unrepentant sinners be welcomed into the parish life or religious functions?
It's a meaningless statement anyway: I'm not aware of any church outside the deep sisterfucking south that would exclude homosexuals from its buildings or sermons.
The point is that they do not respond to the gospel. They've already heard it their entire lives and reject it with their very lifestyle.
If you are not seeking repentance, you do not belong in a church. Bar none. This applies to heterosexual sodomites as well as homosexuals, as well as divorcees and those living in fornication.
Not only because this threatens to undermine our sacred doctrines, but because it would do them no good. Church is worthless without repentance. Christ did not die so that you could go to a building every Sunday morning and enjoy coffee with degenerate sodomites. He died to save you from slavery to the kingdom of sin.
Wyatt Martin
>homosexuality is finally integrated into Catholicism
That is never going to happen. See, you have no clue about how the Church is structured and how doctrine is formed. The Church's stance on those issues will never change because they simply can't.
We have a Magisterium. We have centuries of councils and writings. We are not like the proddies who have this unshakable belief in "sola fide", which leads to all sorts of strange interpretations of Christianity.
And what is this "religion of pharisees" garbage? What, are you complaining we are too legalistic or not legalistic enough? You are all over the place.
Blake Robinson
>priests should not adhere to God's word It is by His good grace that I was born into a protestant family. Fix your shit, Catholics.
Levi Reed
>Of course not, religions adapt to the cultures of the people that practice it. If you don't they die out like Manicheanism or Zoroastrianism
Ask any of the mainline Protestant churches about how well that's working out for them. Once you reach the point where your only ruling on morality is "be a good person", there's little incentive (if any) to remain with the church. If God is a pretty nice guy that doesn't give much of a fuck about morality (as long as its CONSENTING ADULTS), why is he going to care if you don't turn up at your church's services?
PROTIP: The people that think there's nothing wrong with gay marriage aren't going to turn up to Mass because the Catholic Church did a 180 on its position on gay marriage
Jack Ward
This is it exactly. "We have our councils and our canon law, etc., so when we in practice condone abominable sins it's fine, because we really aren't condoning it blah blah." You have your laws on paper but the heart of the institution is rotten and godless.
>We have all these effete homosexual intellectuals who will protect our church!
This is foolish thinking.
Your entire church structure could be upended in one generation with a new batch of writings and thinkers. Are you even aware of how different the average "Catholic" Mass is today from just a century ago, to take only one example? And you'd have to go along with it or be branded a heretic on the fringe, because you reject the very idea of schism because of some autistic literal reading of Matthew 16:18.
You would sound like less of a fool if you had simply said "the Holy Spirit will protect us". You put your faith in purely human institutions, political offices masquerading as 'priests'.
Owen Perry
>Why should unrepentant sinners be welcomed into the parish life or religious functions?
I don't know, to make them repent maybe?
I think you are spending too much time on Sup Forums. You are so used to LARPing and putting on beliefs like hats, trying to project an identity and caring so much about how your buddies on Sup Forums percieve you, you are forgetting one thing:
There are people out there who genuinely, actually, seriously believe without any irony, that the kingdom of heaven is real and that evangelising and converting people is of the utmost importance.
It isn't a matter of "oh they don't believe what we believe right away, so they can't come to our club". People like the Cardinal actually believe that their eternal souls are in danger and are horrified at that prospect. That's what drives these people.
Of course, they are barred from the sacrements. Those are sacred and only for believers. Maybe if the Cardinal allowed unrepentant sinners access to the sacrements, what you are saying would have some weight. But he doesn't. Anyone is welcome into the Church, even if they are sinning.
Christ dined with tax collectors and prostitutes. This earned him hatred, scorn, anger, and eventually led to his brutul and undeserved death. And you grumble that you have to have you morning coffee next to a poof? Come on.
Matthew Morgan
>I'm not aware of any church outside the deep sisterfucking south that would exclude homosexuals from its buildings or sermons. Churches in the South do not exclude homosexuals from attendance or condone incest. You are slandering your fellow Christians (assuming you even are one) and should repent.
Jace Garcia
So you want to take those sexual deviants and let them have kids? I don't see the logic here
Camden Cooper
Fuck its hilarious watching them shit in the face of the Bible because people aren't buying it anymore. It's a long, drawn out confession that even they know deep down Christianity is antiquated towel head nonsense used to make money. Imagine the Vatican's stance in 50 years time. Yeah we changed our mind but papal infallibility and all that, keep paying us though. You pricks make me giggle.
Connor Jenkins
YOUNG POPE NOW!
Henry Perry
>Imagine the Vatican's stance in 50 years time
Given current migration patterns and Italy's birth-rates I suspect the Vatican will probably be a mosque in 50 years time
Ayden Miller
You are just twisting the language to create an argument.
Our Church condemns homosexuality. Our Church also encourages evangelising sinners. You seem to think this is a contradiction somehow.
Evangelising sinners isn't "condoning" their sin. Stop making such a leap.
Oh wow. So you are pointing out changes in the liturgy to demonstrate the radical transformations of the Church? Great.
How about this. Putting aside changes in the liturgy and practices, can you point out to me any dogma or core belief that has changed in the Church's 2000 year history? At any point?
The Church is Christ's body. It goes without saying it is guided by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, you have to wonder why the Catholic Church has survived two millenia of persecution, war and corruption and is still currently the worlds largest denomination if it wasn't.
How is your, isolated, proddie offshoot Church doing in terms of numbers?
Adam Jones
Reply to his argument rather than just pretending to psychoanalyze this guy based on a few posts. That is some weak shit what you have just done. Make an argument dumbass
Andrew Morales
My logic is simple. Canada has a birthrate of 1.61. We should focus on quantity.
Evan Long
>>Schönborn is a member of the Elijah Interfaith Institute Board of World Religious Leaders.[31] >>Elijah Interfaith Institute is a nonprofit, international, interfaith organization which was founded by Rabbi Alon Goshen-Gottstein in 1997.
James Ramirez
>The Church is not a rigid global hierarchy. It is the assembly of those who do the will of God, regardless of traditions. Does that mean someone who isn't Christian can be Christian?
Adrian Torres
What are you even saying? I pretty clearly argued that people should not be banned from the church itself aside from the sacrements because that would be wrong. This Church is about evangelising sinners and not treating it like some secret society.
Juan Hernandez
Literally called an abomination by God. There's a special place in hell for 'priests' such as this.
Michael Rodriguez
That kid has a fucking cube head
Brandon Gray
>Headquartered in Jerusalem what a crazy coincidence!
Michael Hill
>survived two millenia of persecution
What a joke. You became the Roman Empire after just 300 years, and from then on spent the time persecuting just about everyone who didn't accept your autistic doctrines, as well as countless ethnic groups all over the world, and now you want me to believe that you were persecuted.
I will grant that the Holy Spirit attempts to guide your 'church', but you kick against the sticks every time. You put your faith in human institutions, and not in Christ. You even have the gall to claim that a mere man is "in persona Christi".
Your 'church' is nothing more than a political body with a fraction of the truth.
>can you point out to me any dogma or core belief that has changed in the Church's 2000 year history?
For starters, the complete invention of the concept of the Pope. You take one tiny verse and read so much into it, it's hilarious that you lot constantly accuse protestants of making verses into pretexts. You literally pull an entire institution out of your ass because you're too autistic to think that maybe Jesus was referring to Peter the man rather than his office as *one* of the bishops of Rome. That's right, he wasn't the only one, even in his own day. And, frankly, there's startlingly little evidence that Peter was ever in Rome to begin with.
Nathaniel Wilson
10th Crusade when
Benjamin Young
of course he is german
Landon Green
Someone who isn't Christian can be saved, yes.
Camden Green
>88 what a crazy coincidence!
Jaxon Martin
DEVS.VVLT
Luis Myers
lol
There is nothing Christian about Catholicism.
But you all would not listen...
Andrew Campbell
If anybody knows about sexual sins, its the Catholic church.
Jayden Nguyen
So you think for 1,500 years there was essentially no Christians?
Jace Peterson
What does "putting your faith in Christ" mean, exactly?
Sola fide? How can you look at the mess that is the Protestant churches these days and claim that sola fide is in any way practical? There are all sorts of conflicting beliefs, some which support moral abominations because "well, it isn't in the bible, so..."
As for Papal primacy and the primacy of Peter, it wasn't just the Bible where that idea came from. The Church fathers wrote about it, the epistles of Clement hint about Rome having authority over the Bishops. And sure, there was no evidence Peter was in Rome. There is little evidence of the existence of Peter at all. There is very little evidence of existence of any of the Apostles. And that is only because this is from a time where detailed records of any sort were never created or kept. That is just how history is.
John Lewis
He's right though. The Catholic church is corrupt and has practices that go directly against what Jesus preached or what God wishes.
Jack Powell
> still listening to Catholic higher ups in current year Nigger the Vatican nor cardinals have any connection to God. They are retarded child abusers that, God willing will meet their Jew devil at the hands of a Nigger which Francis sucked the toes of.
Carter Thompson
Yahweh isn't our God. Pastor Andersen has covered this. Yahweh is Kabala tier filth. Much disappoint
Chase Jones
I'm pretty sure you're talking shit. A recall an Italian Bishop/Priest talking about Moslem niggers destroying Europe.
Austin Robinson
The majority of fags that adopt ABUSE THE CHILDREN this is known.
Give uz your address Trudeau and I'll have all your commie niggers, chinks run a train in every hole and surgically added holes until you die.
Aiden Johnson
The problem is that argument is linguistically faulty, i.e. gay vs. sodomite. The sin is that of sodomy not strictly speaking of being gay or having deep seated "homosexual tendencies". You certainly talk about the values of any caring relationship without endorsing sinful aspects of those relationship but the careful thing is to do it without endorsing the sin.
Benjamin Watson
>that go directly against what Jesus preached or what God wishes
>muh completley decontextuzmized DONT CALL PRIESTS FATHER ! >muh saints is idolatry Yawn.
Wyatt Foster
I sure hope you aren't praying to saints, my man.
Gavin Barnes
>praying to saints Proddies being confused with the concept of intercession again.
Then again, proddies weren't above pulling books from the Bible when finding out that they didnt agree with their salvation doctrine, and then they have the gall to claim sola scriptura.
Matthew Lopez
If he became the Pope he doesn't have the power to do gay shit like this, it's an automatic excommunication.
Homosexuals shouldn't be allowed into the priesthood
Liam Johnson
Church should accept gay marriage so gay community will finally shut up about it. We all know that what they were seeking was recognition from the Church, they couldn't care less of secular marriages.
Christian Martin
>conservative gays >adopt family values >willing to have kids via a surrogate >gay adoption You what? Do you even know what "conservative" means? You can't be a conservative gay who adopts conservative family value and be pro gray adoption. It is one or the other. Conservative family values mean "A family is made of a husband and a wife/man and a woman".
Elijah James
>[God's] master plan Well congratulations, you got yourself caught! Now what's the next step in your master plan?
