CO2, CH4, SF6, CFCs, HCFCs etc. - all these concentrations go up in our atmosphere, some massively.
The conspiracy nuts claimed a "warming heatus" for years, just to be BTFO by actual temp readings in recent years.
So what's left for the deniers? Only denying in the face of evidence, I guess.
We must act, also so that Saudi Arabia goes bankrupt and radical Islam goes away with them.
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Oh cool, plant more trees Hans
global warming is real? man, we fucked up not signing paris accords. ive learned my lesson now, i hate trump
>Oh cool, plant more trees Hans
I will, I have planted hundreds of trees myself already and will continue to. I also do not drive a car and if I buy one in the next years, I will buy an e-car. What have you done to bankrupt Saudi Arabia?
>Saudi Arabia goes bankrupt and radical Islam goes away with them.
Radical Islam will remain unless A. More Middle Eastern Dictators are reinstalled to wrangle the incredibly diverse populations there or B. The Ottoman Empire returns to do the same.
And that's just for curtailing it in the ME, this will be a permanent feature of Europe for the rest of technical civilization.
The only actions we can take is to switch fully to Nuclear and begin infrastructure hardening including the introduction of hardier food crop species and more efficient indoor cooling systems.
Saudi Arabia sponsors 95% of the radical Islamists worldwide. You really think that if they go bankrupt then radical Islam will ever be the same again?
People truly don't remember what it was like before Saudi Arabia started sponsoring worldwide jihad in the 1980s, do they?
the situation is in many ways worse than what it used to be only a decade ago. Take a look at the ice sheets for example:
10 or 20 years ago, both the Greenland ice sheet and the Antarctic ice sheet were considered to be highly stable, which was consistent with what we knew about paleoclimate at the time, as well as the climate modeling efforts.
That view has essentially completely imploded by now.
It has been recognized by now that many ice sheets exhibit threshold behavior and can enter into an irreversible decline, past a point of sufficient forcing.
In fact, it's uncontroversial among glaciologists and climatologists to say that a irreversible runaway melting has already been triggered for the West Antarctic ice sheet (equivalent to 3.3m of SLR).
And that is now consistent with the paleoclimate record, which shows sea level to be significantly higher for times that were only slightly warmer than today, and climate modeling, which shows GrIS, WAIS and more mobile portions of the vast East Antarctic ice sheet to be very vulnerable to the melting process.
>manmade climate change is real
Naturally occurring, cyclical climate change is also real. Scientists have estimated Earth temperatures well before humans were civilized, and the Earth has been hotter than present before only to cool into an ice age. The planet is equipped with feedback mechanisms that self regulate temperatures naturally, assuming we don't destroy them (ex: vegetation).
>we must act
Eventually, maybe, if we push it harder than the planet's feedback mechanisms can handle. But you need to understand that exaggerated climate change alarmism is a multi-billion-dollar industry that is trying to hit the trillion mark. The predictive models the media hypes always spell doom in decades and are forgotten by the time doom was advertised to arrive.
So basically stop panicking over virtually nothing and plant more fucking trees, Hans.
No, it'll probably splinter regionally as the network of Wahbbi teachers and leadership falls away, leading to even more sectarian strife.
And I do, and it was a world where save for the OPEC Embargo and the Yom Kippur War it was mostly irrelevant to the day to day. Even the first waves of terrorism stemmed from Shia's initially before being supplanted by Saudi sourced fun.
Cite?
Have you ever considered the possibility that the ice would melt even if humans had never existed?
What we care about is the fact that they're melting while we still exist and how that may affect how we exist. I for one like existing and I certainly want to know how to prepare for any change this may cause to my existence.
What the hell will this do to my existence?
>We must act
I agree. How about we sterilize all populations with a birthrate above replacement? How about we forcefully decentralize and kill the cosmopolitan leftist trash that would refuse?
>1880 2010
>he doesn't even know about kilankovitch cycle
Further more, instead of feeding all our defectives, that food ought to be turned into compost so that we can plant more trees.
this man knows - listen to him
>cite?
what?
it simply wouldn't, because temperatures before the industrialization were driven by insolation in boreal mid-latitudes, which were in a decline ever since the Holocene hypsithermal. So in a world with no humans, the global ice sheets would be in mass-balance in the short-term and slowly expanding in the long-term, not lose ~400 Gigatons of mass every year.
...
>How about we sterilize all populations with a birthrate above replacement?
I am 100% for this. Africa and India are massive problems. We should pay each woman who gets a sterilization there a lot of money. Let them have 1 kid and that is it. Like China did it.
>We should pay each woman who gets a sterilization there a lot of money.
No, we shouldn't. The payment is her getting to stay alive. Why waste money that could be used to plant more trees?
I thought you were pro-everybody
Closed-System paradigm is ending.
Assumptions about solar output being static are now known to be false. Muh greenhouse is bullshit.
No source on your graph.
We need to sterialize around 400 million women in Africa and India. This will prevent around 2 billion births in the next 30 years and make the world population sustainable.
This will cost around 400 billion dollars (costs of procedures and costs of incentives).
Not paying is what we tried in the last 50 years with the result that the African population has increased from 300 million to 1.4 billion and India from 500 million to 1.5 billion.
>look man, this graph clearly shows how two data sets correlate.
>it's real
tylervigen.com
try this you fucking cunt and talk about data again
This graph only covers the past 1500 years...
>>look man, this graph clearly shows how two data sets correlate.
It is temperature readings, there aren't two data sets. You stupid?
I agree that even naturally occurring climate change can be a problem; attributing blame is borderline irrelevant. But the solution might be adapting to the new climate instead of going broke trying to prevent it.
As I already said, severity is widely exaggerated by climate change alarmism. We aren't talking apocalypse here. Maybe some coastal cities become Venice. Get a boat, Hans.
>Implying temperature changes given in Celsius degrees is not data
Holy shit user....
"Adapting", instead of preventing would doom most of human civilization. It would essentially mean PETM 2.0, with CO2 concentrations that haven't been seen since the Eocene, a forcing of 8.5 W/m2, radical ice sheet collapse (possibly even an ice-free planet in the long run) and corresponding accelerating sea level rise. This could knock crucial aspects of the Earth system (ENSO, the South-Asia monsoon, the "three Atmospheric cell configuration", ...) into completely different states and you could essentially wave the biosphere as it existed for the last 66 million years goodbye.
If you want the bottom line of >100 years of paleoclimatology in two sentences, it's this:
(1) CO2 is the principal control knob of the planetary climate
and
(2) The climate determines the fate of the Biosphere
>Not paying is what we tried in the last 50 years with the result that the African population has increased from 300 million to 1.4 billion and India from 500 million to 1.5 billion.
They're getting paid quite a lot, user. It's called aid. The time to give populations that have proven incapable to care about the environment anything but a quick death is over.
You clearly don't care enough about the environment to do what's necessary, so please leave this thread.
>They're getting paid quite a lot, user. It's called aid.
It is not the women who get sterilizations which are paid. It is the dictators and the warlords which are paid "aid". Look it up. We also pay people who give them food and healthcare so they can have 12 kids - mostly Christian institutions who say condoms are a sin.
I said there aren't TWO data sets in the graph. There is ONE data set.
>This graph only covers the past 1500 years...
Now compare it to the one which covers 15000yrs. Why don't they correlate? Yes, because the 15000yrs graphs posted is bs.
>we adjusted the data and there's no pause anymore
>oh, and our hard drives crashed so we can't give you the raw data
>but luckily our adjusted data was safe
>Science!
So you're doubting that the dinosaurs lived on an Earth considerably warmer than during the Ice Age? Does that make you a dinosaur denier? Maybe you should hang out with Ken Ham, Hans.
Ah yes, it couldn't possibly be your graph that's bs.
t rex did global warming you cunt
>Ah yes, it couldn't possibly be your graph that's bs.
No, it cannot. The 1500yrs are researched like cracy. I never seen a source for the 15000yrs graph. Here is a 10000yrs reconstruction until the 1990s and it looks completely different. Why? Could it be... that the pic related actually has a source?
>So you're doubting that the dinosaurs lived on an Earth considerably warmer than during the Ice Age?
>Dinosaurs living on Earth 15,000yrs ago.
Burger education everyone. No, Burger, they didn't live 15,000yrs ago, they lived between 250 million and 65 million yrs ago and yes, the climate was way warmer back then. Half of the land mass back then was also at various periods covered in deserts, there was no polar ice and there were areas of Antarctica with trees and beaches.
Oh fuck I forgot about triceratops farts. If only they had gotten their shit together and found a way to eliminate their methane footprint.
>>we adjusted the data and there's no pause anymore
Wrong. There never was a pause. The last 3 years of actual temperature readings show the trend is going up as predicted.
You think the readings worldwide are all wrong? Really? You really think tens of thousands of temperature stations are manipulated by a worldwide conspiracy spearheaded by Al Gore?
My point is that at some point, without human intervention, a warm Earth cooled, then warmed. Climate change occurs with or without humans; separating the natural from the manmade takes intellectual effort.
Then most of human civilization is doomed.
The collective action problem presented here is so immense that it is impossible for any major attempt at carbon emission reduction capable of preventing PETM 2.0 to succeed.
I think I can resolve some of the confusion:
None of these graphs are "bs" or wrong in and of themselves. But this graphic has at least two problems:
(1) As the y-axis explicitly says, this records central Greenland temperature, not global temperature. So take the Younger Dryas for example, that is shown as the big dip in temperature: Because the YD has quite a bit of spatial heterogeneity, conditions in Greenland don't reflect how the tropics or the Southern hemisphere behaved during that interval. Some of those places are even characterized by a continued warming, not a cooling.
(2) the graphic is missing the instrumental record (in the form of a sudden uptick at the end), which shows temperatures to be beyond the Holocene maximum, since roughly the early 2000s.
That's a problem this graphic doesn't have, because Marcott et al. 2013 is a global multi-proxy compilation.
Great another climate tard.
It's settled science that you are all stupid
>It's settled science
Correct. Then why did Trump pull out of the Paris Accord citing "climate deniers"?
It's too late to act user.
And when I see what's going on nowadays, I'm kind of glad this is a thing.
Mankind was a mistake.
Dumb fuck, the argument is not whether its real or not, its whether we should crash our economy over it. The private sector is and has been sorting this out for decades.
>My point is that at some point, without human intervention, a warm Earth cooled, then warmed.
Yes, so? Nobody denies that over large periods of time in the past massive climate change happened.
>Climate change occurs with or without humans;
Yes, we know that.
>separating the natural from the manmade takes intellectual effort.
Yes, so? It does. And we have concluded that the current lightening fast warming is principally man-made. What is so hard to understand?
Not hard to understand. But understanding a point and believing it are two different things. When I look at a graph of millions of years of temperature, I conclude we are on a steep NATURAL warming slope. I have no problem believing humans cause SOME unnatural warming, but MOST? That's only true if we'd naturally be near the top of a "hill" right now if it weren't for manmade warming, and if that's true we're about to enter a natural cooling period.
what do you think is causing this "natural warming slope"?
because its inefficient to pay india and africa a fuckton of money in foregin aid, so that they start thinking about enviromental issues around 2030 and can use the money until then to boost their economy and ruin your own
>I conclude we are on a steep NATURAL warming slope
Based on what? On past warming trends that all DID NOT happen in similar time frames and similar CO2 and CH4 spikes?
Are you honestly saying you conclude this warming is natural despite the fact that there hasn't be a similar situation in the past? That's like saying "look, I had never had an accident because my breaks always worked, but the accident I just had can't be related to my breaks, because they always worked, even though my mechanic determined that my breaks were shot."
>because its inefficient to pay india and africa a fuckton of money in foregin aid
We are talking about 3 billion paying into the fund for 10yrs. America pays more to Israel in 9 months.
And those contributions were voluntary in the first place!
Most of the temperature data has been tampered with, adjusting earlier readings downward so that modern readings look way higher
The amount of biomass that can exist on the surface of the planet is constrained by the amount of carbon in the ecosystem. Releasing more carbon into the ecosystem is a massive benefit to life worldwide. We could double our crop yields
Hey you want to stop global warming right?
Why not do something about pic related?
>CO2 is the principal control knob of the planetary climate
what the fuck
explain what's wrong
still, why should one do this? india would have been allowed do double its coal production, isn't this contraproductive? israel is of geostrategical importance to keep down the arabs and their oil.
i guess the real reason is some party internal deal with big donors, probably military-industry or something
>Hey you want to stop global warming right?
>Why not do something about pic related?
Did you read this: and this?
Dude that meme is so old. Trump destroyed that to where no one even cares.
>explain what's wrong
This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life
CO2 is 0.04% of the atmosphere, it's barely even measurable. They call it a "trace gas"
It's not even close to being the strongest greenhouse gas, methane is a hundred times stronger, and water vapor is the strongest of all.
If you want the "primary control knob of planetary climate", look in the sky at that big shining golden thing
>Trump destroyed that to where no one even cares.
Climate scientist Trump "destroyed" the conclusion of thousands of climate scientists?
Wow, do tell us more! I mean his tweets are SOOOO filled with science!
Global warming is a good thing. It'll roast those African niggers for good and flood many non-white countries.
>be global warming scientist
>use temperature data for 300-400 years
>planet is billions of years old
>.000000001% sample size is good enough to authoritatively declare increases in temperature are directly and indirectly caused by humankind
>what are lurking variables, skewed, cherry picked data
>what is the ice age
oh also I forgot radical islam isn't going anywhere until the CIA says so
>what is the ice age
fucking shitty, that's what
humans probably couldn't survive such conditions in prosperity
>It'll roast those African niggers for good and flood many non-white countries.
It would also flood countries in Europe with African negroes... just as it is happening now. You haven't thought this through I guess.
>So what's left for the deniers?
We refuse to do anything about climate change until the White Genocide ends. We hold the world hostage. They are making Canada not Canadian anymore. If my homeland is not what it used to be, why should I care if it sinks underwater due to climate change?
I think I can meet all those objections:
- the relative abundance of CO2, compared to all other molecules in the atmosphere is completely irrelevant, what matters is the absolute concentration. Ozone (O3) for example, is only 0.0001%, yet it's of absolutely crucial importance.
- Methane is a stronger GHG on a per molecule basis, but the overall forcing on the climate is much smaller (mostly due to the smaller concentration of CH4 and its short lifetime in the atmosphere)
- Water vapor is indeed a stronger greenhouse gas, but there is an important difference between H2O and CO2: water vapor condenses. Its concentration is limited by temperature (accordign to the Clausius-Clapeyron relationship), so it cannot change independently of climate, while CO2 can. Water vapor is therefore - so to speak- doomed to be a amplifying feedback and not a driver.
- The sun is a well-behaved main-sequence start, whose only long-term evolution is one towards higher luminosity. The short-term variability can do little more than provide high-frequency noise on top of the deca-millennial temperature.
I don't care about non-white countries. Finland can spare couple coastal cities for greater good.
>Finland can spare couple coastal cities for greater good.
Really?
Amen, brother.
if Africa's farm lands turn to desert, they will all want to walk here.
This climate stuff will hurt Europe differently than people think. My money is on catastrophic flood rains, because of increased oceanic evaporation.
We are living in the short interglacial period that will probably end soon (on an Universe timescale). The cycle repeated itself several times already. The global warming would be a good thing for humanity - if it ever was a real thing.
I'd argue that massive environmental changes give a bonus to general intelligence, as a selection pressure. That's because other genetic traits are fixed to the niche environments.
a warmer atmosphere means more water vapor, so extreme precipitation events will increase (in fact, that has already been observed).
But a warmer world also means that when it doesn't rain, soils will dry more quickly and more severely, so both extremes of the water cycle (drought and flood) will increase.
bullshit
>140 years
>Enough evidence
Please.
There are two cases:
Climate change is real but it's mostly natural: we have to stop it, but to do so we have to stop the man-made one too, as it helps natural climate change either way.
Climate change is real and it's mostly man-made. We have to stop it
I hate the fact that politically it is 100% assumed man-made climate change is real, which to me is utter bullshit to be sure of something like this on a fluctuating system such as our planet (fluctuating because predicting it it's fucking impossible now for that massive scales of countless events)
But the fact that climate change is real, that is fucking undeniable. What Trump did was just a political move to gain favors by his now unregulated friends in the industrial establishment. This is also undeniable. Stop sucking Trumps cock. His just another fucking politician who doesn't give a shit about us.
then get angry at china, they're the ones fucking polluting everyone with their increasing standard of living