Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
At least anarchists are more or less honest about it, but their twice as retarded because they're just cannon fodder for whoever they're new masters are.
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>but their twice as retarded
They're
retard
We don't want to kill you, things would be much easier if you joined the ranks of the proletariat. But if you don't, well...you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
Imagine the dude from the big lebowski
Just kind of carefree strolling through life doing whatever.
Walk into the grocery store and grab a gallon of milk and drink it there.
Now imagine, rather than the grocery store, it's actually somebody's house that they walk into and take whatever they want. But it's okay because fuck em, they have too much stuff anyway.
That's basically how most communists see themselves.
Yes, that's precisely what marxism is. The act of drinking another man's milk.
>this is what Sup Forumstards actually believe
Lets not even address the shitty system you think will work this time. Literally just talking about how most you faggots are probably just fucking bored and think getting free reign to anyone and everyone around you would make your life more interesting. Admittedly it would, but its a pretty shit solution like most communist line of thinking.
Communists want capital to be the ownership of all so no one can make riches through exploitation.
you can't get any more retarded than ancoms, even if you're a tankie
Capitalists will drink your milkshake. Communists will drink the milk. Totally evil both of them.
>let's not talks about the thing we're criticizing here
lel
You're forgetting that after the cultural Marxism cat has been released that there is no chance if acceptance into the proletariat if you're tall, attractive and intelligent, or any combination of each.
If you want anything more than legislative equality, being equal under the law, you want dysgenics. People who aren't beta cunts will continue existing and continue out performing you. We know you can't tolerate this, it hurts your victim narrative.
>Communists want capital to be the ownership of all so no one can make riches through exploitation.
And as a result, no one makes riches at all.
Every time communism has ever been implemented, in the interest of efficiency, every citizen was reduced to a bare survival quality of life.
Nobody is allowed to save up anything, nobody is allowed to have more than they need to live until tomorrow.
Communists will tell you to stop oppressing your neighbors because your cow produces more than his cow
What do they mean too? Liberals are literally the bourgoisie Marx kept ranting about
How are you going to solve that money needs to represent value? It completely invalidates wealth redistribution through money redistribution.
Under communism no one but the very few at the top, whose numbers will be far less than le evil rich people you envy so much, will suffer in squalor with no hope for reprieve.
Communists are fucking scum. Garbage sub-humans.
Because in communist fantasy land, the ideal end goal is that money does not exist, everything is free, and people are just super altruistic and only take exactly what they need.
>cultural marxism
Oh what is that, care to explain it to me?
Capitalism is private ownership, meaning everything is volutarily exchanged. If a capitalist is drinking your milkshake, he has already exchanged it for something you value more.
Communists reason that you value not getting shot more than your milk. They shoot you anyway, it does not matter what actions you take. Stalin had intelligent people executed because if all possible resistance is dumb, it can be handled.
speaking of retard hail brother
Even the smallest experiments show this is retarded. We see this in failed marriages all the time. One works hard, the other is a deadbeat. Friction ensues.
The shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes, which no longer exists in the the west or has become globalised, ie your underclass are south east Asian sweatshop workers, onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.
In the 80s the Soviets made a sort of obvious discovery, the first world is getting better, socialism has ceased artificially growing the second world and it's very clear there would be no eventual, blameless revolution in the west. The wall falling was the outward expression of this, what are we doing if we know this isn't going go work?
This is when they began to reframe the revolution instead of as economic classes, in which the lower class had technically disappeared when farmers and factory workers became more likely to own goods/use services than white collar workers, so it became about minority groups and other like special groups.
Since everyone is one of either homosexual, female, not European, not Christian or even fat, they then use this resentment, especially when they directly hate the other that they feel can't understand their pain, to promote violence and aggression towards the other. This has the two fold purpose of legitimising aggression to those who make you feel bad as well as causing very real, actually somewhat deserved, hatred from the victim of resentment that's been othered.
Explain how it is not a system based on gibs. Why shouldn't there be classes? Why should I be on the same level as some toothless lazy piece of shit?
All bourgeoisie cucks get the bullet.
There is nothing the working man, aka proletariat, hates more than he hates a whining, college-educated little communist bitch. The proletariat is on our side, he loves his country and his family, which is why he voted Brexit and Trump.
>If a capitalist is drinking your milkshake, he has already exchanged it for something you value more.
what? that's not how economics works. by definition that's not your milkshake, only if you are the owner of a business selling milkshakes. also you do not choose voluntarily that the owner can take a large portion of your wage away
Because I'm talking entirely about the revolution part. How many communists are more or less just interested in killing people? It's a revolution, it requires blood, people have to die, how many of you fucks are really only interested in murdering people and as for everything else could care less?
Antifa commies are controlled opposition, complete useful idiots funded by the satanic manipulators in power, same story with the alt Reich, a false dichotomy to keep humanity enslaved. To anyone in this thread who might be impressionable and buy into some of these sick beliefs, I would reccomend reading up on some David Icke and listening to Mark Passio's podcast, everything will start to become crystal clear
huh? You're projecting a lot there buddy.
I know because my family illegally immigrated to the U.S you don't know shit about the proletariat
>man I really want communism to work one day, Rage Against the Machine is such a good band dude
>I cant bring a substantial argument to this communist so i'm going to make fun of him personally
What substantial arguments could I possibly bring up that haven't already been in the academic sphere for a long time? Deep down you know communism is bullshit. It hasn't worked, it will never work, and your beaner ass needs to take that shit back down to beanerland.
>you do not choose voluntarily that the owner can take a large portion of your wage away
Yes you do.
That's called opportunity cost.
You are """paying""" the business owner the opportunity cost of the full value of your labor, and in exchange, you don't have to deal with the risks of running your own business
Don't like that? Start your own business and work for yourself.
okay i will
Faggots.
>this is what a Mexican utopia looks like
>illegally immigrated to the U.S
That makes you an invader, not a prole. You're the sort of scum who dismisses the other underclasses (hillbillies, chavs, white trash) for holding the 'wrong' opinion, while claiming to represent the masses. You don't represent shit.
You understand the Mexican government has bombed them, the paramilitaries have burned their infrastructure and they live in the shittiest part of mexico on the order of the Mexican government
Live a little in mexico then tell me how the proletariat are doing.
also do my people a favor and get rid of your stupid fucking imperialist NAFTA
>yfw communists are so deplorable that even the cartels cant stand them
A common quest of the left is basically to raise what society deems to be an accepatable level of violence. Partly because it's a spectale and leftys need a society of the spectacle if the pigs are dancing their asses off.
>the shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes
So it can't be marxism then. Marxism is purely concerned with historical materialism.
>onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.
Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics. To deprive the worker of his class consciousness is literally antithetic to marxism.
>In the 80s
So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years? Therefore that means the 60s degeneracy had nothing to do with it, right? I'm just trying to follow your argument.
>Since everyone is one of either homosexual, female, not European, not Christian or even fat, they then use this resentment, especially when they directly hate the other that they feel can't understand their pain, to promote violence and aggression towards the other.
Ok ok, so let's assume for a moment cultural marxism "made sense" as you described it...how exactly is spooking the working class with idpol memes going to help them rally together to seize the means of production from the ruling class? But maybe that's just my nogging jogging too far...
>imperialist NAFTA
>free trade is imperialism
Do you communists go to a class on calling things the opposite of what they really are?
>freedom is slavery
>ignorance is strength
>not starving to death is oppression
>mfw the Mexican utopia still looks better than Detroit
have fun with your niggers :)
>be faithful red army soldier
>get captured
>stay loyal to the party
>get freed from captivity, then summarily executed by the same people you dedicated yourself to
This is the fate that awaits you, commies. This is the reward for your "revolutionary spirit".
All commies want is to murder people richer than them and take their money.
>using the word nigger
I thought commies treated everyone equally?
This is why I'm a centrist who think all extremists should be treated as terrorists.
No, they just want to kill. Look at Pol Pot, when he took over Cambodia, he extended an invitation to the Cambodians that had either left or fled Cambodia to the west, when they arrived they were rounded up and either tortured and killed or just killed. Communists are fucking mental.
they changed an article in the Mexican constitution.
article 27 to be exact depicting that the resources and minerals belong to the mexican people.
Nafta directly was against mexico
imagine people changing your constitution im certain you would go ape shit over that
I think were to a tipping point where all it would take to start a real race war would be a couple of really good trolls.
Write some anti white people shit on something public in some major cities. then maybe something REALLY racist on an MLK statue or something
>have fun with your niggers :)
>Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics
You're lumpenproletariat, Paco, not proletariat.
>My country is shittier than your country, so the experiences of people in your country are invalid
>Literal oppression olympics
I'm sorry we can't all be as poor and stupid as a commie beaner
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
Yes. Robbing them
you know trump wanted to take away nafta right and i wanted that so basically he would make mexico great
reason why i support trump not in the interest of america but in the interest of the people
> (You)
>>the shift of the classful ideas of Marxism from economic classes
>So it can't be marxism then. Marxism is purely concerned with historical materialism.
Materialism here arguably as the privileges people afford others purely for being white men, in which case the reality is "none" because resentful hatred is common in left wing societies. White men are the only oppressed class.
>>onto a new definition of demographic hierarchies such that white men are placed where the elite bourgeois were.
>Marxism is strictly opposed to identity politics. To deprive the worker of his class consciousness is literally antithetic to marxism.
And you're the arbiter of Marxism.. why? Have you heard of Horkheimer, Adorno and Herbert Marcuse? Are you deliberately misread? It's impossible to argue there are Marxist flaws with identity politics, it IS an identity politics of the proletariat.
>>In the 80s
>So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years? Therefore that means the 60s degeneracy had nothing to do with it, right? I'm just trying to follow your argument.
The 60s degeneracy opened up an opportunity for Soviets in the 80s who needed people to convince they are oppressed.
>Ok ok, so let's assume for a moment cultural marxism "made sense" as you described it...how exactly is spooking the working class with idpol memes going to help them rally together to seize the means of production from the ruling class? But maybe that's just my nogging jogging too far...
This entire paragraph is devoid of an argument and is completely silly, responding to it would mean losing this argument because it would drag me down.
How long until we can openly hunt commies? Feels like it'll be in the next couple of weeks.
Sorry limey that wasn't my point
This guys makes a good point. Past revolutions were about the proletariat seizing the means of production with the goal of eliminating class. But now we've had decades of marxist analysis on various oppressor/oppresee sub groups, like men/women, white/non-white, cisgender/57 genders, straight/lgbq.
So your revolution will not end with abolishing the rentier class, but will continue until the group at the top of the progressive stack is in power, and all those other groups (male/white/cisgender/straight) are sent to the gulag.
>So cultural marxism must have only been around for 30 years?
I don't think you paid any attention to his point.
Marx said you have to cast aside all that can't adapt, user.
So yeah, you want then "gone". In practice, that was killing.
your parents probably fled some third world socialist shithole and here you are trying to recreate the suffering.
> third world socialist shithole and here you are trying to recreate the suffering.
>mexico
people in this thread are calling me a beaner
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
The irony is, one of those people getting killed is themselves.
Disgusting. What gives you any right to try to guide our politics? You probably actively dislike America.
Move to Venezuela cunt.
So keep your commie shite contained to your poor hellhole of a country. We don't need you larping queers prancing about and shitting things up here.
if you are a beaner the only thing keeping your native country afloat is being the US's diaper
After recognising the underlying motivation of Marxism, which is exactly to cover up and misplace responsibility for mediocrity, it immediately becomes obvious that it's about dysgenics. The goal actually is to hold people back until more deserving people, whoever the Marxists say, are allowed to move forward.
Because people who can gain success will continue existing and striving for success, the Marxist must remove or handicap, sometimes permanently, these people since (especially at our stage of legislative equality) become oppressive purely by existing.
At this stage, of course it's not oppression. You can't blame someone for existing, you can't renounce another right to existence, therefore the Marxist becomes the oppressor and reacts in a not dissimilar way to how a white supremacist reacts, they'll even turn their nose and pretend they're smelling something vile.
I am not, I call all Marxists the same
Weak, pathetic beta who is literally failing at the soft challenges thrown at them. You're under 30 and think you need help with your problems, let alone government help?
Venezuela isn't communist cunt it just nationalized its resources and made more Democratic elections in fact a ot of the political instability in Venezuela is through coups
also i hate america the government but not the people
I believe your veterans need to be taken care of but the only way of doing that is using socialist methods such as state help and more. universal health care and more.
>Do communists actually want anything other than killing a bunch of people in "le ebin revolution"?
see venezuela for what they want. Single party state. government control of capital.
>I am not, I call all Marxists the same
Weak, pathetic beta who is literally failing at the soft challenges thrown at them. You're under 30 and think you need help with your problems, let alone government help?
>and you are so much better right? good for you
>IT'S NOT REAL COMMUNISM
>REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED
Like clockwork.
>not real communism
Yeah, fuck you, I am. I picked a degree that would contribute real value and kept applying for jobs right through peak feminism, I had resumes "disappears" (I had a friend at the company) was rejected for cultural reasons and was even black listed by recruitment companies, because someone somewhere argued giving me a job wasn't equality. A Marxist somewhere argued to fix the wage gap by redistributing my career to a brown woman.
I am better than you, you piece of shit. So are most people reading this.
dumbass
soviet union was communist
cuba is communist
china is communist
north korea is communist
Venezuela is not communist not because not real communism because it does not fit the criteria of a communist nation
okay have fun with being better than me im certain thats going to matter when your dead
>Materialism here arguably as the privileges people afford others purely for being white men, in which case the reality is "none" because resentful hatred is common in left wing societies. White men are the only oppressed class.
Made zero sense. I reiterate this simple point to you: Marxism is only concerned with materialism and economics. If it ceases to advocate for a proletarian revolution where the private means of productions are redistributed to the workers, then it cannot be marxism. That's its entire reason to be.
>Adorno, horkheimer, marcuse
Not orthodox marxists, really far in fact. If anything they were huge critics of grand narratives like marxism, consumerism, fascism, etc.
Also they went a lot further than Gramsci (who was still an orthodox marxist) who simply sought to understand how the means and relations of productions influenced culture, in particular high culture, which he thought was being degenerated by rabid consumerism. Adorno and Habermas took it much further and from there was born critical theory, which is so distant from marxism there's no connection in their purpose or their method.
>This entire paragraph is devoid of an argument and is completely silly
Not really. I'm just trying to hammer the point that marxism is about the alienation of the worker from their labor under a capitalist model and how to remedy it. It specifically states that the economic base is the root cause of all social, cultural and political structures. Tackling that 3-headed hydra head-on through "cultural warfare" is a pointless endeavor, whereas seizing the means of production will slay the beast immediately without the resources to support it.
Whichever way, I don't really see how any of this amounts to a conspiracy to destroy the west from within. You got a bunch of people criticizing consumerism and how it erodes high-culture and its traditions. That sounds like the exact opposite of wanting to destroy western culture.
>soviet union was communist
>cuba is communist
>china is communist
>north korea is communist
You can't possibly be saying we've finally found true communism TRUE COMMUNISM AT LONG LAST? Let me guess these places are shitholes and its capitalism fault.
>china is communist
>north korea is communist
pham...
>badly grammatised nihilism
You're 12??
>Made zero sense. I reiterate this simple point to you: Marxism is only concerned with materialism and economics.
Yes, you may dishonestly focus on economics as if their main gripe isn't the gender pay gap. At this stage you know I won't accept that Marxist feminism isn't Marxist.
>the private means of productions are redistributed to the workers, then it cannot be marxism. That's its entire reason to be.
More so owned by one group and not owned by another, in technological societies the means of production are not large machines in factories, continuing this argument under that definition would unfairly advantage you, but in fact any skill or experience.
Therefore redistribution becomes unequal opportunities to provide pathways or roads specifically and exclusively for minorities to gain skill and experience. This has the effect of completely ostracising the privileged group in order to socially engineer away any beliefs that the privileged group is capable of intellectual work.
This is the current means of redistribution and is entirely communist because there's no one besides brainwashed Marxist feminists implementing this, at least half the time though civil disobedience. HR are giving inferior workers jobs beyond their skill set to redistribute careers away from white men and to hurt the companies they work for. It's absolutely anti capitalist.
>>Adorno, horkheimer, marcuse
>Not orthodox marxists, really far in fact. If anything they were huge critics of grand narratives like marxism, consumerism, fascism, etc.
Not pure enough for you? Not a true enough Scotsman?
Totalitarians are just psychologically damaged.
You are not, have not been, and never will be a member of your precious proletariat. In Communist revolutions middle class people like you are lynched in the streets and your possessions seized by masses of your less-well off 'comrades'.
are you calling him a capitalist? bit rude
>me im defending communism
> TRUE COMMUNISM AT LONG LAST? Let me guess these places are shitholes and its capitalism fault.
hurr derr
how the fuck is Cuba and DPRK still around even with the sanctions imposed by the U.S
40 lashes & 12 months hard labor for OP! Anyhow--- YES! We will put you Trumptard Neo-Nazi Capitalist pigs in re-education camps! DEAD FUCKING SERIOUS!
Why can't communism compete?
please try to run a island nation under capitalism with sanctions from the U.S and let me know how that tuned out
>Yes, you may dishonestly focus on economics
I'm really not. Literally ALL the revolutionary socialist states explicit it. Their main purpose is to establish worker ownership of means of production through a proletarian uprising.
>Not pure enough for you? Not a true enough Scotsman?
Well, they're basically the autists of communism. What they research is interesting but in reality of very little use to class warfare. We already know the capitalists shape popular culture and use bourgeois propaganda to discourage the workers from joining any proletarian movements.
And like I said, they literally did nothing wrong. Adorno wrote an entire book on how capitalists, being naturally motivated by profit, would hold nothing sacred and instead of protecting culture, would leave it vulnerable to the corrupting influence of the free-market which would vulgarize and debase it of any real meaning. His entire ethos was precisely the opposite of what you say, he actually wanted to protect western culture.
Still doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me.
Didn't answer the question.
>you're 12????
yep best comeback good job sir i shall proceed to end myself
That would be preferable.
it really can a good look is with Thomas Sankara who was on the way of making his country free from imperialist control.
he was later killed in a coup funded by the french
No, my response was that I won't respond seriously to postmodern absurdity.
>autists of communism
Still of communism
Marxist showing once again how hypocritical they towards people with genuine problems, there's a reason you'd love to meme that blacks are more oppressed the autistic people because the former can be used for violence and adult autistic people do not do as well.
Your entire ideology is purely self serving, it's what makes it evil.
>hold nothing sacred and instead of protecting culture
Which is why he promoted critical theory and postmodernism, both of which are designed to be purely critical of western culture and to cripple western art to lower its standards and redistribute art careers to untalented minorities who struggle with western artistic conventions, techniques and skills. By legitimising their art you allow them to produce "values through art, accessibly.
Even art has been attacked by Marxists but once again
>create problems with capitalism
>claim those problems were inherent
Transparent and obvious, without ugliness being fashionable people are drawn to the ordered chaos that is highly intellectual art, the kind that can take decades of practice.
I'll enjoy holding a blowtorch on your face, communist rat.
All forms of idealistic utopias ultimately result in the same kind of failure (lots of violence, food shortage, etc.).
Also, communism is inherently fascistic. You cannot get people to voluntarily give up trading and private property. To do so requires force (so it is no longer for the people, but against the people), which requires a special group which has a monopoly of power and claims the right to use force. You wind up with the same groups, the proletariat, the oppressive government, and the bourgeoisie no matter what kind of system you have.
where did you get this view? was it from a molymeme video or something similar or did you develop this theory by yourself?
>both of which are designed to be purely critical of western culture and to cripple western art
lel no. I already explained. Adorno's critical theory was to critique POPULAR culture which is corrupted and being devalued by capitalism in its eternal pursuit of profit. HIGH culture, even bourgeois art, music or literature was never something he attacked.
Then you had retards who missed the entire point, and instead of critiquing how capitalist corrupts culture, they made it about identity politics. About how FUCKING WHITE MALES corrupt culture, which misses the entire fucking point. So yes, if you want to stretch the "cultural marxist" conspiracy to the max I suppose you could blame 80s and 90s retarded bourgeois kids who completely are misusing a critical apparatus developed by an eccentric marxist in order to criticize how capitalism is ruining everything it touches, even our art and other expressions of thought.
It's still not a conspiracy by a secret cabal of marxist-agents seeking to impose worldwide communism.
>Even art has been attacked by Marxists but once again
I can guarantee you 99% of people who call themselves marxists have never read Marx. Or Engels. Or Lenin. Or Kautsky. Or Trotsky. Or Mao. Or Stalin. You get the point.
All they probably know is that marx wanted "poor people to rebel", but they couldn't even explain you why or how.
Look I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Marxists and communists HAVE indeed criticized capitalist culture in the past, but that was always from a class conscious perspective to motivate the workers to unite and overthrow the capitalists.
Why would marxists seek to overthrow the current system and culture if we're already in charge? If anything we should be doing anything to preserve it. That's clearly not the case, is it.
You think it's "cultural marxists" when in reality it's the neoliberal elite who's pumping the entire population full of race and gender spooks to keep us divided.
So you believe in idealistic utopias? Oops, looks like you're the stupid one.
To understand requires a higher state of consciousness.
>make an omelette
And yet every time you follow this recipe, you burn the house down instead