Is a white ethno-state ideologically possible considering the fact that even the whitest of Americans is descended at some point from immigrants? If ethno-states in general are to be supported, with strong national political roots, shouldn't our focus be on a) returning to western europe and from there b) discouraging immigration and multiculturalism?
It seems disingenuous to demand a white ethno-state in America when our ancestors literally did exactly what we're fighting against.
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Yeah it's impossible. It's just a fantasy that is collectively embraced by a bunch of masturbating, unhealthy, socially inept basement-dwellers. It will never happen.
In 30 years I am going to look back at all you alt-right retards and laugh, because your dreams will be crushed beyond recognition. Ohhhhh boy do I look forward to that day.
It does seem odd to establish such a thing in America, I could see it being more likely in Canada based on the environment excluding current government.
Even so I'd rather focus on supporting our native lands than colonies.
Needless to say though I don't want the USA or any other commonwealth nations to become melting pots either.
Keep making out that you're special and you'll push even centralists into hating you lot.
I don't think it can happen in America either - it's a nation that was literally founded on immigration. But I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a white ethno-state, or promoting the welfare of the white race - I think it should happen, however, where the white races originated. Which would be western europe.
I don't think you will be seeing your dreams realized either, if your flag is any indication. Do you wish to see whiteness cease to exist as a race or something?
I'm not gay, just chose this flag for fun.
No, I'm just realistic about how the future will unfold. The current trajectory in the West is towards an increase in non-whites relative to whites. I do not believe this can be halted. I could be wrong, but based on the evidence I don't really see how.
Not saying that an increase in racial diversity is good or bad, it's just what is going to happen regardless. Might as well embrace reality and stop living in a fantasy.
I don't think America could be the starting point for it. If it started to happen in other western countries though, I think either American whites would push for it militantly, or there'd be massive white flight from the U.S. to other Anglo sphere nations that are ethno states.
We took in white immigrants, and we took them in during a time where we had a giant country from sea to shining sea to fill with settlers. Don't conflate that with shitskins that are only coming in now after the fact just to get gibs.
>b-b-but muh indians
We beat them. Deal with it. I'm looking out for the interests of my people, shlomo. Take your universalist bullshit and shove it up your ass.
Also what said. Our ancestors were completely against non European immigration. A lot of more purist ones where even against Southern and Eastern European immigration. Our ancestors did not do what we're fighting against, because we're exclusively fighting against non-white immigration. I think America is great as a melting pot, a European melting pot. That's it.
>and we took them in during a time where we had a giant country from sea to shining sea to fill with settlers
i think thats really important, the immigrants that built the country were pioneers, taming the wild frontier even though its a tougher life. the immigrants today wont be taming anything, their quality of life will only improve as they collect welfare
>founders make a literal, de jure white ethnostate
>only white people can be citizens, literal white nationalism
>uh, guys, isn't following their lead somehow disingenuous because, like, we're all immigrants?
One huge factor is birth rate. Western European whites aren't procreating enough because having a large family makes having the next best house/car/home entertainment system much more feasible. If white people actually started embracing their race and heritage and went back to having large families, we wouldn't be seeing this decline. There is still a chance of that happening.
>An increase in racial diversity
That's kind of the opposite of what would happen though. Less races overall means less diversity. More people of the same race does nothing for diversity.
Which is fine. If folks want to embrace their heritage and return to their ancestral homelands, more power to them. I would likely end up being among them.
>We beat them. Deal with it.
You mean, we tricked them, and killed a lot of them. If you're fine with underhanded tactics being used and almost entirely eliminating the native peoples of this country, why are you so rustled when the same starts happening to us? This country was never ours to begin with, but nice strawman.
Okay, great, so they didn't want other immigrants interfering with their own immigration. What justification did our ancestors actually have for cheating and killing the native people who lived here?
Taming land that had already been claimed and already tamed in part by the people who first settled the country.
No the point is, they were immigrants to begin with. If your only claim to a justifiable white ethnostate is "whoever can claim it gets to keep it :DDD" then you're literally practicing doublethink with the situation going on right now.
>Taming land that had already been claimed
so?
>and already tamed in part by the people who first settled the country
not even close
What's your point? If they hadn't gotten to paved roads yet, that they didn't /deserve/ their ancestral lands? To what lengths will you go to justify their actions?
I thought the whole point of conservatism was to embrace one's heritage, tradition, and conservative ideology. Virtually eliminating an entire race of people doesn't really seem like a measure of conservation, especially since we kind of stole their land. Please, explain to me how I am wrong.
I don't think you understand. I don't have to "justify" the existence of my people to you, nor "justify" our pursuit of our own self-interest.
>this country was never ours
We literally made it. As a white ethnostate. Of course it was ours, and some of it may be again. Your premise is inherently flawed to begin with. Do you also believe western Europeans should pack up and head east?
You're saying a lot that could be more succinctly summed up as "might is right." I guess my question is, why should the white ethnostate be here, when we could be doing something to encourage the native people to return to their own ancestral lands?
You want a white ethnostate. Fine. I do too, actually! But again, the original white ethnostate that was here, was by its nature revoking the sovereign right the native people had to their OWN native ethnostate.
If you really don't give two fucks about that, then just say so. Trying to disguise hypocrisy is what upsets me: if you're honest about it, then whatever.
I always try and mention in those Midwest-Reich larper threads, that I actually haven't seen in about a week so maybe they gave up, that a Pennsylvania German identity is the best way to go. It's a colonial American identity that is inclusive enough to absorb other white Americans but unappealing enough to attract the interests of non-whites, it also has its own language and cultural practices that would work to set it aside from the greater society of mixed peoples in a way that Anglo-American identity can no longer
An actual ethno-state is a stupid idea, we're fine if we can just keep out birthrates up and keep our relatives and descendants from intermixing with non-whites
>you're saying might is right
No, I'm not. You're still not getting it. It's not about might or right, it's about our existence being non-negotiable, period.
>why here?
Because we're here, it's what our country was founded upon, and why should we just turn off the lights and leave?
>revoking the sovereign rights of the native people
This is largely a different topic, but I strongly believe that our approach to the natives was flawed. I'm not a "kill them all" kind of guy; I think we should have approached the various extant nations as sovereign entities, said "yeah, we're settling a lot of the essentially post-apocalyptic land around you, but you don't have to join our little club, and we won't fuck with you. If you eventually see the benefits of some kind of arrangement with us, let us know." We would have expanded more slowly, I think, but the world would be a different place. Imagine a North American Confederation of European and Amerindian nations that work with each other when necessary/desirable and respect each others' boundaries otherwise.
>hypocrisy
In no manner.
>What's your point? If they hadn't gotten to paved roads yet, that they didn't /deserve/ their ancestral lands?
life is brutal, we have created societies that allow the individual to be protected from most of lifes harsh realities but they are not eliminated, the responsibility is only moved upwards to a higher level. If the europeans didnt take the opportunity to establish themselves over the indians and others they would undoubtedly been overrun by the steppe people to the east or the muslims to the south who had greater opportunities to expand and increase their power, you would not be here trying to shit on your ancestors for giving you a great life at the expense of others you would be working hard for someone elses ancestors who took the opportunity to establish themselves, why is that something better?
>I thought the whole point of conservatism was to embrace one's heritage, tradition,
yeah, your own
>especially since we kind of stole their land
you wont find any society in history who didnt steal land and kill other people, you know why? if they ever existed they were killed by someone who wasnt so nice, and we would never even learn of their history.
I think the usa could never be an ethnostate though because "white american" just isnt enough to form a real ethnic bond over
NATIONAL
SELF
DETERMINATION
White Tribe you dirty scalping savages.... want another war?
> a crisis created by people can't be stopped by people, lol. Just give into the opioid haze and jerk off to porn.
America is a European nation, at points it was over 90% white. Everything the US was built on were derived from European values. Natives are irrelevant and literally wiped out, and they had no input on the actual development of the country itself. Same for nigs, they were just tools at best, and now have long outlived their usefulness. I do believe repatriation to Liberia is the only solution. We need to get the Black Nationalists on board and return to the land of "melanin", because apparently it makes them powerful. As for Beans from Mexico and beyond, forced deportations and strong employee regulations will keep them from ever coming back.
I don't view it as a crisis. Most white people don't actually care about race. Most people in the West in general don't care about race.
Who gives a fuck. You came, you saw, you conquered. It's yours now.
>our existence [is] non-negotiable, period.
What's done is done, at this point. We're here, yes. None of us chose to be born who we were, of course, but it is important to celebrate one's heritage. I'm just saying, it smacks of impropriety to suggest re-establishing the old white ethnostate in America, after revoking another ethnostate's existence, and then pretty much genociding them.
I totally agree with your views on how we should have treated the native people. If the land we settled, tamed, and conquered was land they weren't using, or otherwise hadn't yet expanded into, then by all means. It's just that we DIDN'T do that. We claimed everything. And in the process, most of them died.
It's hypocrisy to continue to push a white ethnostate in America. We would be building it on the bones of the former ethnostate that used to be, and had every right to exist.
Not every advancement that is made for a people by a people must be at the expense of others. Basic economics suggests that there isn't finite wealth in the world, but that you can actually create value out of nothing. What happened happened, yes, but the colonization effort of the United States wasn't critically necessary for the continuation of Western European nations and races, it was primarily a business venture. And as the poster above you said, it could have been handled much more appropriately, if it had to be undertaken at all.
Ben Franklin was even against "swarthy" Swedes.
>mfw unswarthy Swedish-American
Yes. America is too valuable to let slip into the mud.
Get rid of the Jews and anything's possible
You can't have any ethno-state you tard, the idiots will immediately go "x isn't white y isn't white" unless you somehow revive Ghengis Khan, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Atilla, Timur, Vlad Tepes to run it
Pursuing one's own self-interest is in no way improper, regardless of what happened in the past. We don't "owe" anyone our demise because of the past. That's absurd. If I had a time machine, I might make some changes on behalf of the natives, but I do not owe their memory nor their descendants the blood of my kin or our future. Again, non-negotiable.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't envision any sort of sea to shining sea pure white ethnostate as viable at this point, mainly because we ourselves fucked up and threw away what our founders wanted. We're not going to have any kind of continental Rwanda-style massacres in the near future. If anything, it's far more likely that at some point of balkanization, enough white people of like mind will simply declare some portion of land theirs. Among those of us who recognize this, the northwest is frequently mentioned, and if I were in charge, I would absolutely line my territory with as many sovereign native nations as I could scare up and wanted to play, treat them like separate but equal neighbors, and dare the multicultural rump of the United States (or Aztlan Norte, or whomever was around) to fuck with them.
You never answered my question about everyone of western European descent. If those of us here should go back there, why shouldn't most of us just fuck off back to the steppe? What's the cut-off for "immigrant" vs. "native" in your mind?
Geography basically backed europeans into a corner, without colonialism i dont see any way they would have been able to compete with others who had much easier access to resources. it could have been handled more gently, but you make the mistake of looking down on them, and thinking of them as lessers. do you expect all of them to be friendly while you steal their ancestral lands? or will being nice while you oppress them just give them the time they need to adapt to the new technology and ideas and push you back, or at least weaken you enough that a less considerate group takes advantage of your relative weakness and oppresses both of you? I dont know exactly how the situation was there but kindness, while nice, just isnt always the best option
>Is a white ethno-state ideologically possible
Yes.
>It's hypocrisy to continue to push a white ethnostate in America.
No, it's not.
The USA was founded as a White country for White people. The Jews destroyed that. Now we can create an implicit White country for White people from the ruins.
That's a false comparison. I'm not saying we owe them our demise - I'm saying we owe it to them to consider a path that is substantially more compassionate, if we're to actually set an example here and not just be bloodthirsty warmongering expansionists. We don't have to push for white nationalism here in the US, where it's already fucked as you say. We would stand a much better chance if we focused our resources on supporting our own ancestral lands in Europe.
And what the hell are you going on about, about the steppe? My whole point is just that the people who first arrived, settled, and colonized a territory are the natives of that land. If you go as far back as the foundations of Western Europe, it'd probably be nothing but warring tribes constantly struggling to one-up the other. They likely didn't actually differ that much from one another, and whatever differences in their culture, have long since been lost to time. It's a shame, but that's rather different from the level of development the native american people had when the colonizing efforts of North America transpired.
The future White ethnostate has nothing to do with the what the USA might've done or might've been in the past.
The future White ethnostate has nothing to do with what the White race might've done or might've been in the past.
The future White ethnostate is about the future and survival of the White race.
There is a group.
There is a plan.
All that's needed are Whites who have the courage to take part.
>more compassionate
I think my idea of a white ethnostate that morally (and possibly, materially) supports Amerindian nations is pretty compassionate, at this point, given the realities on the ground.
>what the hell
>the people who first arrived, settled, and colonized a territory are the natives of that land
Right. So Indo-Europeans need to go back east. They weren't in western Europe first...we only conquered it a few thousand years ago. It's not a big deal or anything, I was just curious as to where you drew the line of "you need to leave because you're here now but you weren't here first."
>nothing but warring tribes constantly struggling to one-up the other
Rather like many of the Amerindians.
Given the realities on the ground, I would have to agree with you. The thought of at least doing something to involve them in the future of the country is certainly better than nothing.
I quite like your ideas, actually.
Many of the Amerindians certainly were just squabbling quite like the european tribes of antiquity. Which is why my point was Indo-Europeans /shouldn't/ go back east. They weren't in Western Europe first, but during that time the differences between the various tribes likely weren't that large to begin with, and they probably hadn't reached any kind of measurable level of development. Perhaps the line is a bit more fuzzy than I had initially anticipated it to be.
The Americas are fucked in terms of ethno states and burgers are too mixed to get into any ethno state in Europe
However if you do an ethnic cleansing over there you might have a chance
>The USA was not founded as a white nation
I think what white nationalists need to realize is that the US is not ready for those ideas, yet. White nationalists should be embracing Civic Nationalism as a form of stepping stone. Take a page from the communist playbook, you must be more subversive.
Stop caring so much about a non-White race and start caring about the survival of the White race.
I can't take too much credit. My ideas towards the red man and how we should have dealt (and, perhaps, should deal) with them are somewhat influenced by Ben Franklin, even though he'd only consider me half-white.
>And while we are, as I may call it, scouring our planet, by clearing America of woods, and so making this side of our globe reflect a brighter light to the eyes of inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the sight of superior beings, darken its people? Why increase the sons of Africa, by planting them in America, where we have so fair an opportunity, by excluding all blacks and tawneys, of increasing the lovely white and red? But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my country, for such kind of partiality is natural to mankind.
>pro-Whites need to start acting anti-White
Wrong. If anything, we need to act more extreme to force everyone to choose a side (pro-White vs anti-White)
The US always could have sections with different Ethnics and cultures of Europeans
of course you would say that
...
Why does no one talk about how you are encouraging inbred diseases like the jews? Diversity in breeding ensures a stronger immune system and better genetics. Yall are dumb for trying to stay white
>I failed biology, but passed my Morning Propaganda gatherings with a firm gold star
Because you're verifiably wrong
guess genetic diversity is bullshit, idiots
Calling people names won't magically make you more educated, friend.