There is not so much the thinnest sliver of evidence that the brain generates consciousness.
Anyone who thinks that it does is essentially a dumb animal, even lower than a nigger because not even niggers believe that the brain generates consciousness.
Why do people fall for this materialist meme?
Then what does?
>>Brain does not generate consciousness...
>>removing brain removes consciousness.
What do you imply the brain is some sort of 'receptor' for consciousness? like a satellite dish?
And how is it transferred? The brain doesn't seem to be emitting or receiving any form of energy other than signals to the body.
We can make people vegetables by removing parts of the brain, how do you explain that?
Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that.
define "consciousness"
The moon
>he doesn't have intention manifestation
sucks for you normie
Who knows? But there's no evidence the brain generates it. Maybe consciousness is the fundamental substrate of reality, and the brain is something that consciousness dreamed up?
Don't u see the pic u dumb
It's a mini black hole made by the pineal gland in the core of the brain that sucks galaxy enegry into conciousness. Smaller animal brains doesn't suck that much star powder so they are not conscious and only live to fuck and eat sunflower seeds
What a dumb, delusional, piece of shit you are.
Worthless aussie
Consciousness is more fundamental than language and therefore cannot be defined in words.
But if you are conscious, then you know what I mean by it, definition or no.
Then how do you explain physical substances like alcohol altering your consciousness so much?
>removing engine stops the driver from being able to use the car
Could humans have been created by cars?
What do you mean? We can explain the tide.
You can't make an assertion based on evidence, "There is no evidence" that the brain generates consciousness..
and immediately defend that argument with "there are other things that can't be explained"...
If your big defence is it can't be explained, why even care if there is or isn't evidence.
Why not just say the consciousness comes from the back of elephants standing on an infinite tower of turtles in space?
Fpbp, I'm curious too.
>brain doesn't generate conciousness
>anesthetics that knock you unconcious and block certain pathways in brain such as memory, pain exist
>consciousness not product of brain
are you retarded?
i think the argument is the brain is just another essential organ, like your heart or lungs, and consciousness comes from somewhere else
CNS projects consciousness.
reincarnation is unfalsifiable.
submit to truth religion theocratic supremacist dictatorship or be reincarnated as a pig.
yawn.
nothing does. everything is generated by consciousness. "god" is essentially infinite, eternal conscious awareness. that's pretty much it.
That was my theory, that the brain is an antenna of sorts
Hmm?
It proves the engine and the driver are neccesary for the car to go forward if nothing else.
Similarly the brain is a necessary part of consciousness.
Intention is the result of perspective which is the result of conscious awareness.
Consciousness=being aware of your existence
Animals do know it since they reproduce and avoid being killed by predators, we put words in it as well as social meanings but still nothing but a fancy unknown philosophical shit.
The brain is basically useless. It's like thinking you need a kidney to live
it's awareness, like the feeling of being alive... it's something that has potential but has no innate qualities itself.
I agree with you.
A question to people who argue otherwise: Does simulating a brain in a computer generate consciousness?
>like a satellite dish?
yes that's exactly it
What'll really cook your noodle is when you become aware you can sense the intention (and thereby, perspective) of others. Output like any other waves are, people are generally only subconsciously aware of them.
But WHAT is aware of its existence? If we made a robot as complex as a human would there be a "conscious" observer inside that, looking out, or would it just operate automatically, seeming like a living being but not having that observer?
there is no such thing as consciousness
But removing the heart stops bloodflow, killing other organs in the time taken for those organs to starve from lack of oxygen.
Removing lungs stops blood being oxygenated and we can detect the oxygen levels dropping causing other organs to fail.
Removing the brain seems to remove consciousness, and stops the signals that keep the heart and lungs beating, causing other organs to starve causing death.
The brain doesn't cause a SECONDARY effect other than removing consciousness (besides stopping signals to other body prarts).
But we don't observe any form of data in any kind we know going in and out.
Either we have to invent a whole new way that data can be transferred that people haven't discovered in thousands of years of the smartest men considering problems...
Or perhaps the brain does generate consciousness.
not really, consciousness isn't contingent upon the brain.
>>>removing brain removes consciousness.
how do you know
>we can not determine them conscious
how do we determine if they are conscious
>responsiveness to stimuli
So a form of communication
This just means we can't communicate. It would be like saying everyone outside of earshot is braindead.
Removing the radio doesn't remove the radio waves
Consciousness is just your brain's ability to create a personal narrative based on memories.
>KIDSS9/R
That's an unfortunate ID for a serious discussion
but removing everything but the head removes consciousness too explain that
>Why do people fall for this materialist meme?
Because negatives can't be proven.
Okay, for the people who live under rocks, I am making a reference.
youtube.com
>There is not so much the thinnest sliver of evidence that the brain generates consciousness.
I know. I was arguing against someone and got them to agree that hairbrushes were conscious because they wouldn't accept this. It's the same as people saying how computer AI will one day generate consciousness.
If you say a computer can generate consciousness, you have to realize any computer you build with electrical circuits and logic gates, the same computer could be built with wooden gears. And those wooden gears could theoretically be a bunch of hairbrushes or ANYTHING strung together into a mechanism which is built to react upon input to the system/mechanism.
By this logic most people I've asked will agree that a hairbrush does not have human consciousness, but most also agree that one day we might be able to string a more than one hairbrush together in the form of gears which will THEN be able to generate consciousness. It's fucking retarded. If one hairbrush (1 gear, 1 circuit, whatever) has no consciousness, then any number of them in combination will also never have consciousness.
>Removing the brain seems to remove consciousness
But it doesn't anymore than removing the lungs. The only thing is the time it takes.
>doesn't cause a secondary effect
But it does
Oh wait, you've already a-priori ruled that out, looks like you win again.
go and hit you head really hard into a wall or have a stroke. You, or rather other people around you, will understand why consciousness is in the brain
This is probably pretty close to reality.
Consciousness must be something like a 'optical' illusion. But a reality illusion.
When you take memories and stack them deep enough and connect them in nutty ways they form something that 'reacts' so randomly it appears to be generating it's own order.
Without memory the human brain fully formed would be a blank slate, completely unconscious.
all of the buildings, all of those cars
were once just a dream
in somebody's head
what is the point of discussing a concept that boils down to "C'MON MAN YOU JUST KNOW"?
why do i give a shit which organ produces it if you can't give me even a framework for what it is or means?
this is true in a way also, because the "ground of being" has no qualities and is beyond the understanding of mind. it's not a concept, because concepts are actual things. it's beyond that.
Yeah, all we are are experiences, repeated and reused.
What I am interested in is the first experience
mothafuckin prometheuz
What if the brain is like the controller and data storage for what is essentially like a player character in a game and the player can leave but not take the experiences and personality stored with them?
Woah you see deep jerome
Prove the consciousness exists.
Pro tip: you can't
Removing everything but the head, causes consciousness to remain until the brain stops functioning due to lack of oxygenated blood/energy. This happens in seconds though.
there is no point, that's the whole point really. at the very heart of existence, there is actually no meaning at all. it just happens. or doesn't, because none of this shit is actually real. the only real thing is consciousness awareness.
>There is not so much the thinnest sliver of evidence that the brain generates consciousness.
Lemme guess, consciousness comes from Jesus?
en.wikipedia.org
People always look at it as a negative. Same principle as Schrödinger's Cat.
I read somewhere that consciousness resides in the stomach. I don't mean being hungry or well fed.
But that the stomach is the foundation of our being. It's where our soul lives. I'll try to find some sources; the articles I read mentioned nervous systems or something.
The interaction between numerous support systems for the human body allow the illusion of consciousness to be prevalent enough to make it seem as if it were disconnected. There is no one single part of the body that "is" consciousness, it is everything else.
>insert unrelated image so you people look at my post
>at the very heart of existence, there is actually no meaning at all
Well, that's wrong. Not only have I figured out the meaning of life but I also know the reason to existence. And I figured these things out without psychedelics too.
it's sort of more centered in the heart area
But what if conscious awareness doesn't exist as we understand it.
I think therefore I am sure...
But what am I? A thinking thing.
What is a thinking thing?
Could it be that a thinking thing isn't?
>there is no such thing as consciousness
says the unconscious one
we're just talking about the soul without using the word "soul" aren't we
All is one. We are individualized portions of infinity experiencing itself through free will and the illusion of separation. The cosmology of this material (densities, logos, macrocos to microcosm) is absolutely fascinating to me.
>lawofone.info
then you wouldnt have to die, id believe anything to escape that horror
Remove your brain then
No because the point is that unconscious beings cannot even form the idea of that question.
What is a wave without a current?
This is the nature of the paradox you are setting.
yes i get what you're saying, but beyond that, where all potential is possible, there is no actual meaning. all life could end, but it would have no effect on true reality, or conscious awareness itself. that continues on forever regardless. nothing can touch it, so it really has no meaning, and by implication this dream we are currently experiencing has no point.
Why not remove your brain, just to see how conscious you are then.
>The Brain Does Not Generate Consciousness
Why don't you get a lobotomy then OP?
This shit is already science. The brain is what causes you to be aware and it uses quantum effects to do that.
Y'all think the brain be like it do, but it ain't even like what it does.
>quantum
They don't, they just alter the contents of your consciousness. Your consciousness remains exactly the same - if you don't appreciate this, meditate more.
Yes and no. I think it's perfectly reasonable to argue that consciousness might be something qualitatively different than other observable things out there. Does that make it a soul? I dunno.
i think a better way to phrase it is the brain "allows" you to be aware, not "cause" it
>CNS projects consciousness.
There is exactly zero evidence for this.
Brain damage fundamentaly changes your life from personality to speech to consciousness... I have had real world encounters with family. They changed so much. My father use to be a hard working man went lazy and hated eating dinner with the family. My mom had it worse. Both had some form of brain ailment. I strongly believe the brain creates conscious and it's just the combination of all our sense mixed with them chemicals in our brain.
I would argue that we have no reason to believe that the ability to think or remember directly contributes to consciousness.
>brain damage can impair cognitive abilities and even basic speech
>multiple concussions are blamed for old football players and boxers not being able to formulate coherent sentence
but yea OPs right no proof its all just coincidence and pseudo science
/thread
>Anyone who thinks that it does is essentially a dumb animal
>Then what does?
>Who knows?
So if there's not a shred of evidence in favor of your favorite fairy tale either, but you call those who merely think differently 'dumb animals', then what epithet do you deserve, far below 'dumb animal'? Nigger?
Everything has the potential to influence everything else. It's why awareness is crucial.
Brain is a complex network, consciousness is an emergent property. Consciousness is a waste product of life, we are sufficiently complex that our consciousness is "self aware". Consciousness emerges from the material but is not reducible to it, as a work of art is not reducible to the chemical constituents of the paint, or individual brush strokes.
You're a pirate you should understand this dumbass
I think you can actually "prove" this. Get so wasted on the liquid jew that you can't see or walk straight. Yet you are still consciously aware like normal. You're normal "inside" but this doesn't translate very well through the "outside" via your intoxicated brain.
Question: Does simulating a brain create consciousness? Can AI be conscious? Why?
it's perfectly reasonable to argue anything when everyone involved refuses to define any of their terms or how they relate to one another
>This shit is already science. The brain is what causes you to be aware
Can you link to one single scientific paper, in the history of all of science, that proves that the brain generates consciousness?
It does, my evidence is that I am conscious. Though scientists will never be able to replicate this consciousness and also while the CNS is a part of it, it goes infinitely deep. We thought atoms were the smallest thing in the universe, then quantum, it will never end. They thought that life started on earth from a series of random reactions with atoms and molecules, but in reality it also involved the things those atoms and molecules are made up of interacting, and going infinitely deep.
Just like how we are seeing quantum is affected by observation, it's more complex & goes deeper than we know. That's how the atoms and molecules of the CNS can create consciousness. It is the atoms & molecules but also goes much deeper.
We could never replicate it just by copying the form of those atoms and molecules. We would also have to copy the form of the quantum, and everything else more small than that. But the universe goes infinitely small so that will never be possible.
Found the article:
scientificamerican.com
Also search 'stomach consciousness'.
Your statement about the heart is carries some validity, when you think about poetry, lyrics, symbolism about the heart and so on.
Many people will say that the brain is the primary organ of consciousness. Who knows? It's a compelling mystery.
My view is that all of our organs balance out and that there is no primary organ of consciousness.
My scientist overlords say it so I believe them
yes and yes, because the alternative would be unlike anything other we have witnessed - argument from queerness is a valid argument.
>consciousness is an emergent property.
This is pseudoscience. "Emergent property" = magic.
Sure we might be a conscious entity..But what is that? Sure we know it has the property of consciousness.. But consciousness and what else?Or just consciousness and nothing else at all?
This new field of neural networks is showing us that we can get some pretty unexpected things to emerge from essentially mechanical organisation of parts.
What if consciousness is further down this track, as it seems to be? What if I think the fore I am.. but what I am... is a collection of NOT conscious things?
To elaborate on this, a thinking thing is something that can form ideas. So there's your answer.
>there is no actual meaning. all life could end, but it would have no effect on true reality
Even if all life was to end at the same time, it would eventually spring back up because the point of the universe to give birth to life so that it may experience itself.
>Just like how we are seeing quantum is affected by observation, it's more complex & goes deeper than we know. That's how the atoms and molecules of the CNS can create consciousness.
This is a non sequitur.
Dumb metaphor, your confusing the mechanics with the messaging, whats the analogue with the hairbrush? A synapse? Synapses and neurons are just the medium through which the messaging passes, obviously no one thinks theyre conscious in themselves, they just provide the mechanics for consciousness to happen.
Judging by the fact though no one really knows what consciousness is or how it arises i agree all talk of machine consciousness is bullshit.
Stuart Hameroff, who has worked as an anasthesiologist for over 35 years would disagree. moreover recent research has indicated the brain can generate up to 11 dimensional shapes: the quantum mind.
>Emergent property = magic
no technology is possible, every system is a mere bag of parts, amirite?
when you put together the cogwheels and the clock starts working, that's the manifestation of an emergent property, you idiot.
take the time to understand the basic notions here.
You'd have no arguments to back up that claim.
>There is not so much the thinnest sliver of evidence that the brain generates consciousness.
>humans have biggest brain:bodymass ratio in the animal kingdom
>humans are the most "conscious" of any animal as far as we can measure
>if you damage the brain without hurting the body, a human will live but will not be conscious
>if you damage or disable specific regions of the brain, the human will live, but certain memories or emotions or modes of cognition become impaired
yeah no evidence that consciousness arises from the brain gee whiz