Fuck Neo Nazism

Remember back 2-3 years ago when it was normal for us to be pro-white, to side with our people, but to reject 'Stormfags' and say "There's literally nothing wrong with being a white nationalist" and "it's not racist to be pro-white" ?

Don't talk/think/act like a freak. Be a normal human, present your views. Show people that it's OK to be pro-white without being one of these neo nazi fucktards who constantly accuses everyone they don't like of being Jews
>inb4 idiots on this thread do that to me

Let's go back to those days.

We need a better route for White identity politics, what do senpai?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration_theory
thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece
counter-currents.com/2016/03/hitler-vs-the-untermenschen-myth-reality/
books.google.com/books?isbn=0745631770
well.ox.ac.uk/~gav/admixture/2014-science-final/resources/FAQ.pdf
cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(15)00137-8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>Remember back 2-3 years ago when it was normal for us to be pro-white, to side with our people, but to reject 'Stormfags'
This literally never happened, fuck off JIDF.

Fuck off Jew. 88 until I die. You're not welcome here.

>Norwegians
>Smart
pick 1

OP is a shill.

"MUH DICK NIGGA, MUH 88 MUHFUH"

Why won't 88cucks stop fagging?

I can see your nose from here

Friendly reminder that Hitler was a cute.

JIDF detected.

[arguments not detected]

>Nazi Germany
First country to outlaw inhumane animal testing and strictly punish animal cruelty.
>America
First country to kill hundreds and thousands of civilians with a nuclear weapon.

Tell me who the good guys are again.

>Jews
>want to stop people from larping like neo nazis
Pick 1

Try thinking before you post, nigga

>all this irrelevant history lesson crap
>helping to save our race
nah m8 yih dun g00fed

Calling you JIDF literally is the argument, if the history of Sup Forums is as "pro jew" you say it is then where did the JIDF meme come from?

Nice to see you revealing your true colors now.

>Jews
>revising the history of this board (in an attempt to shape its' future into one more friendly towards the Jews)

I'll pick two.

>me
>pro jew
No you dumbfuck, 88cucking is pro-jew, because it helps kikes to demonize our race. You're a tool.

stunning and brave

DAILY REMINDER

>Show people that it's OK to be pro-white without being one of these neo nazi fucktards who constantly accuses everyone they don't like of being Jews

[JIDF DETECTED]

>le triggered autistralian

come on goys, try some actual brain activity/thinking for once

He has been spamming this thread over and over now

At least Hasbara is getting paid for it, I guess

There is literally nothing wrong with killing soulless nips

No faggot, this is the first time I've re-posted this. You dumb natsocs are so pathetic, it's sad. "MUH JIDF" posts incoming, lads!

I don't have a problem with Nazi LARPers from an optics perspective. People need to get desensitized to that shit and stop losing their shit every time they see a swastika.
I do have a problem with the actual ideology of National Socialism because it's shit.
But I will say, for the sake of all that is decent and holy in the world, if you're a fat disgusting neck beard or ugly in any way, go be a lefty. Don't show up at right wing rallies, don't show up at libertarian conventions, don't LARP as a Nazi.

Liar, you posted this shit on the 18th too.

FUCK THIS JIDF MISINFORMATION THREAD, COME TO THE REAL INFO:
FUCK THIS JIDF MISINFORMATION THREAD, COME TO THE REAL INFO:
FUCK THIS JIDF MISINFORMATION THREAD, COME TO THE REAL INFO:
FUCK THIS JIDF MISINFORMATION THREAD, COME TO THE REAL INFO:

>. People need to get desensitized to that shit and stop losing their shit every time they see a swastika.
Agreed, user, and fair enough. The issue is that many of our people would want to come to white identitarianism, but the Nazism scares them away. After someone has been pro-white for years, they will stop giving a fuck about "Nazis", but it's important to get people in.

A good image, basically, is a political necessity. Simply telling a white person "hey, it's OK to be pro-white, it won't make you a 'nazi'" can make them seriously consider joining us.

pffff jesus fucking christ

You dumb natsocposters would be shot in the face by Goebbels for being such pathetically bad-at-propaganda faggots. You just re-post your NS shit.

None of this is an argument, either, and it's just edgy, not "more based" or even more rightwing than anything I've said.

I agree, but capitulating like a cuck doesn't win you friends and will always put you on the backfoot. While you may want to pander to normies scared by the vise of "muh naziism", if you ever step back and are completely apologetic for it, you'll never be strong and assertive enough in your message.

The best way to go about it is to go overboard and douse it in irony whilst still articulating the underlying pro-white message. Or to know that being provocative with a pro-white message is nothing to be afraid of, and knowing how to pervay a pro-white message without extreme overtones.

Also, you're a kike.

>N-none of this is an argument
Implying everything is a philosophical debate?
lol retarded kike. Nice Hasbara by the way, pretending to be "a white nationalist" or to even give two shits about Natsoc. 4/10 shilling faggot.

Reason for 88 is that once you realize who is trying to genocide whites, the only logical option is to get them first.

Daily reminder you're a kike and your Hasbara doesn't work here

At the moment I'm just curious how people like Sargon justify their continued hate of the nazis, hes meant to be a history expert so he should know all of the details, I don't recall him ever mentioning though things like how it was essentially the jews that overthrew the russian monarchy and started the soviet union

nazis are literally a bunch of halitosis jewfags larping as nazis but actually being nazis as well
i don't want to be associated with anyone with bad breath

Paleolibertarianism is where it's at. Still, gas up the choppers and the ovens.

the imperial cabal didn't give a shit about the nips- they were treated like worthless cattle for the war machine... arguably, the bombing saved them from themselves.

It's almost as if some force wanted things to turn out this way, spooky?

>Let's go back to those days.
Those days never existed rabbi

>German Natsoc just made up racial shit on the spot, educate yourself nigg
They did? Funny, what was mainstream science in Germany was mainstream science everywhere else, and much of it still is today. Genetics testing is validating most of the theories people claimed were "pseudo-science" back then. Maybe you should educate YOURSELF "nigg":

>Aryan migration theory proven by genomic studies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration_theory
thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece

>Racialist myths:
counter-currents.com/2016/03/hitler-vs-the-untermenschen-myth-reality/
books.google.com/books?isbn=0745631770

>A study by Firasat et al. (2006) concluded that the Kalash lack typical Greek Haplogroups such as Haplogroup 21 (E-M35),
>Some of the Kalash people claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers; and a recent genetic analysis has substantiated this belief.
>A study by Hellenthal et al. (2014) on the DNA of the Kalash people showed evidence of input from modern day Germany and Austria between 990 and 210 BC, a period that overlaps with that of Alexander the Great...
well.ox.ac.uk/~gav/admixture/2014-science-final/resources/FAQ.pdf
cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(15)00137-8

>but capitulating like a cuck
I would be cucking if I just shut up about the 88er faggotry fucking up white nationalism. I'm not going to shut my mouth and not argue with these idiots.

>Also, you're a kike.
oh, you're stupid, good to know

No, the 6,000,000 wants you to act like a nazi so they can demonize you and make you lose, easier.

extreme radical white nationalism =/= 88cucking. 88ism is just edgy shit to signal, it's not about saving the white race, it's about being "LE MOST EDGY" member of a dumb group that gets nothing done but makes anti-whites look better by comparison.

I hate Sargon, nigga. My whole point is that we need to be pragmatic. Acting/seeming like a Nazi to normal white people helps the left. Millions of whites are fed up with antiwhite rhetoric, and we can win them over. This isn't that hard.

Neo Nazis just make Jew assholes look like innocent victims to normies. This is why Jews broadcast images of dumbass Neo Nazis larping all the time. So obvious.

I'm not saying we need to be soft on our enemies, just that we need to frame ourselves so our people can join us. It's all about winning our people over to support their race.

If we can't accomplish that, nothing matters.
>inb4 natsocs post their lemming theory which justifies being a dumb useless piece of shit who doesn't advance the cause even one inch.

There has been some Jewish involvement in creating Neo Nazism. They want to stick pro-whites in the nazibox, and dumb idiots like this guy are helping the antiwhites to do that.

At least have an argument, faggot. Tell me why I'm wrong without calling me a kike. Pathetic.

exactly national socialists werent saviors of europe. they only cared about their country and viewed half of europe as trash.
fuck em

Natsoc racialism was pseudoscience, though. Race is real and all that, but for instance Iranians could marry and fuck German women under Nazi law, but Finns couldn't.

Stop thinking the fucking Third Reich was some kind of perfect state. It had flaws. Just admit it.

>inb4 you get called a Jew 1000 times by dumb stormniggers

...

>says Natsoc racialism was pseudoscience, though
I guess I'll post all the sources AGAIN proving you wrong, read them this time:

>Aryan migration theory proven by genomic studies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration_theory
thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece

>Racialist myths:
counter-currents.com/2016/03/hitler-vs-the-untermenschen-myth-reality/
books.google.com/books?isbn=0745631770

>A study by Firasat et al. (2006) concluded that the Kalash lack typical Greek Haplogroups such as Haplogroup 21 (E-M35),
>Some of the Kalash people claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers; and a recent genetic analysis has substantiated this belief.
>A study by Hellenthal et al. (2014) on the DNA of the Kalash people showed evidence of input from modern day Germany and Austria between 990 and 210 BC, a period that overlaps with that of Alexander the Great...
well.ox.ac.uk/~gav/admixture/2014-science-final/resources/FAQ.pdf
cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(15)00137-8

This!

what do you expect from socialists?

On the other hand, you wont like my opinion on jews aswell.
And the time to care whether or not someone calls us racist is over.

>the 6,000,000 wants you to agree that all white people are inherently Nazis and their mythology about the 20th century is true
FTFY, cuck.

lol this!

so you want to shitpost on a thread trying to help make white nationalism more effective...

do you...

A. Post a critique and counteropinion explaining your disagreement
or
B. Shit up an image about slide threads because fuck using your brain
You chose B...

I have to thank you for at least being respectful and serious. I'll check out your sources.

"inherently Nazi" is a practically meaningless term.

They want white people to think BEING PRO-WHITE IS NAZI. Fuck that. We need to win our people over. Are your memes helping to do that? No, they aren't. You're cucking to the antiwhite establishment by 88cucking.

>showing that Sup Forums is a natsoc board = being a dumb idiot.
>telling Sup Forums its not a natsoc board = priceless
at least have an actual critique of national socialism. All your doing is telling everyone you are a kike right now, throwing around attempts at insults....
>no argument

GLR helped the Jewish media brainwash whites into being afraid of white identity.

GLR was a good person, but he fucked up royally. He helped to murder the white race.

No, I'm telling you again and again and again...

Acting or seeming like a Nazi hurts white people and helps antiwhite... THAT'S IT. Prove me wrong, it's pathetically obvious.

You don't care about winning.

>Remember back 2-3 years ago when it was normal for us to be pro-white, to side with our people, but to reject 'Stormfags'

this is bait
or you're a newfag

...the brainwashed and chemically-castrated have become parasites themselves. That's ok. We still love you and will keep it up until you can finally cast off the buttplug of oppression.

Sage

>critique of national socialism
The economic boost of Hitlers Germany was largely due to the fact, that they focused on arms production.

socialism will always be bad

and they killed half of europe. you need to hear what my relatives have to say about them

>'Stormfags'
duck off jidf, shareblue of whoever the fuck you are

You're going to get labelled a nazi. It doesn't matter if you are or aren't, and I don't like the argument "may as well just be one", but capitulating and punching right isn't as useful as getting over it, shutting the fuck up and stopping caring. The media is not going to give white nats a fair shot, and disavowing only gives them ammunition to find an angle of attack and force white nats on the backfoot to capitulate.

If Richard Spencer were to say anything about the holocaust that came to disavowing it, it'd come down to him saying "then why are you a nazi, you piece of shit."

You're dehumanized already. Stop wasting your energy on trying to prove to leftists you're not.

In the case of normies that aren't put off by the stigma of white nationalism but are by naziism, they just have to know there's nothing wrong with standing up for your race and not to be afraid. Being called a nazi is inevitable.

The media is against you, and your enemies will always find an angle to attack you. Being a cuck that won't associate with "neo-nazi's" will only lead to infighting, division in small factors and weakness. Your strategy is divide and conquer against us.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler

It's too late to do anything to stop it. Saying "we're not nazis" is a waste of energy as nobody will ever respect you, and you'll be on the backfoot cucking much like the GOP today.

You desensitize people to the label of being called a "nazi". You don't have to be one or believe in it. Just don't let the buzzword weaken people.

The level of retardation in these people is beyond any salvation. They are the subhuman elements that the 3. Reich actually euthanized. We need to continue to distance ourselfes from the Nazi LARPers. There is a massive hidden support for white identitarian politics among whites (especially young males). We might actually have up to 50% of the white population in all of the West behind our cause. They are too politically correct, too scared of upsetting the established narrative perhaps even too scared of their own "evil" thoughts to speak up. So we must continue to relentlessly drive the agenda while also being good, friendly, upstanding citiziens until one day the dams may break. We must be better than our enemies and we must certainly never, ever appear to be in cahoots with these pathetic beta boys from the swastika fan club. We are at the crossroads. Will this movement die again like so many other after WWII or will this be the great change, the return of the King? Nazism will NEVER return. It is as dead as any ideology could ever be, it is burned and burried but we might have a chance to save the West with a new movement.

>GLR helped the Jewish media brainwash whites into being afraid of white identity.
He did? It seems like everyones fear of being called "nazi" is why he created the Nazi Party to begin with.

...

>socialism will always be bad
You think all socialism is the same? How new are you?

Man, half the people at UTR were thinking what the fuck was with the swastika guy. David Duke, Enoch, etc - noone confronted him.

The way I look at it is different - but I had my train of thought interrupted by a friend.

I am not a nazi. But does it matter? White Identity politics cannot be restrained by being called a nazi. It's the most iconoclastic white identity movement which says fuck you to anti-white, which is why people gravitate towards it.

Desensitizing people to the label is critical. Doesn't mean you have to be one.

>You're going to get labelled a nazi
see

What was wrong with Germany before the mudshit invasion?
quite a socialist country

>constantly accuses everyone they don't like of being Jews
maybe those fucking kikes should stop openly employing shill groups like CTR and JIDF

before GLR neo nazism almost didn't exist

he fucked up and helped the Jews

Government control is bad and socialism. Doesnt matter which.

All ancient peoples had some common places. But these were to my knowledge either religious or military places. Correct me if im wrong about the germanics though.
This sharing everything is christian

This

>before GLR neo nazism almost didn't exist
>he fucked up and helped the Jews
Funny, shills like you always say "before Hitler, it was fine to be a nationalist -- he fucked up and helped the Jews by being a nationalist and resisting the Jews trying to make nationalism taboo -- well, he made nationalism taboo!"
It's like the logic of a battered wife who attacks the cops after calling them on her violent husband. You're the battered wives of ZOG, and you want someone to make them stop beating you and raping you but you don't want to actually divorce them and move out.

widen the political spectrum and make space for a strong right again, that is what the left has done the last 2 decades
5-10% extreme right is necessary no one in the right mind want a majority extremist party

>Government control is bad and socialism. Doesnt matter which.
oh, so you don't actually study political ideologies, you're like some teenage anarchist or something?
>all governments are bad mmkay
Sure kid, well memed.

The only posters who EVER bring up Stormfront, stormfags, stormweenies, storm(x) are leftist faggots trying to make this place more comfy for them through half assed astroturfing consensus against their boogeymen. Fuck yourself you retard.

this

extremist government*
Perfect would be 40% right wing
sometimes making coalition with weirdos like green party or sub nationalists, sometimes making deals with extreme right

this

there's some truth to the idea that Hitler fucked over nationalism, but people like GLR made it a certain fuckup-

GLR, not even 20 yrs after WW2, dressed up like a Nazi and heiled Hitler for attention. Not even a generation after the USA beat Nazi Germany, he did that.

GLR had a lot of good things to say, but that was a major fuckup. You need to stop calling me a shill and tell me why I'm wrong. "Shill" is just what you call people you disagree with, I guess. Sad.

Also, again, I'm not pro-Jew. The JQ is real and it matters. ffs.

nah, this is false.

Stormfags are part of the reason why white identity movements have been weak shit. Stormniggers are basically just antiwhite tools. Stop trying to make our racial identity all about "muh Hitler", it's political suicide.

samestormfagging this hard should be illegal

>accuses me of samefagging
>two different IDs
How new are you?

i dont care about politics. Its a fools game
on the other hand, i agree that we should focus on society, but leave the government out.

You hero was not as bad as they portray him. But he sent thousand of young german lifes to death for "the common good"

Agreed. We mustn´t be afraid of the label "Nazi", it means nothing these days. However this does not mean we should BE Nazis! There isn´t just the frothing leftwing extreme, there is also the crucial majority of centered people with a distaste for the anti-white trend. They do differentiate. To them the friendly people of, for example, Red Ice Radio are not Nazis but the screaming and heiling thugs with the swastika tattooed on their forearm at UTR surely are! So desesitize away by not caring by wearily smiling when someone calls you a Nazi out of ignorance but don´t be a Nazi, that´s just retarded.

>samefag
check the id's faggot

>i dont care about politics. Its a fools game
Then GTFO of this politics board you fucking mong!

I'm saying you need to re-think this. Making your entire ideology about Hitler and WW2 is a lose-lose for the white race. We must appeal to average white people. Your brand of white identity is not doing that.

>inb4 you get called Schlomo Bergstein 200 times for this post

>We need a better route for White identity politics, what do senpai?
Richard Spencer is allegedly married to a jewish-russian immigrant woman, so good luck with that lmao

>Neo-Nazi term spooky spook
every person saying "I am pro-white" gets labeled as Neo-Nazi, and the self-proclaimed NN groups IRL themselves say that "Nazi" is a derogatory slur (for them) so idk what the fuck you're on about really

Reminder of Mahatma Ghandi himself speaking of Hitler as a friend in letter correspondence (while simultaneously _scolding_ Adolf for his violent warfare), while not being a Nazi or White himself, so get that stick out of your ass

>nah, this is false
No it isn't. I've been here for a decade and Stormfront was only ever an issue from 2007-2009 when they were spamming copypasta all the time. They disappeared because we shamed them all for being cringy larpers but the boogeyman factor never did. The only posters who mention stormfront or variations of storm(x) are pedestrian leftists who don't know the history of this board and can't even comprehend that it operates 100% free of stormfront influence. Sup Forums has eclipsed every other right wing platform on the internet and you are a retard for being fooled into believing that a backwater white nationalist namefag forum has ever mattered AT ALL. Stay retarded and keep exposing yourself.

>Richard Spencer is allegedly married to a jewish-russian immigrant woman, so good luck with that lmao
no this is just another retarded rumor

His wife is part Georgian, but mostly Russian. Whatever. Spencer has dumb views on Russia, he worships Russia.

>every person saying "I am pro-white" gets labeled as Neo-Nazi,
see Already explained this

This isn't about Stormfront, even. You can be a dumb stormnigger and never visit Stormfront. The point is that stormsperging helps antiwhites keep us marginal.

You know it's true. That's why everyone knows what Neo Nazis look like. The media broadcasts pictures of them everywhere. Jews get everyone to focus on Neo Nazis because Neo Nazis are pants-on-head-retarded at propaganda.

End of story.

>Acting or seeming like a Nazi hurts white people and helps antiwhite... THAT'S IT. Prove me wrong,
that's not it. your going to need to explain HOW it hurts white people and helps antiwhites first. Otherwise my answer would be "Acting or seeming like a Nazi Helps white people, and hurts antiwhites....THATS IT."

>However this does not mean we should BE Nazis
Dregs on this board that worship the Totalitarian Era of the NSDAP (1936-45) conveniently ignores how:

>Jewish takeover (Heydrich and others; many of them assigned with torturing prisoners)
>Religios infighting (Jewish Jesus-in-the-new-form-of-Irminism pushed by Himmler, vs flakey Theosophy light Armanen Runes (Von Liszt), vs some sort of suppressed-by-the-NSDAP AND disliked by Von Liszt "German Religious Thought" (Rune Yoga, Runic interpretations... 'Runen-Magie' book by Kummer (and others)

The religious life (Rune research from both Kummer and Von Liszt; both destroyed by the NSDAP party machine) and social life [the "Sieg Heil! roman imperial salute + enforced Mass Rallies was suggested to Hitler by some Crypto-Jew conservative guy, anyone ITT know his name?] was WAY different before and after the Night of The Long Knives year of 1934 (Hitler's closest friends/comrades, among them Ernst Röhm, killed and replaced by conservative Catholics + Jews in their place)

I dont need to be in favour of politics, to care about my people. also you havent disproven anything i said. im open for new opinions

let them worship their little hero and ignore real heros

Looks like someone fears the goyim

>Spencer has dumb views on Russia, he worships Russia.
This should settle it then, because Putin's mother IS jewish (but converted to Russian Church, ie assimilation just as liberal-athetist U.S. jews lmao)

>you can be a dumb stormnigger and never visit stormfront
You are being the dumb stormnigger here. Have you ever even visited stormfront or are you just larping as knowledgeable? Most users were against nazi larping so the entire basis of your point is moot.
>That's why the media knows what neo nazis look like
Ya it couldn't possibly be the regalia and cosplay taken to autistic levels could it? You dumb nigger. The actual nazi population on Sup Forums is tiny. Your perception is so radically skewed that you couldn't possibly be legit. You think wearing a polo shirt and carrying a tiki torch makes you a stormnigger?
>You know it's true.
>End of story.
You need to learn to better contain your Jewish impulses if you want to successfully astroturf white people into accepting your existence. Try harder next time.

My opinion is more along the lines of "It's okay to be pro-white, who cares if you get called a nazi".

It doesn't take "years".

The most powerful stuff is showing "racist" Allied WWII soldiers. That's a rustler for them.

I don't think anybody now has a poor image, even those that are stupid with swastikas. Like I mentioned before, David Duke at UTR was along the lines of "why the fuck has that cunt got a swastika" along with many others, but didn't tell him to take it down because he didn't want to be "that guy"

>revising the history of this board (in an attempt to shape its' future into one more friendly towards the Jews)
this

sounds like you need to kill yourself, faggot.

I agree that white identity should drop the entire National Socialist.
Hitler's National Socialism has nothing to do with white nationalist, it was pan-german ideology which put Germans first.
The entire idea of "National Socialism representing White Nationalism" was created by americans who divide their populace between "White and Black" nationalism.

National Socialism is a dead ideology of glorious past which only has bad modern stigma among normies today. Neo-Nazi skinheads have utterly decimated entire image of National Socialism today and is seen degenerate.
Put this great movement of past to rest already and try to create something new and better representative of modern struggle.

You will almost never convince some european people to be National Socialist due to stigma of past, people like poles, russians and rest of slavs. So in defence you will go into purity spiral of D&C tactics calling some people either kikes or not white.

>we will always be seen as nazis.
Doesn't mean we have to encourage it.

>Simply telling a white person "hey, it's OK to be pro-white, it won't make you a 'nazi'" can make them seriously consider joining us.
"I'm not a Nazi but-" rhetoric has been seen in

>Sweden Democrats
>Marine Le Pen
>Paul Joseph Watson and Alt-Gevalt Right (UK-American/Online)

consequently, PJW still gets media spotlight and The Sweden Democrats are expected to get around 35% in Sweden's election next year dsepite doing jack shit about their demographic situation (Jimmie Akesson, its Party Leader, literally said back in 2010 for the WASHINGTON POST that "Swedishness is not found in your bones or any part of your body, just your values", not being against lawful nonwhite settlers that pay Taxes and abide Law)

It's more authentic to say "We don't care about Hitler and the NSDAP era Germany" rather than ____having____ to perform a verbal Letter of Indulgence to the globalist media journalists about not being Nazi in order to get more famous :^), you should notice the difference too OP

Why is Richard Spencer on any news channel including Al Jazeera if he is """"dangerous""" to their self-interests? Why is Red ICE radio so """""""Alternative Media"""""" and allegedly Pro-White but its leader married to a jewess?