Expert: Military Options For Stopping North Korea Are 'Very Ugly'

>On Monday, retired US Army general and military analyst, Mark Hertling, spoke about the latest debacle concerning North Korea and its hydrogen bomb test.
>When asked about the test and current standoff between the U.S., South Korea, Japan and North Korea, Hertling plainly stated, "We always have military options, but they're very ugly."
>Defense Secretary Jim Mattis made a statement almost immediately after the newest bomb test on Sunday, saying the U.S. has "many military options" and threatened Pyongyang with a "massive military response" if any territories or allies are targeted.
>North Korea's biggest advantage (and deterrent to military action against itself) might not be its nuclear ICBM program, but its mass of conventional artillery which has been kept in range of South Korea's capital for decades.
>Seoul, a huge metropolis, is home to more than 25 million people.
>If the rogue state's nearby artillery and other conventional weapons are not destroyed immediately at the beginning of a conflict, experts believe tens of thousands - if not hundreds of thousands - could be killed.

basicgestalt.com/single-post/2017/09/04/Military-Options-For-Stopping-North-Korea-Are-Very-Ugly

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=4IGz7fWEmb0
nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Can you imagine the hidey-hole that fat fuck is buried in? That whole country is a fortress

False, one tactical EMP followed by a hail of tomahawk missiles on NK artillery emplacements while at the same time striking known nuclear facilities with bunker busting missiles will instantly win us the war. After the initial hour of those operations going on the "War" will be a cleanup operation / humanitarian crisis attempting to save whatever innocent population there is in NK. After the war starts there will be sects of NK that rise up against the government. Another factor however will be foreign involvement from Russia and China. Those are the wildcards, I believe they will not interfere as long as we give them the northern part of NK when the fighting is "over".

Typical retarded Americans. War is always you answer, and you believe everything that is regurgitated to you. He is no threat to the US, but yet you all scream 'nuke him.' Your government will convince you into anything.


youtube.com/watch?v=4IGz7fWEmb0

>instantly win us the war.
>t. never done war

Trying to act like you know about when your group is currently being reviewed for a ban from the military. If you think NK would have any chance of winning with no power, mechanical artillery, or nukes then it shows what you know about war.

The point I was making was that the chance of extreme destruction would be over at that point and the remaining "war" would be a cleanup and humanitarian crisis.

...

SK has tons of bunkers and I doubt half of the norks artillery even works. They'll be fine

None of this effects me in the slightest. I will not be drafted and I live next to Northcom. If I get bombed the world is over and you're all dead. I'm going to back to my naps now. so sleepy

>your country
>checks flag
I think you mean your country as well, buster brown.

If China wants to keep manufacturing walmart garbage for the US economy then they need to take Kim out. That's all it would take.

Why not just leave the norks alone? They aren't going to attack anyone because they would be annihilated.

>doubt half of the norks artillery even works
you have no proof to make that assumption

>Wake up
>Still no nuclear war

You're the first to think this up. You should sell the idea to the government

if NK displaces 25million people they will win, the humanitarian disaster would be too big to deal with

>They aren't going to attack anyone because they would be annihilated.

It's funny how rare it is to see people that actually understand this

I mean, I'm sure the government has to know this. I am a 22 year old law student and the government with all of its splendor has plans for everything.

I believe the problem is getting the go ahead to make as ambitious of a plan to start.

However, if you provide me with an email I can send the idea too i'd be glad to share it.

Well, at this pint, the SOuth Koreans have ignored clear signals it is time to evacuate Seoul. So if something happens to them, it is one them, not us. They have ignored clear signals for weeks. They have Stockholm Syndrome, apparently.

>one tactical EMP

lol, for what purpose? You know who you're fighting right.

It isn't even clear to us how fanatical the average Norker is. They could just be toeing the party line and will capitulate as soon as the government is gone or actively keep fighting until they're all dead

>arguing with someone stupid enough to think wars can be instantly won

>implying he's not one of your 20 million illegals

It's a miracle he can even communicate in English.

My friend, China has over 1 BILLION people and is doing just fine. If the survivors are spread out through china, SK, other neighboring nations the burden would be shared. As well as the people choosing to stay in NK and having support from the UN in the form of food and other supplies. I believe the world would unite around helping those that remain and maybe it would offer a chance for the first time in history that the entire would could work for the greater good of REBUILDING north korea.

Surely recon would know the locations of most of the artillery, you could easily wipe most of it out in a surprise attack before they could use it.

I never understood why we can't prepare for this.

Yes, its difficult to take on 25 million people, and the Norks know this. Why don't all nations in the region set aside a fund to help out these people in case of any future war. They could set aside X amount of money and resources every year in anticipation. North Korea isn't going anywhere.

Once we're ready for the "greatest humanitarian disaster in history" Norks lose some huge leverage they previously had. The advantage we have is that WE can chose when to trigger this humanitarian crisis.

Imagine if we could chose when we could have our hurricanes, we'd prepare aid weeks or months in advance, same thing applied here.

EMPs would render their nuclear systems and missile systems useless. Those are the only things that make NK even slightly dangerous. The problem would be containing the EMP's to where they wouldn't fry SK and China

>arguing with someone stupid enough to think wars can be instantly won

every American, including the Department of Defense thinks this way though

Forget rebuilding that shithole. Instead, give the problem to the South Koreans, on condition they let Americans control those rare earth minerals. There aren't enough psychologists in the entire world required to fix NK's problems.

yes, they're sitting ducks. partly because they're too worried about their materialist life. it's also mostly the millenials there that haven't realized the full implications of war there

When you take one piece of a larger argument and refute the one piece by itself without sharing the context it puts you on the same level of credibility as Fox News. The "War" would be over in terms of mass destruction, the remainder of the war would be cleanup and humanitarian efforts.

I feel like Donald Trump being asked to denounce the KKK a million times after he already did it. Its like people have the attention spans of gnats.

NK's largest leverage is their artillery aimed at Seoul, and however advanced their nuclear capabilities are.

USA doesn't care about creating humanitarian crises. Europe, and our asian allies would pick up the slack

What makes NK deadly is their artillery

Wait another solution.

Why doesn't china just invade North Korea and take their women? They have like 12 million women ready to be taken, it'll put a dent in the amount of men that will never have wives.

>Your government will convince you into anything.

it's not their government that's doing the convincing

You willing to bet 20 million lives on that?

Its the most fucked up example of Game theory. The only winning move is to do nothing. North Korea should have been toppled right when Iraq happened.

is there enough retards out there to volunteer and join or am i going to have to start moving some shit around to avoid a draft

The potential humanitarian crises is leverage against China and SK, not the US. Yes, the US ,rightfully so, does not care what happens after the war.

China is the key to all this, they're the only ones that can pull the leash on them. If we can erase the Chinese's worries about DEALING with the millions of refugees, they're more likely to do something.

>EMP
>1970s artillery
>america
>precision
haw haw haw silly yankiedoodle
gee aye cant even bomb sand without hitting hawspital

Draft the liberals and send them off as fodder.

>That's all it would take.

that's true, but why do we want kim out? let north korea be north korea. there's no place on earth like it and it poses no threat to anybody (they are not that suicidal to launch an attack).

it's a good case study or experiment or cautionary tale, however you want to look at it. there's no reason to make it go away. same goes for venezuela. nobody should give a shit about these places. leave them alone.

long live north korea!

Nuke the artillery first with a stealth nuke that they won't see on radar.

That's what missiles are for

IMO we should try to re-engage NK in diplomacy while increasing R&D spending into anti-missile defense systems. This is the perfect pretext to stimulate that sector, which will piss off Russia and China. This will hopefully get them more willing to get tough on North Korea, but China has been increasing their borders with NK for a little while now.

I wish they could settle it themselves but I fear it is on us.

It is projected that we can only deplete 1% of their artillery per hour

Their artillery is dug into the mountain sides.
Several nukes might not even get them all.

ITT: tactics

Strangely absent: logistics.

>mudslimes have power
>Norks not fighting Mudslimes by aiming at this.

Risk 20,000,000 NK, SK, Chinese lives, or put the stability of the entire planet constantly in question along with ever escalating tensions.

I'd risk it.

Why is the u.s government afraid of going to war with north Korea? The u.s government has spent billions on our military and private contractors.

South Korea being devastated

The EMP would be for the actual danger.

Missiles and Nukes you ignoramus.

Because the kikes want to take over N.Korea. They are just using the U.S. to do their bidding. Killing all kikes is the only way to reach world peace.

>If the rogue state's nearby artillery and other conventional weapons are not destroyed immediately at the beginning of a conflict, experts believe tens of thousands - if not hundreds of thousands - could be killed.

No shit, didn't need an "expert" for that

Show me the predictions, even if they are true, 100 hours is only around 4 days.

Conditions of war:
1. China will not engage NK, SK or US forces
2. NK will be reunified with SK
3. China will accept all NK refugees
4. China may do whatever they want to the refugees, including straight up selling their blood

Bush should have invaded Korea instead?

This is some curious situation. Europeans probably look at it and think what have become of America.

That's one thing I don't agree with, dropping contact nukes. We don't want to poison the land forever, just remove the impulsive cancer that runs the place.

Evacuated those chinks

Can we just go back to the fun loving Kim Jong Un already?

You probably want a central bank as the first step to rebuilding. kys

Centralized banking is cancer on society as well. Andrew Jackson was right.

I'm starting to SK are actually pussies
Notice all the we're going to nuke you is only coming from Japan and US

EMP aint going to do jack shit against conventional artillery which is what the norks have. All the surgical strikes we could pull off wouldn't be enough to stop the initial barrage, granted there is no way the norks could win the war but they would inflict massive casualties in the opening phase of the war.

Well that can't be done without 20 million koreans dying in Seoul.

>Killing all kikes is the only way to reach world peace.
That will never happened. They're "GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE". After everything and I mean everything bad that happens to them they always seem to make out and survive.

nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/
50% of SKs population is in Seoul, which a decent amount of NK artillery can reach. I am not too keen on SK politics, but I believe the new President wants to attempt diplomacy with NK. Threatening nukes isn't helpful for that

>EMP
Instantly frying SK's defense systems, while doing nothing to pre-electronic era NK hardware.

No muslims group will ever do shit in Korea due to the slight possibility that Kim sends a missile there.

There are many factors that go into war.

What about the communications between artillery posts? Who is going to order them with the lines being fried? Who is to tell them they cannot abandon their posts?

When your entire world is collapsing into a third world society with fire and brimstone raining down on you and your friends it will be hard to stay at your "post". A fucking hole in the side of a mountain with no guarantee of resupply, reinforcements, or hope for that matter.

Unfortunately South Koreans just don't care about the North's threats and won't evacuate. No one born since the first war really believes in the threat. They're just so used to North Korea's antics that they're lulled into a false sense of security.

Now really would be a good time for anyone in Seoul to consider heading to the southern part of the country for a week or two.

> Who is to tell them they cannot abandon their posts?

They're communists. The way it works is, if your buddy even start thinking you might desert your post, they'll kill you just in case.
Because they could be killed for not preventing you.

Things SK has wanted:
More sanctions from UNSC, but yeah, fuck you China, but pls vote yes (lol)
More missles (idk how that helps diplomacy)
More thaad (idk how that helps seoul, and also china voting yes on unsc)

So, i'm not sure what diplomacy they are going for

The sorks aren't pussies mate. Read up on operation Paul Bunyan

Really this is Clinton's fault. He never should have given KJI anything, and instead should have acted like Trump is acting now. The US was far stronger, and China was far, far weaker both militarily and economically back in the 90s and would've been eager to throw NK under the bus to save themselves.

The source you gave me refutes any point to be made about the "dangers" of NK's 1970 era artillery emplacements and gives me the best evidence that it would be completely plausible to pull of an attack on NK while minimizing casualties.

This is the problem I saw. Tactical nukes have a more condensed AoE however like you said. Collateral damage will be possible in such a large scale operation.

Wouldn't the EMP fuck up the tomahawk missiles?

Please think things through before walling w/ text.

I thought this new President didn't want the THAAD, or was that just very early on?
They still predict quite a few casualties

I have a Google Earth overlay of known North Korean artillery emplacements and ranges. Probably out-of-date, but the fact remains that yes the majority of North Korean artillery doesn't have the range to hit Seoul.

Enough does to severely pound the city, but all the breathless claims of 600,000 shells per hour are gross exagerations.

I'll try to get a link for the overlay if anyone is interested.

The rule of law usually devolves pretty quickly in times of crisis. No matter how disciplined soldiers are if hope is gone they will flee.

HOWEVER, ill give you the fact that recently a Japanese soldier was found in the Philippines I think it was, and he still thought WW2 was going on.

>Mark Hertling
Stopped reading there.

>I thought this new President didn't want the THAAD, or was that just very early on?

He changed his mind earlier today. Four THAAD batteries are being deployed as we speak.

North Korea seemed to be abiding by the agreement that they made with Clinton/Carter until Bush did what Bush does best

If you think the government is stupid enough to EMP their own missiles then you probably shouldn't be posting either.

Obviously the tomahawks and bunker busters could be fired in succession after the EMP blast. All of this could be accomplished within an hour.

You got to give it to NK's lucky streak
It's always a liberal on either US or SK

>I'd risk it.
I just want a happening and that will do just fine

I am interested, and I will also add a prediction from Stratfor. I'm not too war savy so I don't know how much it'll help me, but I'd love to give it a look kek

I am interested

Kek

Why does anyone care if Seoul gets leveled? Koreans have anti-american protests constantly. They hate having our soldiers in their cities. We should just start Sinking Nork Navy ships every time he launches a missle. Best case scenario he launches artillery and human wave attacks on Seoul and takes over South Korea and then those stupid anti-american gooks can get the reunification they've been wanting.

emp is trivial to defend against. the reason it would do great damage to a society is that 99% of electronic devices are not shielded. you can be pretty sure that the 1 % would include critical comms, icbm's, nukes and their support structures.

>the majority of North Korean artillery doesn't have the range to hit Seoul.

even if it doesn't it only needs to clear the way for human wave attacks from the north to capture Seoul and force Americans to level the city to get the norks out.

Not that I care, we'd be better off if kim jong just took over the whole peninsula and then China would go in and overthrow him.

Would save us billions and billions in military spending. Who gives a fuck about South Korea?

Because they are our ally, and y'know international relations and stuff

No no no, user. I'm serious- you're the idiot in this conversation.

The geomagnetic storm from an EMP lasts 2-3 days. The Tomahawk would have to hit first, or not at all.

>you can be pretty sure that the 1 % would include critical comms

Yeah it wouldn't include the electrical grid. So even if we won the exchange militarily, we're all still shoved back to the late 1800's.

About the reunification meme
I wonder if the SK people actually know what they are getting into
1m rapefugees made a 300m citizen into a shithole
Yes can just imagine 20m into 50m
Juche is practically jihad btw

Bombs drop Saturday

>Because they are our ally, and y'know international relations and stuff
Correction their the u.s government Ally. I don't know any Koreans.

I know it would do great damage to NK's society. In reality however, I can give 2 shits about NK's society at this point. They do not even have many essential structures or electricity running through their country. Take a look at NK at night time on google maps and then tell me frying all of their electronics will be devastating. The majority of their population is living without those luxuries already and the ones who have them are high up in the chain of command in the NK military. The best thing for the NK people would be us completely destroying their country and helping them rebuild.

I however am not an advocate of U.S. governing from afar so id leave the reconstruction up to SK and china, being that those are the countries NK would be split between when the war is over.