Communism

1 simple argument against communism that commies will have trouble refuting

Other urls found in this thread:

cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Communists and other economic leftists believe in collective ownership of the means of production. One of their core concepts is that the working class should seize the means of production and start a fair redistribution of wealth thereafter.

This is nothing but wishful thinking. It implies that the working class is so naturally talented and adept at management, that as soon as it gets access to the means of production, everything will work smoothly. If the proletariat is really good, why doesn't it start small right away? You can easily amass the initial capital by fundraising. No seizure is needed. The workers and left-wing enthusiasts just have to chip in, it works. Then you launch your collectively owned enterprise and share profit among each other however you like. Over time, it might grow bigger, more people might join and start doing the same - voila, your dream comes true. But it doesn't happen because the working class is dumb, and the leftist ideologues are incompetent.

I am not saying that collective ownership is not possible at all. With the right organization culture, it well might be. But in that case, it will work perfectly well in the market economy. Which means, the market is the only way. The market libertarians have been right all along. You're either one and try to implement your gimmicks on market terms, or you're a delusional fool betrayed by history itself.

...

it's not real

Soviet Union.

Helicopters.

The problem with ideologies is in the name - They're ideals. An idealist is someone who thinks the highest of everyone. Basically life deniers.

Communism will be thing in the future, as will universal basic income in western countries. You can cry against it or repeat how communism didn't ever work (I agree, it didn't) but it will still be a thing because automatization will not let you choose any other way unless you want to see a huge mayhem

>automatization will not let you choose any other way
Why?

What do I eat if I get hungry?

Refuted very easily. For the same reason that the Human society did not immediately embrace capitalism, and was organised by some different sorts of economic models throughout overwhelming majority of its history.

As for the libertarians - there wasn't even the smallest implementation or demonstration of their principles ever. They are the most idealistic - and the most unrealistic - political ideology in human history, even more so than religious sects, as they at least organized some villages, and even the whole cities, states and nations.

...

Greed is a natural human emotion. Greed must be irradicated for socialiss or communist society to flourish. Where in a capitalist society individual greed benefits all of society by offering goods and services at always competing prices with endless innovation.

Why did China's economy stagnate from 1955 to 1980 and not recover until capitalism was adopted?

Anti-commie thread?

How do commies set prices for goods in a control economy? Who says what any good or service is worth and what makes them so fucking special?
Also, Marx's ideas about the people owning the means of production only address an industrial economy. Who owns the means of production if I am a tutor? Or a masseuse? Therapist? What if I'm a really therapist and what to hire some other therapists to work for me? There are no means of production for skilled services like those so why would the workers have any right/claim to that company?

Chinese economy grew around 10% yearly since 1949, with few exceptions. Chinese miracle is only possible under communist management. India, that was richer and in an overall better position in 1949 is now several times behind China, and burdened with several critical crises that the communists have solved.

Or just ask them to make a moral argument for communism. They will never answer because there isn't one.

every country that tried ti failed..you cant say they didnt

You commies always bring up Capitalism but it is a retarded argument because real capitalism has never been tried.

You have not refuted anything in essence. If collective ownership of the means of production IS possible, you don't need a full unlimited power and a total expropriation to bring it to life. If you can't implement it small-scale, you won't be able to implement it large-scale either.

>Chinese miracle is only possible under communist management
Or maybe it has to do with the fact that their markets are basically unregulated lawless shitholes and they have no moral qualms about stealing ideas and plagiarism?

Sounds like the ideal capitalist state honestly

>Chinese miracle is only possible with the embrace of state capitalism.

Fixed that for you

Risk is a cost. People that own means of production take on a massive risk, as most businesses fail. Failure is a good thing as it "breeds" better industries (see the fierce restaurant industry). Employees gladly pay the price of reduced risk in reduced pay. In this way people are not being exploited when they do not own the business they work for.

Equality is impossible because there's a plurality of people. Even if we were all genetically engineered to be identical, we occupy different spaces.

Even Marx didn't know wtf to do after the 'revolution' and 'communist utopia'. They have no fucking plan to run society after they've gotten what they want.

>How do commies set prices for goods in a control economy?
There are different solutions for that. Market. Government agencies. No different from now, in fact.
>There are no means of production for skilled services like those so why would the workers have any right/claim to that company?
The Marxsist way of organizing labour would be the partnership, cooperative or self-employment then.

The other user said it already, but I would like to reapeat it.
According to Marx, Capitalism is a necessary step in the evolution of human society. So yes, communism wont work if you give the means of production to uneducated serfs. The society needs to industrialize and get educated first.

Commies force everyone to have a job. I like living in freedom land where I can live on neet bux.

...

...

Checks and balances?

>How to refute capitalism with one simple trick

...

Are you relying only on Mao's figures?

If you're going to restrict your "facts" to official state propaganda, why shouldn't everyone just respond with those old 1950's anti-communist films?

>Also, what is the "Cultural Revolution"?
>What is the "Great Leap Forward."

Honestly user, everyone would call Mao a great man and a genius if he had died in 1953, but he lived long enough for his whole country to regret it.

>Seize means of production
>the worker is no longer the means of production

What could possibly go wrong? Surely this isn't part of some technocrat plan to depopulate the earth.

...

thats not real socialism

what are they really risking though? the worse possible scenario is that they become like any other worker

...

This LITERALLY kills the capitalist (from low birth rates)

Whatever you say,pal.

It always fails and leaves mass poverty in its wake.

Daily reminder, soviet union citizens had just as good of a diet as american citizens.
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf

replace "money" with "sex" and see if communism still makes sense

It will never be a thing unless we can magically make unlimited food and water spill out our asses.

>B-But muh no food meme
>*starves in a capitalist country*

Lol

Marx only views communism as the next step because he mistakenly views the pareto distribution as a flaw unique to capitalism.

But he's wrong because the pareto distribution is inherent to all human endeavors. People that are successful tend to be more likely to be successful, this is the human condition.

He envisioned communism as a solution to the flaw of wealth accumulating in greater proportion to the rich, but he failed to recognize that it is inherent to all human endeavors and not just to wealth.

Communism will never work because it goes against the truth of the human condition.

...

Automation will not be as magical as you think it will be.

6-gorillian dollar drones picking carrots can fuck-up and crash, and you'll need a team of engineers to fix it.

Communism is pretty much the same as capitalism but much worse. With communism, one part of the government becomes filthy rich while the populace has no chance of earning anything. Look at Russia for example, they have maybe 3 major cities in their whole vast land of a shithole that are remotely comparable to the western capitalist states and their majority of population live like peasants with no future to be seen in the horizon, which makes the youth turn to crime/drugs/prostitution from an early age. The same thing goes for China, majority of their citizens live in "cage houses", 1x1 meter living quarters and work 14h a day with little to no pay or chance to get anywhere in life. You don't see suicide nets around factories in capitalist states, only in communist states you will see that.

You want to make it work in some arcane, questionable ways like mass nationalization or expropriation.

How about you start small-scale and prove to humanity how effective collective ownership is? Show everyone the high culture of communist management by launching a collective enterprise.

>easily preventable
hahaha
>all hunger is capitalism's fault
ahahahaha
>vaccines being the issue and not niggers being too superstitious and retarded
>malaria is capitalism's fault too!

This is a lefty/pol/ cringe thread now

>Capitalism, you can see it from space

no refutation? thought so

you cant attribute random deaths to capitalism we are not obliged to help someone on the other side of the world because they were dumb enough to have 8 kids they cant feed or take care of

...

...

...

...

A team is engineers is a lot less labour than an entire farm full of people picking crops

Those engineers are also likely to service multiple farms' drones

...

...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

>capitalism is responsible for all deaths outside its reach
>communism isn't even responsible for deaths in their own countrirs

...

>Late stage capitalism doesn't exi-

...

...

JUST

What role in society do you expect to have once we achieve it?

gommies in a nutshell

>Late stage capitalism

Nice reddit meme you autistic numale

Real capitalism hasn't been tried faglord.

...

kek

t. classcuck market whore

are you asking what the risk of being an entrepreneur is? You can lose everything! Try listening to the stories of the people who have made the companies and industries that support the economy. The ones that fail often dump as much time, effort, and sweat into it as the ones that succeed. It can leave you broken, bankrupt, ruin relationships, and waste years of your life. Or you can have wild success. It's that dichotomy that drives people to try.

>Wearing a mass produced T-Shirt and Hat, while carrying a mass printed book and technology whose production was all financed by Capitalistic societies.

Wew lad

...

You do not understand how human development works.

Capitalist organisation of labour didn't exist for the most of human history. It existed as a minor for several hundred years. It existed as the main for several hundred years.
It is exactly the same with the socialist organisation of labour. Now, it exists as a minor, but significant part of the economy.

If some way of economic organisation IS possible, and WILL be universal, it does not mean that it is possible or universal at the current stage of human development. This is what Marx himself found out, and it is a commonly accepted knowledge now.

Yeah sure. 80% of the economy is privately owned. Sounds like socialism to me! Hmmm.. I wonder why it collapsed right after oil prices fell....
>easily preventable
hahaha
>all hunger is capitalism's fault
ahahahaha
>vaccines being the issue and not niggers being too superstitious and retarded
>malaria is capitalism's fault too!

We could solve world hunger withl the money american spent on icecream per year. Its entirely possible with the resources we have to solve a ton of the problems in the world but we don't do it because we produce for exchange not need.

>wage labor and commodity production.
>socialism

Large firms do economic calculation and they don't suffer from the economic calculation problem.

>in fuedalism
>hey I decided to support capitalism
>LOL BUT YOUR TOOLS ARE MADE UNDER FUEDALISM XD!! CHECK MATE
also
>implying in order to advocate a different economic system you have to pretend like you allready live in it.

...

Are you one of those lefty/pol/ tranny freaks? Kill yourself you ugly abomination

>drivel
commie, I...

why Fidel Castro was the richest man in the country?

What happens when there is a disagreement on how something is achieved? I work in logistics and there are enough arguments over what needs to be done and what can be done as it is, without requiring consensus.

True libertarians do not form groups. A libertarian strives to provide for himself and his family, and perhaps collaborates with neighbours for the sake of ease of access to resources.

This, it is a very large gamble you are getting into.

Remember Bulletball? For the most part it did crumble early on but it did find a niche in the field of spinal injury therapy.

...

Why are commiecuck memes so terrible? You can't just add random images together it doesn't work that way. I know you kikes are trying to copy our memes but you simply lack the talent. Give up it's pure cringe

>MUH TRADITIONAL
>Oops looks like I'm a capitalist now :^)

>Brony
>Communist
Oh the day will come when he is the first to go under communism.

Tankies are truly the most cringy and autistic of all the lefty/pol/ reddit neckbeards for sure.

...

Communist memes are less widespread and diverse than fash, that is true. That is because Communism has, like, a real culture, art and sciences that we can enjoy, so we do not have to resort to autistic gifs and videos on the internet to express, enjoy and reflect on ourselves,

Our police running over gommie protesters

Abolishment of private property destimulates creativity and innovation.

>but he failed to recognize that it is inherent to all human endeavors and not just to wealth.
I agree. This is also true for military power. In feudal system, you have a "free market of violence", where different feudal lords compete for military power, and the more successful lords accumulate more power, while the serfs suffer.
Yet I am sure that both you and me can agree that this is not a good system, and it is better to give the monopoly of violence to democratically elected government. Why shouldn't the same be true for means of production aswell?

That would be still a collective enterprize within the rules of capitalist free market. Weather a single capitalists owns the means of production, or a group of capitalists, doesn't really change the fundamental problem