So, as I understand this, Europeans descent from three basic races.
One of them are the Early Neolithic Farmers, who peak in Southern Europe. Sardinia is essentially purely ENF. Toscany too, and Iberia as well. These regions are consistent with the (recently) non-Indo-European regions of southern Europe, which means we have a very good idea of what ancient southern Europeans were like.
The other is the Yanmaya people, who peak in Scandinavia. Unlike ENF, there's no modern population that resembles them perfectly, and the population actually originally lived around the Black Sea. The Proto-Indo-Europeans seem to have been primarily Yanmaya, but the portion of them that invaded southern Europe lived in the border with the neighbouring population of the Corded Ware people, who lived around the Baltic Sea (and developed the blue eyes and light hair).
The Western European hunter-gatherers are the ones I honestly don't quite understand, but I think they are the Corded Ware people. In other words, the Pre-Indo-European population of Fennoscandia. Given their modern distribution, they were the ones who got affected the most by the Yanmaya, who assimilated and mixed with a portion of them, which later invaded southern Europe.
This is a picture of Sardinians. They are the closest we get to Early Neolithic Farmers.
Kevin Sanchez
cool, have a bump
Xavier Anderson
And these are some Finnish people. Even though modern Finns have a considerable Yamna mix and also a small ENF mix, presumably the more stereotypically "pale" ones are as close to Western European hunter-gatherer as we can get.
Jaxson Jenkins
bump and contribution
Kevin Nelson
I'm not quite sure what the original Yamna are supposed to look like. The Proto-Indo-Europeans were Yamna, but the PIE that spread PIE languages across Europe were a mix of Yamna and WEHG (ie. Corded Ware).
I think Proto-Indo-Europeans looked something like Polish people today. Pic related.
But I'm not sure about Yamna themselves. Perhaps we need to look outside Europe to find them.
Zachary Sanchez
I don't think a broad picture of Finns is a good representation of Yamna. Finland is the most genetically diverse nation in Europe, a person from western Finland is closer genetically to western Europeans than to an eastern Finn. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns#Genetics
Xavier Lopez
Fug, forgot pic
Any idea what the "stereotypical" person of the Yamna race would look like?
ENF = "Mediterranean" WEHG = "Nordic" Yamna = ?
Mason Torres
The farmers were not limited to south europe, the way i understand this they could support larger population and pushed the hunter gatherers north and west. Then yamana migrated from the east with their warrior culture and horses. In the north they wasted the farmers and gatherers but in the south the climate allowed the farmers to grow large population and resist somewhat.
Thats how i see it.
Dylan Allen
Haplogroup has little to do with phenotype (otherwise, Afgans should be identical to Poles)
Noah Lee
I'm not 100% convinced the WHG were nordic looking.
>So as things stand, it appears that Europeans only acquired their present coloring, including pale skin and a high incidence of light eyes, relatively recently, well after the hunter-gatherers and farmers began mixing, and their hybrid DNA had time to go through some really powerful selective sweeps. These sweeps were possibly in part a reaction to the Neolithic diet, rich in carbohydrates but poor in vitamin D, amongst other things. Vitamin D doesn't have to be acquired from food because the body can synthesize it from the sun, but this is done more effectively by people with fair skin, giving them an advantage, especially in places like Europe, which has fairly long winters and lots of cloud cover.
Here's a Yamnaya skull, there are modern facial reconstructions of this one but those are of zero worth.
Logan Smith
And this thread has little to do with haplogroups That chart is about the general autosomal DNA association between populations
You're right about haplogroups. Technically an invading population of 100 men can invade a region of 2000 men and women, kill all men and take 10 wives each. All patrilinear descendants will carry their Y-DNA haplogroup, but 50% of the genepool will still be from the original females, ie. the original population minus its Y-DNA gene.
Andrew Wood
so europeans are jews?
Chase Johnson
WHG wouldn't look Nordic at all, they'd look probably sort of like a dark version of Oliver Khan
>The genome-wide results, on the other hand, are not as straightforward. The basic upshot is that Northern Europeans are mostly of indigenous European hunter-gatherer origin, while Southern Europeans are largely derived from Neolithic farmers of mixed European and Near Eastern origin. But the authors identify a minimum of three ancestral populations from their stats (WHG, EEF and ANE), and four meta-populations from the available ancient data (WHG, EEF, ANE and SHG). Here are brief summaries of each of these groups:
>West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG): this ancestral component is based on an 8,000 year-old forager from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg (one of the individuals mentioned above belonging to I2a1b). The WHG meta-population includes the Loschbour sample and two Mesolithic individuals from the La Brana Cave in Spain. However, today the WHG component peaks among Estonians and Lithuanians, in the East Baltic region, at almost 50%.
>Early European Farmer (EEF): apparently this is a hybrid component, the result of mixture between "Basal Eurasians" and a WHG-like population possibly from the Balkans. It's based on the aforementioned LBK farmer from Stuttgart, but today peaks at just over 80% among Sardinians. Apart from the Stuttgart sample, the EEF meta-population includes Oetzi the Iceman and a Neolithic Funnelbeaker farmer from Sweden.
cont.
Elijah Roberts
This board is full of dumb brainlets, OP. Try /his/.
Noah Ortiz
cont.
>Ancient North Eurasian (ANE): this is the twist in the tale, a component based on a previously reported genome of a 24,000 year-old Upper Paleolithic forager from South Central Siberia, belonging to Y-hg R*, and known as Mal'ta boy or MA-1 (see here). This component was very likely present in Southern Scandinavia since at least the Mesolithic (see the summary of SHG below), but only seems to have reached Western Europe after the Neolithic. At some point it also spread into the Americas. In Europe today it peaks among Estonians at just over 18%, and, intriguingly, reaches a similar level among Scots. However, numbers weren't given for Finns, Russians and Mordovians, who, according to one of the maps, also carry very high ANE, but their results are confounded by more recent Siberian admixture (see the discussion on the European outliers below). The ANE meta-population includes Mal'ta boy as well as a late Upper Paleolithic sample from Central Siberia, dubbed Afontova Gora-2 (AG2).
>Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherer (SHG): this is a meta-population made up of Swedish Mesolithic and Neolithic forager samples from Motala and Gotland, respectively. It's a more easterly variant of WHG, with probable ANE admixture.
Ryder Hill
that article is way too old, the field moves much faster
Evan James
By Nordic I didn't mean the general modern Nordic person, who may have strong Germanic characteristics, but those few Finns / Lapps that are STEREOTYPICALLY pale, with platinum hair and kind-of-Asian blue eyes. It's true that Finland is very mixed, but its least mixed areas must be characteristic of the pre-Indo European Fennoscandian population.
Meanwhile, those "unmixed" populations don't exist in Norway. So, even though Norway has stronger WHG element, it's also much more homogenous. Due to the country's heterogenity, I think the original WHG phenotype hides in small pockets of Finland.
Jeremiah Morgan
no, but kikes are very high in the EEF department, as is the rest of the middle east
>Oliver Khan Yeah, that's pretty good. Kind of chinky too.
But why darker? Isn't the Corded Ware culture primarily WHG?
Parker Fisher
other jewnaya
Juan Cruz
they are high in neolithic iranian farmer ancestry, which is very divergent from the Sardinian like farmer ancestry
Oliver Nelson
>Isn't the Corded Ware culture primarily WHG? no, CW is primarly Yamnaya plus some middle neolithic Eurofarmer
the high Yamnaya would in turn give them high ANE input, which is a siberian population diverged from WHGs
John Gutierrez
>Med trying to differentiate between EEF and non-European EEF because it makes him less muddy and this is why I don't discuss genetics with southern Europeans...
Blake Miller
not an argument and nice butthurt try reading something wrote in the last 2 years you dumb ape
“But the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin,” said Dr Lalueza-Fox, who is the senior author of a paper published in the journal Nature.
When compared to today’s Europeans, La Brana-1 was found to be most closely genetically related to modern-day people in Sweden and Finland.
Grayson Reyes
so the indo europeans were the white ones that bleached everyone in the north of europe and east?
Andrew Martin
also old news, not all HG were the same see (2017 article)
Aiden Green
All of them? Hunter gatherers are by necessity small and separate populations. I would expect them to be highly diverse do to low mixing.
Chase Murphy
>European Hunter-Gatherers Had Dark Skin, Blue Eyes Only Western Hunter-Gatherers.
>When compared to today’s Europeans, La Brana-1 was found to be most closely genetically related to modern-day people in Sweden and Finland. Not true.
Jacob Richardson
>Not true. 404 argument not found
Joshua Sanders
WHG is lowest in Scandinavia, also the whole thing is politically influenced. >“But the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin,” said Dr Lalueza-Fox Meanwhile... very light skin genes were found in Motala graves in Sweden.
