I drew up a new map for Europe based on my understanding of each country and their populations, who they get along with or feel closest to, et cetera. Here are my reasons for everything, make suggestions if you think I have something wrong.
>Iceland left completely alone because it would probably rather be isolated than united with Scandinavia since they wouldn't want their island ruled by mainlanders who don't understand life there
>Ireland given Northern Ireland primarily to make for nicer borders but if the UK were to simply give the land to Ireland it would strengthen relations for the future
>Scotland is still part of the UK because they would be too weak and pointless of a nation if they were independent
>France takes Luxembourg and the southern half of Belgium because they're both meme states and French speakers in southern Belgium would probably rather join France anyway
>Northern half of Belgium given to the Netherlands
>Spain recolonizes North-Western Africa, Italy recolonizes Northern Africa primarily for rebuilding Carthage
>Germany united with Austria, given back the Baltic coast all the way to Konigsberg (this one I'm completely open to suggestions on as I was not sure how far south the territory should go from the coast)
>Denmark, Norway, and Sweden all united under a Scandinavian flag
>Finland and Estonia united under one flag, I feel as though they get along well enough to form a union similar to Czechoslovakia
>Finland given Murmansk and part of Karelia
>Russia given Crimea and Donetsk
>Greece given Constantinople, Western Anatolia, and the Northern Pontic region as is rightfully theirs
>Balkans left alone short of Serbia holding Kosovo, no sense trying to unite any of them under one flag anymore
>The Three Seas Initiative forms an alliance that excludes Austria and Estonia because they formed their respective unions
>A Mediterranean Alliance forms between Spain, France, and Italy purely for security reasons due to the Germanic Union
European Borders and Alliances for Maximum Peace and Prosperity
finnish people are mostly disgusting
>France
>mediterranean
lol no
Also bear in mind that this is assuming NATO and the EU no longer exist, and America is allied with the UK. The reason I believe this alliance structure would work best is to have four main powers in Europe that can all compete for top dog and drive technology forward much faster while maintaining a decent balance of power.
Only Italy and Spain alliance.
BFF
These threads are always so fucking autistic.
We get it, you're 19.
made with?
The defenders of the Mediterranean
Sorry you feel that way buddy, they're just fun to speculate with. If you don't like to think then you should probably fuck off back to Plebbit and just absorb the opinions of other people
Just paint using this template
Let's do this. Giovanni
>If you don't like to think then you should probably fuck off back to Plebbit and just absorb the opinions of other people
But they're never about thinking, they're about MUH GROSSGERMANIUM REICH and big Serbia and other autistic shit about how we'd like the borders to look, without regard for resources, culture or ethno-linguistic barriers. It's fucking pure, unadulterated autism no matter how you spin it, fucker.
EPIC GROSSGERMANIA AAAAAAAAA MY BALLS JUST DROPPED TO THE FLOOR OH MY FUCKING GOD MOM THIS IS JUST SUPER EPIC
You cant take back constantinapole not without razing everything to the ground that is. It is beyond salvation the city is far from beatiful and there is so fucking much people. You either go full genocide or mass deportation which will turn into some kind of genocide or insurgence. You would be able to take western anatolia however not with the name of greece , people would comply if they were given a sovereign state along the lines of united states of aegean or something. You wouldnt be able to seperate the black sea regions because of the same reasons with constantinople. However you may get away with creating a sovereign state with those guys too. Maybe in time they could become together.
>But they're never about thinking, they're about MUH GROSSGERMANIUM REICH and big Serbia and other autistic shit about how we'd like the borders to look
This is not about either of these things, it's your own butthurt that is making that assumption
>without regard for resources, culture or ethno-linguistic barriers
Not sure how resources are relevant in who should own what land from a historical or cultural standpoint, it's not like England is owned by the English so they could catch fish. With regards to the culture or ethno-linguistic part, those were literally the basis for half of the things I did, and those that were not were for historical reasons that would need to be completed through reconquest, see: Germany, Greece
>This is not about either of these things, it's your own butthurt that is making that assumption
Why is Poland landlocked again to make way for Greater Germany and muh Konigsberg when Germans don't live there anymore? Why is Greece in control of most of Turkey again? Why is Austria not independent of Germany despite being completely different to Germany? Why is Kosovo owned by Serbia even though it's vastly made up of Albanians? It is your autism showing, and you can deny and deny and keep denying it but you're just another shitty map thread.
Also, wasted trips.
>Why is Poland landlocked again to make way for Greater Germany
Because the area is historically German, and you're assuming that Germany is just going to start World War II all over again. The second that Germany further invaded Poland they would be fighting all of the Three Seas Alliance, and the Mediterranean Alliance would likely step in against Germany for balance of power
>muh Konigsberg when Germans don't live there anymore
Hmm I wonder why Germans would want a city back that was conquered by another country after they built and held it for centuries?
>Why is Greece in control of most of Turkey again
Again, historically Greek regions, they would take everything back in the same way the Ottomans took it from them. Population replacement happens all the time so I'm not sure why you're so intent on denying its possibility when your own argument hinges on it existing.
>Why is Austria not independent of Germany despite being completely different to Germany?
Surely them both being fucking Germanic countries means absolutely nothing, it's not like they didn't try to unite 80 years ago because of their similarites
>Why is Kosovo owned by Serbia even though it's vastly made up of Albanians?
Why on Earth would Serbia give up what little land it has left rather than just hold it and kick the Albanians out? Serbia has a pretty decent track record of trying to genocide other ethnic groups, why is that all of a sudden off the table for them?
You're just an assblasted Brit who is mad that his empire has completely fallen apart only to be overtaken in world standing by one of its ex-colonies. It's alright though, when you retards are finally annexed by us you'll be relevant again.
nope, wrong. pic related is perfect Europe
your germanic union is shit.
Because this retard can't draw maps I'll be part of germany
It's only an alliance there buddy
that's a shit template because none of the internal borders correspond to anything.
i tried making maps by bucketfilling templates and it just doesn't work. the only thing that works is using photoshop or gimp, layering your reference maps with reduced opacity, and then sketching them yourself.
Yeah that's fair, just wanted to make something without needing to draw the borders myself, but I appreciate the tips for if I ever do this again
>Because the area is historically German
No it isn't. It's as historically German as it is historically Polish, and what the fuck does that matter if there aren't any Germans living there anymore? It's fucking Polish until whoever decides to conquest the land and depopulate, your Wehrboo visions aren't sufficient reason to take that away from them.
>you're assuming that Germany is just going to start World War II all over again
Are you braindead? When and how did I imply, let alone say anything of the sort? My reasons are as above.
>Hmm I wonder why Germans would want a city back that was conquered by another country after they built and held it for centuries?
Do they want it back though, or is it you who wants it back because you're a mouth-breathing autist who makes shitty map threads to placate his fantasies?
>Again, historically Greek regions, they would take everything back in the same way the Ottomans took it from them
Same reasoning again, you're a fuckwit.
>Surely them both being fucking Germanic countries means absolutely nothing
Correct, since Sweden and the Netherlands are also Germanic countries but I'm sure you're not going to propose they form a single country any time soon, because they're vastly different.
>it's not like they didn't try to unite 80 years ago because of their similarites
Are you living in the now or the past, chum? You seem to be bouncing around all these different eras that you like the most, I thought your map was trying to make Europe as it is now as secure as it can be. And yes, Austria is distinct from Germany.
>Why on Earth would Serbia give up what little land it has left rather than just hold it and kick the Albanians out?
Why should they if there are Albanians living there? What right do they have?
"b-but muh historical lands"
Can I advocate that your cancerous country be handed back to the redskins, or is that logic kinda fucking retarded since it's no longer Native American and largely white and black?
>burger map memes
when will you learn
Great. Now you just need to do it.
you're not part of germany in OP's map or mine.
my own map isn't meant to reflect a single state, but several with varying degrees of loose political alliance - sovereign states forming a defence bloc.
I was trying to brainstorm the alternate history for my map, it's a bit tricky.
The first assumption it makes is that there is some continuity from the Duchy of Swabia as an alternate basis for a Swabian state, rather than the gradual consolidation of Switzerland.
There is not much ideological discontinuity between the Hohenstaufen Ghibellines, and the later Swiss confederacy which would be granted imperial immediacy.
The map assumes that the Hohenstaufens or their successors would preclude any attempts by the Habsburgs in claiming various principalities within what was in our timeline the former Duchy of Swabia.
In addition, Swabia here makes territorial gains from the Guelph Burgundy in Transjurana - territory now in Switzerland for different reasons, but reflecting and extending southward the ethnolinguistic natural border of the north of Swabia.
The greater Netherlands depends largely on the kingdom not being occupied by Napoleonic France - it is entirely possible it could have made those territorial claims.
The completely made-up state comprising most of Rhineland, Luxembourg and Hess, assumes a pre-emptive defensive alliance between all of them in response to the French and Prussians, precluding Prussian Rhineland province and potentially weakening the Prussians, precluding the Austro-Prussian war and allowing for the progression of political unity between Austria and Bavaria which was possible but did not materialize in our timeline.
It's alright I mean, it takes a long fucking time to do it properly admittedly
>for Maximum Peace and Prosperity
Peace is for cuckolds
germans lived in what is now poland for literally 1000 years before poles even existed toilet cleaner
>gives a part of Serbia to Croatia
What the fuck nigger
How to solve to Balkans 101
>Split Bosnia between Serbia and Croatia
>Krajina goes back to Serbia
>Kosovo is either split, or the Albanians are fucked out of the entire continent
Proudly alone.
>scotland is still part of britain
even in make believe we never leave
It's changed numerous times and even if it was one continuous millennium of German habitation, why would that change anything now if it is Polish?
op is a faggot
go back to Sup Forums
How about you let the results of the next great race wars define the shape of Europe and the rest of the world for centuries to come? Instead of trying to play god yourself. Or have you been diagnosed with USI?
toilet pls
>he isn't tonguing Jerry anus all the time, he must be a Polack immigrant
>Archivement unlocked: Global Peace
>Achievement unlocked: 1984
i really wish it would be like this.
makes things much more uncomplicated.
Britain is being autistic about northern Ireland again.
>allowing Japs to control the west coast
>allowing a sliver of uncontrolled American territory
What a shit map.
Not 1984, Man in the High Tower.
>perfect maps of Europe don't exis-
i am...interested in how the Japs would handle the degenerate Californians
>three seas alliance
with what fucking boats?
*Castle
>based on my understanding
it's not very effictive, mutt
My precious germany looks like a cripple
but its bigger so it must be better
>implying it could be any worse than what we have today
Did 1984 include state supported muslim gang rape for the little British girls? Don't remember that chapter...
Stop posting your shitty map until you've fixed switzerland.
Here look, this is a language map of Switzerland. For what it's worth, the Romansch area is a bit vague and unfortunately they identify more with the Italians (speaking a romance language and all) than the Germans, so the southeast is always going to be a mess, but at least try for fuck's sake.
It's from The Man in the High Castle
Alternative history where the axis won because they found a way to see a limited amount of the future from certain choices.
And why you think that Biinlande :D should get Murmansk and part of Karelia?
Corsica not in Italian hands; no alliance b/c its Italian clay
I didn't say that I didn't already live in Airstrip One faggot.
Ignore him. Retards don't know they're retarded. His whole "muh historical lands" is so demented I have no words. Leave him to his Europa Universalis. He's propably convinced Europe doesen't look like his maps because political leaders haven't heard his great wisdom yet. And yes, the USA should be given back to Injuns, bexause its historical Indian land, they want it back, I want it back for them, and I made a map of it, therefore it will totally happen. Also it would end autistic burgerposting, so we should all want it.
Here, USA 2050
Why autists from this board ever tended to gibe our rightful clay for 800 years to fingolians?
It's the 1940s, so California is still a paradise free of degenerates.
For the same reason why they always try to give north Poland to Germany - autism and lack of education.
This
Start the tanks allready you fucks and let the winner have the spoils
I wonder who will be angered by this map I made?
And yes I know, I suck at making maps and borders.
let the games begin
I don't think you understand the point of these threads, or how lasting peace is likely to be achieved. I'm not tracing ethno-linguistic lines, I'm trying to make a map that's good enough for the most people.
If a few Swiss have to move/ deal with it then so be it, I'd rather give each power some mountains on the borders and extra land to keep them happy. Stalin didn't worry about the Uzebeks/Tajiks feelings when he drew the maps, he gave them each a slice of valuable territory so they were forced to deal with eachother.
Nothing should be given to anyone everything must be earned
You have enough clay, let it go Ivan
T. Gommunist mindset
I dont think you know how europe works kiddo
you've been living in the cold for too long, finn.
fancy a glass of wine?
I wont fall for your schemes southerner
Ahem. 1st joint military exercises ("COOPSEC17") to begin next Monday, Sep 11th. It's a beginning..
English: news.xinhuanet.com
Oh quit your complaining, both of you are better off with my map. Russia has enough frozen wasteland-tier territory, so I gave them south-lands up to Moldova, and Binland deserves a little more breathing room.
it's no lack of education, it is placing value on different aspects, such as karelia largely being populated by finnic peoples even when it fell under the jurisdiction of the russians, prussia, pomerania and lower silesia were predominantly german before 1945 etc.
also a general disdain for slavs.
>a single user claims to be an authority on what these threads are and aren't about
get fucked, we have different opinions, you don't get to call the shots.
i still maintain my position that i think you're a lunatic if you think the bernese and walser germans would just roll over and not only accept being dominated by the french as the elsass germans have done, but being split off from the rest of the historic swiss confederation. they wouldn't stand for that. also, you do realise the alps extend past switzerland and into france and italy? nobody's going to be short on fucking ski resorts.
you're also a lunatic if you think the same rules apply in central europe with it's higher population density and centuries of border conflicts, and central asia which has historically been very sparsely populated by nomadic peoples and loose confederations, in a fluid patchwork with no distinct borders, not to mention the fact that as peoples they had been thoroughly broken in spirit by the soviets and would take anything they were offered.
Denmark and Norway were to be a part of the Germanic empire tho, and Sweden likely would have been L I B E R A T E D too
Yes the land is polish today. But in a perfect Europe, what the point of these maps is, it wouldn't be. :^)
FUND IT
wow I'm sure those 10 takes, 50 troops and 3 MiG-21's will make for a great military exercise!
We dont deserve shit unless we take it by force
Also there is nothing worthy but access to the sea to be gained
the fact that the slavs had the sense to ethnically cleanse germans from their territories means that without an unprecedented german military resurgence, the land now is to all intents and purposes, slavic.
i don't dispute that. but it wasn't slavic before '45, and one of the main reasons i've drawn maps is because i'm so assdamaged about how the jews turned the world against us back then and wish i lived in an alternate reality.
True. A lot of germans including me in this region are descendants of these "Vertriebenen" (expelled). These are btw also listed as people with migrant background in some studies.
>flag
kys nigger
New solution
>Based on my understanding of each country
More like your understanding of Paradox games. You know this isn't 1800 anymore, faggot?
Dutch commies and internationalists (some of them later helping found the EU) demanded that the Netherlands would take land from Germany and expel the Germans, just like the Jews in the USSR did to Prussia/Silesia/Sudetenland
The Allies decided not to let us, but it wasn't outside the realm of possibilities. Cologne would've been part of it, for example.
pic related is an overly ambitious version of it
In the end, we got like a few tiny towns and the Germans never left, then some decade later it was returned to Germany again.
Yeah I've heard of that. They even proposed mass sterilization of Germans. In the end they chose to eradicate Germans using the less radical Hooton-Plan, look it up.
my great grandmother was a baltic german, her children with her first husband were born in posen (during the interwar so it was already polish), before she re-married my great grandfather, a berliner with a small amount of ancestry from medzibor near breslau.
all of my family had moved into the area encompassed by germany's current borders before WWII.
if ireland wanted to do that it would have had to do so in the dark ages. they're over a millennium too late. they never attempted to make serious territorial gains in great britain, they just raided the coast and took slaves. saint patrick was one of those slaves taken by them. he escaped, went back to britain to find the anglo-saxons were turning it pagan, said fuck this shit and went back to ireland to convert them.
Oh I know of the Hooton-Plan
They're not just leaving it at Germany, though.
>no lack of education
Are you sure about it?
>karelia largely being populated by finnic peoples
Literally, when? In 12 century? Does 5-10k of people considered as "largely"?
>also a general disdain for slavs
Because someone of polish immigrants took your money in middle school? Your judgements are fucking joke, m8.
Ok lads, what have I done wrong with the changes I've made? Also, how the fuck do we fix the balkans/baltics and ukraine and bealrus while keeping in mind how large russia is? Pls critique
My Grandmother from my mothers side was born in Silesia and my Grandfather from my fathers side lived in East Prussia. Both fled west with their parents before the red army arrived. Everything they owned was taken and they had to build up from completely nothing again.
If he was just a Paradox digital board game autist he would at least know that you cannot just annex "muh lands" because there are people living there who may not like your rule, your ideas, or not share the identity of the conquering country creating a shitton of internal troubles for a country that just wants to be bigger on the map. Also in order to annex lands you dont show historical maps to people but you have to declare war and win it. And then hold it. Also, others may do the same to you.
So he's even worse than an Europa Universalis basement dwelling sperg.
He's a regular retard.
Square memel. This should not be allowed
>DUDE GROSSGERMANIUMS LMAO
>DUDE BENELUX LMAO
>DUDE SCANDINAVIA LMAO
>DUDE GREEK CONSTANTINOPLE LMAO
He just needs to add greater serbia and he becomes the poster child for grand strategy autists who pretends to know about geopolitics
What war did Poland win to annex German lands
Oh that's right, they're just a commie/Jew tool to punish Germans lmao
haha, they were a bit less ambitious than on my map I gave the netherlands flanders, dunkirk and a larger amount of low franconian speaking regions to the south and west of kleve.
>Are you sure about it?
what a brilliant refutation
>Literally, when? In 12 century? Does 5-10k of people considered as "largely"?
largely as in proportionally there have always been far more finns than russians in that area. it may have been sparsely settled by finns yes, but there have been fuck all russians there apart from strategic placements around the coast and border to control the region.
>Because someone of polish immigrants took your money in middle school? Your judgements are fucking joke, m8.
no, because poles act like complete cunts here and never like to acknowledge they did anything wrong, in spite of ethnically cleansing millions of germans from their current territory. there's always that one polish templar cunt who posts fictitious maps of a "lechina empire" that never existed and perpetuates the bullshit myth that those regions were ever devoid of a german population
Because the people living in provinces from the beginning of history have always been able to repel invasions because "muh feelings." Seem to have worked pretty well for your entire country of toilet cleaners over the last century.
Might makes right, retard.
Yes, poles didn't do much. They just got that land as compensation for actual polish land that soviets took from them.
The deal was that the allies would split Germany in three
So the Soviets simply ripped a huge part from Germany, gave it to the Poles, ripped a huge part from the Poles for the Russians, and then took another third from Germany
And 18 million Germans had to move, killing 500k to 2m
There's no reason not to want to take it back as a German, so I don't see a war over this as very far fetched if Europe ever manages to uncuck itself.
The Soviets won and distributed the lands as they saw fit with no regards to "muh history" and "muh heritage" whatsoever not to mention "muh rights". It should tell something about reality of politics to the "historical lands" autists but they ae beyond hope.
what europe is seeing now is akin to what the native americans had to go through. historic quibbles with the polish for the sake of german identity and nationhood will become secondary to preserving core european identity.
a war with russia in the near future probably wouldn't affect western european borders. the most likely thing to cause instability in the forseeable future will be the demographic shift caused by mass non-european migration and the growing influence of islam. it will be their effect on europe which could potentially redraw its borders.
Many people don't consider how fast the correct government could change the course. But as long as there is NATO nothing will happen.
yes, we get it. historic border conflicts aren't as important as dealing with modern hordes of brown people, but this is our escapism, this is us using our imagination for the sake of it.
and for me the nature of the maps is explicitly historic, i don't propose shit like as something that could be arranged here and now.
Obviously Poland isn't just going to give it back.
If we had huge slabs of France I wouldn't want to give it back either.
But there's motivation for nationalist Germans to want it back, and then some.
Unrealistic, sure, but even Kohl had good chances to get some clay back.
The most likely scenario right now is all of Europe going to total shit and staying shit forever to come, including Eastern Europe.
But that's not very fun to think about, is it?