Is (((he))) right? Is Bernie really not a socialist?
(((Bernie Sanders))) Isn't a socialist
Oliver Scott
Other urls found in this thread:
theatlantic.com
npr.org
huffingtonpost.com
commondreams.org
socialism.wikia.com
theatlantic
archive.is
npr
unvis.it
huffingtonpost
archive.is
commondreams
unvis.it
washingtonpost.com
cnbc.com
pewresearch.org
youtube.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
Isaiah White
Bernie is a social democrat which means he still works within the confines of the capitalist system and is afraid of truly reforming it. Bernie would be center right in Europe, he's not even close to a real leftist. Left for America but not really left.
Andrew Miller
No he's a social democrat
Sebastian Martin
Socialist lite. Still a socialist but to be honest he'd be a righty in EU. For America though, the term applies perfectly.
Anthony Rodriguez
"Free" college and "free" healthcare, will throw the country into a high tax socialistic nightmare before you can say "It's not real socialism".
Oh, no! He's not proposing seizing the means of production, just tax them at 90%.
Jayden Sanchez
His honeymoon was in the Soviet Union.
He called himself a socialist when he was mayor and still does.
He joined the Young People's Socialist League (the youth affiliate of the Socialist Party of America) when he was in college.
The media friendly to him says he's a socialist:
theatlantic.com
huffingtonpost.com
And, what's more, the Socialism wiki says he's a socialist: socialism.wikia.com
The guy's a socialist, everyone who says otherwise either doesn't know socialism or is a liar, no exceptions.
Jayden Kelly
Into archive
>theatlantic com/politics/archive/2015/10/bernie-sanders-mayor/407413
archive.is
>npr org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/27/434872755/exactly-what-kind-of-socialist-is-bernie-sanders
unvis.it
>huffingtonpost com/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-socialist_n_7182752.html
archive.is
>commondreams org/news/2017/08/25/bernie-sanders-nations-highest-profile-socialist-once-again-voted-most-popular
unvis.it
Eli Walker
nobody whose ideas start coming close to fruition or further examination gets to stay as a "real" leftist of any flavour, just like no system that enacts leftism of any flavour gets to remain being considered a viable or complete example
Anthony Butler
Bernie would be left in America, he's not even close to a real rightwinger. Right for Europe but not really right.
Anthony Torres
Socialism is a meme
William Hill
Bra jobba! Du er vel tilfeldvis ikke en moderator på NFF?
Brody Bailey
Has nordbot always been able to archive multiple links?
Jose Price
>mfw you pay higher taxes % than most of the rich in this country.
Parker Taylor
Guess he updated his script. Wonder if he does it for free.
Joshua Ross
Bernie supports total government regulation and control of all major industry, and government run healthcare, even government run banks
There's very little room for him to go further left.
Jack Murphy
Camden Bennett
anyone know that graph that explains when you move far enough to the extreme right the old crazies start to look like the moderate center?
Nathaniel Wood
impressive.
most impressive.
keep up kek's work blessed nordbot
Oliver Wright
Nordbro is a real person, using scripts. He does what he wants
He also takes vacation a lot
I mean, hes in norway after all
Connor Foster
What is the bar these kikes are setting? America has been a socialist nation since FDR.
Grayson Gonzalez
>Bernie calls himself a socialist
>he's not a socialist
>terrorist calls himself a Muslim
>he's not a Muslim
>man calls himself a woman
>you have to believe her!
I would say the left has become nothing more than a joke at this point, but a joke is usually funny
Eli Hughes
He also dislike that we "spam" the threads with off-topic by talking about him. I think i know what kind of forum he's from.
Christian Perez
>all major industry
[citation required]
Samuel Nelson
No, he's just another centrist democrat, just one who plays "good cop" for the public while letting the others appear comparatively moderate.
Kevin King
We've gone from
>it wasn't real socialism
to
>it will not have been real socialism
Josiah Torres
The only real difference between America and Europe is that they got a more socialized health carr system. Other than than it's not really that different.
Connor Williams
Bernie isn't a socialist he's just a new deal democrat, you have to remember the new deal was and is as American as apple pie back in the day. Even Eisenhower said when he was president that anybody who doesn't support the new deal isn't a American.
Ayden Long
You don't make enough money for your taxes to make a difference in these programs.
What do you think it means when the top 1% has 40% of our nations wealth?
The richest 10% owns 76%.
These taxes would only sort of effect you, and frankly i don't see how it could be more expensive personally to me than Obamacare.
It would also get sky-rocketing drug/care prices to stabilize, and it would cut out the insurance middlemen.
Thomas Miller
yes but red scum by any other name is still red scum
Owen Nguyen
American government is totally different from European system as far as leftism goes.
Jaxon Ramirez
>I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves.
You can make the argument that he's more communist than socialist, but you can't argue he's centrist
William Moore
Ah, just took a quote from 41 years ago. Right, yes.
Aiden Clark
Eisenhower was okay on the Beaner Question but he was also a shill and ruthless butcher for ZOG.
Evan Rogers
Are jews actually putting ((())) around their names on twitter? not a twitterfag sorry
Jordan Smith
He wouldn't end there if he had the choice
Nathan Hernandez
I don't remember him denouncing capitalism but he agrees on everything a socialist would say a about the economy. I do remember him saying good things about the Sandinistas and Fidel Castro.
Angel Brown
Explain.
Jaxson Cook
>illegal to deny holocaust in israel
LOL
Connor Cruz
Nobody is a socialist because a REAL socialist would have won the election and built utopia by now. Bernie is just a bigotted racist white fuck and probably a trump supporter/neo nazi/fascist. If this was the harry potter universe, he would be in slytherin along with hillary and GRMPLUPHT.
Noah Garcia
Lol this.
Joshua Bailey
During the election he complained about shit like there being too many brands of deodorant on the market and lamented the fact that the abundance of choice meant that effort was being wasted on unnecessary things.
Gavin Ward
[citation required]
Jordan Phillips
Bernie is amazingly consistent though, and constantly points out that he hasn't changed his positions in decades
Julian Walker
yeah they tried to "reclaim" it a long time ago but ended up just making it easier for us.
Easton Miller
Yeah hes a communist.
Owen Bailey
Okay, I'm sure you can provide a similiar quote that's remotely new.
Noah Kelly
Stop with this meme that Europe is some place thats way more left than the US. The US enabled fag marriage before a lot of European countries, even in western Europe (and almost all eastern European countries) and the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. There is a reason why businesses move their headquarters to Europe.
Isaac Bennett
>everything is left in europe
No wonder it fucking sucks there
Jason Flores
What is there to explain, theres the socialist nordic model and continental model in the landlocked countries, there ten times more socialist actually socialist then America ever was. I mean that obvious, the only place that isn't like Europe thats in Europe is the Swis, and the only reason that works is because of the small population and treaties.
Lincoln Hernandez
cnbc.com
"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. "
Wyatt Reed
Put this in perspective. You may pay 1-9% for state tax. That roughly 3% average pays for ALL state services (roads, education, police, medicaid, etc.). A nationalized healthcare and education will only be a few percent extra. Education probably 1% and healthcare at 3% (not a 3% increase because Medicare is already 1.15%, and state Medicaid will be not needed).
Like the other poster said what the average person makes won't be a big deal. The rich pay more, and they should because they're just siphoning wealth in capital gains where whoever came with the investment money first wins.
Ryder Stewart
Do some research
The top 2% pays the 50% of the income tax
pewresearch.org
>What do you think it means when the top 1% has 40% of our nations wealth?
That capitalism is working. Inside the top 10% you have Musk, late Jobs, Sergei Brin, Gates, Waltons.
All of them there by merit.
What do u propose, give control of top wealth to mediocre schmucks.
What do u think will happen if, for example, if you got control of Walmart by govmt. force? You'll drive it to the ground in 5 years.
Wealth can be destroyed, and fast.
>The richest 10% owns 76%
That's fair.
Jaxon Russell
I mean, that's an objectively true statement. However, he was pointing to the growing gap between the lower, middle, and upper class. Not seizing the 'major industries'
kek
Cameron Morales
If he was willing to work in the confines of a capitalist system he wouldn't be pushing a single payer healthcare bill. Fuck off with your democide wishes. Actually, let's compromise. Purge you and yours.
Justin Taylor
>that's an objectively true statement
No it's not. It's a sad, vague attempt to blame the woes of starving children on "consumerism," which is barely a stone's throw from the usual blame commiefags set on capitalism because some niglet in Detroit isn't being fed by his crackhead mom.
Henry Gonzalez
Dylan Richardson
"Having a breadline is a good thing"
Zachary Taylor
Are you saying that:
A/ there aren't tons of choice in those products?
B/ children are not hungry in this country?
Angel Nguyen
What I trip out on is how people wouldn't be for taxing people who have literal billions and hundred of millions in the bank, like I can understand a business guy works hard has a couple of million maybe ten million max. Anything over that is really not worth having because you'll never spend it, the average lower middle class person makes two million over the course of a lifetime, so having enough for five lifetimes if you work hard I see as reasonable. Enough to own a home buy a couple of cars and put your children throw college and take vacations every now and again. But to have hundreds of millions of dollars? For what, to buy some car that was in some movie that people liked, that you'll drive once around the block....
Joseph Sanchez
youtube.com
>Libraries, police, and fire departments are socialist
Lol no, now, whether he was more radical in his younger years or is still a socialist at heart doesn't change the fact that he ran on a socdem platform, the most radical (if you can even call it that) recent position he's held was support for coops which we have today and throughout most of the western world
Sebastian Hernandez
>le nordic model meme
It's not that different you stupid faggot. I pointed out the main difference already and the other things like guns and hate speech are really minute. They even rank FREER than the US on trade. Yes tthey are on the left of the US but not as dramatic as faggot socialists make it out to be.
Isaac Moore
what's a fair number for me to keep above 100k?
Hunter Evans
It doesn't matter how large the percent they pay yearly if they still have 3/4 of the wealth at the end of the fiscal year.
Discovering charts on increasing wealth inequality is a simple search. It will continue to increase especially with automation and cheap labor.
I agree in merit and do very well for myself, yet to believe that crony capitalism is a good thing I find ill-sighted. No one should have too much wealth because no "merit" is enough to warrant 10s of billions. Many of these people had great ideas but also benefited from timing, entrance to market, tax incentives, etc.
Jordan Price
>implying you even make 100k
Blake Clark
God bless you sir
Isaac Jackson
if the more i make the more you take, what makes me grow my wealth? if you take greed off the table, why would i want to make more?
Alexander Cox
Exactly. Shows like 'secret lives of the super rich' just show unnecessary indulgence. Do you really need to spend $5 million to play bumper cars with Rolls Royces?
Jose Murphy
What ever you say, not here to argue because it won't change anything, what you said can be debunked by someone who is more educated on the topic then me forsake because I've seen it done before.
Dominic Stewart
now connect the two like he did you communist faggot
Juan Stewart
He calls himself a Democratic socialist, not a social democrat. He might pretend to be a social democrat, but deep down he's a communist. Pic related.
Jaxson Miller
((( (((Jacob Webster))) )))
Aiden Ramirez
>implying i don't
>implying that's even impressive
>implying you won't demand i post my tax returns
>
>
>
>implying you have an argument
>implying you won't eventually kill yourself
>implying i won't ask you to
Kayden Miller
>grasping at straws to prove a point
kek
Carson Clark
>what you said can be debunked by someone who is more educated on the topic then me
This says it all folks.
Robert Brown
This is basic Adam Smith philosophy of having private property for profit will get people off their asses and work. I know what you mean.
Regardless, resources are scarce. If all capital goes into the hands of the few, everyone else will suffer. But..why would you care because you got the money?
Then comes the riots/wars, and people from countries we stole wealth from immigrate here and become "Dreamers".
Capitalism has been a largely successful system, but it has not been around forever. If it's negative aspects are not dealt with, the social order that allows to capitalism to flourish will collapse and you're fiat currency of billions will be worth toilet paper.
Dominic Wright
And North Korea calls itself a democratic people's republic! Must be the most free nation in the whole world, aye?
Elijah Harris
Yea I'm sure Bernie supporting guns is really as leftist as you can get
Nicholas Anderson
Well yeah I mean obviously I don't enough about economics to describe in full, all I'm saying is that the nordic model has more social programs and works more efficiently and isn't working around a capitalist government, because they have a more proper mixed model, and plus you didn't say anything about the continental model so your just trying to push what you think is right, you know for a fact there not close to the same. Your just saying it, so nobody is going to change your or my mind.
Thomas Bailey
>free everything
>not socialist
Angel Sanders
That isn't really a valid argument IMO, but >No one should have too much wealth because no "merit" is enough to warrant 10s of billions.
is asinine. If there are no loopholes in a progressive tax bracket system, yeah, there is an argument to be made that it is a form of disincentive, but there is still incentive to make more. Having a net income of 5.1 million is still more attractive than a net income of 4.9 million, even if they had to contend with a 20% higher tax rate on that extra income to get it. The question becomes whether or not the extra effort is worth it to the individual, if they even see it as extra effort and not simply a continuation of what they are already doing, just doing it more effectively.
Carson Allen
so, rhetoric and platitudes? you don't have an answer that isn't specifically crafted for a captive audience. you can't convince even a half-assed capitalist that your way is right. you rely on kike media to shame people your way at a young age.
Grayson Rodriguez
No, moronic mediocre schmuck. You need 5 billion to develop a rocket, the hyperloop, electric cars, cures for diseases, etc.
Who are you to limit what Musk can have or do, for example?
Or Gates, or Jobs, or Disney?
Sebastian Ward
What is the benefit to the ruling class if everyone got 15 dollars an hour or a mandatory universal income?
John Ortiz
He's a vpn
Josiah Jenkins
...
Owen Green
>even government run banks
Yeah so? How's that different from lolbertarians who want what we got, bank run government?
Cameron Robinson
That's different there putting their profit towards the betterment of humanity, i.e. musk and gates, and there morally sound unlike most. Apples and oranges, they would understand such implications in government. What I'm talking about in theory is something that defines the persons wealth by characteristics morality, and Disney shouldn't be compared to Musk or Gates. Disney is bad lol
Sebastian Garcia
They get to keep the capitalist system from going into a major crisis (consumption crash), and their own heads on their shoulders instead of pikes.
Luis Foster
i (((think))) {{{he}}} is [[[a]]] ([{socialist}])
Xavier Turner
I don't think anyone likes crony capitalism. But it is more efficient than socialism. Also, open borders plus socialism leads to the death of your country.
Bentley Reyes
>mixed model
That's what we are you idiot.
Hell even fucking china is a mixed model. They still run certain industries like the steel industry exactly like they did during the communist era
Cameron Thompson
>The question becomes whether or not the extra effort is worth it to the individual, if they even see it as extra effort and not simply a continuation of what they are already doing, just doing it more effectively.
exactly.
the point is if the owner doesn't make money the employees don't make money. the goal should be for every person with the sack to start a business to run it to the moon. the more successful the risk taker is the more his workers make. i know commies deny this, but they are mental children.
i posit: the more incentive for the rich to make more, the more mobility for the workers
they posit: the more disincentive for the rich to make more, the more mobility for workers
if you think about it for more than an instant and/or have ever held the same job for more than six months, this is obvious.
Lincoln Walker
>they still have 3/4 of the wealth at the end of the fiscal year.
Its not "your" wealth, it is not "the wealth", its THEIR wealth because they created it and they keep it valuable.
What's your problem with the smartest hard working people having 3/4 of the total wealth?
Do u think wealth is a static qty that if somebody else has it, you don't?
Wealth is dynamic, Its created everyday and can be destroyed fast by govmt, or stupid heirs, or bad decisions.
You want wealth? CREATE IT.
You want better distribution? CREATE a lot of wealth (your wealth) and then distribute it as you like it. That's what Gates is doing, on a world scale.
Mason Gonzalez
I believe I understand what you mean. That is, someone is going to want to increase their income to $5.1 million via. effort or just because that's next year's projected income.
Well, first I think the tax rate shouldn't bump up dramatically. Even the middle class takes pay cut to not pay the higher tax. I say incremental (1% increases).
Also, in extremely high income situations i.e. billionaires there should just be a cap. This is necessary to *prevent* the collapse of capitalism via. inequality leading to social chaos. All income over a certain point is complete tax.
It might disincentive them from trying to get a higher income, but that's the point anyway. Keep in mind this won't affect you or anyone you know, just the richest of the rich.
Jordan Murphy
He never heard of The Pareto principle.
Chase Nelson
I said more of a proper mixed model, stop nit picking what I said.
See if this was like a live debate I would've just corrected you for twisted my words.
Benjamin Davis
Ok, I see. When you grow up, you'll understand. Keep this in mind: wealth belongs to the one producing it.
Lucas Gray
So you want every American to be able to buy one cheeseburger instead? Fuck that. I'd rather the smart rich guy open up another business and employ those lazy fucks.
Jason Jenkins
Yo I completely agree. Borders should be shut, and immigration controlled. I just think socialist education/medicine will only result in a few percent tax increase in a country with the tax base of America. The middle class would end up with a net benefit not having to pay for health insurance and more importantly surgical procedures.
Like everything in life, a mixed system not going extreme (crony capitalism, full on socialism) is the best balance of competition, markets, and safety net.
Connor Hall
Whatever you say, there are just as many arguments against then for, objective truth doesn't sit in your right wing perfect world or in a left on either, I figure that to be the most grown up thing anyone can admit.