Single Payer, why not?

What's the argument against single payer health care other than I don't want to pay for (pic related). You're paying for insurance which is esentially the same thing.

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forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#5086005a2ff5
unvis.it/forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#5086005a2ff5
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>What's the argument against state controlled food production and distribution other than I don't want to pay for. You're paying at supermarkets which is essentially the same thing.
This is what commies believe.

Easier to just let people keep more of the money they earn and buy the plans they need themselves in a nationwide marketplace, just as Trump is planning

fat people dont deserve health care
die of heart disease already holy shit

Our agriculture is state controlled anyway through subsidies

Subsidies are completely different from Soviet-style control of a sector. Just giving them money while allowing them to continue their business as usual won't necessarily hurt them (at least not directly).
What you are proposing is forcing people to accept a service they might not want and creating an artificial monopoly with no incentives to provide a better service. It's exactly what the soviets did (and you know how that worked out for them).

Single payer is too efficient. I want the US government to waste as much money as they possibly can, for accelerationism.

The problem is most people if up to them will not save for the future and will not invest in protection and then blame anyone but themselves when shit happens.

rationing, lack of growth in supply

You sir are evil and dont even realize it because you need someone to debunk your idea. The real question is, Why do you have the right to take my money to pay for your mistakes when I have made good and healthy decisions?

My idea is that only actual tax payers get the benefits of goods paid for by taxes.

>than
>than
where are the grammar nazis when you need them

It fucking sucks. Would you like to wait eleven hours in the emergency room only to get a bed in the hallway?

There's a reason all of the world's medical advances come from America and not the UK.

That literally doesn't answer my question at all, I have made good decisions for the majority of my life in relation to my health so why should I have to pay more in taxes to subsidize someone else's fuck-ups? What the fuck does it matter that someone pays taxes? Its okay because you take money from everybody? Say you're in a room with five people and they vote to beat you up and take your money, somehow that makes it ok? God I hate socialists.

not like I made the image
*Shrug*

Maybe you shouldn't go to the emergency room to get your strange rash looked at.

T R I A G E
R
I
A
G
E

You already pay more in insurance (or your employer does) to cover the costs of emergency room visits for Paco when he doesn't pay up.

It's filled with people who have a cold or "don't feel good" because it doesn't cost a thing to walk in there for bullshit.

They are too stupid to go to a clinic like they should famalam

Healthcare is really expensive and most can't afford it. With insurance everybody pays a little bit and then the few people who do get hurt get taken care of. The problem is the large amounts of leeches that pay literally nothing. They also help drive up already high costs to much higher levels making it even harder for productive people who do pay.

Honestly if we could figure out how to tell these people to fuck off out of emerg for non-issues. our healthcare would be perfect.

Rationing, long wait times, (in America) will be staffed by pic related because our federal government is basically a wealth transfer to nonwhites at this point.

I want competent doctors, I want to be able to see upfront what something is going to cost me. The fact that you can't is why things are wonky, no pricing scheme means no proper functioning. The solution is price, not some federal bureaucracy staffed by nigs rationing care.

Not quite perfect, the wait times for specialists is insane. But a hell of a lot better for everyday issues or emergencies.

Exactly

What about The Public Option? I always find it weird how nobody supports that one.

I don't mind paying a little, but this isn't gonna cost me a fortune is it. kek

The Free Market in healthcare was driving down costs in the past, but then government 'fixed' the problem. You guys are real smart. Look up information about Lodge Practices. I don't mind subsidizing people I know and care about, but I do mind subsidizing Paco even if he is a taxpaying citizen.

I think if we tried to pull out the whole show for everyone we would just go broke. but thats pretty much what they do now anyway,

It's also what every other civilized country does for healthcare.

rich people get 12 heart transplants, no one else does.

Wow. The picture is correct, white people have been slaving to make black people fat. It's almost like Satan asked for leadership of Earth and God gave it. Oops He did grant Satan that..and look at the state of the world.

Because we're bigger?
Most of our best clinics are nonprofit.

You're gonna need healthcare at some point, user. I hope that you or a loved one gets into an accident and is left with chronic health issues. Fag.

nonprofit, thats funny, you make joke, i laugh.

>Lodge Practices
Never existed except in the minds of a few libertarian bloggers.

>You're paying at supermarkets which is essentially the same thing.
Wrong. I don't have to pay for insurance if I don't want it. I can pay cash and pay only for what I use.

Basically everyone needs healthcare at some point. Avoiding drugs, tobacco, and inactivity only does so much. After 40-45 years people tend to develop issues.

The Wiki entry for Johns Hopkins literally says "not-for-profit."

>until they gracelessly expire

lost it

you don't make that kind of profit in a non profit, someones getting payed.

>Your a fat ass outside western government controls
>Our agriculture is state controlled anyway through subsidies
And you do not see the problem with this. Congratulations, your an idiot welcome to the club.

That doesn't explain why we need single payer, when the individual (guy you are replying to) could pursue his own insurance for his family, etc.

As a side note, people are pathologically afraid of dying even when it would make sense. If you are on 30 medications and are 90 years old and your quality of life is basically "watch wheel of fortune while your grandkids don't visit the home", it's probably time to call it a day. Yet instead, we provide an absurd amount of care, far beyond the diminishing return curve. It's not even an ageism thing, it's just that our culture has decided that death is NOT inevitable, and we can prolong it's arrival by spending ever-more money.

The human body truly wasn't built to live as long as we are making it, we are already pushing it far beyond its natural breaking point (and certainly we shouldn't just give in to minor infections like our ancestors should), and we need to have a serious societal and medical conversation about when it's appropriate to just end medical care. this issue will not get better as we get older, since our generation will likely live to be over 100, or even 120 for some people. We are talking people who may retire at 70 and not work for 50 years before they die. They didn't necessarily work much for the first 20 years, meaning they are productive for 50, then unproductive for about 70 of that 120 year theoretical life. We have to find a solution.

insurance is for me not for fat people that have an option to be fat or not to be fat before they are fat
conclusion? fuck fatpipo

Actually hospitals often get around this by paying a lot for expansion projects. You see, money spent on the hospital itself (or donated elsewhere) doesn't always count as profit (depending on the state). Ever notice how hospitals are almost always under construction or renovation somewhere? That's where a lot of it is going.

Alternatively, they count care for people who just don't pay (homeless people who give fake names/addresses) towards the "non-profit" part. Given the poverty in Baltimore, they probably spend a lot on those people.

Conclusion ???? Your a faggot shill, now fuck off with your conclusion you don't find favorable.Considering it has already been enshrined........ but that would go against your narrative ...oh my .... so progressive.... etc stfu and get back to me when you come up with something original.

>I want competent doctors, I want to be able to see upfront what something is going to cost me. The fact that you can't is why things are wonky, no pricing scheme means no proper functioning. The solution is price, not some federal bureaucracy staffed by nigs rationing care.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that when the ambulance picks you up form your car accident they are going to hold off on fixing the steering wheel sticking out of your chest to give you the pricing sheet for every local hospital and let you decide which one you want to go to

>You're paying for insurance which is esentially the same thing.
Insurance is available at various levels of coverage, and people are charged different amounts based on risk factors.

As a leaf, I can say based on experience that single-payer sucks all ass.

i want to go to that one with chic-fella down stairs. yeah yah.

>I do mind subsidizing Paco even if he is a taxpaying citizen.

Youre already subsidizing him and every other person that doesnt have insurance that gets sick and goes to the ER. The hospitals and drs are charging everyone else more.

that's the whole reason you want everyone covered by insurance.

Wow I've been debunked very articulately, wtf I hate the free market now.

You're getting gassed.

JESUS CHRIST SOCIALISTS CAN NOT FUCKING LISTEN I'M DONE.

500K-1M is middle class.

Most the people I know are middle class and they're pulling in 600K/yr easily.

This is fucking stupid. Government doesn't just collect money from willing taxpayers to pay companies to build roads, they also have the power to use eminent domain to seize whatever land is necessary to build the road where it needs to go, and the power to force unwilling taxpayers to contribute, so there's neither a free rider problem nor toll booths at the end of your driveway.

Do you have any idea what a nightmare it would be to build a road system without those powers?

>The Free Market in healthcare

There is no free market in healthcare because most medical procedures are compelled. You cant have a free market for emergency care, medically necessary surgeries, etc. Also you cant have a free market for health care because for most people in this country their is no choice for healthcare beyond PCPs. Outisde of the major cities, most people only have 1 hospital and a limited set of specialist drs available to them. So unless you're ultra rich and can travel, you're stuck. Having a free market wont change that.

Their exists a free market in cosmetic and plastic surgery because non of that is medically necessary or compelled.

I don't want to lose 3/4ths of my paycheck to get shitty healthcare. With private insurance I see my doctor the same day and if it's early enough in the day, I can get whatever tests/scans done by a specialist too, if needed. Surgeries are done in a few weeks. My cousin in Canada gave up on getting a rotator cuff surgery because it would be years until it was time to go under the knife.

This is one of the most important criticisms for our healthcare system today. Emergency services are almost universally compelled.

Now choice in primary care, etc., that's different. And someday with VR that may be much more flexible.

Start dumping these on twitter with the hashtag #YouAreNotWhite

Also respond to jews with it

i dunno probably the same reason california voted down single payer recently :^)

The argument is it goes against what makes the country (or use to) strong...earning your benefits...

Also america has a shitload of people, this isnt canada or scandanavia...it would be insanely expensive. Also, our government is incredibly horrible at everything it does other than killing other people...which is not the combination of qualities you want in someone running health care.

Top it off with a population of individuals who only care about themselves and nothing more...you have a recipe for an entitlement that is too expensive to use, and provides shitty service, thats heavily restricted and tied to insane taxes....At least right now under the "planned to fail so single payer can exist" obamacare the service is top tier (other wise why so many canadians and brits comming here to pay out of pocket for health care?)

We all see it as a horrible idea, and just because something works good in a country with 5-20 million doesnt mean its going to work well in a totally borderless nation of nearly 400million all of which are entitled fucks that think other people should pay for their benefits.

Also i cant wait for affirmative action to enter the single payer realm...thats gonna be awesome

Not a socialist at all. Just a realist. Unless your proposal is to refuse treatment to those people and let them die in the streets, which is a fine proposal but realistically unfeasible, you have to accept the fact that someone has to pay for those peoples care. The only way for that to happen is either to have the government reimburse the hospitals, which they do in many cases, or have the hospitals price those costs to everyone else. Either way, we are paying, either through taxes for the reimbursements or through higher premiums ad higher medical bills. There are only so many ways to tackle this, short of a government run single payer system, that I am not 100% convinced is the right way to go, then you have to pool that risk in some way and the most realistic and easy way to do that is get them in the insurance system.

I think Singapore(?) has this system:

Everyone has, essentially, a health savings account with X amount of dollars in it.
When you go to the doctor, you draw from that HSA.
When you reach the life-time maximum, you have to appeal to a panel for them to approve any future spending. Anything you want to pay for privately, fine.

That could work, feasibly.

Just have state run emergency hospitals and everything else run on separate system.

Why should I pay for some obese, diabetic nigress that uses EBT to get big macs?

>rationing

the dirty little secret of controlling healthcare costs is that some form of rationing is required in order to get healthcare costs under control

Most of them just don't belong around white people or our Nations.

We tried it and we won't forget it!

In many ways thats the system we have now. Poor people only show up the ER, often give a fake name/address to avoid billing, then bounce. They often don't have real Primary Care Physicians, just the ER doctor. The state then reimburses the hospital, or the patient uses medicaid (if they bother to pay at all).

>Why should I pay for some obese, diabetic nigress that uses EBT to get big macs?

Letting people die is a fine position to take, but even you have to admit that that is not a realistic scenario that is ever going to happen. So you need to deal with the reality of what we have.

Or meaningfully increasing supply by increasing the number of Physicians Assistants, Doctors, and Nurse Practitioners.

Her and her fucking baby-daddy, fresh of the boat.

Listen, I'm a monarchist. I'm fine with having positions that the masses disagree with.

right so letting the welfare state collapse so the problem is worse later on is so much better

>Or meaningfully increasing supply by increasing the number of Physicians Assistants, Doctors, and Nurse Practitioners.

That's not going to the financial realities of how much is spent on end of life care and how much is spent on specialist visits.

Yeah so why not formalize this? Explicitly say this hospital is free and then let it turn into blood letting and throwing bones while actual humans participate in a free market system for humans.

>Listen, I'm a monarchist. I'm fine with having positions that the masses disagree with.

Understood but that doesn't get us closer to fixing the system.

>right so letting the welfare state collapse so the problem is worse later on is so much better

The point is that doesn't have to happen. You can fix the system, and it doesn't have to be a single payer government controlled system to do it.

the (((system)))?

Jesus Christ on a cracker, you're retarded. Government regulations, corrupt government, and rampant abuse of our civil courts towards doctors and hospitals have made them so astronomically expensive. Coupled with Pharma Company patents and other stupid bullshit on their end, to say we have ever let the free market work is a down and out lie. YOU ARE A FUCKING SOCIALIST. I know this because you can't even consider another possibility because you're so spoonfed it's sickening. At least be honest with yourself fuckhead.

Guess what, then they die. A generation later will learn the lesson

true, but it may help reduce a lot of copay fees and drop labor costs by forcing doctors to compete, instead of the current system where doctors are being begged to show up (you should see the offers doctors are getting by hopsitals in bumfuck nowhere).

no it's filled with fat fucks that have abdominal pain, that are sicker than corpses downstairs in the morgue, people who gave up on their lives decades prior... that's who

ESI 5. You're gonna get an ulcer from that plastic chair that is your new home for 12 hours.

>fossil fuels
>literally dinosaur bones

Who wrote this stupid shit

I would be morbidly interested in seeing the necromancy hospital as described.

Unfortunately, this ties into the "increase the supply" aspect, since announcing something as "free" will create lines out the door.

EU and Canadian healthcare doesn't suck because they take too long, that's just a side effect of them having people using it so much. Which granted, they are entitled to (since they pay for it), but there just aren't enough caretakers to meet demand.

The local hospital where I am has a psychiatrist booked 4 months in advance, because he has 9 hours of patients every day 5 days a week. His worker bee counselors are all booked up too. There just aren't enough, and that's just for one specialist (one that typically gets ignored). Once everyone wants a "free" cardiologist... well I imagine it'd be similar. I'm just not sure we can meet the supply for a truly open system like that. I think the Singapore (i think) system would work to encourage people to ration their own healthcare to use it when they need it, would reduce a lot of insurance waste and guesswork, and still provide them basic care while giving them private option.

But that's just my opinion, and it can be disproved i'm sure.

>I want competent doctors, I want

>I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want

What you'll get is a medical screening. Appropriate treatment and either an overnight stay to fix what we can't now or a cold stare and you're out of here good luck with your life.

Go to your fucking primary care provider... unless you found out that you have, um, herpes simplex 10, and think Victor should go check himself out with his physician to make sure everything is fine before things start falling off on the man.

>Jesus Christ on a cracker, you're retarded. Government regulations, corrupt government, and rampant abuse of our civil courts towards doctors and hospitals have made them so astronomically expensive. Coupled with Pharma Company patents and other stupid bullshit on their end, to say we have ever let the free market work is a down and out lie. YOU ARE A FUCKING SOCIALIST. I know this because you can't even consider another possibility because you're so spoonfed it's sickening. At least be honest with yourself fuckhead.
Socialism would require advocating a government takeover of the system,. which I specifically said I did not want.

I never said we let a free market work in healthcare, I said its impossible to have a free market in health care because of the nature of compelled costs and the lack of negative price pressure.

Malpractice costs have a negligible impact on the overall cost of healthcare, a few percentage points at best.
forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#5086005a2ff5

As far as your statement on government regulations, the only way you control pharma company patents, and other stupid bullshit, is through government regulations.

unvis.it/forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#5086005a2ff5

When I pay for insurance, I pay for me, and I stay thin to keep that cost down. You should pay for you. Stop thinking you have a right to any of my income. None of this, you stealing my money at the threat of throwing me in prison to give to someone else for any reason is moral. If you want to give money give your own.

"A new study reveals that the cost of medical malpractice in the United States is running at about $55.6 billion a year - $45.6 billion of which is spent on defensive medicine practiced by physicians seeking to stay clear of lawsuits.
The amount comprises 2.4% of the nation’s total health care expenditure."

The healthcare industry is a multi trillion dollar a year industry. 55 billion is insignificant.

>When I pay for insurance, I pay for me, and I stay thin to keep that cost down
Actually you're not. That's not what insurance is.

Did she bounce off a Dodge Challenger as well?

Bingo. ER Nurse here, the bulk of our patients are severe abdominal pain. Mostly becuase people eat like absolute fucking shit. Bowel obstructions and NV are just par for the course. Residents are afraid of getting sued with NV /Abd pain patients (may be an MI) so instead of sending these people to go get fucking pepto the get the whole fucking shebang of blood work, fluids, malox, pepcid and zofran.

1 out of 1000 is someone actually having an MI.

Also- poor people are borderline retarded. A pack of chicken breasts which could feed a family of 4, a bag of rice and broccoli cost like $12-15 tops. Instead they spend $20 at McCucks and kill themselves in the process.

Our 4's and 5's go to a newly opened fast track unit... Where everyone gets fucking worked up as if they were in main ER becuase the MD/PA are afraid of getting sued.

Single-payer won't work in the US because it would require that the Federal government stand up to the AMA's completely absurd licensing practices and frankly there's too much money in it for the lobbyists to just roll over and play dead.

lel fucking rekt that guy

Level 2, We don't have a 24 hour Neurosurgeon or some shit. Our """Max""" is like 90. but we see more in the winter.

NP classes soon.

My man!

You want any advice? How long in?

1 yr med surg, 6 months ER

also yeah shoot if you've got anything good

who is this single payer? Soros?

get out now. it's getting much much worse. not sure what state you're in but ERs are going to get destroyed soon

In what way? More patients?

I'm starting NP school ASAP, spring or fall next year. I plan on being out in less than 3

pt ratios, volume, discharge times, more pts, more ED abuse, more fed oversight, JCAHO bullshit, etc... trust me.

It's the future.

Don't let the demands of the ED hold back your FNP future. get into a clinic somewhere chill and remember the dream of work-life balance.