Explain yourselves

I was raised a christian, when I reached a certain age I realised the stupidity and absurdity of it and started my slow transition into a non-believer.

Their was a specific moment when I was in church, everyone was raising their hands and worshiping - I looked around the room and was suddenly frustrated. The overwhelming realisation hit me that the only people there (and at all other churches I had been to) were either there for some sort of support, or because it was tradition/the community thing.

I realised that the only people who became 'born again' were people with some kind of weakness, vulnerability or void in their life which needed to be filled.

I read 'God is not Great', which sealed the deal for me. Totally recommend it to ANYONE.

After about 7 years of research, realisations and introspection, I could never go back. And I will never be able to come to terms with the immense plot holes, incredibility and downright obvious stupidity in the bible and other religions.

Upon recently taking the red pill, unwillingly at first, and then discovering Sup Forums and the treasure trove of inconvenient truths here, I have a question.

Why is there so much Christian shilling here? Is it just because people with an inferiority complex need something which makes them feel superior to the 'commoners'? Or is it shilling to discredit this board?

I just don't understand how a place of such unbelievably raw truth can be so infested with such an inconcievable ideology. When there is an Islam thread or something like that, it is clearly shilling or provocation. But the tendency to believe in Christian doctrine on this board seems quite genuine.

Not even looking to insult anyone here (although I've probably already done that), just genuinely interested in getting a discussion going and possibly understanding this phenomenon.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/MRiJSio7Yrw
youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis
youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8yHnAcZCw
bethinking.org/atheism/the-dawkins-letters/6-almost-certainly-a-god
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

So how did we get the universe out of nothing dipshit

This. I just don't see how anyone can believe in a deity if they've read any of Dawkins or Hitchen's work. It's literally no different than worshipping Zeus or Posieden or Jupiter. Religion is antiquated, old-fashioned, and, most importantly, wrong.

>support
>tradition
>community

this is why church is necessary for a healthy white society, personally i think it takes enormous strength to maintain these values, and anyone who lets go of them are weak

Values are one thing, and I'd rather have Christianity dominate society than Islam or Judaism, but do you really believe it?

Some things for you to consider:
- Why you actually made this post. Consider its tone.
- Where you are in life and how you relate to the world. A good book is powerful, but consider how many other books you have to create a complete picture in your mind.
- All the things you don't know yet.
- All the things we can't explain that make life wondrous and mysterious, even in this day and age.

I was never religious all my life and had always been a believer in reason and science until it spoke to me. God, allah, architect of the universe whatever you want to call it, we are not alone.

you are just tainted with the atheism in media, you believe science is God's word and yet it's all crap

not in the literal sense, metaphorically i can understand how it can shape a person and underpin the values of western society, but i was never raised religiously, so i wouldn't hold the same sentiments as you i suppose

That's fair. I'm willing to accept the positive impact that Christianity has had on my life, the values that were instilled in me and my outlook of the world are largely due to a Christian upbringing. But yeah, if I ever went back to church I would be faking it.

This is such a common excuse for religious belief.

'I just KNOW God is real'

'I just can't explain it, I can feel it'

On the other hand I can't accept that the universe simply popped out of nothing. If the bible has (or seems to have) holes, worse is science which is incapable of explaining how the universe came to be. The odds are something greater created all this. This is where I place my bet.

Wow OP, all that time wasted being an idiot.

Learn what abiogenesis is, how Carbon-14 is dead wrong, and watch Kent Hovind CSE 101

>the only way the universe could've been created is if the Christian god made it

>I realised that the only people who became 'born again' were people with some kind of weakness, vulnerability or void in their life which needed to be filled.
That's called sin, yeah. Without religion, life is objectively meaningless. But hey, we're the idiots for believing the most-scribed book ever written, full of historical eyewitness accounts that people literally gave their lives willfully to preserve, right?

Pray for the Holy spirit to move in OP and cleanse this frustration he's feeling.

>Consider its tone.
This.

It's amazing how talking snakes, talking donkeys, and talking burning bushes don't raise alarm bells until you're freed from the fear of hell that comes with Christianity. It's hard to break the programming when you're raised from birth in it.

If it helps you were never a Christian.

>Without religion, life is objectively meaningless
Why does religion make life not meaningless?

This

Because the meaning of life is determined by God? Is this a troll?

Jesus gives explicit instructions for 1) what you should strive to do with your life and 2) why you should strive for it. Without a lawgiver, there's no law.

Devil, gift of speech from God, and God himself.

Atheism's logical conclusion is nihilism

Read the betrayal of tradition, or work by Christian apologists, or some traditionalist stuff by evola or guenon.
It isn't that Christianity is great and has the answers; rather they adhere to and uphold perennial values that are transmitted through all ancient axial-age religions. The new amoral, atheist trends of relative morality have lead to a rejection of virtue and truth. We are in an age of sterility, bare of spiritual purpose. Sadly, modernity has upheld pragmatism as the highest method of living the good life. Pragmatism has a absolute indifference to truth.

Why is there so much Christian shilling here?
>A: ...the only people who became 'born again' were people with some kind of weakness, vulnerability or void in their life which needed to be filled.

Yeah. The inability to be as God.

Because if there's no afterlife, nothing really matters. Atheists have to give meaning to their own life and most are too stupid to do so, so they become nihilists.

i think you just need to change your perspective towards it, but the dwindling of christianity is the reason western society is collapsing, humans will always seek idolatry and tribal mentality with or without religion, you'd either wind up worshipping celebrities or women or politics in the end anyway, you may as well look up to a "father" to avoid degeneracy

So what's the meaning of life?
>Jesus gives explicit instructions for 1) what you should strive to do with your life and 2) why you should strive for it.
Why and what are they?

Exactly.

No set of ideas is strong if it's belief requires fear of consequences.

I'd like all the Christians posting here to answer some questions:

Why would God punish someone who genuinely spends their life seeking the truth, and can't bring themselves to believe in Christianity because of objective stupidity and weakness of those ideas?

There is literally not enough time to explore all religions in the world in one lifetime. How could someone possibly find the truth? What about people born into other religions who KNOW that theirs is correct?

Why is there a complete and utter lack of evidence of miracles or spiritual intervention?

Why do religious leaders constantly become exposed as frauds?

If God loves us, why would he even consider an option such as hell, when most humans are arguably controlled by their animal urges and desires?

etc.

The afterlife isn't exclusive to Christianity.

Was raised as an atheist. Am now warming up to christianity in my late 20s. Every atheist I have ever known is a nihilist and as it turns out...are all pro pedophilia. Talk about a fall from grace. We need god or we fall into moral relativism and are shunned into silence, as we are seeing today. Fuck atheism.

well I guess you don't have any reason not to cut your wanker off now, so have at it.

>...but do you really believe it?
this is why Sup Forums has LARP-flags. notice how many religious offshoots there are. when the doctrine doesn't fit the consensus narrative, the dogma is changed. understanding this put religions in perspective. having said this, a man can move to a religion like Mormonism, have a high-quality non-roastie, a family, camaraderie, a career, stability, normalcy, etc...but he can't crack up laughing in church when the pastor makes an eye-rolling proclamation.

I love this post.
This sums up everything.
Back to r.ddit with you.

Read the post I responded to

Religion works like a genetic algorithm that naturally evolves with its followers, until it elegantly achieves maximum performance for that population. Commandments that are bad for the community are abandoned, and the ones that work get improved by reinterpretation.

Genetic algorithms solution work, but they cannot be proven why they work, or why that solution is best. That is why it is a faith based system. But it is a robust faith: faith in an algorithm that is known to produce good solutions, and faith in the test of time.

Genetic algorithms also find solutions that are best for one system (population), but that might not translate well into other systems (populations). That's why Christianism changed when it entered Greece, and took bastardized forms in other cultures.

Trying to engineer a religion manually does not work, because Genetic algorithms naturally optimize for unknown variables that nobody considered before. It is possible that a minor change can break one of those variables, resulting in a much worse religion overall.

That's also why selective breeding of dogs to improve some traits is resulting in dogs with health-hazards.

You don't like Christianism right now, because society has changed too fast, so the algorithm has yet to naturally adjust back to the current population.

However, it is a fatal mistake to ignore it completely, as its lessons have been refined by a scientifically-proven method to naturally and elegantly solve society's problems. Doing so it is a sure recipe for disaster and a failed society.

Communism is an engineered religion, and thus is a total disaster. That's why Communism doesn't work. However, it may work in a few thousands of years, after several rewritings and reformations.

Im the one who made it. You don't need religion to believe in an afterlife.

That's more a Judeo-Christian thing

I'll look into that, any hints on where to start? Any links or sources?

Elaborate

"God is not Great" was written by a "sort of jew", christopher hitchens.
he was obviously corrupted by his jewish parent's depraved mentality.
of course christianity is false. but anyone raised by jews is also depraved...
that's why chrisopher hitchens took an anti-gentile approach, instead of taking an anti-jew approach.
although i have to admit he has good taste...

is this a shill thread? or is Sup Forums really becoming this liberal already

Creationism makes a lot more sense than "we are the random product of a 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of innumerable variables all lining up"
Out of all the religions, Christianity makes the most sense (although I think the scriptures have been corrupted).
Yes, the church does attract a lot of vulnerable people. Just like the atheist collective attracts a lot of antagonistic pseudo-intellectuals.

The nature of faith means nobody knows one way or the other. Anyone that argues this topic in absolutes is an idiot.
Personally, I observe the world and make informed guesses based on my observations. I guess in favor of creationism.
I'll give you one of my many reasons to believe in favor of God:
Everything in the natural world has synergistic purpose. From the tiniest insect right through to Ocean tides and weather patterns. Humans are the one element that is outside of this perfect synergy. We are also the only element with self-awareness/creativity.
In my opinion this suggests that our "synergy" lies outside of the physical world and in the spiritual world. Our creativity is what separates us from the rest of the physical world and what links us with a creationist being. Which fits with various theological themes in various religions.

This is nothing to do with Liberalism, this is to do with logic.

I'm right wing, a traditionalist, and I try to be open minded. Looking for genuine answers from the community here.

While I disagree with Christianity and organised religion, I think people should be able to believe what they want. I also believe that the impact of Christianity on Western society is largely positive. While I think there could eventually be a better alternative, I don't think mankind is ready.

Not everything is shilling.

Literally "tide comes in, tide goes out - you can't explain that" tier, proving his point that you lot are retards

First good answer I've gotten from a religious person.

This
The Bible has likely been corrupted over the years (not necessarily due to malice) but trying to argue that "oh everything just happened to work out lmao" isn't convincing.

>Creationism makes a lot more sense than "we are the random product of a 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance of innumerable variables all lining up"
This argument never made any sense to me. You do realize how old the universe is right? With the passage of enough time, an event with an infinitely small probability will eventually happen.

Nothing wrong with Christianity. It has been shown time and time again that everything which is taking place today in modern society and its ill effects go directly against the teachings of Christianity - and what do you know? Christianity is right in its assertions and its moral template.

I don't believe in letting people do whatever they want anymore, it doesn't work.

>don't believe in a religion
>believe in reincarnation/being reborn

>he doesn't know how retarded pascal's wager is

Explain where YHWH came from idiot
>inb4 retarded "hurr he always existed" garbage
If god can come from nothing so can the universe. In fact there's more evidence then ever to suggest that pure nothingness is inherently unstable and will always create something eventually. Only reason we think it's impossible is because we have no idea what real nothingness looks like. Our idea of nothing is really just less of something, that's not nothing. Real nothingness means no space or time. Much more sensible answer then a wizard did it.

Christianity is taboo for a progressive society.

Exactly - Again, fear of the dark or lack of an answer makes people settle for either the answer they were raised with, or the answer that gives SOME kind of meaning to life.

I don't have answers, I don't know why we're here, but I'd rather be truthful with myself than spend what I believe is the one life we get, in ignorance.

youtu.be/MRiJSio7Yrw

Reincarnation != Afterlife
Reincarnation without a god is no different from believing in nothing.

youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis

>in ignorance

You are ignorant. We're all ignorant. You're not ever going to become all knowing or have the answers. Grow up you narcissist.

>Is it just because people with an inferiority complex need something which makes them feel superior to the 'commoners'?

pretty big part of it for sure. You also described another aspect of it when you mentioned how people have a 'void' that needs to be filled.

It's difficult for humans to think objectively about reality, which is complex beyond our understanding. It's much easier for us to assign everything that happens, good or bad, to some mythical entity called God. This gives us the sense that things have a 'purpose,' that there is a reason for everything. It's emotionally very difficult for people to accept that our lives may very well have no inherent purpose.

read the attached image here

How do you explain eternity to yourself?

We are all ignorant yet you believe you know the truth about humanity, you think you KNOW there is a god and you KNOW its the christian god and you KNOW you are blessed by following that particular herd. I think you're the narcissist, people who freely admit they do not know the ultimate answer to life are simply honest with their own conscience

THIS

I have literally said that I don't have all the answers, and that I don't claim to.

If someone walked up to you, a claimed a talking donkey just said "Hosanna in the highest", would you fall to your knees in praise or think the guy was fucking nuts? Be honest.

Many people consider 'I don't know,' to be an unacceptable answer. In science, of course, it is acceptable- but many religious people argue that this is a weakness of science. They say, 'my story provides the answer,' even though their story has no proof; it's just a story. To them, any answer is better than 'I don't know.'

My point has nothing to do with Pascal's Wager, and if you're incapable of inferring that then you're the only retard here.

>I was raised a christian, when I reached a certain age I realised the stupidity and absurdity of it and started my slow transition into a non-believer.
After learning how all Christians support the racist zionist state of isreal i stopped being christian.
youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8yHnAcZCw

I'm not sure I can explain it to myself in a way that would envoke its true magnitude and scale. Why do you ask? When you don't understand something do you think that's a rational point in which to envoke your own particular brand of religion? I cannot comprehend infinity therefore jesus was the son of god and i must obey the ten commandments?

>everyone who believes in religion is really insecure and sux
>wtf why arent these people being reasonable
Refute pic related nigger.

Do you think the past can change? If you think it cannot, and can visualize it being "stored somewhere" that is not physical (therefore has no beginning nor end), then that would be eternity for you.

You literally said that you think the odds are that someThing was responsible for the creation of the universe and that that's where you're placing your bet. You need to read your own post and look up pascal's wager. Science has not discovered a 'creational story' so you choose to believe the christian one. God of the gaps.

I'm agnostic with heavy sympathy towards Christianity because its been objectively a force for strength and solace in the Western World, even if it is not the factual truth it gives a meta truth which makes a narrative to bind a culture together.
That said, you should read this OP, or any of the other letters here. Because Dawkins has far fallen as a credible source to cite.
bethinking.org/atheism/the-dawkins-letters/6-almost-certainly-a-god

Granted he never commits a Harris-tier fuckup like the absolutely retarded Red State Blue State argument, in which the basic rules of statistics are ignored to force a narrative. But its still pretty bad when Dawkins dismisses thousands of years of theological discussion from both secularists and believers as having no discernible value because from the outset he claims it fiction.

> When you don't understand something do you think that's a rational point in which to envoke your own particular brand of religion?
No I don't.

> I cannot comprehend infinity therefore jesus was the son of god and i must obey the ten commandments?
I didn't say that, but I find interesting how one's inclination to make unfounded assumptions tells a lot about how one thinks.

serpent's words

It is because dumbasses like yourself thought christianity wasn't a medicine for the masses, something to keep them allied together.

And here you sit, atop a throne of 'logic & reason' while your civilization crumbles away and falls to another faith whose denizens don't much care for logic and reason.

It is because christianity, regardless of the 'pagan' posters, is what brought you to the forefront of humanity.

We only lost christianity within the last 40-60 years.

Really think about that.

I understand the atheism argument. I really do. I used to be an atheist. Then I realized, I was the retarded one. I was the one denying myself spirituality, a subjective, necessary thing in all lives.

You have chosen to forgo your fathers and suckle at the teat of the jewess who would much rather see you disorganized and faithless than organized and faithful. At the end of the day, atheism may be the logical route, but we don't and will never live as a logical species. You are the growing minority it is true. But when you start importing 3rd worlders you will quickly see your edgy meme has no place in a nation that is dedicated to its self preservation.

i believe ayys seeded this world. where the ayys came from i dont know and no one ever will know.
where we go after death, if anywhere, is the real question imo

Atheism is actually decreasing as a demographic in the face of Islamic and Third World population booms.

Go ahead, make an argument then. I was merely thinking aloud.

Read my posts. Already addressed this. I'll repeat, I'd rather have Christianity than Islam or Judaism.

Read this It'll make you believe.

Only because I used the word "bet" doesn't mean I "betting" according to Pascal's Wager's definition. First make some effort to try to understand what I'm trying to say before precipitate yourself to a conclusion.

Good argument bro, what's your iq? Keep thinking the way your pastor tells you to, good boy

I'm reading it, and it is pretty interesting.
Astounding how a piece of cloth seems to defy science at every turn except for the obvious but unbelievable answer.

Hey OP, if a Christian said to you that you were stupid and that he commanded you on no authority to explain Western philosophy to him, would you stop being atheist? No? Think about what I have said. Let it sink in.

First, please dude i know there's a 99% chance this is bait but if its not dont write like that, it makes you look extremely pretentious.
You can express an indea without sounding like that.

>Why is there so much Christian shilling here?
We understand that western civilization had extreme influences in Christianity and its teachings/traditions.
Without it western civ couldnt have ever existed, it is essential for it.
You don't necessarily have to be religious to know this, but it helps the society at large to conserve certain parts of it.
Even many atheists figures know this and have openly said it.

Well of course the reason that they are there is for traditional reasons. They're keeping the tradition of having meaning to life, that's why any faith exists

People here support Christian values, not necessarily Christianity as a whole. Christian values is what made the west great. Jews are promoting atheism as a way to destabilize western life.

They want no morals, no self-respect and no judgement.

Its because we have a bunch of children and non-whites. I mean look at this argument here then you have this weird shit its very /x/ tier. This is mainly nu/pol/ a lot of christians from reddo and cripplechan have organized raids to proselytize to the board. Its extremely annoying.

Look at how many of the sources there are from shroud.com, 'the shroud of turin website.' Other sources are newgeology.us, a creationist website, and sindone.info, another religious site. So all of the info in that post is from sources with a vested interest in the shroud being authentic.

The whole thing falls apart if the first statement is false- that the 1988 tests used a portion of the shroud repaired in the middle ages, and that's why they arrived at the wrong date. The source cited for this is one paper by Dr. Ray Rogers. The paper you describe is not conclusive, its results are heavily contested by other scientists who worked on the shroud.

All religion must be absolved. All its perpetuating is a never ending crusades.

They won't answer or give some long bullshit answer that just reaffirms themselves. Here is a image that I've had for a fucking long time I got on Sup Forums and its fucking perfect.

>Without it western civ couldnt have ever existed, it is essential for it.
Thats fucking bullshit pagans built civilization. Rome conquered all over. It wasn't Christianity it was fucking WHITE people. The same outcome would have happened if it was fucking Islam.

Believe it or not, it isn't bait. But I see your point, didn't mean to be insulting.

>Christian values is what made the west great
>When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. (Leviticus 19:33-34)
>Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt. (Exodus 23:9)
>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

Rome ate itself.
>inb4 you blame Christianity for Romes fall
The British Empire alone with the Age of Empires was European strength at its most uncontested.

Guess what was the dominant religion?

So true. So far you're the only person who has even addressed that post.

This

I went to church today for the first time in 20 years. I kinda feel the same way OP does. And honestly, I don't know how can a combine my racism and my desire with european ethnostates with a religion whose members are mostly brown and black and that preaches forgiveness and universal love.

I want to believe but I don't know if I can.

...

I already do blame Christianity for romes fall fuckhead.

>Guess what was the dominant religion?
Once they had control over it they continued letting jews in and then throwing them out for there own protection time and time again they'd let them back in. The kings and pope controlled who got to see the bible and interpreted the way they wanted it to control people. Now that anyone can read the bible we have what we have no because of it.

It all relates to how you think whites are inherently evil and inherently retarded because without Christianity you think that all whites would be dead or living in mud huts like niggers in Africa. You are one of the major reasons I left the church because everyone including my mother has had to go through literal fucking hell and its always attributed to jebus when no it wasn't jesus it was her own human white will power to over come. Christianity is for the weak.