So, it's been pretty well established that the answer to "Can Shiki kill servants" is "technically, but he won't ever get the chance"
But I propose a brand new angle on this old pointless question
Can Shiki WORKING WITH SHIROU kill servants?
Thinking about it, it seems like they cover each-others weakness against servants pretty well. Shirou uses the bag of tricks and his overall much higher effective range via traced weapons to provide cover for Shiki, who can then get up close to stab their lines (a level of pure power that Shirou couldn't possibly reach)
Except for the part where they would probably never want to work together, I think it's a pretty solid theory.
Luis Evans
Shirou can already kill servants by himself.
Adrian Johnson
But can accelerator kill servants
Sebastian Martinez
Only with a bullshit list of situational powerups and other plot conveniences
If you're going down that road then we can argue stuff like "shiki could take down arcueid into 17 pieces in one second when he's literally half dead, has zero training and as his very first kill with his eyes, so if he actually worked on his assasin shit he could take down servants to" but then you're just being a dickhead about an already dickhead question
Ian Adams
No because he's a character from a series that's somehow even worse about bullshit resolutions to fight scenes than fate is
James Sullivan
Why do you need Shirou though? Shiki can kill servants. Discuss.
Christopher Adams
Shiki can already kill servants. Shirou can already kill servants. If they worked together, I'm pretty sure they would continue to be able to kill servants.
Gabriel Evans
What's this one from? Melty Blood?
Julian Cook
But can Ciel kill Servants? Like, real ones, not fake ones like Avenger.
Jack Ortiz
Better yet just have shiki summon best servant with his big ass magic circuts and freeze everyone in place for double mystic eyes combi
Camden Reyes
>Fate Thread
Why?
Zachary Perry
Ciel is pretty much a weaker version of Kotomine so no.
Sebastian Harris
Can CASTER BUFFED KOTOMINE KIREI kill servants?
Jaxon Walker
Tentatively yes, but only if she had Nanako backing her up.
Xavier Murphy
Because Sup Forums likes shitty fiction.
Jordan James
Horses aren't people
Chase Diaz
Yeah, from the manga. It was a nod to a future story about Shiki and Arc.
James Fisher
Satsujinki or something, right?
Levi Adams
...
Levi Morales
Can Shirou kill Dead Apostles?
Ryder James
Probably.
Brayden Sanders
The fuck is this?
Benjamin Diaz
Can Shiki kill Demonbane?
Mason Roberts
The only Kotomine that can even beat Ciel is Zero Kotomine with multiple CS as his disposal.
Elijah Lopez
Can Shiki kill Dumbledore?
Ian Bennett
Both of them could beat 3rd Grail War Avenger.
Isaac Gomez
The best Fate anime to date.
Kevin Thompson
>implying Avenger might be shit overall, but he excels at killing humans.
Chase Harris
>See pic >Laugh instinctively I don't even need to watch Carnival Phantasm, just remembering it puts a smile on my face. It's so good.
Owen Morales
They can't even plan to date their harems, let alone plan to kill servants.
Juan King
speaking about tsukihime manga, I recently read through the one based on the original game but all the extra stuff in the last volume was just untranslated
It was a download link I got from Sup Forums, is this stuff just unfinished?
Nolan Miller
Shirou killed servants solo before, so obviously he can with a teammate.
Juan Rivera
Pretty sure that's just him being able to kill them in large numbers. Cause of his demon dogs running around town.
Hudson White
>implying Shiki won't just hold Shioru down by being another sack of meat he has to protect
Blake Flores
Why was Carnival Phantasm so much better than the actual source material?
Matthew King
Because it's an entirely different genre, and you probably are much more interested in comedy than fantasy/action.
Nathaniel Hill
The real question here is: Can YOU defeat Angra Mainyu?
I mean, he's the fucking weakest, I bet at least you can kill that piece of shit, right?
Jeremiah Cook
Genuine question would the two of them become friends if they met?
Parker Long
I feel like they'd piss eachother off
Asher Campbell
Sure, why not
Caleb Hughes
Considering his specialty is killing regular humans like me, I probably would lose badly.
Blake Cook
We had Carnival Phantasm to answer that question.
Jack Evans
Here's something that needs clearing up: If Rider uses Cybele on someone with high MAG their abilities go down 1 rank. Is that only for personal/class skills or does it apply to their main stats as well, like a reverse Arondight?. The in-game text flip flops on this.
David Nguyen
Shirou is the kind of guy who can be anyone's friend as long as they're not a cunt.
Jaxson Garcia
Daily reminder that Melty Blood is superior to Fate.
Julian Wood
Which is why Shiki can't be friends with him
Nathan Reyes
I dunno if a gag series really counts as "canon", for how little that matters to type moon
shiki is a rapist and a murderer though, he's basically shinji but with redeeming qualities and better excuses for his insanity fits
Elijah Reyes
I find that hard to believe. Aptitude/skill/Shiki-level speed aside, they should simply be incapable of actually harming Servants like that. When Assassin got nailed to a tree by Black Keys, he was never hurt.
Connor Collins
Wrong, Shirou can be friends with anyone even with cunts, that's why he's Shinji's friend.
Jack Martinez
He's basically Shirou right ? So it all comes down to beating a guy that's shorter, lighter and trains as much as you. assuming he doesnt use magic
Ryder Sanders
>Shiki can kill servants >can Shiki WITH EXTRA HELP kill servants? Great thread, OP. Real hard question.
John Morris
A better question is what the fuck does the MAG stat actually do when every servant just has unlimited energy unless they don't
Asher Gomez
If Archer went back in time to destroy Avenger's catalyst before the start of the Third Grail war, would that prevent the corruption of the grail or does Avenger now exist everywhere along the timeline as the core of the Grail?
Oliver Thompson
It's their max MP stat. Think like in FFIV where Tellah had 90 MP but Meteor cost 99 so the stress killed him when he used it. Difference is everyone except Saber could regen over time. Pretty simple, really.
Lucas Walker
Theoretically it might work but Ayala really fucking hates paradoxes and would probably forbid it from happening.
Samuel Ward
I get the concept of it, but situations like that never really come up because like you said everyone but saber can just regenerate (and saber is just so she doesn't auto win every fight)
one of my big problems with fate is that it has the silly rpg stats that sound stupid as hell, only they don't actually go into any detail about them and more or less constantly ignore the stats so shirou can manhandle gilgamesh somehow even though he's apparently like 100 times stronger than a regular human according to his rpg stats
Christopher White
Considering all the parallel time bullshit in the type-moon universe (I seriously hate time travel in any and all plots, it ruins everything) it might help that timeline but none of the others.
Henry Hughes
I'm tired of this question.
I have a better one. Can the gland work on Servants?
Caleb Turner
Of course it can, what kind of stupid question is that?
It works on goddamned archetype earth. If we ever get a tohnno assassin in grand order his NP will be glanding enemies into not wanting to fight anymore
Nolan Thompson
Shirou can only cover those weaknesses for a short amount of time. Unless he has UBW up, then he's stuck in short range. Anything that isn't a sword costs extra for him trace, so a bow or any other long range weapons would be out of the question without outside prana support, like what he had from Rin in the UBW route. Unless they can kill a servant in the short amount of time that UBW is active, then they're fucked. Servants are just simply too above human levels of physical and magical performance. It's noted that UBW spam is only a mere annoyance to a servant who has mastered their own weapon. They'd just dodge or deflect until the spam ends. Only a servant like an assassin or caster would likely have trouble, other classes works would probably outlast them both.
Isaac Rodriguez
>Tohno gland >FGO
Now I wanna see Tohno giving the gland to Sichelgaita and Jeanne. At the same time.
Jayden Peterson
doesn't shiki actually have a whole ton of parana, which is how he managed to make a contract with len?
Sebastian Lee
If Shiki and Shirou were to team up, and they fought a Servant Shirou could somehow hold back, having Shiki try to kill it would be a terrible idea, since it would put too much of a strain on his brain.
If anything, people tend to forget Shiki isn't a 1-on-1 fighter (unlike Ryougi), he's an assassin. It would be a much better idea to have him seek the Servant's Master and kill him.
Carson King
It's not that Assassin wasn't hurt, the damage was just negligible. As long as the two spiritual cores are unharmed a Servant can take anything less than getting chopped in half in a stride (provided the damage can be healed and doesn't directly attack the soul or have some curse applied). With better weapons and strikes to either the head or heart, Kirei and Kiritsugu could technically kill Servants
Kevin Hernandez
Can Shiki kill servants?
And I'm not talking about Nanaya Shiki, now am I talking about Satsujinki.
I'm talking about Nanaya Shiki who's had years to practice his skills and make use of his eyes, has had the lifeforce stolen from him by SHIKI returned, has been turned into a Dead Apostle by Arcueid AND Sacchin at the same time, has made a contract with Len, has borrowed the Etherlite after being trained in their use, been taught magecraft after going over the memories of Roa both him and Ciel have, has the backup of Akiha the strongest of the half demons and someone that can steal someones life or abilities with a literal glance and just raped both of the maids for the last 24 hours straight to synchronize.
Cooper Hall
>Shinji >cunt Fuck off.
Samuel Russell
>Shiki try to kill it would be a terrible idea, since it would put too much of a strain on his brain.
Would it? If shiki can understand the concept of relatively powerful arcueid's death just fine for his very first use of his eyes without blacking out once, would a servant really be that far off if he just has to stab them and nothing else?
Brandon Cox
>If anything, people tend to forget Shiki isn't a 1-on-1 fighter (unlike Ryougi), he's an assassin. Isn't that what OP is saying? Having Shirou make the big flashy enterance with his traced swords while shiki sneaks behind them?
Jaxon Lewis
Kirei never had the extra command spells in the VN, right?
Leo Flores
Yeah
Christian Ross
Since they added them in the UBW anime, I'm worried they will the HF movies too. That's create the problem of Kirei no longer not having the means to kill a servant.
Aaron Howard
Not him, but I agree the stat idea was really stupid and pointless.
Julian Walker
They'll just ignore it I doubt they'll make such a drastic change of having him kill assassin.
Gabriel Reyes
I haven't watched it yet. What did they change?
Andrew Sullivan
Kirei had a bunch of extra CSs, that's all. They didn't change anything in the story but they did prompt secondaries to go full frodo with why Kirei didn't use those CSs to continue controlling Lancer rather than have him suicide.
Dominic Morales
Answers to these are no. Only things with mana/magic can damage a servant. A butter knife infused with mana can hurt a servant, a nuclear bomb cannot.
Read the VN
Jace Morgan
Didnt he use those in sakura?
Brandon Butler
I thought he did, since he's the mediator of the 5th HGW. And I remember him saying he wasted his "magical crest" when he saved Sakura in HF, I thought he was just lying and used his Command Spells.
Michael Anderson
Not that I recall.
Joseph Torres
But can any of them kill Madara Uchiha?
Logan Kelly
>beat the shit out of Angra >he Verg Avesta me >he was only pretending to be retarded
Sebastian Hill
No, you're right, stats don't matter 99% of the time. I was just explaining what MAG did. Like can you name a single instance where MAG affected a fight/decision? No, it's just there for for who does and doesn't get petrified. Or stuff like Rider and Assassin having the same B-C-A physical stats yet Rider BFTOing him unarmed. Or even NP ranks being completely meaningless (ex:Gae Bolg and Gae Dearg/Buidhe being the same rank somehow). It's one of the bigger blights on the series, really.
Brayden Hughes
>The next TM project has a JAM Project OP
How fucking hype will you be?
Xavier Myers
Shiki can but he couldnt get the hit.
Just use the whole pasta as the other guy
Camden Ross
Well servants stats and np are different.
Hudson Mitchell
This is from Unlimited Codes
Charles Nelson
>I thought he was just lying and used his Command Spells. Didn't think about it. That makes sense.
Jason Gomez
And we have this from, I don't remember from where it is, but there you go.
Elijah Green
While stats on their own are not all that useful I find that comparatively between servants they do in fact give a good summary of how they all compare. It's also an easy way to show how a servant becomes stronger due to mana source, like Saber between Shirou and Rin.
Jose Turner
Huh, then is probably right.
Dominic Cooper
Anyone wanna clue in on this one? I'm actually really curious, I hadn't thought about shiki's contract with len meaning he probably has the potential to be a magus
Jayden Perez
Didn't Kuzuki have a seal as Caster's Master?
Brody Carter
The comedy of Carnival was so fucking high that I thought I was watching UBW with drugs. lol
Adrian Cooper
He has the potential, but that would require him to actually train in it. He lacks a magic crest, which is what Rin used to give support to Shirou. He can't make the same connection to Shirou that Rin did.
Jason Thomas
No one knows?
Kevin Roberts
What would happen if a servant was dropped into lava?
Would he casually swim in it?
Nathan Cox
Missed your post. Yes, Cybele lowers stat scores as well as abilities.
Hudson Roberts
The wiki says this.
>Kuzuki is the Master of Caster, but he is not a magus nor does he have Magic Circuits or Command Spells. He only acts as her anchor to the world, while she must subside off of the magical energy taken from the leylines and the town in order to upkeep her existence. His sperm was still capable of stabilizing her enough to establish their contract after she was brought within Ryuudou Temple’s Barrier.
Benjamin Gonzalez
Depends on the servant I guess. It'd probably melt their bodies but not touch their spirits, so they'd either need to stay in spirit form or keep pumping prana to repair their bodies.