Japanese bloggers explain appeal of shitty reincarnation/transportation LNs

>The Japanese fandom is like the English fandom in the sense that the majority of internet commentary about this trend is snarky and negative, but a significant number of people are hooked on these stories nevertheless.

>the blogger Umetsubame claims that others look down on narou stories because they think that people should work hard in order to succeed. Yet in real life, lots of people try hard but fail to succeed, while others do nothing and succeed anyway. At this point, Nobuo Kawakami, the Representative Director of Dwango, chimes in to say: “In fact, the idea that if you try hard you will (definitely) succeed is more of a fantasy.”

>If it’s taken as a given that people cheat their way to the top in society, then in order for a narou protagonist to succeed, he needs to be placed into a world where his own particular skills can be used as cheats. It’s no surprise, then, that the vast majority of isekai stories are based on JRPG-inspired worlds, particularly the pseudo-medieval settings of the Dragon Quest series and the early Final Fantasy games.

>the underlying assumption that only people who know how to cheat the system can succeed. Umetsubame explained this cynicism is a result of the current social climate. Japan is past its economic bubble, there is no job security for young people, and in order to get hired you need to bury your individuality. Instead of pathologising narou fans, he points to society’s arbitrary standards of success as the underlying problem. You can work and work and work, but still be laid off your job. Narou stories function not only as escapist fiction, but also as an affirmation of this particular worldview.

>Kawakami points to the manga Ressentiment as a literary-style work that presents a harsh truth for otaku. Ironically, otaku don’t support it because “nobody wants to know the truth

frogkun.com/2016/05/05/whats-the-appeal-of-those-stuck-in-another-world-fantasies-some-japanese-bloggers-explain/

If only the Japanese stopped paying money for the shit they are tired of

Casuals will spend their money on whatever trash they like.

too bad it's still shit though

I thought the problem was that they all devolved into haremshit

I never really minded the genre as a whole, only that it's fucking everywhere and most iterations don't put a lot of effort into it. There are some gems in that genre though, and this explanation is actually pretty solid. I understand the desire for something more grounded after the "JUST WORK HARD LOL" shonen boom of a decade ago.

No wonder Naruto turned out to be Ninja Jesus. People hate hard work.

>People hate hard work.
Who doesn't?
As some old duck with a huge money bin once allegedly said, you ought to work smarter, not harder.

I don't have a problem with hard work.
Actually i like hard work.
The problem is just that working hard gets you nowhere.

Picaresque Stories existed since the 15th century, and they were much more nuanced than simple "I'm level 100 you can't do shit."

Transportation to a fantasy world stories is not a Japanese-exclusive phenomenon.

Except it's a shitty excuse

Just as it's hard to work your way to the top, it's hard to cheat your way to the top too

The heroes of these "trapped in another world" stories rarely if ever think of a clever plan to win, they usually just are born with a hax skill that gives them power.

Like, OP's picture, "Shield Hero" - the protag of that story is so powerful because he's the only one who read the instruction manual.

No, really.

I'm all for cheating, but it should be good logical cheating. Douglas Adams says no one works harder than someone trying to avoid work.

Nor new.

I'm just starting to get into the genre but I actually enjoy it to some extent. Back when I was new to anime I watched high school settings because I longed for a reality where school was a haven filled with interesting people and had a joyous group of friends.

Now that I'm a working adult, I long for a reality where I can do shit on my own terms, and winning or losing are a direct result of my actions with the option to fail still being present. That's what this shit provides for me. In Konosuba the mc eats shit for a good portion of the story despite his efforts, but he wins due to his drive. The series never takes losing out of the equation and it's better for it.
Also hail Aqua.

Alice isn't as good a fit as Narnia since she doesn't become a hero, she just stumbles around a bunch of absurdities before going home.

>The problem is just that working hard gets you nowhere.
You see this problem a lot in America too. Americans are probably the biggest believers in the "Hard work = Success" ideology, and it's becoming increasingly evident to every one that is not the case. I actually think this is part of the reason the Trump is so popular currently, tons of Americans are working hard and doing things the way they're suppose to, but not getting the end results they want, which is creating resentment in the system.

In short: Make efforts, Get talents.

Too real for me.

That came out over a decade ago?

Which is weird, since Trump openly admits that he himself is no more skilled or hard working, he just was born into a rich family to begin with.

People, as usual, just want to get tricked into something they don't really believe.

Like religion.

>people like vidya
>grow up to be adults
>write books about what they like
>it's popular since readers are the same base
>also waifus
>more people do it since it's easy cash as long as the waifu is nice and story holds up

wooow

alternative explanation
>feel so shitty you empathise with "die and wake up in a better world"

Reading Taekwondo manwha:
Protag trains really really really hard to get to entry level super human
Protag then stops progressing and needs to train more effective/smarter/work on his flaws in order to go towards a superior superhuman

80s manga and some seinen is about some dude who is very strong, and need to fight others on his level.
Shounen has generally been about somebody who is entry level, in a sea of beginners, who progresses ahead of everyone.
Japan don't like hard work or smart work now. Shame. Its cool

People want to live in a fantasy. Too bad this is reality.

This, in reality cheating itself require a different kind of hardwork that happen behind the scene and most people never see that, not to mention the severe punishment when the act of cheating backfire on yourself.

Agreed. You have to have some sort of wit if you want to make any significant progress. That's with anything.

It's like grinding in a jrpg but without any sort of aim in mind.

>now
Fuck are you talking about? Stop making broad ass generalizations faggot.

Ugh, gag me. I can feel the smug leaking through my screen.

You aren't living your life correctly, user. Fix it.

>Just as it's hard to work your way to the top, it's hard to cheat your way to the top too
I think the (pessimistic) idea behind it isn't per se about hard work (though not that people who cheat the system don't work hard), but that it's a lot about such things as inherrent talent, who you know, where you studied etc. This is why the losers come out ahead in "trapped in MMORPG" anime: they've played those games their entire lives. When they start out at level 1, just like everyone else, they already have an "unfair" advantage. I know it's not a popular show 'round these here parts, but the Kirito had such an advantage in SAO because he was a beta tester. Momonga had an advantage in Overlord because by the time the world started "living", he had already spent years grinding his character to perfection.

It's a way to at the same time have the protagonist be an identifiable loser AND give him an unfair advantage. If your example of Shield Hero is true, then that's just a retarded story though. Unless it's a comedy show.

The difference is that these stories in the West are more for exploring fantastic new worlds and perhaps grow wiser from the experience and stuff. And they're really rarely about being reincarnated with ultrasuperhaXXorpowers that makes everything easier for the protagonist.

But now that I think about it, John Carter of Mars might fit that model more. You have an old confederate dude being transported to Mars, where it turns out that he is superstrong because of Earth's higher gravity, he gets to become pal with funky four-armed big green martians, fucks the hottest red martian princess around who will stay really really hot for several hundreds of years, everyone is practically nekkid and well-endowed, and all his opponents are kinda dumb or hindered by silly traditions that greatly limit their effective battle strength despite having powerful guns and laser cannons and flying airships.

This.

I don't like these novels not because the hero doesn't "work hard", but because the hero doesn't "work smart" either.

It's pure wish fulfillment. It's not an indictment of society. Discontent can explain the demand for these LNs, but don't go and say they're making any meaningful statements

I mean, sure. Inherent talent is a thing. It's not the only thing. And even in something you're talented in, you still need to work.

>all the Japanese webnovels are about being reincarnated into another world where your skills let you cheat to win, and this means Japanese society sucks and you can only get ahead by cheating

So what does it say about the Chinese that all the Chinese webnovels are xianxia shit about energy cultivation in caves with magic pills for decades to train themselves into immortality by sitting crosslegged and doing nothing, where all disagreements are solved with a fight to the death which is really easy to get into because everyone is an asshole to each other?

People who don't want to work hard make excuses like talent and other bullshit. It's all bullshit. You have to work if you want to make it. It's hard and everyone who made has done it. But those people want to be praised for doing nothing. They want to stay in their comfort zone. They are stupid people and they are helpless.

That hit me right in the feel sack.

Imagine you are an aspiring author. Slaving away to make that book and hope it will make you great. Meanwhile some 15 year old shit plays videogames and makes millions. Spends it like a nigger with a 50 dollar bill at a KFC place, while try to make ends meet.

It makes me envious.

You're free to think that way, but that's probably why you can't appreciate the genre. It presupposes a certain kind of helplessness, it presupposes factors of great impact you cannot control, both internal (talent/genetics) and external (connections and opportunities).

That's actually a thing? It sounds fun to read.

I like Jonathan and Joseph because they both represent both sides of the spectrum. One's a freight train of a man that worked to study hamon, and the others a cheater that uses his resources and abilities to get by.

>all
Fucking check your numbers faggot.

>Complain about garbage
>Buy and support the garbage

Cheating your way to the top isn't hard, just gotta be willing to get dicked down by a few superiors in your field.

I spent three years writing a thousand plus page manuscript that two people read.

Feels bad man. But supply and demand is a bitch

>Meanwhile some 15 year old shit plays videogames and makes millions.
Streamers piss me off so much.

Hard work = Talent
People are lazy fucks
It takes grit and wisdom to go beyond what you think is possible

I thought because the author didn't know how to write him interesting anymore.

You would know that's not true in Shield Hero as every other hero reads it later.

>That's actually a thing? It sounds fun to read.
It really isn't when that's all there is to it

What about Peter Pan?

Hard work is boring. Magic bullshit isn't. Sure, it kind of takes away the whole underdog aspect, but on the other hand, it makes money and gets readers.

Maybe it just sucks. You ever think that?

Being a woman is the real easy mode.

I think Kirito, Kazuma, and Subaru are making efforts "manly"
才能と努力が必要ってこと

God damn, good post.

>tfw i play video games but have a shit connection so i can never be a famous and rich streamer/youtuber

streamers piss me off too, more for the fact that they have a better internet set up but play on prebuilt overpriced potatoes-to-be-in-a-few-months and only a few are actually competent at what they do instead of hype train-ing for the littlest shit that happens in game.

>no specific examples
Just speaking out of your ass huh?

I can't appreciate the genre because it's just not true.

Well - more accurately - it's only half true.

Everyone is born with strengths and weaknesses, and some tend to get the short end of the stick more than others. But there's a niche for everyone - it's just a matter if they're smart enough to find it.

In any case, even if there is no free will, and your life is set in stone from birth - creating a story that simply "flips the script" is both boring and juvenile.

You mentioned Kirito, right?

Him being better at Dungeons because of being a beta tester I get.

Him getting a super unique skill in an MMO of all things? That's where the blatant wish fulfillment comes in and ruins the story

Kind of like Kino but without the going home bit.

Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

You shouldn't forget about luck either. There's definitely something to be said about being in the right place at the right time.

You could do it if you put the effort in. I'm not saying you should, but feel good just knowing that.

It means Chinese people are wanna-be druggies and miss their Opium and other illegal drugs considering the fucking magic steroids and pills their protagonists consume.

Holy shit. You make me laugh, you fucking loser. They worked hard for that shit.

>Wanting to be successful.
That sounds like such a drag.

I hate to cite onii sama of all things, but this theory, while convenient, is painfully wrong. People who don't succeed have always been jealous of those who do. If someone thinks they have worked hard, they cannot acknowledge that they have done any wrong. If you do everything right, people will think you're just gifted or some shit. So rather than an escape from a bleak reality, I think these types of settings are nothing more than power wanking, which is exactly what most people here know. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't pass it off as some diagnosis of a society we don't live in.

Nah, it was good. I just need to make something that'll sell next time.

I really like the genre. Maybe it's because I'm miserable in reality and would love to be an adventurer or hero in a fantasy world. I'd find love, success, and glory. Instead I get to shitpost on Sup Forums for over a decade.

White people on youtube are the only people that make video game streamers famous.

There aren't any famous video game streamers in Japan that make as much money as PewdiePie

Hah, fucking luck fags. Just get out.

They fucking don't. Maybe the ones that aren't super popular,but pewdipie tier streamers are just fucking lucky.

>the Men from Jupiter were the Shitpudding half of John Carter where, after he's become King of Mars and shit, suddenly some new EVEN STRONGER enemies show up

FUCKING JUPITER
>and then Carter Napier shows up on a spaceship full of hot amazon bitches who live in the secret gardens of Venus

ITT:Bitch niggas hating on people doing things and being successful

>comparing to outlier Pewdiepie

Closest thing they have is Arino and Yukuris, but those don't count.

worked hard?

>"can i get a hype train in chat bois?"

>"lets fucking go bois!"

>"hit that subscribe button i'll suck your dick for 2 seconds when i shout out to you in stream!"

>"waah i'll scream like a bitch for views!"

what other "hard-working streamer" trope have i missed?

What are you talking about?

Of course not. PewDiePie became famous because YouTube was showing his videos to three-five different countries. Streamers in Japan would only show up on Japanese YouTube and even then the language is too hard to promote across countries.

This, fucking disgusting. You can only help yourself.

Japan's real issue is that they will not let go of tradition and move forward like the rest of the world. The consequences for that will be huge.

Gamergurrls with their tits taking up half the screen and men pretending to be women with voice changers.

People with thousands of viewers honestly aren't enviable. Chat interaction is a fucking joke, you're super delayed because everyone has to use Twitch to make any money, and to maintain that kind of popularity means you have to be vaguely entertaining for 5+ hours a day, most days a week.

It's a more gruelling job than most radio presenters or actors have, you don't even get a script.

I get that people see streamers as some guy "just" playing games, but it's a job I'd never want. E-sports is even worse, I can't imagine the kind of autism required to play the same game, day in, day out, in the name of practice.

Tell that to literally every fucking country, user.

You seem triggered. Think about what really makes them successful. It might be what you're missing.

that's it i've found the perfect scheme:

>zoom in on a loop of gamergirl tits as they jiggle from time to time

>modify voice with screaming bee

>have tits take up the entire screen, put the game footage where the webcam would be

I've just done it guys, instant millionaire.

Where is luck? Where is your name? Where is your daddies network? Where is numerous other factors?

You could be born as a nigger in Biafra. If you are lucky, you reach adulthood.

Hard work does not equal success, smart work does not equal success. It is you who were at the right place at the right time.

Success is luck.

>people who barely watch twitch
What streamer has made it by doing that?

But it was hard work. Doesnt hard work bring success?

Are you mad that a 15 year old was able to capitalise on a market way before you thought about it?

Maybe if you were smart you could have been in on time too.

So you're just going to sit around for "luck" to happen?

It says that chinese people are self centered assholes who built a culture of condescension and service based around social hierarchy,being miserable and spending your whole life in stoic hard work to raise your status, just so you can now be the condescending self serving asshole enforcing said cultural standards.

I still hope that one day within the next decade, I win the grand lottery in my country and get lots of cash for just putting the right numbers.

people are not doing what they are supposed to, people are fucking retarded at managing their finances and making smart financial decisions, so they don't get into an excessive amount of debt. Then they have the audacity to complain about not having enough money for things when they just bought a brand new Titan and had it lifted.

I heard sociopathy helps success.

This is why original ending > time to shit on my ungrateful reader's heads ending will always be superior.

No. It's a thing to help you succeed. There are no guarantees in life, faggot. Everyone lied to you. You may also have to work smart, all that matters is as long as you are good at what you do and are an egotistic faggot, you'll make it.

>That manga
>Seemed decent for the first few chapters until the daughterfu gets aged up so the MC can lust after her in peace
>Similiar thing happens to a bird later on
Dropped it and never looked back.

This is why education is important.

Writing interesting characters requires hard work.

Fuck off. These shits don't work hard at all. It is not like they cultivated their body to achieve something great like in sports.

Mom and dad buy them their rigs. They plug a game. Scream in the microphone for 30min and upload that shit.

I don't know if I hate streamers more or the fanbase watching it. Only things I wished that were genocided more today are vloggers.

Interesting theory, though it may just be reading too much into the appeal of a magical world with a fresh start, and authors jumping on a trend.

I was reminded that in SAO, part of the world's appeal was the simplified mechanics making "work hard and you'll succeed" truer than life.

>In this world, a single blade can take you anywhere you want to go. And even though it's a virtual world, I feel more alive in here than I ever did in the real one.

If you truly believe that's all it takes, why do you consider yourself a failure?

I wish there was an anime of that.

I'm flipping these burgers super hard,but i'm still a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. What went wrong?