I noticed Paul Joseph Watson's videos on depression (which I personally agree with) have gotten a backlash from some of his viewers.
I think he's right.
Yeah, people get depressed, but we ALL get depressed - LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYBODY. It's a fact of the human condition. "Oh but my depression is worse than yours" - well, fucking deal with it. As much as you may not think it, I'm sure there are people who are bigger losers than you are, with bigger problems, and fewer prospects.
People say "it's brain chemicals" - SO IS EVERY OTHER EMOTION AND STATE OF MIND THAT WE FEEL. Excitement? That's adrenaline. Aggression? That's testosterone. Love? That's oxytocin. Feeling of success? That's dopamine.
I think our understanding of "mental health" will evolve over time, like our understanding always evolves. And I think people will come to realise that just throwing antidepressants at people is fucking stupid. People get depressed because of how they live their lives. To treat depressed people as medically wrong is to dehumanise their emotions, which probably have very legitimate causes.
I know it's a touchy subject with many people, but like I say, I think PJW is right.
Yes, there are people who have gone through worse things than I have. More severe bullying. A worse home life growing up. Poverty, abuse, molestation, etc.
But I don't think the answer is antidepressants. I think the answer should lie in things that acknowledge people's humanity.
Joseph Bell
You can't be Finnish in most countries, and it can be tough for some people to pretend everything is great.
Matthew Sanders
Please give serious responses, not meme responses.
Kayden Sanchez
B U M P U M P
Hudson Lopez
Bump
Luke James
B U M P
Grayson Stewart
I thought this would get more responses honestly.
Noah Cook
Depression these days is caused by porn addiction and excessive internet use. A lot of depression would disappear if people would go outside and work out.
Adam Ortiz
I think anybody who lashes out at others because 'am angri' or 'am de-pressed' is gay.
Parker Reed
For a lot of people I think that's true.
But these kids don't do that, instead they take pills because they think it's what they "have" to do.
Christopher Perry
>LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYBODY. It's a fact of the human condition Actually, we don't. It's part of the condition of being ruled by absentee landlords.
Ethan Diaz
OP can't bump their own thread, OP. That said, it is a political issue when they try to force it on us via transgender acceptance, pedophilia, etc.
Xavier Ward
Modern life may have its unique challenges, but being depressed - or "melancholy" as they used to call it - is still a fact of the human condition.
And of course a lefty would say "no, REAL depression is MORE than just melancholy! People genuinely CAN'T GET OUT OF BED WHEN THEY'RE DEPRESSED!"
Which I think is rubbish. Not to say I don't recognise that some people have bad lives, bad situations, bullying when they were at school, all this sort of stuff. And if people want to take antidepressants then fine, they should give it a shot.
But yeah. The reason I think it's stupid to think of it as a physical dysfunction of the brain is because a) we don't have sufficient evidence to show that's the case for every person who is depressed, and b) it means people ignore the environmental factors that have almost certainly led to them being depressed.
Actually OPs can bump the thread. Sometimes it works. I think there might be a timer or something - if you repeatedly post then it won't bump. But I think if there's been no posts for a few minutes, maybe 10 minutes, and then you post, then it does bump.
I assure you it does sometimes work, because I can see the page change to 1.
>That said, it is a political issue when they try to force it on us via transgender acceptance, pedophilia, etc. Yeah I suppose you could possibly classify those as mental health things - especially in the case of "gender dysphoria". But whatever, my view on that is that I don't really care what an adult does. Just don't push that crap onto children.
Noah Davis
Leftists: >de-stigmatize mental illness! >talk about your mental illness every chance you get to increase awareness!
Normies >hey maybe wanting to chop your dick off and change your gender has something to do with mental illness
Leftists: >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GAGA SAID I WAS BORN THIS WAY
Evan Young
Thats because everyone knows PJW is a fucking hack and will say whatever makes him more popular at the time.
How many times has he threatened to be "off the trump train" now?
The guy is a fucking idiot
Nathan Hughes
I usually like PJW analysis, but he demonstrates a level of narcissism here that I tend to associate with SJWs. I don't think he's qualified to say that deppression doesn't exist. I think it is over generalized, and over perscribed but genuine depression is historic and has a neurological basis. It just seems like he's being edgy for the sake of a reaction. I've lost respect for him to be honest.
James Lewis
Maybe just let them do that though. You can't really force people to be normal if they don't want to be.
As long as they don't push their ideas on kids. Because that's wrong. Children have a right to grow up to the age of 18.
Austin Perez
All I know OP is this; with or without a job I wanted to an hero. With and without a gf I wanted to an hero. Whether I exercised or not I wanted to an hero. I have gone through extreme laziness and extreme discipline and I swear I still want to an hero. Maybe medicine really isn't a jewish conspiracy.
Henry Lopez
I think what alot of people think is depression is complete bullshit. Yes everyone gets sad but what about when for no reason at all you can't concentrate, get driven? You push through anyway but nothing. You don't feel any better. I used to think depression was a meme until I actually had an experience with it. No, SSRIs don't work either. Biggest lie next to well.. you know
Ryan Gomez
Doc fag here, PJW and your post are right when you consider people with sadness, depression, melancholy, whatever. for these people, it's largely their environment that causes them to feel depression and often a change in that environment fixes it. Whether it be getting a job, getting a gf/bf, etc, or even as simply as getting off their ass, off the computer and going outside and trying to accomplish something.
For the people with real depression. It's more complicated then "hurr durr, just get over it." They do have neurochemical imbalances in their brain, mostly serotonin, but other neurotransmitters as well. Changing their environment may bring them closer to feeling normal but oftentimes does not. Their genetics play a heavier role in their case which leads them to needing life long treatment for their depression. Yes, i know "but but but the jew pills." It's sort of the chicken and the egg concept, did the environment cause their depression or did their genetics cause their depression and then took a fat dump on their environment as a consequence. I hope that clears it up a bit considering PJW video was utter shit.
Luke Cruz
Do you have an *argument* at all?
See, I don't agree.
>he demonstrates a level of narcissism here that I tend to associate with SJWs I think it's the complete opposite. Saying depression is overblown is literally the anti-SJW view.
>has a neurological basis Do you have evidence for this? Here's what Wikipedia has to say:
>The 5-HTTLPR, or serotonin transporter promoter gene's short allele has been associated with increased risk of depression. However, since the 1990s results have been inconsistent, with three recent reviews finding an effect and two finding none.[45][46][47][48][49] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Genetics
TLDR - a purported genetic factor is based on results that are "inconsistent". Not exactly concrete evidence!
Aaron Bell
Jew talks in Jew code about Jew-inflicted Jew-lie-of-a-disease.
U a fookin Jew m8?
Dominic Garcia
That sucks, and obviously some people do have genuine unhappiness.
I'm just not convinced that it's due to biological reasons in the brain... because the evidence for that is not hugely compelling, in my view.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it will turn out that there are some brain mechanisms at play. But nobody has conclusively found any such brain mechanisms yet.
Maybe I have my particular view because I've personally known people who have gone onto antidepressants because they thought they had a biological problem, when in my opinion it's quite clear they had unresolved emotional hangups. And in so many cases of people having problems, it's because of disturbing events that have happened to them.
Of course this doesn't mean I'm belittling the hangups. Some people have genuinely bad things happen to them - bullying, abuse, etc. I'm just saying maybe these are the main causes of most people getting depressed. Especially since we don't really have proof that there is anything physically wrong with their brains.
Ryan Ross
Dominance hierarchy
Brayden Parker
>For the people with real depression. It's more complicated then "hurr durr, just get over it." They do have neurochemical imbalances in their brain Where did you go to med school? There is no proof of a chemical imbalance. It's a theory.
Logan Gomez
I think PJW confuses depression with sadness. Sure, everybody feels down occasionally, and people can get over it. But that's not the same as depression where people have nothing good in their lives, where people see suicide as the only way out from the hell they've been trapped in for years
Isaac Mitchell
>I used to think depression was a meme until I actually had an experience with it. No, SSRIs don't work either. I've had experiences of bad moods and shit, and I've been on Prozac (which is a powerful drug, in my opinion. It definitely did work, insofar as it had a powerful effect on my brain.)
I still don't believe depression is the result of physical dysfunctions of your brain, because I don't see the evidence for it. Wikipedia doesn't seem to document any compelling evidence for it.
And in my experience, changing the way you live brings enjoyment and purpose in life. So I think that's the best way to solve one's problems. There is so much to do in life, so many ways that one can develop oneself, and add purpose and meaning to life. Why not do those things? Instead of going onto SSRIs, which only give you *artificial* happiness? The feeling of being on Prozac was unsettling to me, because I wasn't myself. The emotions I had were the product of a drug. It's like my autonomy was stripped away from me.
I find that unsettling, personally. Have you ever read Brave New World? It features a drug called Soma which people take in order to stay blissfully happy, and ignore the fact that they're living in a dystopian tyrannical hellhole. And that's why I feel like the idea of medicating oneself in order to be happy is rather insidious.
Aiden Watson
This entire thread makes me depressed
Austin Clark
You're a fucking idiot.
Jason Bell
I would like to challenge you on this and see what you think.
>They do have neurochemical imbalances in their brain Being depressed means having low serotonin, I get that. But also being excited means having high adrenaline. Being a loving/caring person means having high oxytocin. Also of course the sex hormones in each sex affect our behaviour too.
Do you see my point? All of our emotions are caused by hormones. So your logic does not lead to the conclusion that depression is caused by some physical dysfunction of the brain.
If you think there is a physical dysfunction of the brain that causes people to be depressed, then please tell me what that dysfunction is? Are you going to say "they just happen to produce lower levels of serotonin"? How do you know that's not a reaction to their environment? Can you demonstrate the physical mechanism which conclusively proves that it's NOT due to their environment?
>genetics Again, I don't see the evidence for this. Wikipedia mentions a single gene, but it says that results of whether it causes depression have been "inconsistent":
>The 5-HTTLPR, or serotonin transporter promoter gene's short allele has been associated with increased risk of depression. However, since the 1990s results have been inconsistent, with three recent reviews finding an effect and two finding none.[45][46][47][48][49] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Genetics
Hunter Diaz
> "Elevated levels of cortisol (a stress hormone) are associated with times of stress. Cortisol levels typically decrease to normal levels once the stress has passed, however, in depressed patients, cortisol levels appear to be permanently elevated. Elevated cortisol is more prominent in those with childhood trauma. [Note: cortisol levels have been linked to other mental illnesses such as anxiety and PTSD as well.] Cortisol can be measured in saliva and elevated cortisol levels are almost exclusively found in patients with severe and psychotic depression. The corticotropin-releasing hormone (which stimulates cortisol release, among other things) has been repeatedly shown to play a major role in depression (and other diseases)."
> "Because of the cost of neuroimaging studies, only small-scale study data is available and most studies don’t have overlapping results due to subjects and neuroimaging methods selected. However, structural abnormalities and decreased brain volumes have consistently been found in several areas of the brain of those with MDD. Brain volume in those with untreated depression decreases with the length of the depression."
Nathan Bailey
Yeah but usually that happens due to social/economic/life factors doesn't it?
People get stuck into ruts, where they're jobless / they lose their business / etc. / whatever.
Sorry mate.
That's not an argument.
Jaxon Bennett
>Do you see my point? All of our emotions are caused by hormones. So your logic does not lead to the conclusion that depression is caused by some physical dysfunction of the brain. Yes, all emotions are caused by hormones. Which means that a deficiency in some hormone levels could cause depression. Whether os not that is the case, I don't know. I'm not a medical professional, and neither are you.
>Again, I don't see the evidence for this. Wikipedia mentions a single gene, but it says that results of whether it causes depression have been "inconsistent": Depression hasn't been linked to individual genes, which is to be expected for those who know anything about genetics. But we do know that it is highly heritable
>Major depressive disorder (MDD) is a common psychiatric illness with high levels of morbidity and mortality. Despite intensive research during the past several decades, the neurobiological basis and pathophysiology of depressive disorders remain unknown. Genetic factors play important roles in the development of MDD, as indicated by family, twin, and adoption studies, and may reveal important information about disease mechanisms. This article describes recent developments in the field of psychiatric genetics, with a focus on MDD. Early twin studies, linkage studies, and association studies are discussed. Recent findings from genome-wide association studies are reviewed and future directions discussed. Despite all efforts, thus far, no single genetic variation has been identified to increase the risk of depression substantially. Genetic variants are expected to have only small effects on overall disease risk, and multiple genetic factors in conjunction with environmental factors are likely necessary for the development of MDD. Future large-scale studies are needed to dissect this complex phenotype and to identify pathways involved in the etiology of MDD. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3077049/
Aaron Taylor
>cortisol Yes it makes sense that depressed people are producing more cortisol. They're stuck in a rut because they're stressed by certain things.
This doesn't prove that depression is a dysfunction of the brain. Cortisol is something we all produce in reaction to events. Also you mention childhood trauma, which is what I'm saying - I believe most / nearly all depression is due to experiences (I don't believe people are biologically determined to be depressed - there isn't enough evidence, from what I've seen, to support that theory).
>Brain volume in those with untreated depression decreases with the length of the depression. Which would strongly suggest that the depression is causing the effect on the brain. Not the other way around.
Human brains are very malleable. VERY malleable. Just like the rest of our bodies. This is why I don't subscribe to the view that being depressed is just some dysfunction of your brain that you were born with. I think it's a reaction to your environment. And you might say I'm speculating there, but it seems to me that the "genetic" explanation is pure speculation. No such genetic cause has been conclusively proven at all.
Wyatt Wood
If you can't see how making sweeping statements from an unqualified perspective isn't reminiscient of SJW thinking then you need an MRI scan.
Jayden Cooper
Ah I get it, this is why I constantly felt like killing myself. Dopamine blockers made me lack that rewarding feeling after doing something good. I guess I'll just wait till the prime time to kill all those responsible. I mean I probably won't feel any way about it either, considering the amounts of fine brain damage the anti psych meds did to me. Wish I could just get a fat chunk of cash to forget about my sorrows. But the darkness probably has not enough to spare from their limitless jewish laons. Oh well... I'll just wait.
Adrian Jackson
Life is sort of a series of ups and downs. Things go well, things go poorly, but it all depends on how we persevere and overcome obstacles.
But more often than not, life it pain. It is a series of sometimes very aggressive social tests that you pick and choose when to battle, defend yourself, speak up, or stay silent. If you do not defend yourself and do not stay honest to yourself in certain social situations, people will look down on you, and you will look down on yourself. This has always been how things are, since recorded human history
but the modern view is much different. It sees pain and anguish as worthless and useless and crafts one excuse after another to avoid them. But that is life
also stop using 'evolve' in the mythical sense. In the science, Evolution is a theory about changes: in the Myth it is a fact about improvements. Thus a real scientist like Professor J.B.S. Haldane is at pains to point out that popular ideas of Evolution lay a wholly unjustified emphasis on those changes which have rendered creatures (by human standards) ‘better’ or more interesting. He adds, ‘We are therefore inclined to regard progress as the rule in evolution. Actually it is the exception, and for every case of it there are ten of degeneration.’ But the Myth simply expurgates the ten cases of degeneration. In the popular mind the word ‘Evolution’ conjures up a picture of things moving ‘onward and upwards’, and of nothing else whatsoever. And it might have been predicted that it would do so. Already, before science had spoken, the mythical imagination knew the kind of ‘Evolution’ it wanted. It wanted the Keatsian and Wagnerian kind: the gods superseding the Titans, and the young, joyous, careless, amorous Siegfried superseding the care-worn, anxious, treaty-entangled Wotan. If science offers any instances to satisfy that demand, they will be eagerly accepted. If it offers any instances that frustrate it, they will simply be ignored.
Camden Morales
Okay, let's assume it's environmental. That doesn't stop it from being real. No one is born with a broken arm, it's something we recieve from our environment. No one is denying that we should treat broken arms because it's not genetic. I'm really struggling with the niaviety of people here. As someone who has regularly witnessed pyschotic MDD, I'm amazed that people are seeking professional advice on medicine from an e-celeb YouTuber.
Jason Martin
>Which means that a deficiency in some hormone levels could cause depression. We know for a fact that the levels of hormones we produce are, to a strong degree, caused by our environment. If we're in a stressful environment, we produce more cortisol, for instance.
>we do know that it is highly heritable >thus far, no single genetic variation has been identified to increase the risk of depression substantially. Genetic variants are expected to have only small effects on overall disease risk, and multiple genetic factors in conjunction with environmental factors are likely necessary for the development of MDD. Here's a controversial thought. As controversial as race realism, you could say.
Maybe depression is found to be heritable in twin studies because those twins are similarly short / ugly / etc. to each other? Tons of studies show that tall people earn better in life don't they? So it stands to reason that being short, being ugly, being a bit physically weaker, etc., contribute to whether a person might get depressed.
It's perfectly possible. Is it not?
Jordan Brooks
I personally think I have a legitimate problem based on my past, but this isn't a fucking blog so I won't go over it. I seriously do think people today though give people like me a bad fucking name. Most people aren't actually depressed, just sad and lazy. It makes getting help worse because its now "just take this pill" or "just get over yourself". The system here is so fucked that I needed to put myself into a hospital because of Suicide Ideation just to get a therapist to see once every two weeks.
Jose White
>Human brains are very malleable. VERY malleable. Just like the rest of our bodies. This is why I don't subscribe to the view that being depressed is just some dysfunction of your brain that you were born with. I think it's a reaction to your environment. And you might say I'm speculating there, but it seems to me that the "genetic" explanation is pure speculation. No such genetic cause has been conclusively proven at all. Yes, human brains are very malleable. But human brains definitely aren't a blank slate which is completely a product of the environment. We know this because there is a huge amount of research about the heritability of things such as IQ, or big five personality traits (IQ is about 80% heritable, big five are 50% I believe). Among big five, neuroticism is one of the biggest traits linked to mental disorders.
I mean as an example, consider a thing such as IQ. We know that high IQ correlates with education. Does that prove that IQ is caused by an environmental condition, like education? Or does it mean that high IQ predisposes people to high education (because intelligent people do better in school?). Sure, environment will have a big impact on what knowledge you fill your brain with, but you will never be a genius unless you have the genetics for it, and no amount of environmental stimulus will change that
>We know for a fact that the levels of hormones we produce are, to a strong degree, caused by our environment. If we're in a stressful environment, we produce more cortisol, for instance. Sure, some levels are caused by environment, some are not. Again, you've proved nothing (look into the heritability studies of depression).
>Here's a controversial thought. As controversial as race realism, you could say Race realism is only controversial among retards. Most experts agree that there are genetic differences
(1/2)
Benjamin Gonzalez
Holy shit can't tell if this is elaborate satire or you're actually this confidently retarded
Jack Thompson
>Here's a controversial thought. As controversial as race realism, you could say. >Maybe depression is found to be heritable in twin studies because those twins are similarly short / ugly / etc. to each other? Tons of studies show that tall people earn better in life don't they? So it stands to reason that being short, being ugly, being a bit physically weaker, etc., contribute to whether a person might get depressed. >It's perfectly possible. Is it not? Well, feel free to do a study controlling for all of those factors. But even if depression were caused by the way people are treated by society, because of traits that are genetic, that doesn't mean that the depression itself isn't caused by genetic factors, or that depressed people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Also there is interesting research about brain neurotypes and depression. Interestingly, certain neurotypes seem more predisposed to depression. Unfortunately I haven't really looked into this, so I can't go into details
And just to clarify, obviously depression isn't entirely genetic. Environment does play a huge role.
>Okay, let's assume it's environmental. That doesn't stop it from being real. No one is born with a broken arm, it's something we recieve from our environment. No one is denying that we should treat broken arms because it's not genetic. Those are fair points. And I'm not saying people shouldn't get treatment. I'm just saying I don't think there is enough evidence to say that depression is necessarily a dysfunction of the brain. And I suppose another thing that I've been saying is that I don't think medication is always the best solution. I certainly don't think people should stay on it forever, but lots of people do end up staying on them for a long time.
>As someone who has regularly witnessed pyschotic MDD I've known people with similar things, breakdowns, schizophrenia, including people I know very well, and that's what has shaped my view that environment (and how people respond to these things - which I'm not blaming them for, I just think it's true) plays a powerful role in creating these problems.
Having a depression is good, because that means youre alive.
Connor White
Sorry to hear it man. Hope it gets better. I can see why this is a difficult subject to talk about I guess, obviously some people do indeed have bad problems - problems which, through no fault of their own, affect them but do not affect many other people.
How was the 3 day stay? I knew someone who had to go by force/police and told me they had him drugged up the entire time because they wanted him to be on their schedule. Seems fucked.
Anthony King
>normally a cheery person >feel extreme pain and suicidal despair if off antidepressants too long
I guess the cure is JUST B URSELF BRO xDDD
Landon Morales
I arrived on Thursday and the workers don't care on weekends so I left Tuesday because they needed at least 4 days of evaluation. And Yeah they drugged the shit out of me. You wanna see some fucked shit thats /x/ tier tinfoil? Call the cops on yourself and they will force you to "voluntarily" go in to a poor Mental Hospital where they take away your ability to go outside until you do life their way for at least three days and then they give you a ticket that you then present to the fucking door warden (not kidding) and then you go out to a caged area that looks legit like a Zoo cage where they keep the birds.
Jaxon Turner
>Live in the best countries in the world >get depressed >kill yourself
Jason Perez
>But human brains definitely aren't a blank slate which is completely a product of the environment. Yeah that's a fair point. You do have a point there.
>that doesn't mean that the depression itself isn't caused by genetic factors, or that depressed people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. People can deal with the problems in whatever way they like. But I do think people have a choice, don't they? There are many human beings who do get feelings of depression, and then they DO pick themselves up by their bootstraps (or maybe they lash out in some violent way - I'm certain there are many humans across the Earth who do this).
If people want to take medication then by all means they should go ahead and take it. I just personally don't like that solution though. You can also choose to make changes to your life to feel better. I have been on Prozac, I have experienced it first-hand. It's a powerful drug, but it's not going to fix your life. And the feeling it gives you is artificial. It's like cocaine in a way - you're aware of the fact that you're only feeling high because the drug is having an effect on you.
I think there is something to be said for developing strength of character. That is how humans have done it for centuries. Challenging themselves, and gaining strength of character through the process of defeating these challenges.
Caleb Mitchell
That's not an argument.
Spamming a link is not an argument.
Christian Fisher
Depression isn't the same as feeling sad or down because your dog died. It's a persistent state of negative mindset that never goes away without treatment, and can also be reinforced by OCD and other illnesses.
Would you say that everyone has OCD because one time you washed your hands 3 times in a day? Completely ignoring the fact that people with severe OCD wash their hands 50+ times per day? That would be retarded.
For the same reason, you shouldn't act like you know what depression is because your GF broke up with you and you "totally know how it feels"
Asher Campbell
>I'm just not convinced that it's due to biological reasons in the brain...
Good, because that's an over-simplfied explanation that shouldn't be accepted by anybody. It's not just as simple as a "chemical imbalance in the brain" because it's also caused by various life factors which can be changed. That's what TREATMENT is.
You are clearly ignorant about mental health.
Jack Ortiz
>People can deal with the problems in whatever way they like. But I do think people have a choice, don't they? There are many human beings who do get feelings of depression, and then they DO pick themselves up by their bootstraps (or maybe they lash out in some violent way - I'm certain there are many humans across the Earth who do this). Perhaps that was poor phrasing on my part. In the above situation, people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but they can't. >If people want to take medication then by all means they should go ahead and take it. I just personally don't like that solution though. You can also choose to make changes to your life to feel better. I have been on Prozac, I have experienced it first-hand. It's a powerful drug, but it's not going to fix your life. And the feeling it gives you is artificial. It's like cocaine in a way - you're aware of the fact that you're only feeling high because the drug is having an effect on you. Medication isn't meant to replace life changes, it's supposed to aid them. The problem with depression is that people who have it lose either the motivation or the ability or both to make the changes they should do. Medication isn't supposed to replace that, it's only meant to help in making those changes. >I think there is something to be said for developing strength of character. That is how humans have done it for centuries. Challenging themselves, and gaining strength of character through the process of defeating these challenges. At this point I feel like I'm wasting my time here. Do you even understand what depression is? It's not some momentary little blues.
Wyatt Martinez
Also a Doc. You have to admit the percentage of people you describe is a small fraction of those on the mess.
Carter Carter
this thread is so fucking stupid
something is a mental illness if it fucks with your ability to be sane and your ability to be sane is defined by your ability to function in society without harming yourself or others
depression makes you hurt yourself and hurt others and makes it so you can't function what the fuck is wrong with you
Christopher Martinez
>you're ignorant Not an argument. I look at the evidence myself and make my own conclusions, which is what I do when it comes to anything.
Jeremiah Wood
>It's real because I want it to be real
David Myers
Sounds just like I've heard. Why would you put yourself through that torture? We should expose these fuckers Project Veritas style with hidden cams and show how fucked forced Mental Hospital stay is. They don't care once you reach that low of a point, they just want to exert their power and show what will happen if you try anything to disrupt their system.
As for OP, not everyone is the same. Pills work for some, and not for others. Some people have no luck and seemingly tried everything that isn't barbaric like ECT and end up killing themselves or even worse living unfufilling, dull, tiresome lives. You aren't a professional and neither is your retard e-celeb. There is evidence for neurotransmitters affecting you for depression as people have already explained, yet you still flat out deny it. How simple the world would be if we could put things in a black and white manner just like you wanted.
Elijah Lewis
Feeling bad or sad isn't beign depressed. Depression is when you don't see the point in getting out of bed for two weeks because your feelgood center in your brain simply does not work correctly
Michael Gonzalez
But you haven't looked at any evidence
Austin Taylor
if something makes you do crazy shit like hurt yourself then it is a fucking mental illness, what else do you call it when someone hurts themselves
Jose Williams
Like you said, Its a very low point in ones life.
Isaiah Gray
>There is evidence for neurotransmitters affecting you And there's evidence for adrenaline, testosterone, oxytocin, dopamine, and cortisol affecting you.
You are implying that low levels of neurotransmitters is something that is completely out of people's control, but I don't think it is. Show me the exact physiological mechanism by which some people produce less serotonin, which isn't a result of their environment.
Here's a question, do you think addiction is a disease as well? Just wondering. E.g. internet addiction, gambling addiction, drug addiction.
Morality man (picture related) has always taken the view that addiction is not a disease at all, instead people make a choice to take drugs, they make a choice to gamble, etc.
Owen Brown
show me the exact physiological mechanism by which a person makes a choice about their own neurotransmitter levels
William Hughes
I agree, but I think the differences in degree shouldnt be ignored, we have different brains, individual neurochemistry. I dont think it matters if our knowledge evolves either, because it simply makes too much money. I think there was an interesting story of "depression" and other things were sold to Japan. but i forget the details.
Blake Foster
>feelgood center in your brain simply does not work correctly Really? Where's your evidence to show that it is purely a physiological dysfunction of the brain?
I don't think it is people's brains working incorrectly. Getting depressed is a reaction that ALL OF US HAVE - HEALTHY HUMAN BEINGS.
Which evidence specifically have I not looked at?
Elijah Campbell
You can choose how you respond to life. We are human beings with agency and autonomy.
When I choose to do exercise, or play my guitar, it makes me feel way better. So there you have it, I can make a choice to boost my serotonin levels.
Grayson Lee
that is not a physiological mechanism
that is an indirect mechanism and assumes a baseline seratonin generation flexibility rather than the direct seratonin choice you are implying
show me a physiological mechanism
Bentley Wilson
Look, at this point I can't tell if you're an actual retard. You've watched one PJW video and now you believe you know something about this subject? Are you serious? At the same time you have never ever read any studies or even wikipedia articles about this, while also refusing to read any studies people link to you?
Some hormone levels, such as growth hormone levels, are coded almost entirely by genes. Other hormones are most likely coded by genetics to some extent. Very few traits are completely determined either by genetics or by environment. Usually it's an interaction of both.
The addiction you bring up is an excellent example. Obviously you cannot get addicted to alcohol if you never drink alcohol. So obviously environment does play a role. Does that mean that addiction is entirely down to genetics? Of course not. We know that some people are more prone to addiction because of the way their dopamine system works.
Holy hell, it's like you're a donning kruger kiddo personafied
Jayden Jackson
>reducing human emotions to chemicals holy fuck I hate reductionism, materialism, scientism and similar shit so much
Michael Morales
>Does that mean that addiction is entirely down to genetics? Meant to say:
Does that mean that addiction is entirely down to environment?
Fuck, 4chainz needs an edit function
Julian King
Well said. I used to think I was "depressed." Turns out I was doing drugs, not exercising, eating shit food, having no purpose in life, and masturbating.
You've shown one environmental factor that affects serotonin levels. You haven't shown that environmental factors are the only thing that affects serotonin levels
Christopher Edwards
The whole idea that SSRIs treat depression by "boosting your serotonin levels" is a fucking MEME.
Yes, they are serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Yes, reuptake inhibition boosts serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft.
But the boosted serotonin levels happen INSTANTLY, whereas SSRIs take at least 4 weeks to start working.
This means that SSRIs work by a (currently unknown) long-term adaptive mechanism in the brain -- probably involving changes to DNA expression -- which is an indirect effect of boosting serotonin levels.
Boosted serotonin levels DOES NOT EQUAL less depression. Stop spreading baseless memes.
Gabriel Rodriguez
I have depression and I know for sure that it can be defeated if you have the strength and self-discipline to exercise properly, eat right, and tell shit things in your life to fuck off permanently
Remember though that medicine deals with some quite defeated people, and they are tetchy about telling people to just toughen up.
Jeremiah Walker
>ad hominem Literally not an argument
>You've watched one PJW video False assumption, and even if it were true, that would be the genetic fallacy - "you've only watched one video so you're wrong!" instead of demonstrating the flaws in my argument.
>The addiction you bring up is an excellent example. Obviously you cannot get addicted to alcohol if you never drink alcohol. So obviously environment does play a role. Does that mean that addiction is entirely down to genetics? Of course not. We know that some people are more prone to addiction because of the way their dopamine system works. Well if people have a severe problem with that stuff then they can go and get help - but it is still the case that we all have agency, we all make decisions. When someone picks up a bottle, they're making a choice. Personally, I am going to choose to have agency over my actions. I'm not going to blame my biology.
Some people do have bad biology, I won't deny that. If they want to seek medical treatments then fine. But they COULD make different decisions - we are human beings with agency.
>more ad hominem at the end Ad hominem is really your strong suit isn't it?
Julian Jones
No. Fuck off. You've avoided my question entirely, I was the one who asked YOU to provide evidence for the idea that low serotonin is purely a result of a defective brain. So fuck off until you can do that, thanks.
Chase Bailey
The fact that we have doctors still prescribing SSRIs and antidepressants that have been out for years and have shown their ineffectiveness is pretty disgusting. I've been on meds since I was 18 and I'm nearly 26 now. Been hospitalized, all of that. Not one fucking doctor has been able to figure me out. Either I'm bipolar at one psychiatrist, autistic at the other, or nothing completely besides anxious. It's very frustrating and these doctors either need to make major breakthroughs in mental health or let us live our lives as we see fit without trying to give everyone a goddamn Xanax.
Gabriel Hill
Didn't know that 2bh
>I have depression and I know for sure that it can be defeated if you have the strength and self-discipline to exercise properly, eat right, and tell shit things in your life to fuck off permanently This is exactly what I think. And I think people need to be free to express this opinion.
>Remember though that medicine deals with some quite defeated people, and they are tetchy about telling people to just toughen up. Some people have genuine problems like abuse, proper bullying, molestation, proper bad family problems, and I accept that, and I am not going to tell those people to "toughen up" because they have legitimate reasons to feel unhappy and shit
But yeah, there are some people where I just think "you're a soft cunt". In fact there's quite a lot of people where I think that. In fact probably most people. We all have tough shit to deal with and whether you can deal with it is what separates the winners from the losers. Basically.
Cameron Ross
>i cannot prove my point so instead prove all of modern medical psychiatric science to me lmao
Jaxon Robinson
>ad hominem I'm just saying it as it is.
>False assumption, and even if it were true, that would be the genetic fallacy - "you've only watched one video so you're wrong!" instead of demonstrating the flaws in my argument. I've consistently demonstrated the flaws in your argument, but you seem to be incapable of understanding them. Overall you seem like someone who has a very poor understanding of hereditary traits or biology in general.
As for the other stuff. Yes, obviously, environment does play a role, as does biology. But if you think that depression is as simple as pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, then you've never had depression (so perhaps depression is indeed over-diagnosed?)
>i don't have the intelligence to make an argument so i'll use an appeal to authority instead
Tyler Adams
If depression is having an effect on your life that significantly alters the state of things, the choices you make etc then it is a real problem. Especially if you notice certain things that go wrong in your life for decades and making the same mistakes etc It's like Groundhog Day. It needs to be treated just the same as any other illness. Doctors, sometimes pills, rehabilitation, life coach etc.
Luis Fisher
>Separates winners and losers Even you know thats ridiculous. If you were beaten, emotianally abused, abondoned by parents, and had a parent choose drugs over their child, and then you call that child for being a loser for being depressed, you are a sick fuck. You have already proven to be astronomically ignorant, dont become a cunt.
Austin Reed
>But if you think that depression is as simple as pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, then you've never had depression How do you know that my experience is less bad than someone else's? Just because I choose not to complain about it? So if I chose to say "oh yes I've got this thing called depression, I totally can't help it, it's completely outside of my control" then suddenly I have *real* depression?
If the biological mechanism is so important, then why isn't that used for diagnoses? Wow, really roasts the ol' almonds.
Austin Flores
basically yes, all this. But there is a delicate balance in perception through those chemicals. For some people, it is simply due to being sheltered, and their anxiety amplifies that feeling, but it is illusory, it would disappear if they saw or experienced something that changed their logic.
But there are others whos perceptions are affected a great deal by sensory sensitivities from these imbalances. Basic melding of random noises could cause PTSD for seemingly no reason in some, some people cant control their emotional reactions, and get physically hotter than average during certain states of mind, making things like depression or mania twice as likely to control behavior.
its easy to tell the difference though. People who just need basic mental help, are afraid to admit the disorders they will say they have to people they "trust" as they fear the labels, like a form of hypochondria, they feel like they have it, but they dont want to.
People who actually have it will admit to it and you will see obvious signs of someone living as if they have a physical handicap, and they wont constantly bring it up because they know it doesnt help.
Gavin Morgan
>How do you know that my experience is less bad than someone else's? Just because I choose not to complain about it? So if I chose to say "oh yes I've got this thing called depression, I totally can't help it, it's completely outside of my control" then suddenly I have *real* depression? Because obviously, by your own description, it isn't as bad >If the biological mechanism is so important, then why isn't that used for diagnoses? Wow, really roasts the ol' almonds. Because biology predisposes people towards these conditions, but they don't determine them completely. Like I said, it's a combination of environment AND genetics
Aiden Wilson
Because clearly a shouty northerner subhuman knows what he's talking about and is more qualified than actual doctors to give information regarding this topic. If it's not real how do you explain shit like rising suicide rates etc?
Jose Smith
Agreed, these are the types of brainlets I've have to deal with all the time. Notice how he doesn't advocate for fixing the mental health systems. Instead he simply says >YOU DONT NEED TREATEMENT. I DID IT BY MESELF, EVERYONE CAN. Doubt he even cares about the people who are affected by these illnesses. The eternal brainlet everyone >OP.
Julian Torres
>i made millions of dollars off this financial system, you can too!
Depression is psycho-motor retardation, I had it in HS and it's the worst thing ever, you are basically a vegetable.
SNRIs help like a charm, you can see your future and everything comes easy to you, my body used to chug along my will now everything just flows. Not to mention that the squeezing lungs anxiety feeling does not get triggered anymore.
PJW is wrong, depression is a real physiological illness.
