Arcueid vs Gilgamesh

Who wins in a fight to the death?

Gil's a cutie

Arc.

Lol Ea GG

More like lol Marble Phantasm GG

Gil doesn't even last long enough to spam shit from GoB.

Q: Who is stronger, Gilgamesh or Arcueid (30%)? While Arcueid has the strength of 4 Servants, I remember there being a scene in hollow implying that Gil was the equivalent of 5 Servants + a.

A. In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output changes according to her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is allowed only an output a little stronger than her opponent. And. Single entity abilities of Arc and Servants are roughly on the same level

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "single entity ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the "5 Servants + a" line is a comparison of simple "firepower". Like with the "corpses", foot soldier level opponents aren't going to be avoiding their attacks, so the ones who'd have the advantage are the ones who have more weapons. The reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out in Broad Bridge was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

A fight to death? Arc. Otherwise Gil, because Arc won't be pushed to use her full power.

What about Shiki vs Gil? Can Shiki kill the weapons fast enough?

Depends on the Shiki.

Fatefaggots get out, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Ryougi gets rekt harder.

arc can augment the world with greater speed and power than gil can with ea or his treasury as it would be based on noble phantasms galore, something that's way below arcs level.

Naturally, she isn't as physically capable as Shiki.

...

Go back to /r9k/ child

is this from GO? might pick up the game if this is not fake

It's fake. Whenever the Tsukihime remake comes out they'll probably do something like this as they've already done a crossover with Kara no Kyoukai.

yappari

Still loses to Amaterasu even when they fight on the moon.

>Implying that's Archetype EARTH

Only 30% Arc might lose.

Didn't Gilgamesh lose to Shirou? How could he beat Arc?

Word of god had it that Arc at full power with every back up and so on she can get and on the moon which reduces her enemiy to 1/3 or 1/6 or so she might only have a a chance at beating Amaterasu.
A chance, even with all that she is only barely having a chance.
Sun>Earth
Sun>Moon
Sun>Earth+Moon

It is not Arc might lose, 30% is certain to lose.

It said nothing about Arc at full power, all it said is that Arc with her sanity back might have a small chance of beating Amaterasu. So that's only 30% Arc, since that's the standard version of Arc Nasu uses in vs, unless you have proof he was talking about Archetype Earth, which you don't.

/thread

He talked about her on the moon you tard.

And that means her u+1 boost gets disabled in exchange for a 1/6 power reduction. Nothing about Archetype Earth or her being at full power. On the moon she is arguably weaker.

The Arcueid that we know can't beat Gilgamesh, unless he did something completely retarded like underestimate a goddamn True Ancestor.

Princess Arc MIGHT be able to win, but we never got a definitive answer out of Nasu so it's impossible to say. For now, I guess the answer is she can't.

GIL HAS A BIGGER COCK

Tamamo

>Princess Arc MIGHT be able to win
>For now, I guess the answer is she can't.

Holy crap, Giltards reached a new level of delusion. Nasu never said Shinji can't beat Saber, but guess what?

Archetype uses her authority and erases Gil's atoms with a thought and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it.

Could Ryougi Shiki beat Arcueid?

Arcueid is a single target demolisher, but Gilgamesh is a never ending river of steel. Being able to obliterate Gilgamesh in melee is a trivial feat and doesn't help fighting Gilgamesh at all.
He has shields in the gate, he has phenomenon cancelling effects in the gate, he has more than enough firepower to gun down a large fairy.
In the best case scenario of all scenarios, Arcueid ends up a bloody meat pile on the ground, but unable to die because her death doesn't exist while her connection to earth is intact and the moonlight shines upon her.
In the worst case Gil just severs her connection to the earth with some noble phantasm and she well and truly dies without laying a finger on him.

Arcueid is strong, far stronger than most Fate characters, but she just cannot deal with all the stuff Gil has at his disposal.

Word of God stated many times that Arc at full power is the strongest being on the Type Moon world. On Earth anyway.

>headcanon
this post. kek.

>Arcueid ends up a bloody meat pile on the ground

Hahaha no. If she is damaged to that extent she'll be unable to keep controling her power and go Warcueid. This was exactly what happened in Ciel's true end. In which case Gil is beyond fucked.

That doesn't answer my question.

arcueid holds gilgamesh in place for a second because he's a lazy fag and wouldn't take some random girl in plain clothes seriously, then shiki *teleports behind him* and stabs his lines

GG

gilly because he's a man

>If she is damaged to that extent she'll be unable to keep controling her power and go Warcueid
She has to willingly choose to do that, you know.
She can hold onto her bloodlust even unto death.
She only gives in if she's extremely angry.

>In which case Gil is beyond fucked.
Fanon. All it gives her is unreasonable parameters, but it doesn't unlock any hidden skills.
Sorry for Arcueid, but pure power doesn't beat conceptual armaments, and Gil owns all of them.

at 30% arcueid could recover from a direct hit by MEoDP, something that's explicitly compared to a conceptual weapon and is at least on that level

meanwhile gilgamesh loses in a weaponspam fight against fucking shirou of all people who only learned how to UBW like the day before. underdogs always win in type moon so arcueid being 'weaker' because she doesn't have the gate of asspulls means she's actually more likely to win

>She has to willingly choose to do that

No

"----It's useless. In the first place, Roa, who is her enemy, is inside of you.
And in addition, you wounded her that much. …… Right now, she's turned into a bloodthirsty vampire. She probably won't turn back to the Arcueid you know until she kills you."
"Wha------"

>Fanon. All it gives her is unreasonable parameters, but it doesn't unlock any hidden skills

Yes it does. Do you know Marble Phantasm? Enkidu was able to tell Ea to fuck off by channeling the planet's power and his authorit as an agent of the planet is nowhere near Arc's.

>at 30% arcueid could recover from a direct hit by MEoDP, something that's explicitly compared to a conceptual weapon and is at least on that level
She never recovered. What? You missed the entire point of MEoDP entirely.
Arcueid just rebuilt her entire body. She didn't recover or repair the damage, she simply made a new undamaged body, which ate up a colossal fraction of her power due to the limitless capacity of the true ancestor form.
And she only survived because Shiki just cut her lines. If he stabbed her in the dot she would have perished immediately, for good.

>meanwhile gilgamesh loses in a weaponspam fight against fucking shirou of all people who only learned how to UBW like the day before
A weaponspam fight that nobody else can replicate. Irrelevant to this discussion.

>underdogs always win in type moon so arcueid being 'weaker'
Stupid conclusion. If you're going with themes of Type-Moon, then Arcueid is a monster and Gilgamesh is a hero, and the natural order is for heroes to slay monsters.

>No
Yes.
See: the Arcueid route climax where she verges onto death and doesn't go Red Arcueid, because she doesn't want to disappoint Shiki.

>Right now, she's turned into a bloodthirsty vampire
You do realize it's Ciel saying this, right? Ciel is deeply biased against Arc.

>Yes it does. Do you know Marble Phantasm?
She can do that at 30% form and it doesn't help.

>Enkidu was able to tell Ea to fuck off by channeling the planet's power and his authorit as an agent of the planet is nowhere near Arc's.
Enkidu becomes a channel of the counter force when he utilizes his Enuma Elish. He gets a super bonus because he's acting against an "attack to the planet". Even then, it only cancels it out.
Arcueid only receives backup in accordance of the strength of her enemy, which is trivial in Gil's case because his strength comes from his arms, not his person.

the implication is that shiki managed to land in her point (or whatever her equivilent is) when he was hacking her into kibble & thats why she can't just regenerate that body the way literally everyone else that shiki just cuts the lines on can

also

>arcueid
>monster

>the implication is that shiki managed to land in her point (or whatever her equivilent is) when he was hacking her into kibble
There's nothing that ever implies this.

>& thats why she can't just regenerate that body the way literally everyone else that shiki just cuts the lines on can
Nobody can regenerate when he cuts their lines. He cuts the lines on Roa in Ciel's route and he has to run away on a single leg. He cuts the line on Nrvnqsr's arm and Nrvnqsr freaks out about the fact that it's not regenerating.

>arcueid
>monster
She is "that which is not human" by every standard. If Shiki's instincts trigger her as a monster, you can bet the narrative would too.

Didn't the author say how the battle would work?

Are we just ignoring this?

>taking the word of the author over a certified autist on Sup Forums
How dumb can you be?

Goku.
Unrelated question, would enkidou chains work on him since he is a "god"?

Only if he's using god ki at the moment

He only has God Ki, he hasn't been formally elected as a God.

>cross-series powerlevels
I knew there was something missing to make this thread more inane.

>Yes.

Roa didn't physicaly damage her, he killed her life force. Nevermind the fact it was stated she literally killed herself the moment she used Marble Phantasm. Completely different instances.

>You do realize it's Ciel saying this, right?

So? She explicitly isn't wrong.

>30% form

Surely I don't have to explain how much of a differnce there is between 30% and 100%, right? It's basic math.

>Arcueid only receives backup

Except Warcueid was explicitly stated to be able to use her full power even against humans. She'll crush Gil by dropping a fucking moon and none of his weapons would be able to save him.

Essentially Arc has a +1 to all of Gil's raw stats, While Gil has the infinite versatility of his vault to support him.

The only reason Gil would lose is if he goes full retard and doesn't use his best weapons righ of the bat.

>Roa didn't physicaly damage her, he killed her life force
That doesn't actually change a thing.

>So? She explicitly isn't wrong.
Ciel is wrong about a lot of things regarding Arcueid due to her biased pessimism. She also says Arc will inevitably end up drinking Shiki's blood.

>Surely I don't have to explain how much of a differnce there is between 30% and 100%, right? It's basic math.
Doesn't change Marble Phantasm at all, unless there's any indication there's some sort of super saiyan Marble Phantasm EX++ that you can only unlock by putting EVEN MORE POWER into it. But there isn't.

>Except Warcueid was explicitly stated to be able to use her full power even against humans. She'll crush Gil by dropping a fucking moon and none of his weapons would be able to save him.
Gil probably has a noble phantasm for that.
Remember, this guy can cancel the second sorcery.

Who the fuck is Warcueid

>That doesn't actually change a thing

It does since she died the moment she used Marble Phantasm and Roa overkilled her. Obviously she can't go berserk if she is dead.

>Doesn't change Marble Phantasm at all

It explicitly does. Do you even know what Marble Phantasm is? It's literally the power to make fantasy a reality. The limits are the imagination and how much authority the elemental posseses. It has no correlation with simple powers, and a boost from 30% to 100% won't even scale linearly. It's like having a portion of your brain abilities vs all of it.

>Gil probably has a noble phantasm for that.
>Noble Phantasm for stopping an anti-planet level attack

No. A variation of that power (Blut der Schwester) while on the moon is able to depower a literally invincible enemy, falling moon is a different application of that same power. Sorry but no, it terms of scale, power and concept it absolutely shits on everything Gil has, including Ea.

and he won't go full retard on an opponent like Arc

>It does since she died the moment she used Marble Phantasm and Roa overkilled her. Obviously she can't go berserk if she is dead.
She wouldn't be dead if she could tap into 70% of her life force.

>It explicitly does. Do you even know what Marble Phantasm is? It's literally the power to make fantasy a reality. The limits are the imagination and how much authority the elemental posseses.
Hollow fanon. Nothing ever implies that marble phantasm "scales" at all, it's a do or do not ability. You can do it or you can't, and if you can do it you can do everything it entails.

>No. A variation of that power (Blut der Schwester) while on the moon is able to depower a literally invincible enemy, falling moon is a different application of that same power. Sorry but no, it terms of scale, power and concept it absolutely shits on everything
No, it doesn't have anything in terms of concept. In terms of concept it's the largest bludgeon you can imagine and nothing else.
Also,
>Noble Phantasm for stopping an anti-planet level attack
Yeah it's called Achilleus Cosmos.

>The limits are the imagination and how much authority the elemental posseses.

Actually, its limits are any effects that can be replicated naturally. That still spans a massive amount of options for combat, but it's not almighty. Also, Arceuid already has the highest authority in the world. Most elementals can only use some functions of Marble Phantasm in their common activities as part of the world. Arceuid is the only living being who can use any and all of the world's processes within Marble Phantasm.

>She wouldn't be dead if she could tap into 70% of her life force

Except she was tapping into it in order to suppress her bloodlust. Roa killed the rest of it, which was why she was only able to revive after the power Roa stole from her went back to her. Again, completely different from Ciel's route. Your whole point is meaningless, since you are aguing for a contradiction.

>and if you can do it you can do everything it entails

Except it's explicitly stated in the Plus Period entry that imagination/thoughts are used to make full use of Marble Phantasm and most of them are used to supress bloodlust the entire reason why True Ancestors can't usually use their full power. This is all documented in Plus Period.

>No, it doesn't have anything in terms of concept

Everything is about concepts. Entire reason why a chunk of ice can cut through a 3000 degree energy beam because the later's concept is superior.

>Achilles Cosmos

That thing breaks against anti-world, let alone something that can destroy a whole planet.

30% lose because the +1 doenst help her in anything against gil, she still can keep a fight against 2 servants at the same time so her base stats are pretty high. 100% can beat him though, she doeesnt depend on the +1, her stats and mp are even more broken and even meodp cant see her dead.

>Noble Phantasm for stopping an anti-planet level attack
>Yeah it's called Achilleus Cosmos.

You know that cosmos lose to that kind of attacks right? god even if the np can block other attacks thank to his concept the shield could still break anyway if the attack have anough fire power

The moon is too small to outright destroy a planet.

>Except she was tapping into it in order to suppress her bloodlust
And she didn't stop suppressing it in order to survive.
Thus, she can choose to die without giving in.
That's the point to be made. It's not automatic that she gives in when damaged, she has to choose to give up her restraint.

>xcept it's explicitly stated in the Plus Period entry that imagination/thoughts are used to make full use of Marble Phantasm and most of them are used to supress bloodlust the entire reason why True Ancestors can't usually use their full power
Their thoughts aren't restrained by their power at all. They can't use their full power as in their literal, physical strength is what is restrained. They are literally holding themselves back. If it was mental they'd have the same physical abilities as ever.

>Everything is about concepts. Entire reason why a chunk of ice can cut through a 3000 degree energy beam because the later's concept is superior.
Utterly and irrevocably false in Type-Moon. Concepts exist and numbers exist, and they're not intrinsically correlated. Something of extremely high numbers can be of extremely low concept.
No matter how much force is put into it, even enough power to destroy the planet, a spear thrown without a concept cannot break even the first petal of Rho Aias because it embodies the concept of "invulnerable to thrown projectiles". It has to have a concept that in some way contests with that to have any chance at all.

>arcfags seriously think their waifu can beat ea
Jesus

>guaranteed replies

It's arc btw. Literally has the power to rewrite reality on a local (ie planetary) scale.

>And she didn't stop suppressing it in order to survive

Because she thought she had killed Roa and Shiki would be alright. If you are going to factor in personalities for match ups then Gil loses by default because he doesn't fight seriously against women and children.

>Their thoughts aren't restrained by their power at all

True Ancestor [Term]
Source: Tsukihime Data Collection (2000-12-31), p.026
Tsukihime Dictionary

>And, in order to suppress that impulse, they consume their own willpower.
>Those that can change the state of the world merely by thinking are instead forced to use almost all of those "thoughts" to restrain themselves.

>Utterly and irrevocably false in Type-Moon

Everything has a concept but can be low as you said. Thing is Blut der Schwester is more powerful in terms of concepts than anything Gil has. It can bring to her knees an invincible being that fodderizes another being that in turn fodderizes Gil. Blut der Schwester is easily one if not THE most potent shit we've seen in TM works.

>all this Arc wank

Nigger, Nasu himself said she doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell against Gil. The backup she gets against him is not enough to compensate for his treasury. It's a bad matchup for her. Get the fuck over it.

>b-b-but Arc can beat Amaterasu and Gil can't!

It's all about affinities. Arc gets huge backup from Gaia against someone as powerful as Amaterasu. She would at least be one step greater than Amaterasu in every parameter if they fought. And even then, she only has the slightest, tiniest chance of beating her.

>Nasu himself said

Nasu was only talking about 30% Arc. If Arc stops controlling her bloodlust she is 30% no longer. You are the one bringing personalities into this, you can't have Arc being IC while having OOC serious Gil.

>It's all about affinities.

I'm talking about the conceptual powers of Blut der Schwester, not whether Arc can fight Amaterasu.

>fight to the death
RIP my golden boy. Gil will win Arc in any situation except a death match.

Why in god's name would Arc ever stop controlling her bloodlust? She would rather die than ever do that. It's not a case of being OOC or not, it literally will not ever happen outside of fantasyland reality warping.

Moreover, how is Gil being serious against the goddamn Ultimate One of Earth OOC?

>I'm talking about the conceptual powers of Blut der Schwester, not whether Arc can fight Amaterasu.
>It can bring to her knees an invincible being that fodderizes another being that in turn fodderizes Gil.

This isn't about Amaterasu?

Better question: Which one would win in an Iron Chef battle?

>it literally will not ever happen
>Gil kills or wounds Shiki

Literally all it would take.

At any rate Gil can't win a deathmatch, since Arc being killed brings out Archetype Earth like in Roa's ending, which would destroy Gil.

>This isn't about Amaterasu?

i'm not talking about Arc beating Amaterasu, but the fact that Blut der Schwester works on Amaterasu while even Ea doesn't scratch her.

>Why in god's name would Arc ever stop controlling her bloodlust? She would rather die than ever do that. It's not a case of being OOC or not, it literally will not ever happen outside of fantasyland reality warping

Already happend in the ciel route almost happend in arc route too when she tried to suck shiki blood.

>Moreover, how is Gil being serious against the goddamn Ultimate One of Earth OOC?

Gil knows nothing about vampires or arc they're a blind spot for him and if he can't read someone then he holds back like vs true archer when he refused to take out EA.

All this is irrelevant though for the simple fact beating someone at 30% of their normal power means fuck all and that's not even getting into archetype earth.

>Literally all it would take.

Maybe in Tsukihime, when Arc is emotionally compromised and unable to deal with it because it's completely new to her to be in love. She would have already come to accept the inevitability of Shiki's death later on. It's more important to her to not taint the memory of Shiki than to foolishly give in to her bloodlust just for short-sighted victory that would just lead to greater suffering. And if Shiki isn't killed, he would actively stop her from losing it.

>At any rate Gil can't win a deathmatch, since Arc being killed brings out Archetype Earth like in Roa's ending, which would destroy Gil.

100% wrong, for two reasons. If Gil does successfully kill Arc, then he won the deathmatch regardless of what comes after. The other reason is that Arc Earth won't come out just because Arc gets killed. The situation with Roa was a special circumstance. If Shiki or whoever successfully killed Arc, that would be the end of it.

>Gil knows nothing about vampires or arc they're a blind spot for him and if he can't read someone then he holds back like vs true archer when he refused to take out EA.

Vampires =/= True Ancestors.

Every Servant in Extra recognized who Arceuid was at first glance. If they could, Gilgamesh absolutely would. Even if he somehow did not recognize her, he can sense if someone is an actual threat or not. Arc is so obviously powerful that you don't need EX rank Clairvoyance to tell it at a glance.

>All this is irrelevant though for the simple fact beating someone at 30% of their normal power means fuck all

Arc will never exceed 30% of her power until the day comes that she takes up the mantle of Crimson Moon.

>and that's not even getting into archetype earth.

Archetype Earth is not an existence that will ever actually happen outside of fantasyland reality warping, just like Warceuid.

>Maybe in Tsukihime

It literally happens in Roa's route in MBAA.

>kill Arc, then he won the deathmatch regardless of what comes after

Except he explicitly cannot make Arc stay dead unless Archetype Earth is killed. If Arc is kille Archetype Earth can take over, this was stablished since Kagetsu Tohya.

>outside of fantasyland reality warping

Way to show your ignorance, if you had read Archetype Earth's MBAACC story until the ending you'll know everything that happened there was all real.

>It literally happens in Roa's route in MBAA.

Oh yeah. You're right. I forgot. Still bothers me that Arc has made 0 character growth since Tsuki.

>Except he explicitly cannot make Arc stay dead unless Archetype Earth is killed.

Archetype Earth is Arc. If Archetype Earth shows up, Arc was never dead to begin with.

>If Arc is kille Archetype Earth can take over,

Can, but not will. It's not something that should happen in the natural course of affairs (like a random grudgeless battle against a Heroic Spirit). Arc had a specific vendetta against Roa in that case.

>everything that happened there was all real.

Yes I know, that's why I called it reality warping and not a dream.

>Arc has made 0 character growth since Tsuki.

If she started to become more independent and not hang on Shiki all the time, it would piss all the fans of that pairing off because it would appear as if she doesn't love him as much anymore.

Granted, she probably never should have fallen in love with him in the first place and that romance is probably the most unbelievable part of Tsukihime, but still.

>Still bothers me that Arc has made 0 character growth since Tsuki

Any heroine would be mad if their mortal enemy killed their lover, not just Arc.

>Arc had a specific vendetta against Roa in that case

Archetype doesn't care about Roa. She does care about Arc though as seen in KT and her win quotes, so there is no way she'll let Arc's body die permanently.

>that's why I called it reality warping

There was no reality warping, besides maybe in the final fight when Arc fights Archetype. Everything besides that Archetype took over since normal Arc was sleeping, that's all.

Who would win, Arc or the entire US military in a fight to the death?

Checkmate.

Slayer

Tohno Shiki

Arc = World
Gil = World buster
Pure Math

That final dress for Arcueid really needs to have a final ascension art done by the artist.

>asian divinty shroud
is this new?

>Fight start
>Gill die in less than 1 second
nothing gilltard pull out of his ass can save his own ass, he even don't have a time to do to any asspull anyway.

Looks like Arc compresse space in that scene. Marble Phantasm is truly one of the ultimate powers.

World Buster for reality Marbles. And he only reveals the truth

Arc talents: World Breaking

You are supposed to protect the world, Arc, not destroy it.