So I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole ancap thing. I'm not sure what it is exactly, or why people support it. Would a system where everyone in the country lived, "off the grid" with solar panels, homegrown food, etc. be ancap?
> Also memeball thread.
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>Would a system where everyone in the country lived, "off the grid" with solar panels, homegrown food, etc. be ancap?
You seem to misuderstand ancap, while such a system could theoretically be ancap, ancaps have no desire to live "off the grid". They simply want to privatize everything.
What's the difference between that and regular capitalism with things privatized. Also what about that involves, "Anarchy".
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>What's the difference between that and regular capitalism with things privatized.
Nothing really, except ancap has EVERYTHING privatized. There are no public services that are maintained through coercion (charity and stuff is fine though). Also no taxes.
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Okay, but how is that anarchy?
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There's no government and no rulers. Only people voluntarily exchanging goods and services.
Last one.
All of your normal daily interactions are anarchic. Unless you're a cop or a judge or some other goon.
And how would you maintain public order. What's stopping one company from conquering all the other and changing the system of government? This doesn't sound like a system that could maintain itself for extended periods of time.
the jews from Mossad start a False Flag Attack to start a War with North Korea, by having an israeli Nuclear Submarine firing Nukes over Californian Cities and starting an Earthquake that will shake the San Andreas Fault Line, and break California into pieces, Literally. and in order to trick Trump into thinking North Korea did it, thus War with North Korea begins.
its Moloch who wants this, NOT KEK, because jews will do this False Flag as a Sacrifice to Moloch just like 9/11. jews worship Moloch and Hate KEK, and try to do anything as much as Possible to Attack KEK.
Trump better find out Quickly. the israeli Sub that will Launch Nukes to California is in the Sea of Japan already as we speak.
im all Warning you on this but you either Ignore me or Laugh at me. you will be soooooo sooooooooo S-O-R-R-Y you didnt Believe me.
SCREENCAP THIS
I live in California, unfortunately.
What's stopping government goons from using threatening you with violence and taking your stuff right now? Because it seems they're already doing both of those things to you.
>What's stopping one company from conquering all the other and changing the system of government?
Every other person and company would oppose them, and it wouldn't even be a profitable endeavor for them. Obviously this system would require the majority of the population to support anarcho-capitalism, but that's why ancaps tend to support ancap micro-states.
Communists do the same thing man. That's part of public order, so long as it's used on criminals and suspected criminals. Except commies do it on anyone who disagrees with them.
The state can't compel you to do anything. Except by social norms.
>communists do the same thing
Yes they do. Fuck commies too.
>that's public order
No, that's goonery. There's nothing "ordered" about some goons threatening you for not doing what they say.
Do you know what legal positivism is? It's the thesis that what law is is completely separate from morality. And the vast, vast majority of the lawyers who end up making the laws you have a religious reverence for believe in that thesis.
Far flung ideologies dont work.
Ancap,ancom,facism you eventually have to go center and pick policies from everything. You cant make life horrible because society will collapse, and you cant have a socialist utopia because people get bored or mass immigration ruins it.
>far flung
Every position is "far flung" to some nitwit. What's "far flung" is utterly normative.
So do Nazis like Loki these days? or did you just forget to change your flair?
It could be entirely profitable for all companies involved if they're adsorbed, rather than conquered. Plenty of companies partner with companies of equal, or greater size, and plenty buy smaller ones. All it would take is several large company alliances, the involvement of smaller companies, back stabbing, and some finesse. Isn't the logic used by Sup Forums to explain why the Jews are so good at what they do, that they spent so much time in bazaars? Ancap would be that on steroids. They'red be so much pressure that people would become increasingly distrusting, psychopathic, and intelligent because that would do the best. It sounds like a system to create super Jews.
Yes. Law is separate from morality. Large government manage numbers, not people. If the numbers lean one way, they either lean that way too, or balance it back. Besides morality is subjective anyway.
U r gay.
>they
All government does is threaten you and take your things. They have no incentive to help you in any way, which is why they don't.
That sounds about right.
The incentive is power. Only idiots think you can oppress people and never expect them to revolt eventually.
>the incentive is power
They already have that. And they already oppress you, and you're still pining on behalf of the people who only incessantly wrong you and everyone else.
Depends on your definition of oppression and how ungrateful you are. I can eat food everyday, have a house, clean water, and I can bathe regularly. That doesn't sound like oppression. I have autism and they kill and discriminate against people like me in other countries.
> They already have that.
And they want to maintain it. That's why bread and circus industries exist. They fear civil war.
>ungrateful
????
Are you really that much of a sunk loon? Jesus Christ, you really think you owe the fact that you exist to *government bureacrats*????
Not that I exist, no, but how well I live, yes. By global standards, running water makes you rich. Look at countries like North Korea, China, Venezuela, etc. and you can see what oppression looks like. The majority of the human population doesn't even have internet access man, google that shit. The USA gives me opportunity and freedoms that no other country does. I appreciate the fact, but if I felt that I was being oppressed I would turn on the government in an instant, but I don't. I mean, don't get me wrong. You can't trust officials and politicians as far as you can throw them, but in the end we elect them, so the blame is shared.
Loki who?
Tyrannical paper pushers and thieving goons do not improve your quality of life. They dramatically detract from it by virtue of them A) threatening you with violence at all times, B) taking your property, C) doing with your property worse than what you would do yourself.
>we elect them
Who the fuck is "we"? You think majority rule that you are SUBJECTED TO magically makes all the people it's forced on responsible for the actions of state goons? Cut the crap. You're not responsible for the actions of anyone but yourself, and neither is anyone else.
The electoral collage exists to balance out majority rule, which is why Trump won. You could always gain rapport and replace those, "Tyrannical paper pushers" it's a privilege of living in a free society. If you don't like something, and it means enough to you, then you can change it.
Besides majority rule isn't an inherently bad system. It does have drawbacks, but it's based on the truth that you can't make everyone happy.
It doesn't matter what rules the goons tell you they place on themselves - they're still violently subjecting you to their whims. Through violence. All government laws - ALL of them - are threats of violence. Every single one. And you've already conceded that there's no moral connection to man-made law, so what are you even trying to say is the benefit of having violent thugs lord over you exactly? You've somehow mystically attributed your well-being to them, but what do they ACTUALLY do for you?
>Besides majority rule isn't an inherently bad system
In what world is "Bob and Jim are more people than Sally, therefore Bob and Jim raping Sally is OK" justifiable????? That's literally surrendering to absurdity - you are trying to justify absurdity.
They keep other thugs away lol. Can you describe what you mean by violent enforcement? I'm interested in what you, as an individual feel as the government being oppressive. I did say law was separate from morality, but not in all cases and it also depends on your definition of morality. Birth control is illegal in some places for purely moral reasons. Morality is subjective, remember? The USA law system is based, primarily, on the ten commandments.
Does anybody have the template for these?
(I saved over mine, like a retard)
>they keep other thugs away
When have you ever been protected by a paper-pusher or a servant of a paper-pusher? Has it happened even once? Have you ever thought that the thing that wards people away from using violence against you is their self-interest telling them that it's not worth it to violate you? And WHY is their self-interest wrapped up in not violating you? Because people are generally OK with violence being used against the violent. Which anyone can do, including you. Buy a fucking gun.
Human beings are absurd and irrational by nature, there's no need to justify it. In fact, reality is rather absurd when you look at it.
Right and wrong is determined by the majority. Female genital mutilation is legal in some place because the majority say it's okay. Cultural differences exist. In your example if Bob, Jim, and Sally were the last people on Earth, then by definition, it would be morally okay if the majority, Bob and Jim, said it was. It's also, to use your own words, rather, "absurd" to expect three people to make up a society. It's like apples and oranges.
>people can be irrational
>therefore it's OK that I am presently being irrational
Jesus Christ.
Police arrest murders all the time, that feels like protection to me. Besides all humans move on self interest, it's normal. I like reading about psychology because it explains things like that really well.
I'm not being irrational at all though? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you because from my perspective you seem to be rather angry and irrational.
Are you suggesting we live in anarchy where anything goes? That would be a much worse system. Being able to do whatever you want means anyone else can too. It's not a good life to live.
>that feels like protection to me
You feel protected when a murderer murders and only after the fact gets caught????
They're a murderer because they murdered someone - the person who was murdered wasn't protected at all.
You unironically tried to pretend majority rule is perfectly fine. It is not perfectly fine to any rational actor because it would blatantly justify activities and circumstances that no rationally self-interested person would abide by.
here you go.
You compare our standard of living with those of commies in North Korea, China, and Venezuela, all countries with even more state control over their lives than us, and surprise surprise, we have better quality of life.
Look at areas where the public and private sector compete and tell me which does a better job. Are the best universities public or private? The best hospitals? The best radio stations? I can't think of one area where the public and private sector compete that the private sector doesn't win out. Even areas like criminal justice, a historic state monopoly, are better served by private prisons than state institutions.
What do your most frequent interactions with the government look like? How efficient would you say your county clerk's office or tax assessor is? Have you ever been in a government office that wasn't a dump? Can you see a business staying open if it ran with the same standards of your driver license office.
>where anything goes
What does that even MEAN? Say your city government was gone tomorrow morning - all the goons decided they were done stealing from you and telling you what to do (or else). Do you think that would mean "anything goes"????
You think people would just sit on their hands going "welp, I guess if someone murders my neighbor I'll just have to put up with it because there's not anything anyone could do without thieves taking my money"? Do you think police have super special magic powers???
Fascism isn't far flung; I wouldn't consider it to be anywhere near an extreme ideology. It's just that fascists allied with nazis in WWII that people can't differentiate between the two ideologies.
It's kinda hard to punish someone before they commit a crime, that would be oppression from my perspective. Besides, people die and bad things happen, it's part of life. I don't expect perfection, I expect that an attempt be made to maintain order. Which is exactly what is done by punishing murderers.
But morality is subjective, thus all activities and circumstances don't need justifications. You are describing an emotional response, not a logical truth. Most people don't understand that. There are countries where stoning people to death is morally acceptable. There are many ways to think about things. Saying majority rule is bad is an opinion, just like me saying it's okay is an opinion. The fact that morality is subjective is an objective fact. Having the most popular opinion doesn't make you more rational, it just means you have the most popular opinion.
I'm not sure what I said that would make you think I disagree with you. Everything you said is true.
We're not talking about punishment. We're talking about PROTECTION. You used the word PROTECTION. Anyone can respond after an event. Literally anyone with a functioning body. But you said police PROTECT you. And you seem to think they have a UNIQUE ability to do so, such that NO ONE ELSE could do what they do.
Anything goes just means that people can go into your house and kill, or rape you without any large scale deterrent to that behavior. I don't expect my neighbor to protect me at all man. People that are willing to save strangers are rare. If you have a wife and to kids, you're going to protect your family, not someone else. You sound incredibly naive. People are animals, both literally and figuratively.
There's a market for people warding off violent aggressors - that's what you're saying. So wouldn't you be better off making the decision to buy such a thing yourself, and not having it violently foisted on you by a completely unaccountable and noncompetitive monopoly?
I never said they have a unique ability. They're just an organized form of crime deterrent, and a means of enforcing the law. By protection I mean that I'm less likely to get murdered if the person that wants to do it is likely to get punished for it. I mean yeah, I could just shoot the guy invading my home sure, but in California you're likely to go to jail for that because we have a liberal majority right now. Along with the fact that it's much harder to get a gun here. Now you could blame that on, "the man", but it's very clearly the people who support that ideology, liberals, that are to blame. I could also just move to another state if I really wanted to.
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Police are like a form of welfare for people that can't afford to hire bodyguards, or outfit their house with security systems. Poor people exist you know. Should we let them suffer because they can't afford security?
Anyone can call 911, but not everyone has money.
People who can afford it will pay for it.
And the people who won't buy it receive a benefit in the form of a positive externality in that aggressors don't know who's paying for protection and who's not.
Besides, the amount people pay for police (who are utterly inefficient and noncompetitive) is a tiny fraction of what even poor people have taken out of their paychecks from withholding and from sales tax. That's brute reality.
Welp. I'm going to go play fap titans, or something because I started this thread almost an hour ago and I got the answer about ancaps awhile ago.
It's been fun.
>Not the HD Memeball(TM) Transparent(R) template (editing software(C) sold seperately) edition
why even bother at this time in the morning?
Before I go I'd like to remind you that security systems advertise outside of peoples houses, and welfare of any kind isn't' that great. It's literally just the thing you resort to if you've got nothing left to go to. Cops also aren't the only thing payed for by taxes and liberals like to defend and ruin them. Complaining about their inefficiency is like shooting your own foot and complaining about the pain. If you want it to be better, go out and do something productive to solve the problem instead of protesting and shitposting.
Once again, it's been fun.
defund them*
Because that'll make them more effective
fuck misread
Grammar correction.
The wild-west was essentially ancap.
Ancap is always a transitional stage of the frontier. As more and more people starting living there governments naturally arise. The golden age of Anarcho Capitalism will be once space colonization becomes affordable, then they will always be able to live on an ever expanding fringe.
The individualist always seeks to run away to the frontier searching for personal freedom. Through their endeavors they eventually make the frontier livable and more people come. Eventually, however, there is a breaking point and the collectivists take over. The individualist then either has to hide or once again venture into the frontier.
What we experience today is what happens when there is no frontier and individualists have no outlet for their yearning.
The productive thing is to have a competitive marketplace.
You're defending state monopoly REALLY badly if your end argument is unironically "lol so what if it sucks it's the way it is xD".