F-35s waste of money?

I've heard a lot of things about the F-35 and I know the US military sunk billions into the development of it, but how well does it perform compared planes like the F-15 Eagle or F-22?

youtu.be/zW28Mb1YvwY
youtu.be/jjOqKfbekGg

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=RbIRgxWPrQ0
medium.com/war-is-boring/stuka-and-sturmovik-the-aircraft-that-inspired-the-a-10-8c8d885d61db
youtube.com/watch?v=fGb0cPp6U-w
youtube.com/watch?v=Mcf9CLMQuRQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Money Laundering Scheme?

Yes. Black Projects.

...

its fuckin horrible, its just going to cuck our troops harder. looks sexy but is just all around garbage, i will stick with my air senpai thank you very fucking much

did i mention that the A10 was developed based on a Luftwaffe pilots diary?

>but how well does it perform compared planes like the F-15 Eagle or F-22?

No one knows, because they are a black hole of money and never get finished.

jobs program

Trump better reveal the mysteries of space. Im excited.

Russian shills hate it.

Stupid stealth helicopter.

It's fine now.

The delays were its biggest problem, but it's getting operation across the board.

It'll be no different than a F-22 for A2A; invisible AIM-120 spam.

your meme plane cant even destroy a T-62.

shit wrong f-15 video.
youtube.com/watch?v=RbIRgxWPrQ0

...

You're not red pilled until you realize the trickery of the F-35Jew.

They got a blank check and intentionally fucked things up or delayed cuz of muuuuhh testing uselessapplicationsthatweknewwouldbetossed.

If someone gave you a blank check, wouldn't you cash it user?

It has too many jobs to do. Tools do not come one size fits all.

got a link for that, Adolf?

A *LOT* of people got rich off this program. Kinda like the initial Odumbocare website that cost one billion dollars.

>literally wikipedia and in official documentation

That's all it takes to stop stealth planes.

Great Aircraft. Love the A-10.

>implying PAK FA isn't superior

It's a multi-role jet. Basically that means it's worse than an air superiority fighter at dog fighting, and worse than traditional attack aircraft at air-ground attacks.

ok so you can't post a link. Got it.

kek

F-15, F-16, F/A-18 either began as or evolved into multirole aircraft. Clearly the flexibility to engage both air and ground targets is of value to the armed forces.

I can, i just told you to not be a lazy faggot and find it yourself because it literally takes a few seconds and its not my job to spoonfeed you info

Fuck, that was hard.

Hey, it's ok if you lied about a link that doesn't exist. Was just checking to see if it was real or not. Now it's clear you were just making shit up. Carry on.

see
you double nigger

Still, the expectation should be on the faggot brapposting about an obsolescent ground attack platform to provide a source imo

You can't really compare it to the F-22 as they are supposed to have different specialties. The F-22 is optimized for air to air combat with the ability to also strike ground targets. The F-35 is mostly designed to strike ground targets but still be pretty good at air to air combat.

They are meant to work together to create a total package. F-22s will focus on controlling the skies while F-35s fly through that controlled airspace and strike ground targets.

Fake and gay

You can just fucking Google it, you fucking lazy moron.
Dumb by choice.

>obsolete
prove it. modern aircraft are no more equipped to deal with ground threats then the A10

It's based on preexisting planes that performed that exact same role, of course it's not fake.medium.com/war-is-boring/stuka-and-sturmovik-the-aircraft-that-inspired-the-a-10-8c8d885d61db

most of that money goes into black dick projects.

I didn't give a shit about the veracity of the claim and still don't. Just observing the thread.

still gay

Even if that were true they only have like three of them.

>I don't believe things because it doesn't conform with my preconceived opinions of how the world works.
Forever dumb by choice.

There are all sorts of electronic countermeasures that are classified that no civilian has clearance to know about. Even back in the vietnam war we had electronic countermeasures that could spoof radar signals back to the radar guided missiles and trick them into activating their proximity fuses early and detonating too far away to do damage. I'm sure those sorts of countermeasures have only improved and increased in complexity.

F-35 was a project whose purpose was to deliver billions to Lockheed Martin Executives.

It's been a huge success.

Otherwise, no it's a complete fuckup and they couldn't even give the name the correct designation of F-24.

>I'm not rushing to track down sources for every irrelevant factoid I read on Sup Forums
Yeah, how dumb. How dare I put forward a little meta-commentary about who ought to be doing the legwork.

It's irrelevant because you couldn't take 10 seconds to google it?
You assumed the guy was lying to you just because you don't like his flag or some shit?
What are you, fucking new? This is a board for discussing politics, if you don't like facts, fuck off by facebook and twitter..

Can anyone name a bigger piece of crap than the Osprey?

The A-10 isn't "based" on those prop driven dinosaurs at all. They simply looked at the roles those old aircraft performed and thought about how to make an even better plane that can perform those roles. That isn't basing the A-10 on any of those aircraft.

>what is 30 mm gun
>what is JTAC
>what is AWACS

Honestly we kind of need to keep up with NK I mean look at this shit.

youtube.com/watch?v=fGb0cPp6U-w

he meant the design principles of the A10 were taken from them.

It can fly twice as fast as the Chinook, that alone is pretty important.

F-35 takes "multirole" to an absurd extreme, though: it's a stealth VTOL.

The VTOL aspect affects all models, including the ones not capable of VTOL, due to the requirement for commonality. The overall design is compromised for this specialized capability, which most units won't actually have.

The stealth is extremely costly, greatly increases maintenance and reduces performance, and is only useful when the plane is specially loaded to enable it, with no external fuel tanks or weapon hardpoints. So for most flown missions, it won't be stealthy. Even when it is, it's considerably less stealthy than previous stealth aircraft, at a time when more and more likely adversaries are investing in anti-stealth systems.

Without stealth, it's a poor fighter, especially lacking in top speed, but also with a poor turn radius. It can't dogfight or run from missiles or enemy fighters.

So it's a lame-ass stealth bomber and a lame-ass air-to-air fighter. As a general utility fighter/bomber, it's more expensive, slower, shorter range, and carries smaller payloads than existing airframes.

I'm pretty sure that's the stupidest thing I've ever read. You literally said I was wrong, then described exactly what I meant.
It's almost like you know exactly what I'm talking about, so you clarified it using different words so that you sound like you also know what you are talking about.

Why are you even here? I'm pretty sure you need a High School diploma to post on this board.

>what is 30 mm gun
Doesn't defend you from ground to air threats
>what is JTAC
Ground based observers don't defend you from ground to air threats
>what is AWACS
Doesn't defend you from ground to air threats

WTF are you even trying to say?

it's designed to be used with the f22 you retard.
the f35 does everything the f22 sucked at.

it's also past the "lol nothing works" stage
looks like a solid fighter with orders increasing

Multi-role fighters are at their best when mass produced. You have to have a few dedicated bombers, superiority, attack planes, then mass produce good multi-role planes. You may lose a few, but the versatility they offer far outweighs anything else. Especially the F-35, it's astounding what it can do. It's not as good as what we would have gotten had Lockheed been allowed to design each branch's plane from scratch instead of making them as similar as possible, but it's a damn fine plane.

STFU, I was on the design team for the Me-262. I am a legend.

>actually this stupid
So, how does any OTHER aircraft defend itself? Armor? F35 lacks in that department, severely.

Jammers? A10 carries those

Munitions? A10 Carries a fuckton of those too.

My big concern is the heavy reliance on technology. Not a huge fan of things being fully integrated with buggy ass computers.

Nice DCS screenshot, faggot.

...

>Not a huge fan of things being fully integrated
that's what makes the f35 so dangerous.
it sends a fuck ton of information to everything.
so if you don't get shot down by a f35 or f22, a drone or missile cruiser kills you.

information is KING on the battlefield, and the f35 is basically a god in terms of pure intel.

>(((stealth))) aircraft with fully exposed engine intakes
No, PAKFA is shit. Chinese J-20 is the most threatening thing to western world now and it isn't even as good as F-22.

No, it's irrelevant because it's not relevant. I did not assume it to be false, but some others doubted it and the Wehraboo flipped his shit instead of providing a link. What are you so angry about?
I don't think stealth is as useless as you claim here. In an uncontested environment, sure, you load it up with external stores and that's probably 80%+ of total sorties. But in any conflict it's the early ones that matter most and if the USAF can't thread the needle through modern air defense systems there are wars that it can't win.
Was the design compromised by VTOL? Somewhat, but the fat fuselage also means more internal stores. It's still a 5th generation fighter from a sensors & systems POV and I have no doubt it'll drop the hammer on anything older in an actual fight. That's not a falsifiable claim but look at what happened in 1990 against Russian systems that were supposedly at or near parity with ours - superiority in sensors and comms made the result absolutely decisive.

The results of these exercises are determined by the assumptions that go into their rules. And the assumptions are chosen according to processes which are essentially political.

The F-35 is supposed to be operated for half a century. Its already-weak stealth capabilities will not improve, but anti-stealth technology and tactics will almost certainly get better very quickly.

>not putting a border patrol logo on it

F-35 has a higher payload than A-10 when it's carrying external loads.

inb4 "well then isn't stealth then!
You go in stealth at first with internal payloads to defeat the IADS, then once you have air superiority you can start loading the external racks for CAS and interdiction. That is vs an A-10 that flies half the cruising speed and can't carry as many weapons, and if used in full war the entire A-10 fleet with likely be killed by SAMS by week two against any near peer player.

I'm not trying to argue that Russian aircraft are better than USA aircraft. But most of those Russian craft losses were from shitty 3rd party countries using export versions of the Russian aircraft. For example Iraqi pilots were horrible.

stealth isn't an on and off switch you moron.
an f35 will a full loadout with hardpoints is significantly harder to find than a f16 loaded up.

>Its already-weak stealth capabilities will not improve
>will not improve
it already has improved in several aspects, mostly with a reduced heat signature and RCS from the F135 engine.
nice try

also,They flew f35 over japan without telling them and Japan WAS not able to detect anything.

>for most of its flown missions, it won't be stealthy
Wrong. It doesn't NEED external fuel tanks. It has a higher range without external fuel tanks than the F-16 does WITH them.

>anti-stealth systems
Russian nonsense. The Israeli F-35's have already sneaked past their S-400's in Syria multiple times. Hell, their radars couldn't even warn them that there were 59 Tomahawk missiles inbound. (Also, any radar powerful enough to detect a stealth plane would be even more effective against a non-stealth plane)

>Without stealth, it's a poor fighter
But it has stealth, so what are you complaining about? RCS is far more important in aerial warfare than speed and agility.

>it is considerably less stealthy than previous stealth aircraft
The fuck are you on about? It might be on the same level as the B-2 bomber, but it's a god damn stealthy airplane. It returns as much radar as a hummingbird.

You're right about the STOVL aspect hindering the plane's capabilities, but it's still leaps and bounds better than anything any other country has.

>carries 1000 pounds more payload
>'ZOMG ITS SOO MUCH BETTER'
Who the fuck cares about (((stealth))), its just as vulnerable to ground attack as anything, and the A10 was used all throughout the Afghanistan and iraq wars. and in Libya

WOOOO GETS GO LADS!

>They flew f35 over japan without telling them and Japan WAS not able to detect anything

Because the degenerate jap radar operators were fapping to loli tentacle hentai. What would they need to be looking out for? Easiest job in the world. Is North Korea going to send an air raid to Japan?

Ok Joker but how is that EDI waifu of yours coming along?

Still a Queefy Canadian Eh Buddy Fweind Goy?

At least you got over that Cortana crush fast. Siri drives your rocket ship way faster than those old lunar module processer. Hell you might just make it to Uranus.

>It's still a 5th generation fighter from a sensors & systems POV
When you're talking about a new airframe, you have to defend the airframe itself, not the "sensors & systems", which can be added to older airframes.

>I don't think stealth is as useless as you claim here.
I didn't claim stealth was useless. I was pointing out that the F-35 is not very stealthy at its best, and won't usually be flown in a stealthy configuration, because it costs too much performance and payload.

Stealth is hard, expensive, reduces every other aspect of desirability, and is a primary target of technological development. Effective stealth bombers and fighters will need to stay cutting-edge, keeping ahead of anti-stealth with new models every few years. That means you can't just build stealth into your utility trucks you plan to keep around for decade, you're sacrificing conventional utility and affordability for a special feature that will be obsolete early in their lives.

countries take their airspace very seriously.

>F-35 is not very stealthy at its best
>can fly over a 1st world country without getting detected
>easily fucked f15s in mock battles before f15s could even realize what happened
>Not stealthy

No, it fucking isn't as vulnerable to ground attack. A-10s get ripped apart by AAA and short range IR SAMs that F-35 just flies over. There's also all sorts of jamming equipment not able to be spoken of on here. A-10 was okay in Iraq and Afghanistan, though they had to takeoff with decreased payloads (usually two AGM-65s and 2 GBU-38s or GBU-12s) because of the high density altitude at both locations. If they went against an actual IADS they would be done for in a couple weeks.The US war plan if USSR estimated A-10s would be completely done for trying to defend the Fulda gap within 2 weeks.

>tfw only one A10 aircraft has not been able to RTB and the pilot made it out safely

Shuuutt the fuck up faggot. and who the fuck said anything about russia.

The entire package including the radar and cockpit systems wouldn't exactly be a mere retrofit but I take your point, there were much more conservative evolutions from older airframes that could have incorportated these things.
As far as specific claims about stealth go, it seems a bit pointless to debate without access to classified test data.

Are russian pilots better? Have they gotten any action recently?

US has advantage of not only regularly conducting exercises, but also being in a continuous state of warfare (at enormous taxpayer expense).

Ever since the cost overrun fuck ups, the program office has marched forward. They've learned from huge programs like Aegis and are focusing on getting the software right before the platform is widely fielded. You hear about basic software fuckups in the news, but the things do mesh networking and signals intelligence collection silently and with cross queuing by design.

It's actually not a meme anymore and indeed has a low RCS from certain angles. They went to airshows and basically copied F22 but is bound to happen with China niggers.

so RCS is like 1 part of the stealth puzzle.
the bigger threat these days is IRST

and the entire f35 is one giant heatsink.
not a single hot spot to catch

Nigger, the US started a policy in Desert Storm to stop bringing A-10s to the fight because of the high attrition rate. I mention Russia because our military should be made to take on peers or near peers, not built for fighting goat fuckers. If we wanted a military for bombing goat fuckers we would just have an air force of super tucanos. Thankfully we aren't retarded enough to build a military to bomb 3rd world countries, we just use our modern tech to do the same when we need to.

PAKFA or J-20? PAKFA seems to be a meme now but I will agree that the most recent J-20s are formidable. Not enough J-20Bs to be scary yet though.

The USAF has tends to view their mission as more expansive than just dropping bombs on goat fuckers. They actually game out scenarios against adversaries like Russia and China which leads to decisions like retiring le epic brapplane.

>waste of money

Not for the people that got very rich of this.

Russian pilots probably have much more experience and actual seat time in the aircraft. Not as much as US pilots though. I imagine Iraqi pilots didn't have 10% as many hours in the pilot seat as the American pilots they were facing. Going up against superior pilots in superior aircraft was hopeless.

Oops, meant the J-20 is no longer meme status, at least for their LRIP birds. Also bigger than F22 for whatever strategic mission that would potentially enable.

how many black projects do you guys think this thing funds?

yea it sucks. under powered. cant turn. cant climb. flight characteristics of an elephant.
great electronics.
russian jets will pick them apart when they go rtb.

a few forsure.
the f117 was funded by a fake order for F16s back in the day.,

It's not money laundering, it's grift. They're stealing money from the taxpayers.

it will be alot different than F-22.

They have to get past the F-22s and F-15s first.

YEs, we have nukes

youtube.com/watch?v=Mcf9CLMQuRQ

>It doesn't NEED external fuel tanks. It has a higher range without external fuel tanks than the F-16 does WITH them.
1) That's false. The F-16 with external tanks has nearly double the range of the F-35 on internal fuel.
2) The F-16 has little reason to fly combat missions without external fuel tanks, since it's not stealthy without them.
3) The F-16 is half the size, but can carry a larger payload externally than F-35 can internally, and then it can run away faster and dodge attacks better.

The F-15 is a more reasonable to compare with F-35, since they're similarly-sized planes. The F-15 has plainly higher range, and outrun the F-35 by nearly the speed of sound.

Let me say that again: the F-15 can fly about as much faster than an F-35 as a plane breaking the sound barrier is than a man walking on the ground below. Speed is of extreme importance in aerial combat, for obvious reasons.

>>anti-stealth systems
>Russian nonsense.
pic related, from nearly 20 years ago

>It returns as much radar as a hummingbird.
No, the F-35 has about a basketball-size radar signature. That's plenty for a good system to pick up.

the amount we spend on R&D for the air force is beyond comprehension.

we could be spending some of that money on military hospitals and VA hospitals, but we'd rather spend billions enriching jewish engineers.

t. sprey

>The F-16 with external tanks has nearly double the range of the F-35 on internal fuel.
the F-16 with external tanks has shitty handling characteristics because of the added drag, the F-35 has basically no impediment

>The F-16 has little reason to fly combat missions without external fuel tanks
they drop the externals the moment they get into combat

>since it's not stealthy without them.
since when is the F-16 STEALTHY?

>but can carry a larger payload externally than F-35 can internally
said payload is almost always used for bomb runs, which forces the plane to drop all of it's A2G munitions and switch to permanent A2A the moment it encounters an enemy aircraft. the F-35 can do A2G, switch to A2A, then go back to A2G

>The F-15 is a more reasonable to compare with F-35, since they're similarly-sized planes
is this canadian shitposting? at least say F-15E so you sound slightly less retarded

>Speed is of extreme importance in aerial combat
no, sensors are.

>That's plenty for a good system to pick up.
at 40 fucking nm, at which point any decent IR system is going to be picking you up anyway

oh, and at which point an AMRAAM is on the way

I'm almost for certain that russian aircraft are more sophisticated in the area of dogfights and things around that compared to the F-35s.
But the F-35s have a more technological advanced systems, thus more useful in a wide variety of situations.
> F-35>miscellaneous foreign fighter jet.

>assumption not for certain