I heard the manipulated polls from Spanish pollsters say the no vote will win. Then why are the Spanish so scared? If it is a slam dunk against independence as you say, why not let them vote? A vote shouldn't actually be illegal, as it is not the legal act of secession. Only the Declaration of Independence is actually illegal under the Spanish constitution.
Around 80 percent of Catalans want to have a say in the matter. They want democracy, they don't want big mama Madrid to walz in and confiscate the ballot papers like a little bitch.
Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution, they are morally and under international law not bound by it. You can't make a whole people subject to a foreign crown against their will, this has been established in all the post-ww2 independence movements.
>whole people subject to a foreign crown against their will Tell that to allied occupied illegitimate BRD
Austin James
there's no reason to trust polls.
James Butler
According to Manolo's media you're backing us now. Can you confirm?
Brody Davis
All countries back the centralized Spanish government against the independence movement. Nobody likes independence movements as the elites lose power.
Jason Morgan
There will not be a vote like there will not be a vote for Bavaria independence, or Bretagne independence. Spain is not a matter of democracy.
Lucas Brown
>Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution, they are morally and under international law not bound by it. I don't think you understand how international law works, Hans.
Jordan Ward
Nobody voted on the Spanish constitution retard, the constitution was make by 6 persons and was hide from the public until was finished
Owen Johnson
Guess what, 100 independence movements in the last 70 years, 80 percent of which succeeded, prove me right.
Joshua Murphy
Exactly, thus Catalonians can morally and legally say they want their own constitution and give a shit about what the 6-men-constitution says.
Aiden Williams
>prove me right ... I think you're a bit confused.
Noah Smith
And I have the morally and legally right to claim a ferrari because nobody asked me, prove me I'm right
Ayden Morris
>France >all colonies got independent just as I said Ok then, how can you deny history?
John Perez
>Catalonia >colony Would you happen to be a practitioner of the religion of peace, by any chance ? That would explain the retardation.
Isaiah Sullivan
Spain is a meme country created by a royal marriage centuries ago, even a colony has more ties to its metropolis than Catalonia has to Spain.
Grayson Evans
You go Catalonia! Russia will support you.
Owen Wright
your level of demagogy has increased, pepero friend
Colton Campbell
Why the fuck the world wants to destroy Spain? We are fucking irrelevant, we did nothing wrong.
Jace Bailey
We are the kids that mind their own businesses that end up getting bullied by the bullies that got bullied by the C.O.U. chads.
Wyatt Garcia
You are full of lies. It isn't illegal to hold a nation wide vote, but a regional one is. And fucking catalans voted the constitution. 90% gave the approval.
What to expect from a kraut.
Carter Perez
>A vote shouldn't actually be illegal, as it is not the legal act of secession.
But it actually is! In the Spanish Constitution it especifically says that any kind of referendum must be allowed in Congress and sign by the King to be legal. If you say, like those traitors, that the Constitution doesn't matter in this case... why should we be forced to respect the right to peacefully assembly in Catalonia?
William Barnes
They just want "happenings" I guess
Austin Foster
Fuck off perroflauta
6 of December 1978
Jace Watson
>those traitors. At least 50% of Catalonia's population. Pff.
Cameron White
Citation needed
Also if you think something as important as Independece should be decided on a simple majority you should kill yourself
Even romans talked about hispanic peole like an defined entity (nation)
Michael Parker
but then you get newer, sexier elites! look at post-maidan ukraine
Brayden Perez
50% of Catalonian are traitors.
Adrian Rivera
APOLOGIZE TO HIM.
Carter Campbell
>Mr Rajoy I'm CIA
Ethan Carter
Not a problem, they'll probably return to Manolostan
Luis Wilson
>Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution
I wish Putin would already fuck off.
Carter Hughes
>A vote shouldn't actually be illegal, as it is not the legal act of secession. Only the Declaration of Independence is actually illegal under the Spanish constitution. The catalan goverment aproved the referendum law that makes this independence declaration automatic in case they win the referendum. >Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution, they are morally and under international law not bound by it. They did voted it and aproved it several times(3 if I am not mistaken).
Julian Brown
Ivan you used the wrong image
Ryder Anderson
Here we go again with the "catalans voted for the constitution" meme
>You're gonna be raped. Do you prefer a chinese or a congolese? >A chinese... I guess. >Manolo: "You wanted to be raped by a chinese."
Adrian Roberts
lol sorry, you have no power around here.
Austin Howard
Russia didn't support the good guys. And will suffer the consequences in the long term.
Jaxon Jenkins
we support the good guys only outside of Russia
Nathaniel Lewis
...
Jeremiah Kelly
I like how Russians are scapegoats for everything.
Gabriel Brooks
>spain >portugal >italy god damnit I don't want to keep looking
Elijah Phillips
Separatists are scum.
Ryan Hughes
>Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution >Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution >Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution
Scotland and Quebec voted to remain. Basque Country and Catalonia are being denied the opportunity.
Grayson Edwards
Funny you don't say anything about Northern Ireland.
Asher Cox
>the no vote will win. Nobody knows the actual results, and the polls are being manipulated by both sides. >why not let them vote? A vote shouldn't actually be illegal And it isn't, they are allowed to do referendums if they are not-binding. >as it is not the legal act of secession. Only the Declaration of Independence is actually illegal under the Spanish constitution. That's the problem, they have attached their declaration of independence to the referendum, is a unilateral decision and against the constitution. >They want democracy They have one, nobody is stopping them running for the central goverment, instead the hide in their own corner and demand everybody else to pander to them. >as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution, they are morally and under international law not bound by it. Except they did and, it was the communidad with more aproval for the constitution of 1978, they hav no moral or law to stand on.
Jackson Gray
>Crimea >South Sudan >Kosovo
Luke Young
During the Cold War where both superpowers sought decolonisation (note colony, not integral part of nation) because they wanted easy allies. Since the end of the Cold War though? Former Yugoslavia and South Sudan, how them other movements (Abakhazia, Alania, Artsakh, Somaliland) working out?
Landon Nguyen
>>Crimea Backed by a literal nuclear power >>South Sudan War is still ongoing there so hardly a susseful independence >>Kosovo Backed by a literal nuclear power
Sebastian Baker
Shut up turd.
Adrian Hall
TRAPERO YOU ARE THE FUCKING MAN
Ethan Miller
you would find something to moan about even if a country seceded from the depths of hell to heaven itself
what about a people's right to self-determination as jus cogens?
Joseph Gomez
After 40 years of dictatorship you offer a written not debated constitution vs previous regime. What do you think will happen? They could have writen anything on that constitution that would be better than the previous status.
Christopher Kelly
Because it weakens countries. Germany doesn't want countries with powerful governments. They want one government controlling many small individual states.
Gavin Morris
Don't waste your time he's a separatist.
Brandon Price
Because we are the least controlled by the jews in Western Europe. Why do you think Soros supports the independence? It's because an independent Catalonia would be incredibly easy to control.
Isaac Turner
>We're controlled by people who's controlled by jews, so we're not controlled by jews >t. Manolo
Lincoln Sanders
You are literally one of the 20 people on Sup Forums who shitpost about this garbage. Your shitposts incredibly easy to recognize Jordi Shekelstein
Colton King
>Why do you think Soros supports the independence? All Manolos say that but it is true? Genuine curiosity here post sources if you have them.
Hudson Nguyen
Im going to be controversial here and say that the idiot leftists pushing for the leave vote are going to kerp gaining support.
They claim the right wing government is fascist. That government is cracking down in very authoritarian ways.
Reliable polling suggests that only 40% of people want to leave spain. But a large majority want the reforendum to happen. By cracking down on dissent, the Spanish gubberment is driving the overton window leftwards and generating a lot of anti-government sentiment.
The smart choice would have been to only threaten intervention IF the Catalonian government actually attempts to secede. Don't interfere with the vote itself. But place the clear boundary that your state will not tolerate secession, but may be open to negotion depending on the results of their expensive opinion poll.
Andrew Turner
Open to negotiate what?
Grayson Lewis
Negotiate muh sheckels, the only strong motivation jewtalans have to separate from Spain. They receive massive inversions from central goverment for the industrialization and improvement of their region, now that they are prosperous they want to leave. Ungrateful bastards.
Cooper Price
Leave it open to interpretation. If pressed on the matter talk some shit about possibly altering government spending to syphon less wealth out of the area, some other talking points the seperatist are harping on about.
The goal is to be seen as a reasonable/ agreeable fellow by vocalising that you understand the issues afflicting catalonians. This would tip the vote towards no because people's opinion of you would rise.
You don't need to actually follow through on any of this. The goal is to prevent moderates from radicalising.
Justin Williams
I'm expecting a more interesting answer from the aussie my dear Manolo
Mason Reyes
>The smart choice would have been to only threaten intervention IF the Catalonian government actually attempts to secede. You realize the only reason action was taken is because that's literally the case, right? The Catalan parliament passed a law making the referendum binding, making it an attempt to secede and ignoring the Spanish Constitution. Without such law, it will be just an opinion poll.
Camden Clark
Its because we kicked out all the Jews.
You thought they'd forget?
Jaxson Smith
I only learnt that they bound the secession to the vote after writing that initial response.
The major issue is deradicalising as many moderates as possible. That's why you have to vocally trade little bits and pieces. "You can have the Vote if you decouple secession from the results. We may be able to negotiate more favorable conditions for the area depending on how the reforendum goes. But we will not allow secession."
You can always walk back on those offers afterwards. All you are doing is influencing public opinion in favour of "no" or "its not really a big deal"
Dylan Campbell
The thing is, they already had a referendum 3 years ago.
Isaac Jackson
So? We won it
Aiden Morris
Yes, with 30% of the population voting.
Matthew Clark
It wasn't relevant as you well know Manolo, and still a huge amount of people voted (37%, not 30%)
Hudson Jenkins
How much money fo you make and your profession?
Dominic Rivera
Once again?
Jordan Walker
Is Catalonia the Whitest part of Spain… ??
Evan Ward
>>Also, as Catalans never voted on the Spanish constitution, they are morally and under international law not bound by it. >They did voted it and aproved it several times(3 if I am not mistaken). No, they did not. There was never a referendum about the Spanish constitution in Catalonia.
So how can you now say they can't have an Indy ref because the constitution doesn't allow it?
Hudson Sanders
Sure.
Christopher Parker
General Franco would have sorted them out. You've gone soft Spain.
Jonathan Davis
I totally agree with you, this goverment is making all worse and creating more separatists with their harsh polcy. They could just be open some dialogue with them at least in a bullshit way. I hope we don't get end up with a maidan here.
Matthew Smith
>calling spaniards moors when they expelled them in the reconquista.
You have to go back (()) your 'meme maps' are a joke comie
Jordan Fisher
Then Im 100% in favour of Catalan independence. Austerity is preferable to genetic annihilation.
Wyatt Edwards
Yes, Castilians are the stupid oy vey!
Thomas Rivera
Right now catalan police said they will support catalan referendum. Top Kek. Spain is finished.
Michael Anderson
Thanks for proving that castilian immigrants are dragging down the average of Catalonia.
Jackson Martin
How commie? if Castilla and Leon scores more than you in every single indictor
Aaron Miller
But if you check it's spanish immigrants who bring down the average of Catalonia, but catalans score the highest.
Charles Murphy
>He doesn't know only 5 of those countries pull their weight >He doesn't know a number of those countries sent less than 40 men to Afghanistan or Iraq and think they did "their part" and have the same rights as the major players. >He doesn't know one of those countries(the 2nd largest military power of the alliance) wants to leave and is heading into the Russian sphere of influence with secret deals in Syria for a blitzkrieg of the Kurds when IS is defeated. >He doesn't know nearly all the countries have cut their military budgets and are winding down the idea of foreign interventions. Even Britain has a third world military now thanks to draconic cuts. We don't stand the slightest chance in any conflict with even the Chiefs of General Staff admitting the islands can't be protected and the military has been reduced to a "self defence force" that could be obliterated in a single afternoon due to the unwise choice of putting all our forces in just 4 locations.
NATO is an irrelevant cold war relic and is now nothing more than an American foreign legion. It's a far cry from what the Wehrmacht General that came up with the idea after WW2 wanted. Its aim was to destroy the Soviet Union. The USSR has been dead for 26 years. It's no longer needed and just like the UN. Is utterly useless.
[deep concern intensifies]
Gavin Green
Which way should I vote?
Thomas Campbell
This whole situation has got me thinking, in the future when whites are a minority in our own countries, and we've all white-flighted into one location, will the non-white majorities allow us to separate? Will they allow us to even consider it?
Jaxon Allen
>castellanoparlante
spanishspeaking people is not the same as castillians, those can be inmigrants from latin america or any other part. Your analogy make no sense see:
Hunter Garcia
They're not but actually it's the catalan-speaking group that is full of castilians who speak catalan. Double the gap to know the real difference between ethnic catalans and ethnic castilians.
Mason Brooks
You are in delusion commie. How can you compare a region with a national average? when you analyze region by region it's a castillian region that scores higher, much higher than you, a castillian region. how can you say it's the castillians that bring down catalonian avr, if they score more than you lmao, use your brain. And i seriously belive the sd deviation is not big.
Henry Jackson
AYYYYYYYYYYYYYO
Isaiah Barnes
>meme flag of cuckdegenerate
First Catalonia, then Euskadi
Easton King
Made this pepe some minutes ago Thoughts?
Robert Sanders
>Basque Country >BTFO
You don't really believe that, do you?
If anything, they proved that violence is the only way to negotiate with you.
Julian Phillips
Wonder bouquet. Lovely vintage.
Nathaniel Miller
You're a subhuman who doesn't know what he's talking about. Millions of poor castilian immigrants came here and they're the ones who bring the average of Catalonia down, that's why the spanish speakers (castilian immigrants) score so low compared to catalan speakers (native catalans).