How can you prevent capitalism without a state?

How can you prevent capitalism without a state?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property
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Capitalism requires a state to be maintained. Who is going to defend millions of acres of private property if not the police?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

Private property =/= personal property.

The owners of private property cannot defend it themselves. The most prominent CEOs live miles and miles away from it in most cases, and almost never, if ever, set food on it. 99% of Sup Forums doesn't own private property (places you would employ people to maintain.)

Anarchism posits that without the government, private property would collapse to common ownership.

*set foot

Private property and personal property are definitely the same thing.

You defend private property with guns, be it hired or by yourself.

>Who is going to defend millions of acres of private property if no the police?

If someone can afford to purchase millions of acres of private private property, they can afford to hire defense contracting services along with infrastructure like fences, walls, cameras, etc.

>Private Property ≠ Personal Property

Read that wikipedia article again bruv.

>Private property is a legal designation for the ownership of property by non-governmental legal entities.

And when you go the article which defines a legal entity:

>A legal person (in legal contexts often simply person, less ambiguously legal entity)[1][2] is any human or non-human entity, in other words, any human being, firm, or government agency that is recognized as having legal rights and obligations, such as having the ability to enter into contracts, to sue, and to be sued.

According to your own sources, Private Property = Personal Property.

No, private property exists to generate profit and is not used by its owner. This describes industrial farms, factories, etc. Communists don't want your toothbrush, your dog, your house, or your yard.
The average farm size is 434 acres. This is impossible to patrol and defend yourself. Even if you hire a small amount of guards. You need a complex militia, a secure border, and every other characteristic of a "state." Anarchists believe that ancaps simply want to create their own miniature states, which contradicts the whole purpose of anarchism.

>reddit spacing

>If someone can afford to purchase millions of acres of private private property, they can afford to hire defense contracting services along with infrastructure like fences, walls, cameras, etc.
That "someone" is no different from the state. They are at the point where they can be a tyrant and ruler. Anarchism is the dissolution of hierarchy.
>Read that wikipedia article again bruv.
>>Private property is further distinguished from personal property, which refers to property for personal use and consumption. Private property is a legal concept defined and enforced by a country's political system.

The world's total land mass consists of 36.8 billion acres of inhabitable land.

An incredible 21 percent of this land is owned by a short list of landowners, according to The New Statesman.

By being niggers

Yes I'll like to hear your thoughts about currency, how does currency in an anarchist society work?

>I'll build a business!
No problem if that business allows any workers to own the profit generated from their own labor.
>>I'll hire armed thugs to patrol a massive space, preventing anyone else from accessing a large pool of resources I'm not personally using. I won't let anyone else access these resources, especially if they're starving for them, unless they agree to become my subordinates. I have an inherent "God-given" right to these resources because I secured them through a long line of inheritance that eventually goes back to a violent encounter.
Anarchists would have a problem with that.

By changing the name of the state to something else like community or association.

I'm not an anarchist. I just find it annoying that Sup Forums doesn't understand its very basics.

>How can you prevent capitalism without a state?

You can't, It has never been done. Without force you cannot implement socialism because it is so inefficient.

>This is impossible to patrol and defend yourself.
Ever hear "an armed society is a polite society"? People stay off your property in fear of being shot. It's that simple. If someone decides to get a bunch of people together to take your property by force then it's in your best interest to hire a fighting force to defend it. Then if you win then hopefully people won't try to take your lands anymore, again, in fear of being shot.

How come children get the idea of ownership and commies don't?

>Private property =/= personal property.
literal retard

If you can assert yourself over something with your own force, it's personal. You're present and can say you're "using it" in a way that has meaning.

Being miles away from things you may never visit in your life but still "owning" them because invisible reasons is where things break down for anarchists.

You can't, which is one of many reasons that commies are mentally ill.

The point is, take away the police and the military, and big business owners would be scrambling to figure out how to maintain their stronghold over millions of acres of land, hundreds of factories they have never set foot in, and access to resources. Anarchists think this is the best path to communal ownership, knock down capitalism's defense field.

So can you visit it once "assert your force" and walk away for ever? How many times a month do you need to visit it to be yours? How far away can you be before it it no longer yours?

I don't actually care about your answers for these because they will all be arbitrary shit that you pull out of your ass

If there's no police or military, there's no one to stop them from killing you chimps en masse.

I think I just became an anarchist.

Yes but somehow every person can own a peice of each other.

I remember a stupid commie like you defending the burning of cars in riots because the owner is not there to defend it. Pls stop being a retard.

In political/economic theory, notably socialist, Marxist, and most anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important. Which items of property constitute which is open to debate. In some philosophies, such as capitalism, private and personal property are considered to be exactly equivalent.

Personal property includes "items intended for personal use" (e.g., clothes, homes, and vehicles, and sometimes money). It must be gained in a socially fair manner, and the owner has a distributive right to exclude others.
Private property is a social relationship between the owner and persons deprived (not a relationship between person and thing), e.g., artifacts, factories, mines, dams, infrastructure, natural vegetation, mountains, deserts, seas, etc. Marxism holds that a process of class conflict and revolutionary struggle could result in victory for the proletariat and the establishment of a communist society in which private property and ownership is abolished over time and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community. (Private property and ownership, in this context, means ownership of the means of production, not personal possessions).
To many socialists, the term private property refers to capital or the means of production, while personal property refers to consumer and non-capital goods and services.

What if you have a barn on your property a hundred or so yards away from your home. If you're not currently "using it" does that make it not your property?

>take away military and bolis
>business owners hire private militias to guard their land

You can't, any voluntary transaction between anyone is capitalism.

Means of production is such a retard term. I use my body for producing items, or my car to transport them so are they forfeit now? Sounds like a bunch a shit where the government gets to decide what they want is personal or private property and take what they want.

>without law and order, only might makes right and evil prevails
big business owners would just pay someone like me to kill you on sight.

how can you HAVE capitalism without a state?

>A has X, wants Y
>B has Y, wants X
>'hey, wanna trade'

What's the state's part here?

How can you have currency and value without a state? Ancaps, respond this

>what is gold

Ancaps are just retarded people LARPing as CEO. How there will be public property then? How can I leave my house without violating someone's NAP if no public roads? Private ones with tolls?

So you believe giving a point gains ancaps is a good defense for ancom? Lmao

How can you be sure somebody's not getting ripped off in the process without any regulating institution?
See cancer industry, actually curing cancer in a capitalist society would not generate any income any more for said industry therefore it's in it's own interest to keep cancer around through all means possible.

Here's how it actually works:

>A has X, Y and Z
>B has nothing, wants Y
>"hey, wanna work your entire life for tiny pieces of Y while I sit on my ass and watch?"

If they have a mutual agreement, no one is getting ripped off. Both parties know exactly what to expect in their trade agreement. Goods and services do not have an objective value, only a subjective one.

What will give value to the gold? How will you force me to use that? I was waiting for that retarded reply. Gold has no value, only because we give it one.

>What is platinum?

>what is private propiety, why would it need to be defended and recognized by state
WEW

>Anarchism is the dissolution of hierarchy.

According to Merriam-Webster:

>Anarchism is a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups.

There is nothing here which states that hierarchy in any form cannot exist outside the realm of a state.

>>Read that wikipedia article again bruv.

>"In Marxist literature . . ."

You're using an arbitrary Marxist distinction of private property and personal property. I say arbitrary because land ownership has long been seen as a form of personal property.

>Anarchists would have a problem with that.

And so long as McLandlord is minding his own business, there's no reason for the AnCommune to care.

You can't. That's why anarchism is retarded. Same with anarcho-capitalism, how can you prevent if corporations act like government?

> Preventing capitalism
Let what must, happen. When the beast of man rears it's ugly head, all the greed and elitism, common men will be ready to bloody themselves.

>"What if the child consents though?"

It doesn't answer my question, consent is manufacturable, humans are machines that can be manipulated or pressured by other external factors therefore consent is this situation is not a "safeguard".

Works the same in diplomacy, China consented to get ripped off by western powers to cite one historical example.

>Gold has no value, only because we give it one
Wow it's almost like that's exactly why gold has value and has has value for as long as mankind has discovered it.

The NAP is gay desu
The west would not exist if we followed by it.

>"What if the child consents though?"
What if it does?
>consent is manufacturable, humans are machines that can be manipulated or pressured by other external factors therefore consent is this situation is not a "safeguard".
Perhaps if you weren't an ignorant tool you wouldn't be so susceptible to manufactured consent. That's your dilemma though, not mine. Read a book or two loser.
>China consented to get ripped off by western powers to cite one historical example.
They should have negotiated better then :^)

The famous "information assimetry argument": since information asymmetry is part of markets, we need a state to regulate the market. You're forgetting that the state is no guarantee of information symmetry, and that private institutions that promote such symmetry can and do exist.

Regarding the cancer thing, I see no reason why free markets can't provide very expensive cancer cures that provide the same profit as cancer treatments that are paid by a patient during the rest of his days.

Why would someone sign a contract unless both sides are in mutual benefit ad a result of the contract.

As I said, because we give it one. It was seen as a luxury item and for coins due to its rarity. Want to use minerals? Use platinum. If no one wants to use gold as a currency, it is worthless then

The 'sit on my ass and watch' is actually 'I assume the risk of the business and pay you for your labor regardless of how much we sell; I also exchange your labor, which is a future good, for money, which is a present good that you can use to buy other things you want'

Of course, this is something neither you nor your pal Marx would understand

>How can you prevent capitalism without a state?
You could light all accumulated capital on fire. I guess you would need to accumulate a little capital to be able to create fire though, and to feed yourself during your quest.

It's as is value was subjective or something

This is not advice. It's a hypothetical.

Plenty of retired military highly willing to be ceo's hired guns...

Plus if we're talking full anarchism there's nothing to prevent those "evil capitalists" from acquiring your resources forcefully with said hired guns. You really haven't thought this through, have you?

Well, it would be a start if we stopped pretending it's fine for one company to be a protection racket.

>Capitalism requires a state to be maintained.
>This is what commies actually believe.

And as I said, it's why it has value, and has always had value. It basically has the same function as paper money; it's a placeholder for actually valuable things. Except instead of a singular government giving value to the currency, almost all of mankind decided "hey, this shiny yellow rock is valuable."

>No problem if that business allows any workers to own the profit generated from their own labor.
>According to commies if you hire a kid to shovel your driveway in the winter for $5 he is entitled to the money and also then owns your driveway.
Your profit is the wages you agreed to, if you want to be paid in company ownership request to be paid in company shares or work at a co-op

Except that as soon as a cure is released, nobody buys the treatment over time, so those companies go out of business and the cure company makes boatloads of money. Pretty basic stuff dude

Which can be discarded and replaced anytime. You have gold, I want diamonds and platinum, I don't handle gold. Your gold worth nothing to me, no trading then and yet could be worth billions and make you rich in the system that you are in. Water however and food and really valuable since they are needed, you have no biological need for gold except if gold helps you to fulfill your needs such as eating and drinking properly

Capitalism is inevitable with a more.
advanced civilization. The best recent example were the northeastern injuns. They were collectivists without even a concept of private property.

Not sagehiding

Oh I see, you're conflating "value" and "worth".

Maybe, my point is gold as a standard can be dscarded and people using it get fucked.

That is extremely unlikely, but even if it happened, so what?

You're right, but gold is still a standard to this day after thousands and thousands of years, because we as humans let it. It would take something hugely drastic for gold to lose its value.

Capitalism is another word for how shit works naturally

>Who is going to defend millions of acres of private property if not the police?
Militias, PMC's, robotic death squads, and the owner.

>common ownership
We'll see about that when the state collapses, my property.

>Who is going to defend millions of acres of private property

private citizens with guns

Well, a leftist would say capitalism is maintained by the state. The state is an instrument of class conflict. No class conflict = no state.

So there will always be a state.