Is money really necessary for a functioning society? Money seems strange to me, because it is objectively worth nothing (you can't do anything with it, aside from spending it), it only has value because we assign it value. So why do we give it value? It seems with money, it opens the doors for governments to manipulate the currency value at will. Why not cut out the middle man (money) and just trade goods and services?
I know I probably sound really stupid...But, why is money necessary?
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>But, why is money necessary?
it is a convenient medium of exchange. it is essentially a voucher.
Of course, how else would you control the life of goyim?
The middle man is essential when people have specialized into doing things that have little to no intrinsic value to certain individuals. For example, let's say you want to trade for some food, but you are a pilot. The farmer has less of an immediate need for your services then you have for his and therefore you won't get a consistent supply of food. You could barter your services elsewhere and build up a mass of other goods with which to exchange to the farmer, but that is inherently a waste of time tracking down the people who have the goods you need and want the goods you have. The efficient alternative is to have a few items with an agreed upon value that everyone is willing to accept, hence money. Of course all the fuckery that comes from usury, international trade, wallstreet and the federal reserve makes the system a lot less straightforward.
To maintain a modern society based solely on the exchange of goods and services. Would require the construction of a massive and highly complex social network that would act as the new Exchange. Think of it as Facebook on steroids. I don't believe we are technologically advanced enough yet to make that work
Money is a quantified, standardized measure of a person's ability to influence the world around them. You work or otherwise "convince" society that you have earned a quantity or influence, which you can then use to sustain yourself and/or exert your own will upon the world.
Trading works on small scales but is not viable for large economies.
It's been made to make sure you pay tax.
Not everybody wants your good or service, what makes money convenient is that you can use it however you like. Paper money is indeed outdated and can be manipulated by the central banks, you should do some research into cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum they will be the future. Check out /biz/.
the Real Truth About Money
youtu.be
...
this desu
Money is necessary for our enslavement. Millions of people produce goods and services, and must accept green paper in return. The green paper is a medium of exchange, controlled by the government. It is used to give your valuable stuff to others, and by controlling the amount of currency, it can make your wealth as high or low as it pleases, and take as much as it wants for itself.
Because goats, cows, chickens, and gold bars dont fit in my wallet you stupid fuck
Miracleman would do away with it
(Checked)
/thread
Hidden camera inside the US Federal Reserve
You're an idiot yourself. You could simply made a ledger with goods instead of money, and use technology (computer terminal, or smartphone) to update that ledger in real time. You wouldn't have to physically exchange goods until one side demands it.
>So why do we give it value?
i can give it to other people to do shit i'd rather no
>the literal way jews escaped with tons of cash during the great recession
>value assets on book value to determine take-home pay
>after check cashes, book losses after realizing market value
Okay, take a seat. Also, english is not my mother tongue, so go to be asspie in r9k.
Premise.
>You are very good hunting
>Every day you go hunting, you bring 2 bisons
>It takes you 3 days to do new hunting spears, bows and arrows. They are normal.
>There is this guy, who makes perfect weapons in a day, He can't hunt for shit
>There is that another dude who brings salt from a 20 day travel from the sea. Salted meat lasts longer so meat doesn't go rotten
Need
>To trade efficiently between those people
Solution
>To equal a man hour of work in some "physical metaphor", like a sea shell
>Negotiate in terms like "no i won't pay you a shell for that shit, that's worth half hour".
Failure of the system
>Durr i found all these shells
Solution
>I made an exclusive piece of art so complex that nobody can make another similar. Let's make it a "coin" with metal.
Your welcome.
well good luck having fortune without a ledger, faggot.
It's the usury and all sotrs of ponzi schemes jews use to make fortunes, not the ledger itself, you idiot.
money is the medium of the ledger
btw the toilet's clogged
>money is the medium of the ledger
read the whole fucking thing i wrote, faggot.
Money is just a representation of wealth. Its made of paper because its easier to carry.
Its needed because we live in a world of scarcity. It represents nothing by itself because its value is determined by nations on a matter of thrust but since the alternative would be even more retarded (carrying several Kilograms of gold or just exchanging diferent goods) we dont have much of a choice.
>representative money is just a big fucking gold rush where those who get it first are rich and plebs get utterly fucked, with no flexibility whatsoever
if you were trading goods and services you would not be able to save wealth at the rate you would be able to with currency. With currency it allows your entire wealth to be liquidized without you being poor. You can trade currency instead of your liquid wealth so that you don't lose anything you have purchased while still being able to trade. For example instead of trading your car for a house you can keep your car and trade money and have the house also. you have no monetary wealth but you have liquid wealth because your items are worth value that you can resell if you want to for monetary wealth once again. the only problem we have is credit which adds another middle man saying you can trade liquid wealth for monetary wealth for another liquid wealth that doesnt exist but represents an amount of monetary wealth you will receive later.
Money is a social construct.
But what if the computer guy doesn't need anymore goats? How are we all getting these computers?
MONEY: Eliminates the need to store goods (eg. grain) to trade with someone. Eliminates the need to transport goods to trade with someone. Eliminates the need to manufacture perishable goods in excess trade/transport loss. STORES VALUE imperfectly. Allows a society to scale.
Its got problems. So does everything and everyone else. Its good enough.
Anons who say otherwise live in fairyland.
Money is a social neurotransmitter. It predates history. Every human society uses it, because it is essential to human societies.
Money is how you get other people to do things that they don't want to do. It's similar to dopamine, "the reward neurotransmitter."
Think about all of the things you buy in a day, now imagine trying to get people to do it without money.
'
>Grow tobacco, shred it, dry it, and roll it into a cigarette for me
>Raise a cow, milk it, carefully cultivate that into cheese, kill the cow, cut it into pieces, grind some of it into a patty, grow wheat, grind it into a powder, raise chickens, take their eggs, mix it with the powder, bake it into a bun, grow some lettuce and tomatoes, slice them, and give me a hamburger
>Extract oil from the ground, refine it into a highly flammable gas, and pump it into my car
Why would anyone do ALL that for another person? How would you ever convince someone to do all of that without enslaving them?
You break the task into smaller steps. You give people money to do them. They agree because they can use that money to make other people do things for them. This is essentially an instinctive behavior for us.
You can argue about bartering, but that's just a less efficient kind of money, one that can't be fractionalized into convenient, equally valuable amounts.
You can argue about communism, but in practice that just turns labor into money and restricts control to a ruling class, much like feudalism, which originated during a centuries long liquidity crisis (read: money (gold and silver) shortage).
You can argue about post-scarcity star trek-like utopias, but we don't have the robots for that yet. And robots will just be unintelligent slaves working for a society that serves as their ruling class.
Scissors aren't necessary OP. You can just pull your hair out.
Watch this OP
>Imperishable way to preserve labor value
What's not to get?
Some form of convenient medium for trade will always be required in an advanced society.
That being said perhaps not forever. I'm sure a time will come in our evolution where currency is no longer required and people simply work for their own satisfaction. Though we are still a long time away from humans become that developed and it should not even be attempted right now or things will be worse than before.
That's just money backed by goods. It's no different than a gold or silver standard.
Fiat currencies have their problems, perpetual inflation being the most obvious. But goods-backed currencies are vulnerable to market manipulation, oversupply, overdemand, etc. etc. It's bad enough that with fiat currencies you have businesses go under because the market is flooded by a cheap import, do you want an economy where everyone goes bankrupt just because their chickens are now relatively worthless?
Think things through.
>work for their own satisfaction.
how's that going for you, neet?
please explain more about the liquidity crisis that facilitated feudalism
where would someone read more about this specific time as it pertains to society, money, etc.
I never said that would have any advantage over money. Just pointing out trading goods/services without money would be possible, and just that.
It would definitelly have many disadvantages, but you wouldn't have to carry chickens in your wallet like this idiot thinks
Its not. I'm at work at the moment and basically hate the job.
As I said its still a long time away if we even get to that point. I was thinking perhaps a time when most jobs are done by robots and those robots can repair themselves and so on. Though I'm sure well find a whole new batch of problems to deal with at that time.
For the Roman policies that led to feudalism I'd recommend
>amazon.com
For the transition from Roman manorialism and its variants in the former Western Empire I'd recommend:
>amazon.com
You said it wouldn't be money. What you are describing is money. It is exactly like the gold standard, but less stable and more prone to having the security demanded, which tends to collapse the exchanges, in case you didn't know.
> Be me.
> Have timber.
> Someone offers me chickens for my timber.
> Fuck that. I want pork.
> Pig farmer doesn't want chickens nor timber.
> Fuck. If only we had something that we all wanted.
No.
Try harder.
I think Gold and Jewels are more worthless. Money is worth a lot as an easily divisible medium of exchange.
I work in electronics repair.
You, I and 3 generations before us won't see a robot taking a job.
Neither creating electronics.
Neither shitposting.
Stop blaming on the jew and find a job that you love.
>ps I love mine
>Try harder.
I will if I see the point.
Money is an extension of the barter system. Instead of trading something you made for something someone else made, you trade a percentage of something you made for something someone else made.
Money used to be backed by gold because gold had intrinsic value. Gold doesn't rust, it can be molded into anything, it's light, rare, and easy to spot forgery. It's the perfect barter material. People want gold for purposes other than currency too.
Now money is backed by labor. When you take out a loan you promise to perform labor for people in the future to pay it back.
Our current system is superior because it means people can still get loans even rich people aren't in a mood to lend money.
Inflation also forces the rich to invest in something. With a gold backed system money becomes more valuable the longer you hold on to it (just like bitcoins). With inflation if you don't put your money to work it just evaporates.
In response I play Boomerang. Return commie to your hand.
I am glad to hear you have a career you enjoy. Not many in life get that chance.
Right now I just enjoy travelling and odd jobs are a means to an end to accomplish this without being tied to one particular location.
I hope one day I will find satisfaction as you have but I also hope its not too soon as my satisfaction at the moment comes from my freedom.
Take care mate.
>gold is light
OK Einstein
It's an IOU
But how to control the masses without money?
Lighter than carrying around a useful amount of wheat.
A lot of great, informative replies in this thread. So I definitely understand we need a convenient medium of exchange, because we have specialized roles and we trading goods/services directly just isn't feasible. However, I still don't get why this means we need our modern system of money, when instead we can have more of a "ledger" system, i.e. this ledger is good for two cows. It still seems like with the money we have today, we are assigning value to something with no value.
Let's say you're a software engineer who want to acquire a couple of chairs for your home. You go visit the local chair-smith and ask him for some chairs. Obviously he wants something in return.
All you can really offer him is software since that's the only skill you have. You could also maybe provide some manual labor for him or offer him some of the goods that you have stored at your house. If he's not interested in any of these you're screwed.
Let's say the chair-smith wants some meat to store in his freezer for the upcoming winter. He'll make you some chairs if you can get him some meat.
You go to the butcher and ask to trade for some meat. Now you have the exact same problem as with the chair-smith. Eventually you and him agree on something you can offer him, and so you go off and try to acquire whatever item it is that he wants.
You end up spending hours if not days getting all of the various trades set up so that you can get some fucking chairs. This isn't even really possible since you have a job, so you're kind of shit out of luck from the beginning unless you spend an entire weekend sorting this out.
Having an object that represents stored value (money) solves this problem since you can just give the chair-smith money and he can trade that money with whoever else he wants to to get whatever other goods or services he needs (good and service that you can't directly provide him).
So basically,
> Why not cut out the middle man (money) and just trade goods and services?
Because that's incredibly inefficient and it's very unlikely that you would actually have the goods and services that the person you're trading with would want.
And btw, the USD isn't money it's currency, there's a difference but it's not really worth going into right now.
pic unrelated
Money isn't backed by labor, it's backed by more debt. If money were backed by labor it wouldn't be holding onto its strength in spite of the gutting of manufacturing and the rising welfare state. The only thing keeping the house of cards together is the American military crushing any leader that dares to point out the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
Money is a ledger. The amount of goods and services you have provided to other people is represented by the amount of money in your pocket or bank accounts. That's your ledger.
Money is backed by labor. A promise of labor. Every dollar you borrow required you to sign a piece of paper that says you will perform labor in the future.
Every dollar you have that wasn't from a loan was by performing labor for another person.
I'm not tied, and my jobs haven't never been exactly the same, but each one of them makes me better worker, and I never (for now) had taken a job worse than the last.
I'm europoor, just for the sake of knowing, what's your ratio of:
>salary
>money for house and house accessories (electricity, internet etc)
>meals, groceries etc
>savings?
pic related about the creation of money and the banking system
You're basically saying you want to return to the gold standard. I don't really know enough about that argument to help you out, but if you google it I'm sure you'll find some information.
Our current system is obviously not ideal, but I've heard there are some growth related issues to the gold-standard. Look up a company called goldmoney though if that's your thing. You can literally convert all your savings to the gold standard yourself and still be able to spend it freely.
i wonder who designed that logo
fucking masons
you grab'em by the pussy
Trade is supposed to be the fundamental form of currency. Problem is what happens when you don't need to trade. Money is the thing that can help you retain some value when you have nothing left to trade. Money is convenient and fast and easy to use. This IS why so many people try to corrupt it.
...
If there was no money, everyone would realize that every single person on Earth has more than enough resources to live a perfectly happy life.
But to rule over the people, you have to introduce artificial scarcity, bullshit justifications for stealing, and slavery in form of perpetual debt.
Because the alternative is extremely inefficient. In order to trade you need a coincidence of wants. Both of you want something the other has at the same time.
If this thing is money than its super easy, you both want money and can denominate everything in money. If you are dealing with the alternative, barter, then you can only trade if you have the particular goods you are both looking for.
No its not necessary, you could just trade blowjobs for all the things you need. For instance, one piece of fruit would cost you one blowjob. Or a case of beer would also cost you one blowjob. Larger items like a car would cost you MANY blowjobs. And a house would cost you so many blowjobs that you would basically be sucking dick for the rest of your life, so theres no point in buying it because you aren't going to spend much time there anyway.
You should probably just sleep in your car, and spend the rest of your time on this planet driving around sucking dick for fruit and vegetables.
makes commerce much easier. if you need something, but dont have what whoever has what you need wants in trade, you give him currency. saves everyone a bunch of time
it's a voucher of trust. our economy is almost entirety based on trust that we aren't fucking each other over.
Because ooga booga I wont help you unless I get something back.
We could always barter though.
if you want to learn about the basics of our monetary and banking system, then yes. if you also want to know about the real reason behind iraq and libya, then even more so. if you want to remain ignorant ignore it.
its already pretty short and simplified.
All this bullshit wouldn't matter at all if people lived in communities of a manageable size. If they did, the butcher would butcher all the meat for everyone, the carpenter would make all the furniture for everyone, the hunters would hunt all the animals for everyone, and so on, to better the community.
No, every loan signed is a promise to pay the debt back with currency at an interest. The bank doesn't give a shit how you get the money as long as you can get it. Labor is just the only way most people can make money so it's the only thing us plebs can point to when trying barter to get a loan, that was true even when precious metals backed our money. When it comes to banks loaning money to each other or to the government the payment is never negotiated as a "promise to do labor"
>we can have more of a "ledger" system
That's called a wallet and bank account.
>source: zeitgeist documentary
/thread
you know, you could just move out into the woods with some of your buddies and trade carpentry for meat and/or furniture with eachother.
you guys do have these sorts of useful skills, right?
>With a gold backed system money becomes more valuable the longer you hold on to it (just like bitcoins). With inflation if you don't put your money to work it just evaporates.
Why do people still have so little knowledge of how economies work? I mean, just at a glance you can tell the quoted statement is bullshit because you can hoard gold instead of fiat dollars and actually benefit from inflation.
read just a bit further where i also cited another source which happened to tell the same which even is written there for people complaining about the video as source. you could also look up the creation of money through government bonds and fractional reserve yourself alternatively and find it will be what written in there
See
When you have your money backed by material, then the value of your money shifts with the value of that material.
The reason the world shifted to fiat currencies is that there isn't enough gold in the world for the size of our economy.
You used to be able to exchange your dollars for gold. If we still had the gold standard, then you could cash out a dollar for 0.024 grams of gold.
You have the same problem with any other type of material to secure your currency with. Remember when there was a drought a few years ago and ranchers killed off a bunch of their cattle, which raised beef prices? The rest of the economy was largely unaffected. If cattle backed the dollar, then the dollar would have been worth less because of the drought, making everything more expensive, not just beef.
$950 AUD a week
$220 a week rent
Groceries around 100 a week, I work in a restaurant so I mainly eat there.
WiFi, bills etc maybe 80 a month
Savings at moment $6400 and another $1300 coming back from my tax's. . Saving for trip holiday to turkey and Korea.
No, you couldn't, because you would have to "legalize" all these "transactions" within the state framework, which means a shitload of bureaucracy, fees, taxes, permits, regulations, and so on.
>which happened to tell the same
aka
>they told me many times zeitgeist was a 15yo meme that I looked the same shit written instead of narrated.
Yes kiddo the system is rotten, but it's not fault of the monetary system. You have the same system in germany, on norway, on china, on japan, on fucking nigeria. It's the politicians and the people in the shadows who manage them, retard,
Neo-feudalism is getting more and more popular.
Don't forget that barter systems are much, much less fair than monetary systems.
>The chairsmith thinks each chair is worth a software and a half
>The software engineer pays with two pieces of software per chair.
>objectively worth nothing
What is objectively worth something? What do you think you're asking about?
>it only has value because we assign it value
How else do things have value?
>why not cut the middle man out...
Money is not just a veil for a barter system. You very rarely have what the person who has something you want wants, and even when you do, you rarely have it at the moment when they want it (or when you want what they have). Money is a unit for measuring/signifying social credit and social debt.
I meant how much you save, median, in a month
Also
1250€/month salary
300€/month rent
about 300€/month food (I'm a lazy fuck and eat a lot outside)
60€/month bills
May look few money, but I can eat quality shit and have a confy life. Though it sucks not being able to save more.
fukc monwy we neesd comunism! comius unite! i fuckibg hate that o have to pay for evrything when stulid fuckong welfate monkies take ny fuxking mo ey thaf i work hard for wbut the yarebt worming hard for it
sorry typed this on my phone xDDDD
>Is money really necessary for a functioning society?
Yes.
>Money seems strange to me, because it is objectively worth nothing (you can't do anything with it, aside from spending it), it only has value because we assign it value.
All value is intersubjective, but valuing money is pathological.
>So why do we give it value?
We shouldn't. Money is an abstract representation of things that we actually value meant to solve the problem that individuals in a society do not generally value things the same way, so instead of trying to negotiate things that are directly valued, we exchange things for money.
>It seems with money, it opens the doors for governments to manipulate the currency value at will.
True, it has this problem. But it's important to consider what the alternative is supposed to be, and whether there are worse problems with that alternative.
>Why not cut out the middle man (money) and just trade goods and services?
The transaction costs are very high for bartering. But plenty of people still barter on a day-to-day level, there's nothing wrong with it if the transaction costs are low enough.
ZOG usury system covers the whole earth and inflates currency across the entire planet, leading to the highest prices for staples and shelter in centuries despite the modern era having the highest productivity ever recorded
>monetary system has nothing to do with it
again, look it up at a source of your choice.
en.wikipedia.org
>Contrary to popular belief, money creation in a modern economy does not directly involve the manufacturing of new physical money, such as paper currency or metal coins. Instead, when the central bank expands the money supply through open market operations (e.g., by purchasing government bonds or commercial bank assets), it credits the accounts that the government or commercial banks hold at the central bank (termed high-powered money). Governments or commercial banks may draw on these accounts to withdraw physical money from the central bank.
pretty much the same
alternatively you could read "modern money mechanics" which is from the FED itself which should state the same, but since you are already too much of a lazy piece of shit for that pic you wont read through that either
Every month is different. On average I try and save 1200 a month sometimes more sometimes left depending on events. And then when my next trip is coming up I save closer to 2500 a month.
I have a comfy life and the food where I work is good I'm just in terms of work satisfaction I'm not happy.
I have a useless degree though (bachelor or humanities, Ancient History) I wanted to be Indiana Jones as a kid. Hence trip to Turkey, more work in field and connections there. Probably make less money but overall more satisfied.
Not exactly, human tribes were mean you had to pay in some way to get service. For example if you are a man and you dont hunt for food GIBS ME YOUR FEMALE FRIEND for food or die. If your a woman open those legs or die. If you wanted a mudhut you bettee give the builder something good or you sleep in dirt.
Watch the movie "They Live".
So you quote something which says "if a central bank creates 1000 million, doesn't print/coin 1000 million necessary, but it can credit their bank account with it" and you call it the same of your 101 demagogic bank jewing scheme pic?
Go grow some reading comprehension and IQ to Sup Forums, then come back.
With exchange rate I make 3500 euro a month
Rent is 590 euro a month
Groceries and bills around 300 euro a month
And savings are 800 euro a month
Youre getting screwed mate. Come Australia.
I'm just kitchen hand on casual rate of 17 euro an hour.
What do you have to get what you need from me?
dayum mang, I had thought many times to go of cultural enrichment travel with my polish gf to your cunt for a living, and you're growing my conqueror desires even more
Is it difficult to enter your cunt and have a decent job? I know you're not stupid as us and actually don't let disgusting foreigners to work without a closed job, but I don't know shit about the real life here
