Fate holds many questions...

Fate holds many questions, but one has interested me for a long time: What if Tokiomi decided to send Rin to the Matou instead of Sakura?

One simple change that sets off a cascade. Does Rin break under the Wormpit onslaught? What happens to Sakura? Rin would never let Shinji abuse her, so how badly does he suffer under her? And how does Shirou fare caught between them?

And that’s all before the Holy Grail War begins. Does Sakura summon Archer? Does Rin summon Rider? What would those servant pair-ups be like? How does UBW fare with Tohsaka Sakura? How does HF fare with Matou Rin?

All questions people here are far more qualified to answer.

>Does Rin break under the Wormpit onslaught?

Yes

After HF we get this.

So Rin is the one who rape Shinji?

That is kinda Shinji dream.

So wait, which routes become which? Is UBW still Rin getting with Shirou, for instance, or does the whole thing switch?

I'd presume UBW has Tohsaka Sakura getting with Shirou, while HF would have Matou Rin.

FH/A is basically his happy ever after. Freedom from the Matou name, while still being dominated and slapped around silly.

Then both routes will get drastical improve.

...

Would Nasu be forced to write a femdom scene if Matou Rin was a thing?

Definitely.

Who would she Dom?

Shirou

Seiba

Sakura

Secret Luvia scene

Zouken.

Zouken saw Sakura as a submissive servant. What would Matou Rin be to him? He could never dom her as hard.

the Red Devil would be using her turboenhanced carnal nature to control most of the school through orgasms. Only Shirou and Issei would be free of her wicked grasp.

Also Shinij got raped so often that he got PTSD and is scared of women.

Wait, so do the worms turn her hair purple? Or does she just dye her hair to look more like a Matou?

Dark Rin does funny things to my duck.

You fags realize that personalty is something that develops throughout life, right?

The Worms. Sakura had Black hair and Blue Eyes before she was Wormed, the same thing would happen to Rin.

...

So how different would Matou Rin's personality be then?

I don't know about Matou Rin, but personality of Tohsaka Sakura is pretty clear, as was already stated, that Sakura without Matou's influence would have similar personality as Luvia.

I can't see Tohsaka Sakura being too similar to Luvia. Growing up alone, and under Kotomine's thumb would doubtless leave some effect.

ie; yes Sakura was said to be special for not breaking and going insane under that treatment. Although the best she could obtain is pretending to be normal on the outside, when normally someone would have been far more fucked up from it. The fact that any part of her wasn't fucked up, and she was able to be normal on a day by day basis was supposed to show how unearthly her will-power was. Even Zouken who tortures her daily could not break her after ten years no matter what he did, her armor she developed was too perfect, but her aptitude was defensive only. Her will was so unearthly that even all evils in the world could not break her mind in HF, as her personality survived and overcame it slightly at the end when that should be impossible.

If Rin went through it, she wouldn't have the same personality aptitude to withstand it and something else would have warped inside of her because of it. However we don't know which direct she would have gone with it if she did snap.

Rin is offensive if nature rather than defensive, if forced into this situation she would have broken far more quickly in some way. However that's not exactly a negative thing, it just makes her normal honestly. Sakura is a freak because of how she didn't break.

Rin despite what you were lead to think at first in the game, something you were supposed to realize later on was that she was the most normal in the game.

>Shinji being awesome

Why is that a Bad End?

>Rin "Pleases Old Men For Money" Tohsaka undergoing Matou training
By the time she entered high school, she'd have the entire Committee of 300 as her regular clients.

Surely the Penis Worms inside her would preclude any need for that. No old man's dick can ever match a Matou Dickworm.

No amount of sexual pleasure could compare to the money and global influence Matou Rin would acquire by selling her body.

All routes would drastically change since Matou Rin wouldn't be scared of the grail war and actually use Rider.

>Medusa vs Lancer
Who wins?

I'm pretty sure unlike Sakura, being raped by Worms for years and years would turn Rin off of sex.

...

But she'd become a sexual genius. It would be a waste for her not to use her talents.

Only sluts can survive the wormpit

Rin looks better as a wormslut than wormslut.

She really does.

>Rin looks better than wormslut. Period.

FTFY

Aye

And Sakura just looks better with the Blue Eyes and Black Hair.

Truly, reversing them makes them both look better.

Poor Rin would suffer greatly. She doesn't have Sakura's immense willpower, which kept her from breaking. Rin would break, and early. She could turn coldly hostile, or burn with anger and resentment, but either way Matou Rin would be damaged. Sakura would grow up under Kirei, and she wouldn't have Rin;s way of ignoring or shutting him out, so Tohsaka Sakura would probably come to trust Kotomine far more as well.

Regardles, the scenarios are just too good to ignore. If I had any ability, I'd recolour the F/SN Sprites and do a UBW and HF with Matou Rin/Tohsaka Sakura. Shame there's no fanfics covering the idea.

...

Rude post.

Rin is a whore, so maybe she could survive the wormpit if someone was paying her.

Who would pay for wormed goods though?

Luvia would probably be willing to pay Rin to jump in the wormpit.

Would that be NTR?

Would Luvia want Matou Rin though? I don't think there would ever be an end where a Matou would end up at the Clocktower. They're too heretical.

Truth is always painful.

How is it rude to suggest that Rin will become such an educated prostitute that she'll be able to use her influence to reshape the future of humanity?

Rin's not lewd.

Your post is rude.

You're right. She's not lewd, but she'll do lewd things for a price.

Rin is a top quality whore made to serve the aristocracy.

Leave her in the Dickworm Pool for 10 years and it's not going to end up well. Sakura wasn't born lewd, but look what those Worms did to her. Rin wouldn't escape the same fate if their roles were reversed.

Is the best outcome for Sakura for her to be adopted by the Edelfelts? She'd get Luvia as a big sister. And if the way Luvia treated Miyu in Prisma is anything to go by, Luvia makes a great big sister.

I really wonder who would they summon as Servants.

The whole point of Sakura summoning Rider is that they are both 'reluctant monsters'. If we instead do assume that Rin accepts her monstrous nature as a coping mechanism, instead of rejecting it, then who would she summon?

And would Sakura Tohsaka summon Archer for the sole fact that she has the family jewel?

What would Archer be like with Sakura as a master? Granted Tohsaka Sakura would be very different from Matou Sakura, but she would certainly not be like Tohsaka Rin either. And would Archer notice that here Sakura isn't Wormed and would he care if Rin was Wormed?

He would probably notice, I think.
Although what matters in the big picture is how the 4th war unfolded, what happened to the grail, to the Einzberns, to Shirou, etc etc.

Kariya would try to save Rin if she were in Sakura's place. He'd fail, of course. If Rin wasn't already broken beforehand, she'd probably break at the only nice person to her in the Matou house dying. Rin simply doesn't have Sakura's immense willpower, so she'd inevitbly crumble well before the 5th War. She's probably be either a hostile queen bee or an isolated outcast by the time of the 5th War. No idea how she'd engage with Shirou, might not even try, or swoop in and snatch him well before Sakura can get in there.
She'd probably be far more bitter towards Sakura for escaping, for not suffering the worms and for being the 'lucky' one. For her part sakura probably wouldn't have the willpower to resist Kirei and might well actually trust and rely on him more as a result and even believe what he says.

This is exactly why I believe Rin would become this icy cold queen bee, despite the anons saying she'd break.

She would break indeed, except that breaking here means accepting the monster inside that Sakura always tried to fight against. She would become bitter at the world as a reaction, while Sakura strived to be a good person to fight against the fact that she was made the embodiment of all the world's evil.

I actually don't believe Sakura would be super dependent on Kirei if she lived through the 4th war much like Rin did. She has an immense willpower, you said so yourself, so she'd probably be even more skeptical of him.

I can totally envision her bringing Archer along to kill Kirei on the first night, suspecting he was a Master all along.

Sort of echoing what everyone else has said but Rin would be absolutely broken, a lot of her willpower is an act and she always relies on the people around her. She'd have a poor match up against the worm pit.

Likewise Sakura would have a terrible match-up dealing with Kirei. I'm expecting Bazett level disaster once the war begins. A few characters describe Kirei as a mirror that brings out the worst in people and there's a lot worse in Sakura than Rin that he can work with, it's just a question of can he control it or will he end up killed like when he tried to pull that shit in HF.

I don't think Sakura would go that far, and given she'd be growing up with no family whatsoever and she's always seemed far more family oriented, if she doesn't go to the Clocktower for the 10 odd years between the forth and fifth wars, Kirei would basically be the only person in her life.

Shinji would just suffer horribly. Sakura pitied him, that's why she let him do what he did. Rin would never do that. She'd kick the shit out of him the moment he tried anything (probably thinming how easy eh has it compared to her), and if she needs Semen, she'd probably force Shinji into it if not just out-and-out raping him. Shinji might well stick much closer to Shirou as a result, with Shirou's friendship a lone ray of hope in the bleak existence he'd have.

It's really kind of depressing. Sakura was fortunate enough that she was almost custom-made to resist the Worms. Rin just doesn't have that kind of defense. Rin would suffer far worse than Sakura, and take it out on all those around her as a result. I can still see Shirou trying to save her, maybe even more motivated as Rin would be in far greater need of saving.

These threads really are a goldmine, I'd like to run a quest based on these premises one of these days.

I want to recolour the sprites and do a route. Reverse HF, where Shirou and Sakura must save Rin. Would people be so quick to back MoS ending if it was Matou Rin Shirou was abandoning his ideals for?

And I'd totally do your quest.

>Even Zouken who tortures her daily could not break her
It seems you haven't read/watched Fate/Zero:
"There were terrible cries for the first three days, but by the fourth day, she was silent." and "So, what will you do? The little girl is already broken, filled by the worms from head to toes."

Sakura didn't completely break until HF though. She managed to hold onto herself and deny Zouken a complete victory. Yes, she submitted to the Worms, but she didn't lose herself.

Rin by contrast would break badly, and her personality would change utterly, whereas Sakura's personality wasn't overwritten by what Zouken did.

>yes Sakura was said to be special for not breaking and going insane under that treatment
Secondary pls.
Read Zero, Sakura cried for three days straight and then ended up so broken she didn't give a shit about Kariya dying and thought him a fool for defying Ojii-sama.
It was Shirou the one who healed Sakura.

Rin is an Average One, so she already has the Water alignment. She doesn't need the horrible body modifications and experiments Sakura went through just to make her compatible with the Matou magic.
Rin only needs to get a Crest Worm like Kariya and she's ready to go.

Sakura isn't that impressionable, she was kind even though she basically raised herself under the experimentation of the Matous.

Kirei influenced Rin because Rin was indoctrinated by the teachings of her father and leaned on that, which is why she goes hard in maintaining the "always elegant" motto she learned from Tokiomi, giving her school idol persona. Under the Matous, she is pretty likely to just not give much if a fuck about life, her fire usually comes from having choice and the power to do things about her situation. If she was tortured by Zouken, having her power severely handicapped, with the axe of death over her at all times, it would likely just make her lethargic about magecraft.

Whereas I don't see Sakura particularly caring to do follow tradition as a Tohsaka. She was always the type to really only endeavor in things she absolutely wants to do herself. Kirei would actually have a hard time finding something to pick on her because Sakura would actually actively talk with Rin, despite her father's orders. People usually see her as mousy, but she is the type to reach out, and with no reason not to, they would hang out. It would have to be Rin rejecting her again that would stop her.

Both sisters have a strong will, but Sakura is more naturally malleable, more flexible to hardship if we analyze their personalities.

She might not, but surely Zouken would still throw her in the Wormpit for shits and giggles.

>If she was tortured by Zouken, having her power severely handicapped
Why would she have her powers handicapped?
Sakura was a special case because she was severely incompatible with Zouken's magic, Rin can learn it just fine.

Shirou, if you become a bad boy, I will scold you!

This is wrong. The reason why Sakura is not compatible is not because she doesn't have the water element, it's because she was changed by force. Zouken didn't care about making her an heir, he treated her like he treated Shinji's mom, just she was strong enough not to die and end up scrap rotting flesh in the basement.

Rin noted herself that theoretically, she should be able to come up with ideas that would revolutionize the Matous and be better than other generations. But that was under her own terms, not Zouken's. Read when she entered the basement, she basically admitted her mind would likely snap because this wasn't the environment for an heir, it was the environment for turning someone into a vegetable to feed the worms.

>The reason why Sakura is not compatible is not because she doesn't have the water element, it's because she was changed by force

So why was she forcefully changed into obtaining water as her element?

For my first attempt to edit the F/SN Sprites with Photoshop, it doesn't look 100% shit.

I just have 800 or so Rin and Sakura Sprites to go.

>she basically admitted her mind would likely snap
She never admitted that. Also:

The cold-hearted ways, the difficulty of the tasks, and the pain of the engraved Magic Circuit.
She's not comparing the severity as the successor.
If one is to talk about the burdened sufferings and the harshness, hers is incomparable.
She overcame more difficulties and hardships than anyone.
That is why she is a genius magus and an Average One, the user of the five elements, that the Magic Association is accepting as a scholarship student.

She would have her powers handicapped because she is constantly getting her mana sucked out by parasites and is being used as an experiment, not an heir.

You are thinking it was only because Sakura had Imaginary Element that she suffered like she did, and that isn't the case. It was because Zouken didn't care to raise her like a magus, he just did whatever he wanted. Why do you think Kariya walked out? Not just because of the deal with Zouken wanting to use Aoi for heinous shit, it was a certifiable dead end for being a magus, and Zouken expected all his family members to fall in line with his demands. Why do you think you never see Kariya and Byakuya's mother and father? They ain't that old, and Nips usually live long lives.

Hell, Sakura can still use her element, despite the fact Zouken's treatment should have ruined her as a magus. Zouken literally tossed her in and left her for twelve hours at four years old and said "if you live, that's great, if not, oh well".

great job.

I really like this thread.
Shame we'll never see an actual FSN Tohsaka sisters turnabout route.

She did, read the part right after that:

>Rin can create a spell that the successor of the Matou family has been unable to create even after ten years.

>But---this method of learning is madness.
If asked whether she could withstand being violated by these worms, she can only hesitate.

>The inheritance of the magic here is not a study, but a torture.
A magic that is taught not to the mind, but to the body.

>That is how the Makiris pass on their magic, and this is the preference of the old magus, Matou Zouken.
Therefore…
To be chosen as the successor of the Matou family means to be tortured forever

The other part was Rin rationalizing what she was seeing in front of her and trying to see things from the pride of a magus, when reality struck her that there was no pride for Sakura to have here.

Even when she says "if someone was to command me to make use of these worms, I probably could better than anyone else" she is talking from the perspective of "if someone asked Tohsaka Rin, with all her knowledge, to make something of this mess here, I probably could if I don't spend the days puking my guts out and go nuts". Which isn't "I can survive this from childhood". It's her pride talking.

See the fact she reflexively vomited right after.

Thanks.

This one's a lot worse, but it does at least show what the look is roughly. I'll have to make a few changes on the next attempt.

I associate the twintails to the Tohsaka style, I think she'd look a lot better with long purple hair and maybe a delinquent kind of look.

Not many Sprites look like that though. She doesn't let her hair down at all in F/SN.

Despite that one shade of purple on her bangs, it's bretty gud.

Have some loli Tohsakas.

>haha time to ride the Rin rape train
>rapes Ayako
>rapes Shinji
>rapes Rider
>rapes Zouken, sure why not
>rapes dick worms
>rapes Shirou
>rapes Seiba, of course
>rapes old fat menfor free

But why did he do that? What not just use her as a sex slave for him and shinji?

She does, but only in CGs (PJs) and that one sprite for HF True.

The ribbons are important for female magi for helping with mana lorewise.

So how many dick worms could fit in Sakura's pussy and ass?

All of them. She is so loose she could fit a bowling bowl up there.

So keeping them on her is fine. To show her colder personality you'd ditch all the smiling ones and get the ones which make her look nastier, more cruel.

>she didn't give a shit about Kariya dying and thought him a fool for defying Ojii-sama.
Secondary pls.

>All routes would drastically change since Matou Rin wouldn't be scared of the grail war and actually use Rider.

Wait, there are people who think that Sakura was just scared of battle/, and didn't see she understood Zouken was using her and fighting in her condition was suicide?

Like, what exactly would fighting in the war gain her but getting blood on her hands, feeling like shit as the worms go double time on her body with having to maintain a servant as well, and having to fight her Senpai? Literally no pros.

Getting the Purple out of her hair is really hard work, but her eyes are easy.

I think she looks a lot better with the Black Hair and Blue Eyes.

A few dozen more of these, and maybe I'll start getting better at it.

>But---this method of learning is madness.
Figure of speech. And that isn't Rin speaking. It's third-person narrative mode describing how "crazy" something is.

>It's her pride talking
It isn't.

>Which isn't "I can survive this from childhood"
Yes, it is. "She overcame more difficulties and hardships than anyone." confirms that.

>vomited

>It's not because of disgust or chill.
>It is anger that causes her to shudder, repent, and vomit.

proving once again typememe has no creativity,and are milking jewish scum bags

You are ignoring the part where it is says, "if she were asked to be violated by these worms, she can only hesitate". So yeah, she is admitting being the heir to thus is shit.

Also, the third person narration is often used to emphasize what the character is feeling. This scene was to show the gap of what she feeling vs. the mask of a magus she wears.

But alright, I'll give you that the vomiting was out of anger, but that only serves my point further, in that she understood that Sakura didn't have much of a chance to work something from this. She was trying rationalize that there was at least some sense to what was in front of her.

This would likely be a default expression for Matou Rin. Her 'I'll fuck up anyone who dares cross me' look.

Sorry, what is the source for this?

Google and yandex gave junk results.

Would raping her even make her flinch at this point? How boring.

>dat nip

She'd be the one doing the Raping. After all, years of Worm Rape would harden her to it. Also her sexual tastes are a lot more broad compared to her sister.