Can Cuba be considered an example of socialism working?

So a guy proposed to me that Cuba is an excellent example of socialism working. Free healthcare and education, literacy rate above USA and below 5% population living under poverty. Do any of you have any counter arguments or you agree with the notion?(Provide sources alongside please)

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Cuban
iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/cu-cuba?_escaped_fragment_=
foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/28/cuban-medicine-killed-hugo-chavez.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Not really, if it was so awesome people wouldn’t be risking their lives to escape

Hey poo in the loo, take a trip to Miami and ask any Cuban in their 50's or 60's how much socialism worked out for Cuba. Stupid generation Z shrimp dick

Weren't they just plantation owners that left because of Castro?

Fuck you Pajeet. You can't even shit in a toilet.

Cuban secret police suck.

Sorry ameretard , I can't do that. That's why I came here for legit arguments without bias for either side. If you know what they say, inform me as well . Else you provide nothing of value

And now Castro runs the island like a gigantic plantation.

It depends on what your definition of "working" is. As a society it mostly functions but there is little freedom and the government will arbitrarily kill you whenever they want. It's one of the last places I'd want to live.

Cuba is so poor that you can litterally get an open bar of top shelf liquer for a pair of $20 sneakers and some potato chips, also fill a house with whores for less than what you would spend going to a baseball game...kinda pointless having free education when you aren't allowed to use the internet and your words can land you in a prison

Here's a better question:
If you were forced to go into exile from your own nation and the only choice you had in the matter was to go to India or Cuba, which would you pick?

You should write his name down and report him to RSS

Enjoy your poverty you stupid dumb fuck.

Freedom of Speech, no dice neither.

Lol RSS can't do shit. It only reaves hindu propaganda and ultra nationalism. It has no concern for a capitalist economy cos they'll lose their votes they gain by brainwashing the uneducated rural residents

My own nation is India so.....

Dafuq are you on about?

You need to start looking at your own government more closely. Obama signed laws and executive orders into place that allow the government to kill Americans indiscriminately.

Any system of government has a proportion of the population who wants to oust them. The job of their security services is to keep that proportion well below 10%

India obviously. I've been to india, there are some actually quite nice places there with expats living in them everything is super cheap and its actually a free country.

>My own nation is India so.....
>India obviously

Population density of Cuba is 265 commies/square mile.
1019 Pajeets/sq mi in India.

For reference, there's 91 burgers/sq mi in the US, and 42 aspies/sq mi in Finngolia.

I was there just a few days ago. Socialism did its part - virtually no violent crime even with niggers, mutts and other racemixing varieties, no homeless people on the street save a few examples, free healthcare and other public services that are a must in today's world.

Unfortunately, it's still a ghetto and the culture could need some revitalizing. The first one may or may not be due to the embargo, but there is no excuse for being in Havana and feeling like you're standing in the middle of a war torn city. Trash everywhere, bars over windows and doors, animals pissing and shitting on the street, old collapsed or disrepaired buildings and virtually no maintenance.

>free healthcare
What a shitty meme.
Scumbags are more than willing to pay a 1600% markup for their drugs every weekend, yet can't comprehend how a decade of specialized schooling and practice has value.

If those niggers had to watch the government take $3 out of their wallet every time a junkie OD'ed, they'd be singing a different song by next Tuesday.

My own experience with Cubans is similar to my own with Communism: people don't like it when they aren't the one trying to push it. Imagine you work hard to own something and now you're forced to share it with everybody else. The thing with Cuba is not just that people have been removed from their property: there is a big mind work there to make people accept that just living with the basics and not aspiring to more is the right way of living. Something like, "if the government gives us all the exact amount to survive, why would you need more?". If you're a conformist, I guess that's fine for you. If you're mediocre, then you should be pleased that your neighbour will never be more than you. For people like this, the government is like a benevolent father they would never dare to criticise because they have no reason to and they hate anything that criticises the way they live. Those who escape are either the ones who aren't yet been broken by the system or those who simply oppose it.

And of course, all of this is for the people. The Castros and the rest of the elites live like royalty.

Both have delicious food to me but Cuban food doesn't absolutely destroy my lower intestine. Also, those cigars are so much better than cheap ass poo cigs.

Stop twisting words, if they need an operation or any other medical attention they don't need to pay shit. Where money comes from to finance all of that is another matter.

>inb4 free is not free

>Do any of you have any counter arguments
Visiting Cuba.

That free healthcare includes doctors who have no real motivation to give you the best care possible and the clinics are in a shockingly 3rd world condition.

>Where money comes from to finance all of that is another matter.

That was my point, entirely.
No one wants to watch how the sausage is made.

And the whole deal about health care or education is silly. Cuba doesn't receive education but indoctrination. You can't read or discuss the things you want. And among the rest of Latin America, many have free health care too. Why they treat it like Cuba is groundbreaking on this? Believe me, the Cuban healthcare system is not better than the one you find in Chile or Argentina, for example.

Also, the whole "under poverty" rate is misleading. In Latin America, poverty is considered if you live with less (I think) than $3 per day. Cubans earn, on average, $10 per MONTH. That's why they have to use special measurements because they have certain things covered by the state.

Fuck, it's late. What I mean is that Cuba's poverty isn't measured the same as the rest of Latin American countries. It's like giving your retarded classmate a different test than the rest so he can pass it and we all can pretend he's not retarded at all. If Cuba is measured in the same way the rest of Latin countries are, you'd see how lacks pretty much everything.

I am from Latin America and I have free healthcare and I don't need to pay for most medical attention I could need. And, unlike Cuba, my government won't arrest me if I openly say I hate it.

>I am from Latin America and I have free healthcare
I bet there's an American Flag hiding under that meme flag.
>net taxpayers
my ass.

>Free healthcare
but no medicine

>Free education
but no schools

>Literacy
but no books

>5%
Everybody is dirt poor except the Party cronies

This. Visit sometime and it's apparent the place is a dilapidated shithole the second you leave the airport. You'll find virtually everything is decades out of date and the roads are atrocious. Havana can pass as a half decent city but everything else is trash. Nobody's starving but nobody has any money either. Working house phones are still a rarity. Shorter version: if you wanna see whether or not a country's total garbage, see if they ever post. You'll never find an actual Cuban here.

Everyone's equally poor, so yeah Cuba is a perfect example of socialism working. Just try to buy a car there. But to be fair, there are also a lot of sanctions on trade.

>Free healthcare
Their medical techniques and requirements are outdated, and their hospitals looks like their are going to collapse.

>free education
Almost all of them are indoctrination centers.

>higher literary rate
That one is true, I believe.

>below 5% living on poverty
[Citation needed]

If Cuba did better than the U.S., Cuba already did way better than India.

>Cuba
>According to a 2002 national census which surveyed 11.2 million Cubans, 1.1 million Cubans described themselves as Black, while 5.8 million considered themselves to be "mulatto" or "mestizo"

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Cuban
Cuba is the mythical island of eternal gibs.

That 5% rate is from wiki

And yeah, statistically Cuba is doing better than India

>Cuba
>"working"

Statistically YOU POO ARE FUCKING RETARDED. Socialism is POO. Cuba is POOR.

>only 5% living under poverty level

HHHHAHAHAHAHA!
No.

>wiki
Good source, my friend. A good one. Wikipedia also give you sources, unless it says "citation needed."

Yep, outdated as fuck. 2002.

Stats are always reported by the government and not outside orgs, health care and education are at least a decade or 2 behind, and in a socialist society everyone should be on the same standards, so that 5% shouldn't be there in the first place, and the rest of the population are just slightly above the poverty line, and again, it's the government reporting stats so who knows.
S A G E D
A
G
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D

>Yep, outdated as fuck. 2002

Cuba.
Updated since 1642.
Topkek.

Those islandniggers are gonna shit their pants when they get the interweb 300 years from now.

Even the Dominicans updated their shit. Their health care is extremely expensive, though.

>Their health care is extremely expensive, though.
Lies.
Cubans are socialists. That means that healthcare is free, or even less. If you get shot in the face, you get cash back.

Shit facts.

I'm talking about a Dominican health care. I know Cuba's health care is free.

... and Obama is a socialist, you tard

If that country is so grand, why would they risk death by getting on rafts in the middle of the night to go to Florida?

lolno
they can't even make their dictator parades work

Also if it so great of a place, if you had a life threatening disease, would you go to cuba to get cured from their free medicine?

would you imagine you could just go there and "make it" as a business man?

If you won the lottery, would you move there as your first choice?

Yes, it sucks balls it's working so well. Perhaps don't believe a dictatorship's statistics so much and do some research on what the Cuban healthcare system is really like? Most first world medical agencies won't even license Cuban doctors, while there's org's here that help other foreigners get them. The US isn't alone in this, the medical training and facilities they train in are considered shit by even African standards.

american degeneracy and opulence.
cuba is based

>Dominican health care
Doublekek.

You can only do so much with hexbags, user.

(((They))) continue imposing the embargo. Cuba could probably make shit work. Even their niggers and race mixed folk are tame and there is no crime, compared to other shitholes across the globe (south America, eastern Europe...). Even North Korea was removed from the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, which is absolutely ridiculous.

But they have proven socialism can work, they have proven National Socialism can work.

They have a foreigner-exclusive hospitals, do you know of medical tourism?.

>If you won the lottery, would you move there as your first choice?

If Cuba wasn't embargoed, it would be what Spain is to old English retirees.

Most of them are state of the art medical equipments and imported from the U.S. The hospital TV on every patient rooms are the oldest.

Im cuban, but posting from Florida.

>Even their [Cuba's] niggers are tame
Compared to what?

Cubans are still building boats out of used condoms and phlegm to take a chance on making it to Florida.

Dear Mexico,
When our rednecks start spitting on their own nutsacks in hope of successfully invading Tenochtitlan, you faggots should start distilling Scotch in hopes of surviving.

You can probably hold them off for a few years with your much praised "Donkey Shows", but you're fucked after that.

>Mi Taco Hacienda, con """TRUCK"""
You fucks have never met a drunken Mick, have you?

Did you celebrate on Fidel's death?

>Most of them are state of the art medical equipments and imported from the U.S

Cannonballs and herpes are still "State of the Art" in Dominica.

Not a Cuban flag, so it doesn't count. And to think we have regular visitors from the dumpster fire that is Venezuela.

Yes ofc it can.
Just lice venezuela, soviet union, east germany, obama care, etc...
They are ALL perfect examples of how socialism works.

>Dominica
Damon, the small island is endangered thanks to Maria.

>below 5% population living under poverty
And what is Cuba's definition of poverty?

Right, even 2nd and 3rd world countries can afford a few 1st world hospitals and training/ colleges. Those that can't, make agreements with other countries, especially in training. The Cubans did the medical equivalent of sacrilege; pooping out gp's in 4 years and specialists in 6, while going down the road of state-directed research. How many Nobel Prizes do they have, or how many medical articles from Cuban doctors have you read? There have been Cuban doctors become real ones in the US, but they had literally 3-4 more years of school, plus a residency to perform. Many doctors from Europe or the middle east might have to take one or two classes to be certified, not years. It was the Cuban strategy to get healthcare out there asap, and it might have been a good thing in the short term, but in the long term, they have RN level training calling themselves doctors. SAD!

You'll know how shitty it is if you ever visited Cuba.

All the waiters and waitresses are doctors or engineers who take the job of waiting tables because they make more off tips.

Almost all the houses you see are damaged because no one has money to fix it. People get roughly 25 bucks a month which means they're forced to either pay or food or for clothes that month. They can't have both. You can't even go out to the city without being surrounded by people begging for money.

They never season any of their food and their alcohol is shit too.

>Im cuban, but posting from Florida.

Yeah. Meet 96% of modern Cubans.
Much like every other proud spic, they ran away from home while never shutting the fuck up about how great their Isla will be, someday.
>Only $1.49 for a taste of the REAL Cuba!!

Taco trucks and even bigger nachos than the last guy.
That's the true legacy of all beaners.

i'm part cuban and have family who left cuba for america, and would never go back

but i also have family on that side who were jailed in america for infiltrating lockheed martin to spy for the cuban government after bombings in havana, and others who are still there

the sentiment is mixed, but that's any form of government

cuba is an example of socialism working as best as it can, but there are a lot of issues (many due to outside sources and other governments) which can be said about anywhere

it's all subjective

things that aren't subjective however are things like the high literacy rate and the better medical care/education

suppose it's technically a castro in charge, but raul isn't exactly like fidel

one thing people should be aware of however is that major powers in government throughout the world actively keep down nations that don't share their views/culture/lifestyle and many of cuba's issues stem from outside sources pushing cuba into a constant state of revolution in a sense

of course it isn't going to be run the same as a place where the government has been long established and is allowed fair treatment

there was a reason why fidel's speeches never claimed there was a need to stop the fight for independence, and that hasn't changed

Cuba do have good doctors, though. Sadly, they are working in a shittiest looking hospitals that most of them doesn't work and it has little or no medicines.

words land people in prison here too, among other things

as for the internet, given the current state of it where companies buy and sell privacy and it's used by the government to aid in the surveillance of its citizens i can't exactly feel particularly bad for people who just don't have it the way we do

Disagree on the doctor quality obviously. Also would point out medicine from the US isn't embargoed, in many cases it's subsidized even.

>things that aren't subjective however are things like the high literacy rate
With an 85 national IQ, I find this hard to believe. I'd like to know Cuba's definition of ''''''literacy''''''

iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/cu-cuba?_escaped_fragment_=

all countries have indoctrination as part of the public school system

in america children are forced to say the pledge and refusal to do so is frequently met with opposition

they're taught history from books written with an american perspective that aren't entirely factual and told lies that are just propaganda ("free country") and so on

it's the unavoidable reality of government education

>I'd like to know Cuba's definition of ''''''literacy''''''
Everyone in Cuba who could swim, or pretend to, immigrated to Miami in the last 50 years.

I'm guessing Cuba looks exactly like you'd expect now.

foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/28/cuban-medicine-killed-hugo-chavez.html

>wide spread poverty
>shit healthcare (at least it's free XDDD)
>millions fled the country
Jep. Sounds like socialism alright.

ah yes because so many people try to escape it and children in schools are treated like slaves

iq isn't the be all end all of intelligence, and an iq of 85 doesn't prevent someone from reading

not to mention literacy isn't necessarily a sign of intelligence

intelligence is generally more about the way a person processes information and thinks rather than what they know

someone can be educated and capable of rote memorization, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily intelligent

in the same vein a person can lack a formal education and be ignorant in that sense but brilliant in another

my iq is well above 85 (spent years in classes for the gifted, getting scholarships and academic awards etc) so i'm not saying this as someone who feels the need to defend themselves, just pointing out facts

First of all Cuba is not a real socialism (only Marxism can be and Cuba fails to deliver real Marxism same with USSR). Cuba and USSR can be classified as neo slavery.

People will shit on Cuba but if you actually go there outside the resorts people are genuinely happy.

It's a stark contrast to USA and Canada where most people look stressed , unhappy and tired.

I'm not saying things are perfect in Cuba , far from it but it's not as bad as people - especially in the USA - make it out to be.

to be fair basing your entire government off of one person's philosophy and using one book as the be all end all is idiotic at best

different cultures and countries have different needs and those have to be taken into account when implementing any system

it's one thing to take ideas from a source and modify them to fit a culture, but it's another to try to enforce an idea in its entirety without taking the pre-existing nation/culture into account

marxism is communism, and the definition of socialism is broader than that

btw one could argue the capitalist system of the us is in line with roman slavery where the slaves were paid wages that weren't enough to exist on, but allowed to buy their freedom (which was often an unrealistic goal, but people feeling as if they have a chance generally is enough to keep them in line even if that chance is slim because people like to think they'll be on the better side of statistics)

people are slaves to larger corporations, the banking system, and a government where their voices are meaningless (voting for example is for the most part just a pacification and division tool, the same underlying agenda plays out regardless of who's in charge because the president is merely a figurehead and the issues that do change are ultimately minor things that people feel passion for),but they think they have freedom because the rhetoric is drilled into their heads that they do and they have some level of first world comforts that make them feel better off than they actually are

any government or system with too much authority is arguably a form of slavery of the masses

>to be fair basing your entire government off of one person's philosophy and using one book as the be all end all is idiotic at best
> and the definition of socialism is broader than that
Thing is only Marx explains why capitalism is bad and need to be abolished as system.

So called "non Marxist socialist" are really not different from the neoclassical economics, mainstream capitalistic economical theory. Everything "socialist" say and propose is encompassed and explained by this capitalist economic theory. Arguing about our current position on The Laffer Curve doesn't makes you socialists.

Wasted your digits poo nigger
Fuck commies
Never forget never forgive

Anything works to third worlders.

Cuba is not socialism at all, just a third world African corrupt state.

i've read the communist manifesto, and i know its content, but again there's a broader definition to the word "socialism" than classical marxism and it's pointless to suggest otherwise when that's just not factual

i get it you're a purist and cling to one ideology as the be all end all

when it comes to capitalism it can be bad, however abolishing it entirely is unrealistic and not worthwhile

certain aspects of capitalism are beneficial and do work because people are reward motivated to an extent

it's only in its unchecked form (or too loosely checked) that capitalism is an issue, but limited forms of it are beneficial

i'm by no means defending extreme forms of capitalism, but to a certain extent it has its own value

what marx wanted is unrealistic and denies certain aspects of human nature, and in its purest form just isn't workable

unmodified it requires a dictator to enforce ultimately

to an extent things like the education system being entirely owned and run by the government make it very easy for the government itself to get out of hand due to the level of control placed on it

and sure we could pretend the workers would always have a say, but the reality is it needs to at least border on being authoritarian in order to work and that's not something anyone should just allow

what you're talking about is one man's utopian idea of what a society could be, but utopian ideas generally fall short when it comes to actually being put into practice and compromise always has to be made

bitching about a lack of purity is naive at best because it ignores reality entirely

>certain aspects of capitalism are beneficial and do work because people are reward motivated to an extent
>it's only in its unchecked form (or too loosely checked) that capitalism is an issue, but limited forms of it are beneficial
This is exactly same words neoclassical economist say. So such "socialism" is just dressing of capitalism in the another trade mark.

Have you been to cuba? Things look alright in pictures until tou get up close and realize all the buildings are dirty and old. The nation is a shell with a few modern areas that attempt to trick visitors into thinking the whole nation is to that standard. Its a fuckin shithole,OP

Tell me of a single socialist movement and socialist leader, socoalism withput Nationalism and racialism doesnt exist.

speaking as someone who lives only 90 miles away from cuba and goes on the reg to fuck their women (I don't stay in all inclusive hotels) i live like a cuban when i go (i am originally white canadian)

Cuba's infrastructure is crumbling. What i mean is. Although education is free. And the people seem to be doing alright. But the government puts no money into keeping the info structure clean and vibrant

They do sneak in american television and movies. They see modern facades, and glitz and glamour. And they think everyone is rich in america.

That is why they try to escape.

Otherwise, its' like america was 70 years ago. Before the second world war. Farming is big. but the state still "technically" owns everything. And even when it does not. if you become too successful to fast without greasing the right palms. you can find yourself up on "state" charges and your shit taken from you.

And when i say they are in a time forgotten. imagine 1930's before super markets (ya...they don't have super markets) only Mercado's or markets.
If you want eggs, you gotta go to this market. you want meat. You gotta go to this market. You get the picture.

Overall cuban girls are fucking sexy. From california bleach blond and white, to black as african. And everything in between. They are FUCKING hot. I have partied in cuba and if i told you stories you wouldn't beleive me. cause they are that fucking over the top!

pic is a cuban girl 15!!!!! crazy, on my fb. i thought she was 20ish when she friended me.

you have never been to cuba.


ANYONE that hasn't been to cuba. SHUT THE FUCK UP. you know nothing.

Assholes commenting on a place they have never been or "they know someone who lived there" type of bullshit.

FFS.....go and then experience cuba and then come back and make an opinion.

You know nothing.

They have medicine you fucking dolt. They buy off any country but the US.

They have plenty of schools. The havana university is the biggest i have ever seen. its' like the vatican huge!

They have books, ffs. You guys are morons.

and there is capitalism happening everywhere in cuba.
Go and see.

because the internet is still very much controlled.

But they offer them in town parks. There is always a central park right in the middle of every city or town. And it has internet. But you must buy a "ticket" type internet card. Which has a number on it. So usually the business. Takes your name with ID and your money. And you get a numbered access card. You punch it in the browser (exactly like a hotel)
and bam your online.

There are a fuck ton of hot cuban girls on FB.

I go to cuba on the reg and thats how i meet my fuck toys.

This thread is actually pretty sad. 95% of you have never stepped foot in cuba. But you all have opinions.

losers

easy to buy a car in cuba. And not everyone is equally poor.

But the rich guys are actually the guys with the old cars driving tourists. They made 150 dollars every 3 hours

More than you do, you fucking schlep.

sad that a cuban makes more than you? LOL

that's why the leader of Venezuela went to cuba when their own doctors couldn't treat him. he died anyways. But he went to cuba because the doctors are very good.

Legitimately exactly this. I was born in Cuba, my mother too. I left with my mother when I was very young but we still have family there.
My grandfather died of prostate cancer several years ago not due to the incompetence of the doctor, but simply due to the lack of materials.
The education is all well and good, but what's the point if no other nations recognize it, and you earn only marginally more than Jose the gardener.
My family was lucky that they were well off before the revolution, but they still need to work hard to get by. That's what paladars (home operated restaurants) are so popular there.
The Cuban spirit hasn't been broken, they're an incredibly resilient people, but they're too busy trying to survive to be able to change anything, which makes me sad as I enjoy their traditionalism and family values and don't want to see it go to waste due to socialism.

i love paladars

I have this casa particular i stay at. It's huge. got really lucky finding it.

Its' an entire floor of a 4 story apartment building.

Pay 35 USD a night to rent and its' by the malecon.

Love sitting on the malecon. See a hot girl walk by. Start talking to her. within 30 min, off to dinner then my place for some boom boom.

ideas from different sides should be heard and taken from and rather than forming the same exact system of government somewhere else has those things should be built upon

if none of what is works then something different is what's needed

using the same ideas when we can see what's wrong with them

operating on the idea that a utopian ideal can exist if we listen to one person's view of the world and trust them implicitly as if they were somehow perfect is senseless

no one's right about everything, so why should anyone try to impliment all of marx's ideas and force that on other people?

at least not on a grand scale

that's alright for a small area but it wouldn't work everywhere

and enforcing the will of anyone on a grand scale is pretty fucking crazy

just look at regional culture differences, that isn't what works everywhere and it isn't going to be what works worldwide either

If I as the government say that poverty means living under 50c a day, then no one in Canada is poor?
I'm not going to trust some socialists to give me statistics about anything because they're almost always warped.