What is the romantic appeal of Communism?

Honestly, what is the so-called "romantic" appeal of communism?

Most socialists and communists I've met defend such a system as a balancing of the economic playing field, right to welfare, medical care, etc, but beyond that, what is the benefit?

Communism: a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Accordingly their abilities and needs? How is that egalitarian? Like at all? It's a meritocracy of sorts (ability) and needs only accounts for the most basic of goods and services.

The funny thing is most of these leftists I've met are the most covetous and materialistic people on earth. Do they really think this system allows them to stay as privledged as they are?

Sorry for rambling on.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem
newsweek.com/majority-russians-fond-lenin-and-regret-soviet-collapse-449624
businessinsider.com/pew-research-global-satisfaction-map-2014-2
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

communism has its origins in the anabaptists and the hussites
it's basically a secularized version of christian heresies

But what is the appeal for groups like antifa? Do they really think that the state will pay for their tattoos, hairdye and degenerate lifestyles without a job?

>I'm a shitty "artist" and no-one likes my work, but I want to get paid for doing what I love anyway.

The Romantic appeal is in the violence promised by the revolution. A lotta folks just wanna hurt each other but they need to feel that it's justified AND for a good end--exactly what the communistic way of though provides.

I think it's a story as old as time, rebellion against a perceived 'oppressor'

the ancient romans used to tell people 'the hands and feet should be angry with the stomach for hogging all the food, it must for the body to survive"

Poor people don't want to be poor, but they don't want to work for it.
Rich teenagers want to remain rich but don't want to work either.
Solution: Communism

It's because it's considered an enemy to capitalism, and they're edgelords that want to do the opposite of whatever society expects of them.

Communism is an ideal - a philosophical vision of a perfect society, that is most optimal as a whole and for every one of its' member. Here's a common enough appeal.

Personally though, what resonates most for me - although that does too - is an elegance of semantics of Marxism itself. Practice is the criterion of truth. No philosopher can compete with that, no matter how you think about that.

>Honestly, what is the so-called "romantic" appeal of communism?

There is none. It's just cynical redpilling about "muh free market" and "muh jahbgivers who make community prosper out of their desire to outjew everyone".

Anything more than that is larping.

You have an orgy with a family of 4 that died from famine.But that's one way.

Leftists feel like losers and don't believe they can compete in society. Where the average person believes in themselves and believes that they can achieve great things, the leftist has no self esteem and believes himself to be incapable of achieving anything on his own. Communism removes competition.

They are herd instinct conformists.

Do you compete with every single person on earth? With you partner? Your parents? Your spouse? Your children? Competition is ultimately a huge waste, that comes from lack of compromise and cooperation. The more people cooperate, the more productive and less wasteful they become. The ultimate productivity will be reached at full cooperation and no competition.

Marxism doesn't see capitalism as an enemy in any way. It is, however, the only school that offers coherent critical analysis, development and alternative to it.

There really isn't any, it's a political doctrine of envy and parasitism.
It's appeal lies in the have nots taking stuff from the haves & the belief this will bring them happiness, they are misguided.

this guy gets it right. Only fags are into capitalism.. capitalism is evil. Fortunately, we are in late stage capitalism and it will end soon enough. Rich people.. we're coming for ya.

>is an elegance of semantics of Marxism itself. Practice is the criterion of truth. No philosopher can compete with that, no matter how you think about that.
What do you mean by this, because personally I think most philosophers beat out Marx, if only out of their ability to view history through a less biased lens.

We certainly are going after the rich, but don't think public fags like you we'll be spared after we get done with them. You, the capitalists, and the communists all must be erased.

Yes, If you work like the best, you will be the best. You faggots just have no skills.

Unironically kill yourself. Every word a communist says is a lie. Every action is used to further the ultimate goal. The ends justify the means, no matter what, right komrade? Fuck you and all you stand for, forever.

Yes. Don't siblings for their parent's attention?

Here's a quote from someone who actually was born into and raised under communism. Life is competitive by nature. To remove competition is to shackle ourselves and live our lives in chains.

Kaczynski was right -- deep down you know you're a loser and that is why you shill so hard for this dream of "equality" where those who are better than you will not be allowed to soar but instead forced to scratch around in the dirt with pathetic nobodies like you who lack the will, the mental fortitude, and the courage to provide for themselves and achieve greatness.

Communism is the ne plus ultra of virtue-signaling and has been used as a machine on which the left exercises its ego. Everything a lefty does is done to some way communicate their utter goodness. Communism is simply the ultimate LARP.

>if only out of their ability to view history through a less biased lens.
What kind of lens do you use to view Marx and other philosophers?
You and what army?

*compete
Actually, now that I think about everyone and everything is competing for someone's attention.
There is so many hours in a day.
You have to work, play, visit family, cook dinner, raise your children, do chores at home,etc.

Life is a competition for your time.

>Communism is an ideal - a philosophical vision of a perfect society, that is most optimal as a whole and for every one of its' member. Here's a common enough appeal.

So like the other anons said its essentially secularised Utopianism

youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8

Basically, to some people, a world where everyone is treated the same regardless of ability or worth, where possessions don't exist and everyone shares everything, and where religion, culture, family, and the nation doesn't exist, some people view this kind of world as desirable.

Normal people can't understand this and they never will be able to understand it. The only cure for communists is a bullet, because they are willing to kill anyone who gets in the way of their vision for society, no matter how innocent or unarmed.

If you work the best, you'll make a lot of money for someone who owns/speculates on your work with the power of capital.

It's supposed to make everyone equal. People overall are pretty shitty though, so it's basically just another brand of dehumanization that only benefits the lucky few.

They seem like disaffected kids and young adults looking for a scapegoat.

That's why fascism is better. We want to kill people and feel no need to justify it.

Surprised this isn't in the first answers, but it's very simple

The romantic appeal of communism is obvious, no one should be left behind, no one should be above the others. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

People claiming (and rightly so) that communism can never work are suddenly seen as opressors and trigger this self righteous response of "real communism has never been tried" in order to protect their ideology. It also lets them qualify anyone who says communism is dangerous garbage of "fascist" and attack them "back"

Communists sincerely believe they are the good guys

It's endearing at first, but if they can't be defused, they become literal subhumans.

>The more people cooperate, the more productive and less wasteful they become

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

>What kind of lens do you use to view Marx and other philosophers?
I put them in the context of the times they were living in, the Industrial Revolution was happening and labor unions were on the rise along with wealth inequality. Marx was right on many things but his Dialectical Materialist view on history is useless and his view of the future as seeing communism as "inevitable" is short-sighted and idiotic.

>You and what army?
The army, police, and working class of America.

I don't think it's any secret that the average Soviet citizen was poor.

>Practice is the criterion of truth.
So what does it say that every time communism is practiced, it results in mass poverty?

Genetic engineering will fix this

>communism removes competition
Someone doesn't know about Chinese students and musicians.

>Communist
>Genetics

[screams internally]

>The ends justify the means, no matter what, right komrade?
For someone who is supposed to have a hardon on ancient Rome, you have a terrible ignorance of its' conventional wisdom. Well, not surprising for a Nazi to be ignorant.
Soljenitsyn is literally nothing. A cold war propagandist, forgotten by the masses in this day and age.
Scientificized, rather than secularized. Holding religious view won't prevent you from being communist.
It isn't strictly utopic, though. There is no "end of history" in Marxism.

Unlikely. There are no socialist states today, and the governments won't benefit by making the populace genetically communist, so what's more likely to happen is genetic engineering will ensure communism will never happen.

>he thinks China is communist
on paper not in practice
>hurr durr hes dum he dont know nothing gomunism is good
The dissonance is real. How many people who actually lived under communist regimes need to tell you that its absolute shit before you believe them?

Marxism is not scientific in any way. It's an a priori value system.

>le based le peterson le clean your le room le man

>I put them in the context of the times they were living in, the Industrial Revolution was happening and labor unions were on the rise along with wealth inequality. Marx was right on many things but his Dialectical Materialist view on history is useless and his view of the future as seeing communism as "inevitable" is short-sighted and idiotic.
I see. So your lens is "I agree therefore he is great". "I disagree therefore he is shit". Pretty basic and terrible, if you ask me.
>The army, police, and working class of America.
Wow, you have such a rich imagination!

>hurr durr what is mccarthyism
What? Are you saying that because Jordan Peterson is a fan of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn that his opinions are all somehow null and void?

I read Solzhenitsyn in college long before Peterson ever became an e-celeb. Kill yourself.

They think it means no bank

>All communists are loosers and therefore communists
is the most pathetic and ignorant smear against it ever. Because the most successful people in every field of human society - top of the world - were sympathetic to it, as a matter of fact. Including capitalists, of course.

Sure you did. And they also told you that he was a shitty con artist, since it was le communist infested le college, right?

Peterson is a liberal retard though

>a philosophical vision of a perfect society
Hey you get it: communism is designed to be the perfect society. It's like the perfect energy source: it doesn't exist.

>The dissonance is real. How many people who actually lived under communist regimes need to tell you that its absolute shit before you believe them?
Majority of them, or at least the same number that hold an opinion that it is effective. Because an absolute majority of Russians, Chinese and Vietnamese approve of it.

Not having to work because someone else does it.A feeling of entitlement to what other people have, and a willingness to destroy it rather than allow them to keep it, being its impossible to actually take it from them because thats not how economics and societies works.

>replying to the same post twice because he needed more time to think of a genuinely substantive counterargument
aw sweetie that must be embarrassing for you.

Also the most successful people were never "sympathetic" to communism, that's the must patently wrong thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

It allows the weak and inferior to compete by dragging everyone else down to their level.

I don't get it either. Socialists and commies seem to hate everything, they hold nothing sacred, they seem to be offended by things that are beautiful and great. They have this bizarre urge to tear everything down. I just don't understand it. Nothing seems to piss them off more than beautiful, attractive people (masculine men and feminine women) enjoying fine activities

>Soljenitsyn is literally nothing. A cold war propagandist, forgotten by the masses in this day and age.

That some kind of logical fallacy, dismissing a statement by a disparaging remark on the person who said it instead of meeting it head on and giving a reason.

Here is the quote:
"Human beings are born with different capacities if they are free, they are not equal.
And if they are equal they are not free."

Is there something that you disagree with the statement? Don't avoid the question.

I'm not talking about Peterson, I'm talking about Solzhenitzyn.

Nope, and I actually read his final work before it was officially translated into English where he blames Jews for the rise of communism.
>le communist infested le college
You're trying to hard with your shitty meme and universities here are not like the indoctrination camps you have over there.

I honestly don't even know what point you're trying to make here m8, you're all over the show -- you have to be 18 to post here.

>an absolute majority of Russians, Chinese and Vietnamese approve of it
>citation needed

Its safe and easy fake rebellion that serves ones self interest.

>Also the most successful people were never "sympathetic" to communism, that's the must patently wrong thing I have ever heard in my entire life.
Here are some proofs for your ignorant little head.
Artist:
Pablo Picasso
Scientist:
Albert Einstein
Writer:
George Orwell
Capitalist:
Friedrich Engels

Majority of scientists and artists are sympathetic to some extent, which is clearly evident by US example, if nothing else.

as a communist all I really care about is killing rich people

>he thinks the opinions of artists matter
>he thinks Orwell was a communist sympathizer
literally fucking what lmao
>he thinks Engels was a capitalist
Engels founded Marxist theory together with Marx, idiot

Albert Einstein is the only man of substance there and he was a fucking jew

Communism is subverted disdain for tyrants put on a hamster wheel.

>Russians
newsweek.com/majority-russians-fond-lenin-and-regret-soviet-collapse-449624
>Chinese
businessinsider.com/pew-research-global-satisfaction-map-2014-2

>Majority of scientists and artists are sympathetic to some extent, which is clearly evident by US example, if nothing else.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like the Appeal to Authority fallacy.

>Honestly, what is the so-called "romantic" appeal of communism?
You can starve to death with your state-assigned mate.

When we finally got to learning about Communism in school, I was really curious and didn't learn anything which justified all the Hype and Hate. Brought it up at dinner that I didn't see what the problem was, and both my parents had the colour run out of their faces, as if I had said the Worst. Thing. Ever..

First of all, the Russian statistic is surprising. That said, support for the Soviet regime and Leninism only rests at 58% which is unsurprising considering the rising tide of leftistm around the world.

Secondly, the source which cites China is about satisfaction in the direction their country is headed, not satisfaction of a particular ideology. Furthermore, China is NOT a communist nation. Quit using China as some kind of shining example of Communist progression -- China is one of the most cut-throat capitalist nations in the world in all but name. Finally, China is a fucking oppressive dictatorship -- of course they will release numbers which reflect well on the regime.

Perhaps we should direct him to the sticky?

>try to talk shit about something you know nothing about
>be objectively wrong
>"well that's surprising"
Not to me.

>So your lens is "I agree therefore he is great". "I disagree therefore he is shit"
Do you know what Hegelian Dialectic is? Let me demonstrate it for you.
Thesis: Capitalism
Antithesis: Socialism
Synthesis: Fascism
Ergo, fascism is inevitable.

>Wow, you have such a rich imagination!
I'm not the one who thinks the working class supports communism.

>he thinks the opinions of artists matter
Your fucking point was that successful people don't support communism, you absolute moron. I showed by example, that a person who is No 1 in the field of arts actually does.
Moving on to your statement, opinions of artists matters alot - because they influence the opinions of people proportionate to their popularity.
>he thinks Orwell was a communist sympathizer
>Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.
George Orwell, Why I Write, 1946
>Engels founded Marxist theory together with Marx, idiot
And how does it stop him from being a wealthy upper class businessman?

What are you even talking about m8 -- he claimed something that sounded dubious, I asked for a source, he provided it, I was surprised. I never said he was wrong about his claim so how could I be "objectively wrong"?
This is called discourse. Fucking neck yourself.

>"i-i-i never specifically enunciated what i was clearly implying, therefore semantically speaking i was not technically wrong!"

Advocating communism and socialism is, these days, an implicit public admission of "I'm a lazy idiot and amateur to economics and political philosophy." Marx and his system have been proven wrong so many times on both a theoretical and empirical level that there's no excuse for defending such a system.

You I can excuse
But you are, as I mentioned, an absolute moron. I do not appeal to authority for communism. I contest your statement that, quote,
>Kaczynski was right -- deep down you know you're a loser and that is why you shill so hard for this dream of "equality" where those who are better than you will not be allowed to soar but instead forced to scratch around in the dirt with pathetic nobodies like you who lack the will, the mental fortitude, and the courage to provide for themselves and achieve greatness.
In order to do that, I merely have to point out successful people who support communism.

>a person who is No 1 in the field of arts actually does
Arts are subjective and Picasso is fucking garbage.

>Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.
Yes, exactly. Orwell was a self-described democratic socialist, NOT a communist, and the key words here are "as I understand it". Animal Farm is perhaps the single most scathing commentary on the failures of communism in the history of all literature, English or otherwise.

>And how does it stop him from being a wealthy upper class businessman?
You're saying that operating within and becoming successful under a capitalist regime makes you a capitalist. Engels never subscribed to capitalist ideology, he only did what he had to. Engels is one of the founding fucking fathers of communism you industrial cock inhaling autist.

Free shit.

Communism is the only hope many land whales have of ever losing weight.

By this logic nothing should ever have to be sourced because anyone asking for or requiring a source is simply outright denying the claim. kys brainlet

As a 21 year old, I can honestly see the appeal though I dont think im dumb enough to buy into it.

They've been taught their whole life that racism is evil (which it is, though Sup Forums is probably going to disregard me for saying that) and that equality is the highest thing to strive for. These same kids are energetic, angsty, and ready to fight just for the fun of it as young men are apt to do. Now here comes a bunch of elites theyve been told to respect because of the piece of papaer they hold telling them that there is a group of evil racist people who dont want equality trying to take over the country and that the most equalist of all ideologies can stop them. It gives them a reason to feel like theyre fighting for the greater good and to do violence and cause mayhem just for the fun of it.

I hope this makes sense im drunk while im writing this.

Nice job misrepresenting the chain of events.

You: "people who have lived under communism do not want communism"
Him: "actually, the absolute majority do still want communism because it was better than what they have now replacing it/continues to deliver the essentials for them"
You: "i don't believe that"
Him: "here is the evidence"
You: "i am surprised that i was wrong."

First post BEST POST

>people who have lived under communism do not want communism
You're characterizing what I've said as ALL people who have lived under communism do not want communism.

What I said was "how many people who actually lived under communist regimes need to tell you that its absolute shit before you believe them?"
This is obviously a reference to the millions of people who, after having lived behind the Iron Curtain for decades came out to say how fucking miserable it was.

You are a cancerous faggot.

Also I'll had that it's a small majority of Russians (still dubious -- only 1 source and it was NewsWeek). China, for the last bloody time, is not a Communist country and of course their numbers will be fudged anyway. Do you truly believe that 85% of Chinese, where hundreds of millions live on less than $2 a day and live in actual fucking cages, absolutely LOVE China?

Nonsensical rambling

>You're characterizing what I've said as ALL people who have lived under communism do not want communism.
Correct, because that is the implication that you were making - that there was an overwhelming sentiment that communism was not good from people who have actually experienced it.

>The People's Republic of China, run by the Chinese Communist Party, founded by Mao, is not Communist
"NOT REAL COMMUNISM" amirite?

You do realize that China is fascist, right?
>single party state
>private property exists but is controlled by the government to serve the interests of the nation
>the nation has its own internet to keep out foreign influences
>propaganda is everywhere and military marches are routine, instilling a sense of loyalty and pride in the people
>the Chinese government is attempting to bring back Chinese culture after communism destroyed much of it
>scientific progress is highly valued and the nation is making great strides in the fields of AI, genetic engineering, and space exploration
>foreign elements such as Islam and Christianity are suppressed or controlled by state churches
>the nation values military strength and is making efforts to ensure that its security is defended through military power

>George Orwell
Hahahahahahahaha
>1984
>Animal farm

If you live in communism then workers just sit back doing nothing and waiting for the government to pay to sustain their life

Orwell was a communist. He just didn't like the totalitarian nature of most regimes.

>implying implications
wew lad
Also I would argue that there is still an overwhelming sentiment that communism is not good from the people who have experienced it. I would say a great deal of Russians who think it's a good idea are young liberals -- people who never experienced life in Soviet Russia. I would also say that many millions immigrated following the collapse of the USSR -- not only from Russia but from the Eastern Bloc. Moreover, I would say that most Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, etc would still say that communism is a terrible idea.

>NOT REAL COMMUNISM blah blah blah whatever bullshit argument you've made this time
China is communist on paper. If you genuinely believe that China is a communist state in practice then you're dumber than everyone already thinks. It maintains the communist label as a pretense to portray the dictatorship as a "peoples party" -- that they act only in the interests of the people while in reality they act in their own interests and in the interests of the Chinese oligarchs.

Yes, but they are only sustained to the bare minimum.

>Orwell was a communist.
He wasent for long

thats how you starve to death

>Honestly, what is the so-called "romantic" appeal of communism?
The belief that humanity can achieve total equality economically, despite being opposite of human nature. That is what leftists professors push onto students

>Also I would argue that there is still an overwhelming sentiment that communism is not good from the people who have experienced it
So you've already been wrong once and your strategy in response to that is to double down and pray that your guess is correct this time?

>muh China isn't communist
But the USSR was?

That's the point you moron. The same logic you use to deny the communism of China can be used to deny the communism of the USSR, but you apply it selectively only to China so that you can blame communism for failure and take credit for success. You're a hypocrite and a brainlet.

You will continue to make bad arguments that are only coherent in isolation, and not in a broader context, and you will continue to make wild guesses based on zero research and be "surprised" when they are wrong. You are a waste of everybody's time. Do not expect further reply.