Neon Genesis Evangelion

Why do so many people worship this so much? Don't get me wrong its not terrible but so many of the characters are either bland, uninteresting or fucking annoying. Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3. Why is this seen as one of the most talked about classic anime of the era? Is it just the nostalgia or something more?

And that fucking ending. Both of them. Both incredibly stupid and unsatisfying. If people like this, then fine, but please explain to me why so many people love it. Is it just nostalgia? Was just because it was deep? It wasn't all terrible, I liked the fighting animation, but other than that it didn't really seem to stick out to me. Please red pill me on this series/movie, because I don't see the appeal.

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>characters are either bland, uninteresting or fucking annoying. Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3

its like you didnt even watch it

>red pill
Fuck off with your shitty bait Sup Forums

Please leave Bryan.

Just go watch Bebop again.

I did. Shinji is fucking annoying. He quit piloting the EVA 3 times, whined constantly throughout the series, and had too many monologue scenes about how everyone hated him with looped animation that dragged on forever

Answer my damn question you commie

bump

I honestly don't get it either.

The entire time I was watching the anime I felt like I was forcing myself. It was honestly pretty fucking bad. People always tell me "it's because you have to connect with Shinji" but literally at the time of watching it I was at the most suicidal part of my life.....and I still hated the shit out of him.

Maybe I just have shit taste, idk. I honestly hate this anime quite a lot. The fans don't help it either, especially when they say "omg, go read outside sources and watch the movies" no. Fuck off. I got it, but I thought it was stupid regardless.

>Why do so many people worship this so much?
Compared to a lot of other anime Eva is much better in a lot of ways. Animation, music, direction, attention to characters, etc.

If you haven't seen a couple hundred anime you won't sympathize with those who have, and realize how Eva goes above and beyond what was expected at that time or now.

>Especially Shinj. He manages to be all 3.
Nah, he just isn't your Spike/Naruto/Goku self-insert. Characters are boring when they are just great at everything, especially when you see those characters over and over and over again. Goku is boring, Naruto is boring, Spike is boring but relatively better because he at least isn't obnoxious about how great he is. You might as well bitch about Shakepseare's Hamlet. Main characters don't have to be your vicarious life, they can be wildly different, with tragedy being the most interesting.

>Why is this seen as one of the most talked about classic anime of the era? Is it just the nostalgia or something more?
It changed anime in many ways, as well as being very popular.

>And that fucking ending. Both of them.
Be specific.

literally the best anime of all time

Reminder that Neon Genesis Evangelion is just an autistic worse version of Mobile Suit Gundam and Space Runaway Ideon. Anyone who says it is a "deconstruction" has only seen less than 10 other animes, all of which were made after 2000. Everything that Evangelion is known for was done better 15 years earlier by the master Tomino. The only reason Eva became popular is because it pandered more to pervert pedophiles (most anime fans, especially Sup Forums.) Evangelion is the go-to anime for newfag plebs. They say it has "deep" characters but they really only like it because the 14 year olds show a lot of skin. A big difference between Gundam and Eva is that 0079 has one of the best endings in anime history and Evangelion has not one, but two of the worst.

0080 war in the pocket is better and it wasn't directed by Tomino.

Even then, it is just another war horror story

People don't worship it. They appreciate it. Excepting the '2 deep 4 u' crowd, most people who watch Evangelion look to it as a classic period piece, one of the first really popular mecha deconstructions-- not to mention one of the first also to be widely released in the west.

The endings suck. We know. We've been talking about them for decades. Shinji is a little bitch. We know. We've been around long enough for the rebuild movies to literally try to retcon him a pair of balls. The fights are cool and the world is interesting.

In a nutshell: Popularity more than nostalgia; a jazzier word for it would be "iconic". People compared everything to Eva because it had just that much impact. It doesn't matter that RaXephon was a smoother ride and other shows played with its themes better; Eva sticks with people.

Ignore this fuck. Putting Eva on a pedestal is what gets us 'what the fuck did I just watch' tier responses.

...

Hi Brandon I didn't you posted here

>The entire time I was watching the anime I felt like I was forcing myself.
Same here! The only time I could watch it is either when I was eating or cleaning up something. Sitting down and watching it almost made fall asleep.


>Maybe I just have shit taste

I thought that to, but no, fuck that. Some the same people that have recommended me this anime have recommended other series such as Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun. And those were all fucking awesome. Its mainly This that came off as awful to me. Not completely. But still. Its nothing special

Not ignoring him, he makes a valid point. I just didn't feel the impact at all. A lot of other recommendations that I keep seeing or getting end up actually being really good. This came off as "meh".

>RaXephon

Shit sucks m8

>The endings suck. We know. We've been talking about them for decades.
>Putting Eva on a pedestal is what gets us 'what the fuck did I just watch' tier responses.

You talk as if we all agree that the endings are bad, but that isn't possible if so many have to put Eva on a pedestal to get this response

>Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun.Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Golden boy, and Trigun.

Bryan stop

This is a toonami of bait

...

On one hand, fair, EoE is actually not a bad ride, but it's not what people go to when they have to sell Eva.

On the other hand, Oye fuck off mate I will sing you to death!

RaXephon only gets hate compared to Eva I think. Put aside, I think it was a better show, but that's just my opinion.

>Be specific.
I hated that Shinji's whole deal was WAAAAAAAH, everyone hates me! And the end was just him getting reassurance that they didn't and he liked being himself, rather than a big final battle.

And as for the movie ending, pic related.

Be honest with me m8, which did you see first?

I've met only one person who likes RaXephon better than Eva and it is because he saw it before Eva. Besides that we agree on nearly everything regarding taste

The point of the movie ending is that anybody can come back if they want to, not that they all died

>And as for the movie ending, pic related.

What did you think of Hamlet?
You see how retarded it sounds to say "I didn't like Hamlet because everyone died at the end"? I get it, it is current year, but bite size arguments aren't going to cut it.

>And the end was just him getting reassurance that they didn't and he liked being himself, rather than a big final battle.
That isn't what happened at the ending. Original 25-26 yes, but then EoE comes in and changes that.

>a big final battle.
Do you know how many Transformer films you can watch anytime you want? How old are you?

>just hit me I hate a lot of the animes that take heavy influence from Eva

Makes sense, tbqh senpai.

This is the way most Eva-fags respond whenever anyone questions the idea that the characters were brilliantly written and possess unparalleled psychological depth.

>Nah, he just isn't your Spike/Naruto/Goku self-insert.

And this is another one of their goto responses. If someone doesn't care for Shinji they assume they're complaining about him not being the macho hero type they supposedly expect (even though he does always get in the Eva and is passionate as hell about saving everyone he cares about), as opposed to just not finding the character to be all that interesting. Even despite the fact that Shinji gets a tons of "you can literally see into my mind" scenes, there's barely anything worthwhile there, as these scenes are effectively used by Anno to go on about issues he has, rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.

But thats the point, part of what anno was doing was showing how fucking traumatic it would be to put the weight of the world on a 14-year olds shoulders. Mix in the parental issues everyone has and you get some damaged people.

I saw Eva first; though truth told I've never managed to sit through EoE, thanks to what can only be called karmic interruptions.

Really I give it more credit and like it better for 3 reasons:
1. Episode 19 fucked me up. That shit was tragic.
2. I thought the Mulians made for a more cohesive and directed plot with a clear antagonist and played with themes of alienation and distrust very nicely.
3. RaXephon had the balls to make equivalent 'ShinjiXMisato' not only cannon, but the best pairing. (special condolences to Megumi, she didn't stand a chance since she wasn't even born

Don't get me wrong, Eva's great. It's just RaXephon does serious WORK.

Another thing, why do people waifu this bitch so much? Please tell me its just a fetish thing. She wasn't that bad but she wasn't that interesting either

This has to be bait

I can see how people would not like Evangelion, but if you're like me and try and analyze every aspect of a show down to the bone then NGE is absolutely amazing.

>great animation
>great soundtrack
>fluid sound direction
>lovely visuals
>character development

Whether you like Shinji or not, he is a very great mimic of kids in today's society. I think his personality, although contrasting to the widespread opinion, is well-developed and thought-out. Especially the episode where he struggles with his feelings toward Kaworu, very real.

If there is any anime you like that was made after Eva and it wasn't
-a children's show
-a mecha show
-an adaptation

Then it's because of Eva that it even exists

>as these scenes are effectively used by Anno to go on about issues he has, rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.
These are not mutually exclusive.

Authors usually put something of themselves in their art. Anno's main character having similar problems to his own is not a sign of the character being uninteresting outright.

>there's barely anything worthwhile there
Relative to what? There is plenty worthwhile there

The fact that you are not sart enough to understand evangelion, does not make evangelion bad.

>Do you know how many Transformer films you can watch anytime you want? How old are you?
I was just suggesting an better ending. It could have just been reconnecting with his dad. Not "YAY ME! I'M A PERSON!

You can keep repeating this however you want, but from what we actually see what happens is almost comically, ridiculously horrible and the fate of anything resembling civilization, let alone the basic identity of the characters, is left ambiguous. I don't see you you can take any of this a face value, in any of the endings.

>The endings suck. We know.
Maybe if you believe that really hard it will come true.

>other shows played with its themes better
>Shinji is a little bitch
And this post tell me you are not qualified to argue about the quality of thematic execution of anything.

If Eva haters actually bothered to google what makes the characters in EVA above and beyond 99,9% of anime characters they wouldn't be making asses of themselves. Here, I did it for you youtube.com/watch?v=o4UQntM4Zjw

And then we have these folks who make Eva even worse.

>kek you just DON'T GET IT LOL

It's like talking to GTR R35 fanboys.

What's bad about an insecure character like Shinji struggling and resolving personal issues?
Just because there was no big fight scene at the end doesn't mean it's bad, because there's still a big climax.

Evangelion is like a metaphor for life.

>rather than adding much depth to the characters or drama themselves.

So when Shinji has flashbacks of his father leaving and he screams that he doesn't want to be left alone that doesn't add to his character or drama?
When Asuka gets mindfucked by the angel and we see her past and how her mothers behaviour scared her for life that doesn't add to her character or personality?

Because she's a tragic character and people want to help her.

I love this game.

>"YAY ME! I'M A PERSON!
>End of Eva

Who in the FUCK thinks the word YAY is relevant during One More Final I Need You?

I was baited hard.

Fuck you Bryan.

But he is actually right, you know?
You seem like the kind of guy who would say "all modern art is trash, I could do it better", without knowing fuck all about it.

Oh civilization is most certainly destroyed for sure yes, but the fact of the matter is that everybody isn't dead, they're just Tanged

Bruh, we're a bunch of grognards on an imageboard for korean cavepaintings.

Nobody is fucking qualified for anything.

Shinji is a little bitch. This does not make him a bad character, in fact if he was less of a bitch it would fuck up his whole character. He craves acceptance and acknowledgement, above all from his estranged, distant and downright vile father. He's a momma's boy who no longer has mama COUGH and that's a huge part of who he is.

So go wank off on your creative writing degree and stop looking down on people from that ten foot pole up your ass.

Yui literally tells Shinji everyone can come back at the end of Human Instrumentality

Asuka came back. How the fuck else does she end up there? Them being the only two that are back is telling of the other characters. Yet another strong moment lost to you.

You just weren't paying attention my man

I swear people who go "Rahxephon was better than Evangelion" are just contrarians. Not saying it was bad, but the pacing was very slow, the characters were less engaging and it had THE SAME FUCKING ENDING. Like copy paste. Chosen boy gets to redefine our physical reality to coincide with existentialist revelation. Bokurano was better than Rahxephon

But shinji is shit dude. I love the series but is like the epitome of being a faggot.

>The fact that you are not sart enough
>Sart

user I understood it fine. Story-wise anyway. I didn't say it was completely bad. There were some really good scene in there. I didn't see way it was seen as "anime gold" is all. To be honest there were as few points in Akria where I didn't know what the fuck was going on but I didn't think it was bad, and I understand the appeal. I just think I need to watch it again. Evengelion however, I didn't feel the same way.

Oh look, it's yet another anti-eva thread!!!

Who knows, I might like Bokurano more, but I haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. I outlined reasons I liked RaXephon more up here: Hell, I might even change my mind about Eva if I end up liking rebuild.

People like rebuild right?

>user I understood it fine.
> Akria where I didn't know what the fuck was going on

No bro you are just retarded. Akira is straight and clear as fuck

I don't come to Sup Forums very often so you'll have to give me a free ass. I'm from Sup Forums. Everyday we have shitty threads about Batman raping the Joker. Came here to escape, and get opinions

Bait is bad for the soul user

Nice facebook image.

To the people who think Eva is overrated, what's your favourite anime? Just curious.

>I'm from Sup Forums.
Oh for fucks sake, come on, don't admit that

>Relative to what? There is plenty worthwhile there

If you view Eva as "something that portrays the psychological warped state of mind the people creating it possessed", then it is absolutely brilliant and first class at that. There's constant expressions of guilt, uncertainty, anxiety, fear of death and the collapse of society, concern about understanding and living up to what others expect of them, the rude "black dog" of depression turning everything in to a hazy grey in which you cannot reason up a purpose to being. All this is there.

But viewed as a drama? As a study of characters, their internal lives and how they interact? As something that offers tightly written dialog? In these ways Eva greatly falls shot of being what its fans portray it as being and seldom offers satisfaction in these areas.

My bad. I'm being a bit of a dick, but I actually kinda mean it.

Bokurano is definitely higher on my backlog... but soul crushing anime is hard to get started on.

Soo, this thread is full or normies who have seen less than 10 anime, and a bunch of Eva-haters who sympathize with them?

Feels good to be right.

You took the term way to literally. My point was that someone who would rather see a superficial flashy fight scene than the existing well executed thematic catharsis isn't someone who has credibility when talking about themes.

>Bokurano was better than Rahxephon
Isn't bokurano just misery for the sake of misery?

The fact that I can't even remember who the Mulians were, speaks to their memorability. And the show doesn't have to "have the balls" to pair anyone together. Shinji was a dysfunctional human being and that played out in his personal relationships. And if you can't finish EoE that's your problem. EoE is fantastic.

>Main characters don't have to be your vicarious life, they can be wildly different, with tragedy being the most interesting.
Grass on my side of the fence is MUCH BETTER hurr durr!

"Misery for misery's sake" you could say that about anything. Ultimately, misery is an evocative emotion

>But viewed as a drama? As a study of characters, their internal lives and how they interact? As something that offers tightly written dialog? In these ways Eva greatly falls shot of being what its fans portray it as being and seldom offers satisfaction in these areas.

Nah man. Look at Asuka as one example. Brings an agenda to how she treats any character which drives her to dealing with people in very different ways. Drama between her and the other pilots. The dialog between her and shinji is tight. It has weaker moments, but for example, when they kiss is a strong moment. She does it with him, says nothing, runs away (making us worry), and instead she makes a joke out of it. In reality we should be worried about her, and she constantly shows this through her worsening attitude towards Shinji.

I mean you're just wrong at this level. I can get it isn't your favorite, but it has good writing most of the time, which is far and beyond most anime which is utter shit and garbage.

Curious, what do you think is better than Eva?

That isn't what I said.

There are people you agree with doing a much better job of representing your side right now. Stop fucking it up for them

Right now? I'm in debate around Goddannar, Outlaw Star, and Gate.

EoE is fucking great.

I've read plenty of books I didn't enjoy, that doesn't make them bad. Evangelion has its fair share problems but has a lot going for it.

Its like LoGH; people bitch about it without actually providing meaningful criticism.

Problems with Eva:
-Magma Diver, all of it.
-Pacing problems [Nerv/Lilith backstory, early episodes, ect.]
-Powerpoint animation in later episodes.

Characters have lots of depth for a 26 episode show. Story is dark, unconventional, and layered like an onion. Mechs/characters/world are well designed. The show is "well shot", has a great atmosphere, and is very memorable. I love NGE's message as well.

Please recommend me better shows oh enlightened one. I wish to bask in your unquestionable wisdom.

Asuka is female version of 15 year old me.

Its been 20 years now and lots of people still like it, I really don't know what to tell you.

>pairing Outlaw Star with Gate

Bitch I didn't even know the EDF was still in town.

Everyone in this thread is comparing the height of their high horses and I'm just trying to talk about the show.

RE: catharsis verses 'robots punching a bit': I'd like to have both in a show if I can manage. You'll find I was supporting your point to begin with, I just took exception to being talked down to.

RE: The relationship: Eva wrote shinji's emotional attachment to the three main heroines fairly well as well as including Misato's own personal scars. RaXephon manages to amp specifically the Misato-Shinji thing up to 11 while managing to tie it relevantly to the plot. Goddamn magic. That's what I was referring to as "having the balls" to go for it.

> your side right now
tip top kek.

Well, from what I've read that's exactly what you've written, and that's exactly, what's in your post. If not please, oh please, enlighten me on your opinion faggot.

>normies

Get out

>kek

You can fuck off too, Sup Forums rat.

>Magma Diver, all of it.

It showed how everyone at NERV is risking their lives. If they fucked up the operation, the military was going to bomb the shit out of the area.
It helped to balance out the goofy, less serious tone Asuka brought to the show.
It showed that Asuka is pretty smart for her age and doesn't always act like a bitch.
Continued building the "rivalry" between Asuka and Rei.
Showed that Shinji can act and be heroic.
The episode wasn't perfect but it wasn't utter trash.

People always complain about the animation at the end but I think it really helped to convey a certain atmosphere. Maybe that's just me though.

>Favourite anime
>Gate
Hahahahaha, as expected by people who think Eva is overrated

If you watch the same episode of any show a thousand times, will it ever get boring? Ever?

Eventually people get tired of watching the same shit over and over, and so variety becomes nice. This doesn't have to do with "relativism" which is what you were getting at with your my side of the fence comment.

Meaning, you misread what I said. You thought I was saying "everything is fair game and relative, but I still think my side is better", when I was saying "this is why people like this show, a cowardly character is different from Goku-ver.14430"

Even if I wanted to make the relativist argument, we are still allowed to say why we like what we like. You coming in and screaming "but everything is relative!!" is redundant and stupid.

I think it has a lot to do with your personal sensibility and how you relate with the show's development and characters.

NGE was one of my first anime and after rewatching it a few days ago it's still my favorite.

The soundtrack also isn't given enough credit (aside from the tumbling down meme).
Mother is the first other, Splitting of the breast, and Emergency evacuation to regression for example.

Come on man, Magma Diver is pretty bad.

Besides the recap what episode can be worse than it (disregarding 25-26)

I like the setting of fantasy and military gunning each other down. And Gurren Lagann and Trigun are up there as well but I'm probably going to get shit on for liking that too aren't I?

it's been 20 years you fat fucks

the sole fact that you still argue about it means that Eva was, is and shall remain a thought-provoking masterpiece, because it provokes fucking thoughts of all kinds

What happens in Magma Diver? The episode where Shinji and Asuka play DDR was kinda silly

>catharsis verses 'robots punching a bit': I'd like to have both in a show if I can manage.
I don't see the problem then. Fist half of EoE you've got the robots punching each other, while in second half you get the catharsis. The "overcoming psychological flaws during fights" we see in shounes aren't very convincing to me.

The Flow of Em
Anxiety
Jesus, Joy of Man's Desire
Hole In The Dream

Too good

>So when Shinji has flashbacks of his father leaving and he screams that he doesn't want to be left alone that doesn't add to his character or drama?
>When Asuka gets mindfucked by the angel and we see her past and how her mothers behaviour scared her for life that doesn't add to her character or personality?

Yes, those two scenes are specifically what I'm talking about, both of them were woefully unsatisfying and specifically stick out in my mind because of this. With Shinji, you get just barely enough background to understand his basic emotions and motivation, but nothing more. You don't really get much of an impression of what his life was like before or what this transition means to him, if anything.

With Asuka, it's a whole other thing. I somewhat enjoyed watching that scene, if solely because of the glorious fuckery of using Handel's Messiah during it. But judged on the writing and what it does with Asuka? I found it extremely difficult to give a shit about anything going on at that point. Making a shallow, judgmental character and then later chalking this up to her mother cracking it (for whatever deep lore reason) just does absolutely nothing for me. The repetition also doesn't drive home the impact of anything and nothing about it felt particularly subtle (except the aforementioned 'ironic' choice of music). It just comes off as tryhard.

>Jesus, Joy of Man's Desire
Forgot this one, it's great as well.

Solving an existential crisis makes for bad battle manga, but I digress.

the repetition and static shots is just Anno's thing

every creator leaves fingerprints on his works

Nah man, Gurren and Trigun are classics. Although I don't think Trigun has aged very well. Gate is just poorly written

You answered it yourself. I'm not arguing about taste, but your arguments can't be taken seriously if that's what you consider the best examples of the medium.
Watch a lot of other series (and by a lot I mean it), then maybe give a try to Eva again, while trying to have a bit more attention.
It's not a series you can watch with your mind shut off like those you listed. If you have doubts again after just take 30min of reading and you'll easily find explanation for whatever was not clear or you missed.

>With Shinji, you get just barely enough background to understand his basic emotions and motivation, but nothing more.

In that one single scene it does enough. This is brought up again and again from different angles.

We get to see Shinji as a child at the experiment where his mother dies, his father changes away from Shinji, his comments about his father in episode 1 with the confrontation, them visiting the funeral together, etc.

It all connects and adds more. His father left him and Shinji developed in a specific way to deal with it. The whole hedgehog dilemma. This starts off as more timid and quiet, not wanting to talk, accepting him being beat up, running away, etc. It then becomes self-hate and self-frustration when Misato gets in his face that he needs to help others right now, and so he flips and says what about me. This comes as childish but it makes sense when this is all going on with him.

etc.etc.etc.

These characters have depth. You don't have to like them, but they are not shallow when we look at anime. Maybe for literature they are no where near the top but for anime they are up there.

Wait people like Gate?

Trigun is top tier and Gurren is alright/fun. I can see why you didn't like Evangelion with the shows listed. Watch more shows desu.

I love the DDR episode :^(

there's no reason to assume that Shinji's the main character of the show, though

I think no episode of NGE was outright bad.
But if I had to pick the worst one it would be the one with the Virus Angel.

But the point of the scene with Shinji is to show why he has daddy issues. What does it matter what his live looked like, we know he was abandoned and he turned into a whiny faggot.

The thing about the Asuka scene is that it makes her actions perfectly reasonable.
For example, when in the scene she screams about how she's an adult and doesn't want to be treated like a child it makes her attempts at fucking Kaiji reasonable.
She's not a shallow character and it's not just "hur dur she's a bitch because her mother sucked".

It's Pen² I knew it.

Hey now slow your roll slim jim. Don't be dicking on Gurren and Trigun.

Why was Gendo so cold towards Shinji?
It wasn't even putting distance between him and his son at that point, he was just an asshole. How could he not realize that he was fucking him up by doing this?

Gendo is Shinji, user

their personalities are perfectly symmetrical

Could you elaborate? They're nothing alike

Haha I didn't say it was bad user. Just silly

Gendo is terrified of opening open up to people and getting hurt. He acts as an adult Shinji in a way.

>Curious, what do you think is better than Eva?

Sailor Moon

But he's cold, assertive and ruthless. Shinji's the opposite of that.

It still doesn't explain why he would feel compelled to act like a huge dick towards his son. He could at least be a little less callous.

I'm not saying they are bad, infact I think they are entertaining solid shows. It's just that people who list those (and way worse titles like Gate), have often watched a dozen shows at best.

You're not wrong