Syria General /sg/- Back To DeZ Edition

Archive/Study/Research/Library
>syriagenerals.wordpress.com

>SOUTHFRONT Oct2
youtube.com/watch?v=Gd-rguFkTkE
youtu.be/dt5ZWNybpAg (Afghanistan Sep30)

>Newest Interviews with Assad
youtu.be/UlXRv8tf5Z8
youtu.be/arHsOcXeN2Q

>Live MAPS
globaleventmap.org
syria.liveuamap.com
militarymaps.info

>Fan maps
twitter.com/PetoLucem
twitter.com/miladvisor
twitter.com/a7_mirza
twitter.com/hamza_780
edmaps.com

RECENT MAPS
>DeZ Oct 1
imgur.com/a/PtNrJ
>SE Syria oct 1
imgur.com/a/s0Ici
>E Salamiyah Oct 1
i.imgur.com/UNSjJwa.jpg
>Palmyra-DeZ Highway Sep30
imgur.com/a/prVed
>Raqqa Sep28
i.imgur.com/vntW6fO.jpg
>N Hama Sep19
imgur.com/a/VrjdL
>Random by Padre Oct 1
imgur.com/a/FqYGr

Developments Oct 1
>Sukhnah-DeZ
Amaq:IS new attack capture E al-Hayr Palace, Tayba & Shanhas villages, NE al-Sukhnah. Claims 80+ SAA dead near al-Sukhnah&T3 station
Gov:SAA repelled previous IS attack & recapture lost positions S and W of al-Sukhnah &near Hail gas field
Unconfirmed:Tiger forces redeployed to DeZ, in order to lead attack on Mayadin
SDF seized the Jirah oil field from IS N.E. DeZ, now able to cutoff SAA from the rest of oil fields in area
IS counducts counter-attack against SDF in N DeZ capturing al-Saad village, killing 4
SDF captures al-Kubar village SW DeZ, claims SAA shells its positions afterwards
>Nasrallah:Kurdish independence part of US-Iraeli plot to open the door to partition and endless war
>Raqqa:SDF capture main IS HQ
>SAA,Hez, advance 4km on the highway between Humaymah village and the T-2 station
>SAA takes control of more land in S Syria, paving way for future operations. Liberated 135Km2
>Unconfirmed:Turkish forces start entering idlib prov under de-escalation agreement
>Iraqi army, PMU capture strategic Mishak town and 34 villages in Hawija area


Prev

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/0FNtEWfay_8
youtu.be/LULzvg1gA5U
youtu.be/fbEMlqrhlSg
youtu.be/VfyDgDTu0Go
youtu.be/Yc-RmAVK8Pg
youtu.be/8prwbWLa7f0
youtu.be/L4vD6JpJAFI
youtu.be/OJZRvp6w4wc
youtu.be/U3LTTbOYVfU
youtu.be/_S_zmlDuGKU
youtu.be/T634A6AWR9c
youtu.be/aG_SutViEmQ
youtu.be/zHoeU9mZ1Xss
youtu.be/g1VNQGsiP8M
youtu.be/qOKOwgeFcG4
archive.is/U7MYi
youtu.be/_pGAcv-cvA4
youtu.be/8aAaReVn2I4
youtu.be/Es7oBV6b43Y
youtu.be/tseqwNIXhDQ
youtu.be/9nj6fc69qjM
youtu.be/8LnVHw96jFs
youtu.be/ro1byfe5vUM
drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9sFK8tMo4H7LW56WWlpdDRIRnc
pastebin.com/cDL3mv0w
vimeo.com/18781528
youtu.be/t98PD6KCg2Q
twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/914848203513753600
syria.mil.ru/peacemaking_bulletins.htm
sana.sy/en/?p=114916
sana.sy/en/?p=114876
sana.sy/ru/?p=121440
sana.sy/en/?p=114902
sana.sy/ru/?p=121469
sana.sy/en/?p=114911
sana.sy/ru/?p=121483
sana.sy/en/?p=114869
sana.sy/en/?p=114899
sana.sy/en/?p=114923
free-news.su/analitika/23576-vrag-moego-vraga-moj-drug
sana.sy/en/?p=114890
bmpd.livejournal.com/2874698.html
free-news.su/voennye-konflikty/23588-vs-sar-sdvigayutsya-s-mertvoj-tochki
free-news.su/politika/23584-priostanovleno-osvobozhdenie-rakki
ria.ru/syria/20171001/1505942424.html
muraselon.com/en/2017/10/hama-map-update-exclusive-syrian-army-captures-new-villages-central-syria/
sana.sy/en/?p=114907
businessinsider.com/israel-is-going-to-war-in-syria-to-fight-iran-2017-9
archive.is/wjqOv
su-27flanker.com/2015/06/11/su-34-fullback-overrun-runaway-at-voronezh-airbase/#
youtube.com/watch?v=uC1yefDvxQg
unian.info/multimedia/photo/121071-posledstviya-vzryivov-v-kalinovke.html
youtube.com/watch?v=kgkYN3QjD5M
mod.gov.sy/index.php?node=5642&nid=22541&First=0&Last=8574&CurrentPage=0&FD=&TD=&&ctr=655
youtube.com/watch?v=G0uxG0qdIZM
telesurtv.net/english/news/US-Warplane-Drop-Banned-White-Phosphorus-Bomb-on-Syria-20170927-0017.html
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=P325Mr05LYw
archive.is/laiGt
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

For Assad!

>red pill must watch videos

American senator tells the other side of the story: youtu.be/0FNtEWfay_8
>Ron Paul youtu.be/LULzvg1gA5U | youtu.be/fbEMlqrhlSg
Virginia senator on Aleppo: youtu.be/VfyDgDTu0Go
>UN Neutral report on "War Crimes" in Syria: youtu.be/Yc-RmAVK8Pg
Syria: Not a Revolution: youtu.be/8prwbWLa7f0
>Pipelines and Syria: youtu.be/L4vD6JpJAFI
SyrianGirlPartisan: youtu.be/OJZRvp6w4wc
>Syria ambassador in USA: youtu.be/U3LTTbOYVfU
Women under Bashar youtu.be/_S_zmlDuGKU
>The Face of American Regime Change: youtu.be/T634A6AWR9c
Assad visits monastery for Christmas: youtu.be/aG_SutViEmQ
>Soldier met family after 5 years: youtu.be/zHoeU9mZ1Xss
Canadian Journalist Expose The Lies of Syria: youtu.be/g1VNQGsiP8M

===
"Chemical attacks" in Khan Shiekoun on April 4 by MIT profesor
youtu.be/qOKOwgeFcG4
archive.is/U7MYi or www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/04/67182.html
>Assad: Chemical Attack Fabrication youtu.be/_pGAcv-cvA4

===
>THE TRUTH ABOUT White helmets:
youtu.be/8aAaReVn2I4
youtu.be/Es7oBV6b43Y
youtu.be/tseqwNIXhDQ
White helmets killing a child for UN youtu.be/9nj6fc69qjM
Staging CW attack videos youtu.be/8LnVHw96jFs

===
NGO’s and hybrid warfare: youtu.be/ro1byfe5vUM
===
WikiLeaks: Turkish oil minister links to Isis oil trade
- wikileaks.org/berats-box/article
Top aide to Hillary Clinton: :Al-Qaeda is on our side in Syria
- wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/23225
===
/sg visits Army 2017 - myalbum.com/album/seYvACY7CtIm
Aleppobro takes pix for /sg - drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9sFK8tMo4H7LW56WWlpdDRIRnc
muh gas - pastebin.com/cDL3mv0w
===
Thread reminder to watch Threads.
vimeo.com/18781528

youtu.be/t98PD6KCg2Q

How the fuck does he have a PhD?
twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/914848203513753600

Victory for Arab Baathism!

Updated by Polandbro POLITICS/ECONOMY

Reminder to check the Russian Peacemaking Bulletin!
>syria.mil.ru/peacemaking_bulletins.htm

Huge humanitarian aid convoys still entering DeZ
>sana.sy/en/?p=114916

SANA updates:
>sana.sy/en/?p=114876
>sana.sy/ru/?p=121440

Syrian MFA met with RF delegation:
>sana.sy/en/?p=114902
>sana.sy/ru/?p=121469

Suprise suprise Syrian Parliament praises relations with Russia:
>sana.sy/en/?p=114911
>sana.sy/ru/?p=121483
Note: that's the new appointed Christian guy

RF delegation had talks with Syrians about using gas and oil reserves:
>sana.sy/en/?p=114869

Armenian envoy interview with SANA
>sana.sy/en/?p=114899

Plan for budget ready for 2018
>sana.sy/en/?p=114923

Idleb Tribals are getting ready for fighting Nusra
>free-news.su/analitika/23576-vrag-moego-vraga-moj-drug

Festival of culture in Latakia, it's interesting, exotic
>sana.sy/en/?p=114890

WAR

S400 in DeZ?
bmpd.livejournal.com/2874698.html

Details about Ghouta recent clashes
>free-news.su/voennye-konflikty/23588-vs-sar-sdvigayutsya-s-mertvoj-tochki

Operations in Raqqa halted
>free-news.su/politika/23584-priostanovleno-osvobozhdenie-rakki

Quariatain heavy clashes
>ria.ru/syria/20171001/1505942424.html

Akarabat Kotel will be 2 Kotels soon
>muraselon.com/en/2017/10/hama-map-update-exclusive-syrian-army-captures-new-villages-central-syria/

Another Coalition massacre on civilians
>sana.sy/en/?p=114907

Does the government even want the oil fiends in eastern DeZ, or do they want more Kurdish cummies in their ass? Why the fuck attack al Tanf and t3 when the fight is in DeZ.

Ive seen dumber people get a PhD. Also, he most probably is paid to say these things.

They're advancing on Mayadin right now.

Either :
1) the SAA wants to get rid of ISIS to have a stronger case against the kurdish terrorists to back the fuck off
OR
2) the SAA is too worried about attacking the kurds with their American buddies and Russia doesnt want confrontation.

Nice numbers.
Just saw you posted the short links to Southfront but I missed them before I baked.

>/sg/ slow because everyone is talking about that boomer burger

Bomb

Updates from prev bread

Why is this allowed??

why are you thinking of leaving lad

wut

Np USbro! Thanx for baking!

>Israel is going to war in Syria — to fight Iran

Israeli officials believe that Iran is winning its bid for dominance in the Middle East, and they are mobilizing to counter the regional realignment that threatens to follow. The focus of Israel’s military and diplomatic campaign is Syria.
>Israeli jets have struck Hezbollah and Syrian regime facilities and convoys dozens of times during Syria’s civil war, with the goal of preventing the transfer of weapons systems from Iran to Hezbollah.

Israel has so far thwarted these ambitions in two ways. First, it has launched attacks to frustrate and interdict attempts to build a paramilitary infrastructure in the area. Most famously, the killing of Jihad Mughniyeh, son of Hezbollah military chief Imad Mughniyeh, in a targeted strike at Mazraat Amal in the Quneitra area in January 2015 was part of this effort. Five other Hezbollah members and a general of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, Mohammad Allahdadi, were also killed in the strike.

>Second, Israel has developed pragmatic working relations with the local rebel groups who at the moment still control the greater part of the border, such as the Fursan al-Joulan group. This cooperation focuses on treating wounded fighters and civilians, and providing humanitarian aid and financial assistance. There has also probably been assistance in the field of intelligence, though no evidence has yet emerged of direct provision of weapons or direct engagement of Israeli forces on the rebels’ behalf.

businessinsider.com/israel-is-going-to-war-in-syria-to-fight-iran-2017-9

>mfw kikeland is the manlet of nations

The ggovernemt can fight ISIS in east DeZ and still keep one of their largest oil reserves, also the US know if they fuck with the government too much then that gives the government solid reason to fucking kill every Kurd in the continent, with Turkey and Iraqs backing.

>Vehicle attack kills one American service member, wounds another in Iraq

One American service member was killed and another was wounded during an improvised explosive strike Sunday in Iraq, raising to at least 13 the number of U.S. troops killed while fighting the Islamic State there and in neighboring Syria.

U.S. military officials have not disclosed either service member’s name, pending family notifications, nor have they said where in Iraq the incident occurred. Those speaking with The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity confirmed only that the attack involved Americans.

In a statement, the U.S.-led coalition in Baghdad indicated that the explosive targeted a vehicle.

Since January, at least five U.S. troops have been killed in action as part of the Pentagon’s operation to oust the Islamic State from its main strongholds, according to Defense Department data. Another 25 have been wounded by hostile action.

Sunday’s attack comes one week after a French special operations soldier was killed battling the militant group, marking that nation’s first combat fatality in Iraq and Syria — though officials did not specify where it occurred.

archive.is/wjqOv

Occupied Palestine- from the river to the sea. Israelis have to go back from where they came from.

Is it true this nigga died in a very fishy (maybe US involvement) mortar attack?
You probably already talked about it but I didn't followed the last thread

well it was obvious they will not race it the day tiger turned north from dez toward madan.

i believe russian strategists plan for long term stability so they will deescalate and reach an agreement with kurds to support unified syria

terrorist
>a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
terms he probably is looking for is.
>Mass killing, mass murder
Breivik deserve to be called terrorist.

I think the SAA is really spread too thin at the moment mate. I mean theyre the only side actively fighting three factions (even the SDF isnt fighting ISIS).
This is why they need to secure that deal with Turkey and their Idlib terrorists and focus on the SDF next. The FSA is gone and SDF should be the next focus, especially with Birzani presenting his shit idea at this time.

>At least 17 reportedly killed in the attack on the security building in Damascus in Syria.

>Moon of the Akkad

The fuck

even Netherlands is more than twice as big as Pissrael

...

When you order a belly rub in Syria.
Comment in polish forum under this pic:
>Somewhat tired of these raids in Syria

>Anonymous is killed
finally that hacker is dead

Yes, Russian intelligence says US gave coordinates to IS mortar team

>the nzivnet article was not intended as a response to you. it's news for the thread

You misunderstood again. I meant in general, you provide posts with articles and portions of those articles. You really don't do much to respond other than referring to the articles you post.

>I already responded to your post. you made baseless claims. you received simple responses in kind.
You didn't respond to the fact that I called your comparison of Syrian and Ukrainian rebels to the Taliban a strawman of sorts. You clearly had no argument.

>you oppose the American government; you're anti-Israel and pro-Russian. your arguments are consistent with your bias, no surprise. why pretend otherwise?

I'm not pretending otherwise, you failed to show how my statement that you can't compare different regions and groups in the world to each other was incorrect. I used no personal bias in this claim, it's geopolitics 101.


>how new are you? you're just wrong

M8, this is true. I've lurked in multiple threads of yours when you link them here, I've debated you here on /sg/ multiple times, this is how you argue, but again Nzivnet didn't write one for you for that argument.

tl:dr, change the name of your threads to "Punished Path Of Light Poster, A Man Deprived Of His Arguments"

too much vodka yet again

>Greentext the story to this pic

Meanwhile in Ukraine

...

mortar fire is usual cover for sniper work

why do you think they're hell bent on garbing more land?

>Russian
>intelligence
smdh

>su-27flanker.com/2015/06/11/su-34-fullback-overrun-runaway-at-voronezh-airbase/#
>youtube.com/watch?v=uC1yefDvxQg

w-what did this?

Must have several tons of high explosive (?)

If the pilot lived that dude is never gonna get in a cockpit ever again

This is blue not green

>I meant in general, you provide posts with articles and portions of those articles.

I post all kinds of articles, not just nzivnet

>You really don't do much to respond other than referring to the articles you post.

when I post news the point is news, not arguing. most of it is not controversial anyway

criticisms like >nzivnet are ignored, since they are not substantive

when there are substantive arguments I meet them and I always have. you are making shit up or you just haven't been here often enough to know better. either way you are wrong

>You didn't respond to the fact that I called your comparison of Syrian and Ukrainian rebels to the Taliban a strawman of sorts.

"muh strawman" is not an argument. had you provided substantive rationale for your case, then I would have responded substantively.

fact is you have indigenous rebels in all 3 nations supported by Russia/USA fighting against a government supported by the other USA/Russia side

not a strawman, you just don't like the comparison because it ruins your claim that Americans support terrorists while Russia is doing something else entirely different

>I'm not pretending otherwise

neat, so I was right when I said your political bias colors your "reasoning".

>I've lurked in multiple threads of yours when you link them here, I've debated you here on /sg/ multiple times, this is how you argue

I cite my claims? is that a problem? I also argue with reason too. it's not just articles unless I'm just posting news (and there are no arguments)

>tl:dr, change the name of your threads to "Punished Path Of Light Poster, A Man Deprived Of His Arguments"

nah

unian.info/multimedia/photo/121071-posledstviya-vzryivov-v-kalinovke.html

looks like it was't pilot fault

I've been here for too long and want to focus more on myself. Since I've been going out more, I've been spending less time on the computer; It's been a relief and I've noticed I've become less introverted. My work also wants me to do more and that is taking up more time than I had previously anticipated. I'd like to restart college and see if I can go into the medical field, I'm still deciding on on whether to go through with it or stick with getting a stem degree. The politics world, including /sg/, is not the best for me mentally. I barely browse Sup Forums, it's not remotely enjoyable to me and I don't enjoy arguing with people; I barely go on Sup Forums and do not browse the other boards. Mind you, /sg/ is an enjoyable community given how small it is, but it's not the same as having friends on the outside. Even now I barely contribute, I don't post articles like I used to, and I haven't made a new batch of bread since I was stateside. Like I said, I'm still considering it, but I don't really have a reason for not shutting off Sup Forums altogether.

turkey and iran getting closer is the most interesting developement. I wonder how far they'll go

Another response to Nzivnet poster.

>he demonstrated anti-israel posts separately. and I'm sure if he was honest he would admit as much.
Why would I hide it? I'm no fan of Israel at all.

>other posts were pro-Russian. I also assume he is pro-Assad.
I am, this does not change anything I said.

>altogether
Stopped reading right there

>BLYAT NAHUI BLYAT
why did i expect something else.

It wasn't too bad. She will fly again.

>On 4 June 2015, at the airbase near Voronezh on approach turning, multi role jet Su-34 Fullback with number red 28, overrun runaway / crashed. After the routine training flight, drag chute did not deploy, so Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback finished on his back. Neither of the plane’s crew-members were seriously hurt.

>I wonder how far they'll go
depends on how far r kurds wiling to go

Cool story bro
What's next? Getting a girlfriend?

fuggg

CYKA!!

kek

ASSAD WILL WIN

>We believe that in 3 hours time (projected by arrow ahead of tankers) MARIKA might transfer up to 500K barrels of KRG oil to SEASONG. #OOTT

Crashing this plane.

what the fuck to you think this is? A self improvement group? You go here because it's interesting to follow the war and the impact it has on our geopolitical landscape and commenting on it without having to bite your tongue. Not because the people here are nice.

they usually get a second chance unless it was gross negligence. Or they died. Not because command is nice, but because the training of the pilot is usually a lot more expensive than the airframe he flies.

>Consider leaving
You don't even need to consider anything lad. Go on with your life and do what you think suits you better.. life will take back to /sg/ for a checkup every once in a while...no reason to cut the umbilical cord that ties up all of us together! We might evolve into a secret society, we might get mossad, we might move on to future projects, we might die.... Go ahead, be free, don't forget us! youtube.com/watch?v=kgkYN3QjD5M

put france flag instead of canada.
suits it better
^^

>Units of our armed forces continue to progress in the eastern Homs countryside and regain control of the villages / North Qassimia - Rabia and Mgazil / north-east of the Jubb al-Jarrah and eliminate a number of terrorists and their weapons and destroys their weapons.
>alqasimiat alshamaliat - rabieat and mughyzil
mod.gov.sy/index.php?node=5642&nid=22541&First=0&Last=8574&CurrentPage=0&FD=&TD=&&ctr=655

>Chemical Voyager
holy shit that's a cool name

>MARIKA
kek

>we might get mossad
ahha true. I've been absentee but you better believe that when winter hits and I'm done coaching soccer... A S S A D W A V E GREATEST HITS ALBUMS 1-14 LET'S GO

TF /sg/ I watch south front and IS made gainz?

IS has been making strategic retreats and pushing back harder.. don't think SAA will reach Bukmal until 2018.. has the next phase of operation big Dawn started already or still in planning?

Opel long time no see my dude where have you been?

>al-Qasimiat al Shamaliat
Couldn't find this.
Pretty safe to assume the eastern blob is empty/SAA.

eh
what the fuck is that
FOAB?

Also, the army advanced like i thought they would, let this be a lesson to you naysayers.

thx bro

Ukraine, ammunition depot, exploded

some good HTS go-pro footage againts SAA, havent seen something like this in a long time.

youtube.com/watch?v=G0uxG0qdIZM

...

so Spetsnaz, not FOAB. ok

Ypg pretty much have all oil fields in syria, assad crushed fsa but if he cant take oil fields back it’s still lost in the end

...

They're spets alright.

Oh, comon, think of some better baits
you are shit at this

I came here bc people were nice. AND the geopolitics

I think Greece user felt a sense of community here just like I have. I'm busy af with life. But I still check up on /sg/ every once in awhile.

>US Warplane Drop Banned White Phosphorus Bomb on Syria - 27th Sep

The U.S.-led coalition has dropped a white phosphorus bomb over Deir Ezzo, Syria — killing three civilians and injuring five — according to state news agency, SANA.

The bombing came a day after the U.S. military dropped another bomb over a village near the city of Hasakah that killed at least nine civilians, according to Press T.V.

telesurtv.net/english/news/US-Warplane-Drop-Banned-White-Phosphorus-Bomb-on-Syria-20170927-0017.html

Rare stuff thanks for sharing
Kek

Hey snus
What would be more proper swedish
>Jag vill ha knulla dig
Or
>Jag vill knulla dig

this is good
ahahahahahaha

How is this bait?

Syria’s economy was oil depended before war now they also lost it plus war destroyed pretty much anything else.

Second, but it's "knulla med dig".
Kinda feels like you're not German at all...

coaching soccer m8. its mentally demanding to make sure I get all 3 environments right. humans are wild lol
Plus Syria just keeps on cruising to victory. Can't stop winning.
Meanwhile, the memetics from demons keeps getting progressively worse and worse. By time winter hits, it'll be shooting fish in a barrel to analyze.
>Pic related is future

So what type of missile houthis used to shot down the Reaper?

youtube.com/watch?time_continue=79&v=P325Mr05LYw

>ISIS isn't backing off. New statement says #LasVegas shooting done by Abu al-Bar al-Ameriki after "accurate monitoring of crusaders".
lol, the high score made them wet their pants

So
>Jag vill knulla mid dig

No worry's im German as you can get.
Just having a fetish for swedish girls

>Iran Recruiting Afghan Child Soldiers to Defend Assad in Syria
The group, Human Rights Watch, said it had verified the deaths of eight Afghan children in Iran, who were recruited and ultimately died fighting for the Fatemiyoun division in Syria, by inspecting tombstones in cemeteries in Iran, cross-referencing them against the names of fighters reported dead in Iranian news reports, and by speaking to the families of several of the teenagers.

The Human Rights Watch report demonstrates that Afghan fighters younger than 18 have died in Syria, and it sheds new light on the recruitment of Afghan Shiites to fight in Syria, where Iran backs the Syrian government in a multisided war. Iran is home to many Afghans, who have traveled there to work or as refugees fleeing conflict in their country. Human rights groups have long expressed concern that vulnerable Afghan refugees are being pressured by the Iranian authorities to fight in Syria.

More graves for teenage fighters are believed to exist, Human Rights Watch says, citing reports of fighters’ deaths in the Iranian news media. According to the group’s report, some of the children’s epitaphs identify their place of death as Syria, while some tombstones bear the inscription “defender of the shrine” — a reference to Sayyida Zainab, an important shrine in Syria revered by the Shiite sect of Islam, to which many Afghans and Iranians belong.

>The process of attaining legal status is lengthy and difficult for immigrants, and without it, life is challenging for Afghans in Iran. Human Rights Watch contends that many Afghan refugees in Iran who were said to have volunteered to fight in Syria were motivated by promises of legal residency status and residency permits for their families.

>“It does not appear to be a deliberate policy to recruit children,” Ms. Sepehri Far said. “It’s more of a sloppiness that the authorities and recruiters don’t care enough to ask for proof of age.”

archive.is/laiGt

war is not over yet m8.
You make it look like it's already over.

>We swear it was us!
Meanwhile FBI says no connection

Aaaaand i'm back

When they keep losing ground in middle east everyday, they grab onto anything