Let us talk about the recent flood and oversaturation of Isekai themed manga and anime with built in character stats...

Let us talk about the recent flood and oversaturation of Isekai themed manga and anime with built in character stats and skills you usually see only in videogames.

What's your opinion on them?

Other urls found in this thread:

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-06-30/short-story-contest-bans-traveling-to-an-alternate-world-fantasy/.103755
novelupdates.com/series/i-got-reincarnated-and-mistaken-as-a-genius/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

They're shit, all of them.
>Inb4 "You should try ____________ it's actually pretty good"
Nope, it's also shit, and if you njoy reading that then you're either underage or retarded

You should try Nice subtle request, faggot it's actually pretty good.

Isekai is a deconstruction of all anime - they're just self insert wank fest for virgins who can't succeed in real life.

Kumo desu ga is pretty good.

How about we talk about oversaturation of school manga and anime?

Do not spoonfeed retards.

>deconstruction

Is this the new maymay word?!

It's gonna serve my agenda of continued scanlations if more people read it. I'm gonna be hurt the most when not enough people know about it and scanlations stop eventually.

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-06-30/short-story-contest-bans-traveling-to-an-alternate-world-fantasy/.103755

>One currently running Japanese short story contest, a collaboration between Bungaku Free Market and Shousetsuka ni Narou (...) has announced that it will not be accepting any submissions with plots about "traveling to alternate worlds" or "being reincarnated into other worlds."

>According to the contest website, any genre is allowed, including fantasy, horror, and drama, but only alternate worlds are banned.

Has such a thing ever happened before?

Like, no stories about High Schoolers and their Harems.

95% is shit, due to shit writing style, retarded superficial character interacion or plot progression, dumb copy-paste character inserts and overuse of tropes. Still there are a few rare series that are a good read despite all of that.

What do people think about Sevens?
Technically not an isekai story.

Have yet to start it, the whole little sister stealing MC's powers spoilers i have heard makes me rage.

I'm not even going to look at shit like because I know that if it's isekai, it's shit and below the fanfiction you can find on tumblr or whatever.

Well some do have good points. Should really have a list of Isekai worth checking out.
- Overlord
- Kono suba
- Kumo
- Slime
Thats all I can think off.

Its literally about a girl reborn as a spider. Its basically Itsy Bitsy as a manga.

>LN
Into the trash

> Overlord
Nope, it's bad, FOTM shit that caught on because MC was a skeleton. Newfags on Sup Forums latched into it and it's a typical wish fulfillement fantasy, your tastes are crap.

>Kono suba
Don't know, but it's shit
>Kumo
Don't know, but it's shit
>Slime
Don't know, but again, it's probably shit

Thanks for proving my point.

wew, if it was allowed I bet the isekai story would win 100%.

remember when isekais where fun?

We need one with a female protagonist. No, the slime one doesn't count.
If Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear got a manga or anime I'd be indescribably happy.

Zero no Tsukaima did it before it was cool and now it gets lumped in with the tripe it's become.

Frankly, I blame Sword Art. It was the poison pill that got dropped into the Visit Other Worlds well and turned the Wish Fulfillment part of the genre up to the point of absurdity.

Yeah, isekais back then weren't MC who were losers going to a different world as a 2nd chance.

They are amazing wish we got more.

Too bad the writer hardly thinks ahead when making the story. Lots of wasted potential with this one.

They were also often full of likable and focused on fun rather than really dark neurosis and revenge fantasy.

The current era is our fault for always asking for protagonists who don't dick around and just fuck the girls and indulge in their harems instead of endlessly teasing up. WE DID THIS!

Isekai with Paladin going around righting wrongs when.
But there's atleast two with female protagonist, Kumo desu ga and the other with OL being reborn as a nobleman's daugther in an otome game or something.

Isekai stories have made me start to hate Chessmaster type characters, and that bums me out.

What I like about older Isekai like Elves, Escaflowne etc is that there's actually a sense of adventure and exploration to it. Modern isekai focus too much on giving MC super special powers and tend to neglect the wonder of ending up in a different realm.

B-but it isnt wishfulfilment. I just want to see someone acting badass without morals holding him down and see where it takes him. Like hell I would want that to be my life.

Lolis are being collected, all is right with the world.
>OL being reborn as a nobleman's daugther in an otome game or something.
Link?

>he doesn't know konosuba
>even though it's been on the frontpage every day for the past 3 months.
nice bait

Beside Konosuba, most Isekais are shit though as you you said.

Wut? Goddamn Celes, what a cunt. And thanks for spoiling this. Cunt.

>乙女ゲームの破滅フラグしかない悪役令嬢に転生してしまった…
I think this is the one.

Even Inuyasha did this better than most modern stuff. As I said in a previous post, I lay the blame at Sword Art's feet. It poisoned so much of the current industry.

>Bakarina
Oh god pls no

The problem with Isekai is nothing would change in the story if you removed the part where MC dies or gets transported to another world.

is anyone translating it?

This is true.

>built in character stats and skills you usually see only in videogames.

The reason why Nips do this is because it cuts down on world building and makes things easier to write. They also throw in some other tropes. This is why you always got a Demon King for some fucking reason in Isekai's.

Did Fate start the RPG stats trend? If so its sad because the people aping it totally missed the point of it in Fate. Or does it predate that?

What are you saying?? All the troubles the other world has would continue if it wasnt for MC-kun! Why is every Isekai world filled with people with an IQ of a 10 year old, according to Japan.

It's shit but who cares

It a short story that is already completely translated for some time now. It is about a tomboy girl which causes a lot of giggles while reading it.

I suppose, according Mangaupdates last update was 139 days ago but who knows how accurate that is.

>new

>Did Fate start the RPG stats trend?
No, RPG stats have been around for a long time.

This is what I got to say about Isekai that uses RPG Stats. It only should be legitimately used under two conditions:

1) The story is based off of DnD/Any other equivalent in which a Stat/RPG System is used and is important to Characters and Story/It is fully detailed and not half-assed about.
2) The story is set in an actual game setting like VRMMO/MMO/and those type of worlds coming true etc.

You have no reason to use RPG Stats and what not in actual Fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting.

I recently had a discussion about this genre with someone irl who claims to read many translated Chinese novels and doesn't mind the genre because something about how only the first few chapters are usually the same in the stories.

I don't partake upon the isekai genre myself but this sounds like bullshit.

nope

Yes it is basically just a gimmick to be able to associate yourself better with the MC, a well as explain the stupid ideologies of MC we have in our world regarding slavery, racism, sexism etc.

He wasn't reincarnated though, he was just summoned. And the world doesn't revolve around RPG mechanics or game logic

ZnT is just normal fantasy LN which there is alot of.

Nearly all Isekai's go the same route in how the MC arrives in the other world.

>I don't know shit
>but I'm right because I said so
>thanks for proving me right

You're welcome user.

ZnT is pretty wish fullfillment desu.

It's Isekai, harem and school setting, all at the same time.

oh shit my bad, dragon pink isn't an isekai

I meant as a serious storytelling device. Obviously a ton of older shows used RPG tropes as a gag or a reference, but I don't remember a serious fantasy story using them to describe character stats and abilities until Fate.

Yeah, but ZnT is, you know, good and fun instead of profoundly disturbing.

That it is.

How disturbing?

This. isekai stories back then really felt like adventures, most isekai stories today just focus on the daily life of the mc impressing everyone he meets with the special power that was granted to him.

I guess part of it was because characters back then actually want to go back home, so they do stuff like searching for clues and completing the "story quests". With stuff today, the original world elements (like modern knowledge) are only there so that MC can be super special right from the start.

>Don't know, but it's shit
>Don't know, but it's shit
>Don't know, but again, it's probably shit
>probably
Spot the crossboarder

>He actually defends isekai garbage

That's pretty pathetic senpai. I've read one and I cans afely say that I wouldn't want any of that shit on my shelves if it was given away for free.

>with built in character stats and skills you usually see only in videogames
I wouldn't mind these if it were set in a Sci-Fi isekai world, but every isekai setting is the same medieval european shit with sword and magic. Like seriously it so samey, that I wouldn't be surprised if all authors said that every series is actually set in the same world.

I really should properly check my post before posting.

The problem with isekai in a futuristic world is that the MC wouldn't have any useful future knowledge or insight to contribute and it would be no different than him being just a regular person of that world.

It's sad an entire genre of fiction managed to grow out of roughly what amounts to /tg/ "Elf slave wat do," threads.

I just don't know how people can stand to read stories where the heroes face no adversity. I get the desire of a harem of willing women, really, I can let that slide, but the way the MC's in these plots just effortlessly dominate everything that stands in their way just feels so damn empty.

And don't get me started on the glorification of amorality. The average High School Harem Rom-Com protagonist has more redeeming qualities than Isekai "heroes," and the number one complaint about that genre for a decade plus has been "there is no reason for all these girls to be attracted to them." I mean, at least most Harem MC's have "Is Nice," going for them.

Basically: Beat me to it.

Sci-Fi Isekai be interesting considering the Mc would be useless in using that technology; depending on how advance it is in the future.

There is a novel where MC is reincarnated 100 years in future and because misunderstandings gets considered the smartest genius of the world who managed to advance the technology level of the world 50 years.
Shitty plot but fun to read.

...

This is the crux of why the Isekai genre has fallen into the gutter. Its become entirely dependent on this concept of "The MC has knowledge from the future and this allows him to automatically win everything."

Back in the day future knowledge just gave the Main Character a different perspective from the locals, a different way of thinking, a more modern and familiar sensibility or sense of morality. It was rarely if EVER a "Power."

Not to mention that modern Isekai heroes have NO morality generally because these days the genre is about revenge fantasy rather than escapism.

novelupdates.com/series/i-got-reincarnated-and-mistaken-as-a-genius/

There's already many of them in shoujo manga. Isekai and reincarnation stories have been a thing in them since the 80s~90s.

That's a good thing. The only use to reincarnation/summoning/what fucking ever as a plot device is as an excuse to explain the setting to the readers like making the MC an amnesiac.

>I've read one
>it's shit
>that means all are shit
Wew

You might as well say all anime is shit then. Oh wait, I almost forgot where I am.

Yeah but those are all fujoshit. I want a modern isekai, complete with retarded harem antics, just swapping the gender of the MC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that MC having future knowledge for automatic win is a good thing, it's just such a common aspect of isekai stories now that I don't think any writer is going to deviate from it.
>Back in the day future knowledge just gave the Main Character a different perspective from the locals, a different way of thinking, a more modern and familiar sensibility or sense of morality.
This would be cool. I'd love to see this in a sci-fi setting too, the MC having to deal with all the changes in value and technologies.

Thanks man.

Fuushigi Yuugi was the shit. What a neat manga.

>Mc is an amnesiac
I miss that plot excuse. Sometimes it was cool, sometimes it wasn't.

Have pic related mate.

The Mc was a guy but got reincarnated as a girl. Who is fighting in not WWI for Not German Empire in Not Europe.

Look, its stories on a amateur writing site.
Most of them are copying each other and most of them aren't very well thought out and just pure wish-fulfillment.
Don't complain without naming a title or two, because anyone can tell you what the problems are with a specific title, no one can discuss a just 'in-general' genre because that inevitably points to a the most annoying terrible isekai story you read maybe two chapters of and dropped.
The writers know its old hat. Thats why stuff that gets serious translations that is isekai are like Katahane no Riku and Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu.
They still have OP as fuck MCs, its just they do well giving the story conflict and making it interesting. Thats the real curse of isekai, that it ends up like hentai doujin where its fun for about ten minutes or so then its forgettable.

Genderbent reincarnations always seem a bit odd to me. Tilea's Worries was the one I understood the least. The guy is still a creepy otaku on the inside and the only difference is that he gets away with molesting his sister and an elf because he's a girl now.

These sort of stories are very old, Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" was basically about an industrialist remaking Arthurian England. It was so popular that it inspired a whole slew of similar novels about a modern man traveling to another time/place and using their superior knowledge to dominate. To be fair there was a chapter when the MC futilely tried to explain to a smugly ignorant peasant about cost of living and quality of life.

There were lots of books in the 80's about modern protagonists dropped into fantasy worlds, Rick Cook's Wizardry series (Long-hair programmer creates a code based magic system), L.E. Modesitt Jr's Soprano Sorceress series (University music professor uses the local music based magic to enforce her will as she builds roads, infrastructure, and introduces gender equality and double entry accounting), and Eric Flint's Ring of Fire series (small town USA gets dropped into sword and pike era Europe and they use modern firearms, tools, and knowledge base to establish themselves as a superpower.) Harry Turtledove does alot of alternate fiction like "Guns of the South" where time travelers go to the Civil War and give Robert E. Lee and his troops AK-47s.

Hey don't miss the point here, none of those is anime or has anime girls in it.

>Sup Forums proves it doesn't know shit about writing genres and thinks LN cliches are a recent thing

Technically none of the web novels had anime girls in them either. My point isn't, "Hey go read these books". My point is even if it comes from a different literary context people have independently come up with this same genre before.

tl;dr Every repost is a repost of a repost.

>Talking out your ass without understanding what people are talking about ITT

Skills and stats and RPG elements in general are useful from a writer's perspective, as they allow a quick and easy classification of characters, their strengths, weaknesses, affinities and help avoid the "as strong as the plot needs them to be" pitfall and give characters roles, which allow the writer to avoid saturating his work by a specific kind of characters at the expense of the rest. It also makes it easier to build in advance reasons for the villains to lose, since their weaknesses are done from the beginning and you only need to introduce the chevkov gun a couple dozen of chapters ahead.

It also gives an easy progression for the MC, he has skills, these skills have ratings, the logical step is to max them. It's a lot easier than actually designing the evolution of a character, and the message behind your work, and way less risky. Skills allow a simple hedonistic character to work, as his progression will be represented by his skills rising, even though his behaviour doesn't change.

Basically, these stories are quick and easy, which is why they are tempting to many aspiring authors. While it does mean that many, many works are going to suck balls, it doesn't stop some works from shining. Though these tend to be older and not part of the new wave.

So it's time to submit a fantasy highschool harem battle LN?

Oh I fucking hate game mechanics in a fantasy story. Just that one, and I'd tolerate this isekaishit.

You can't compare Connecticut Yankee to modern Isekai fiction. Twain wrote a story that attacked a very prominent and popular image of the world because he recognized the danger that kind of white-washing history and romanticism presented when too deeply revered by society. The current era of Isekai fiction doesn't challenge these worlds, it revels in them, indulges in them to sate the most base of desires for treasure and women and fame and a need to get violent revenge against the perceived injustices and demons they suffered in their modern lives.

The type of fiction you're citing, alternate histories and time travel tales in which the modern clashes with the past, that's not what Isekai has become. Those stories focused on one of two things: The struggles of the lost character to find their place in the new world without the safety nets of the world they knew, or the ripples through the ancient world that the modern invasion causes. Isekai fiction isn't about world building or character struggle and growth, they're about a blank slate carving their way to the things they want and getting them without any real challenge.

I mean hell, look at something that's pretty trashy and pulpy like Gate: Thus the JSDF Went There. It fits into the genre you're talking about, and 75% of the roflstomp slaughter-the-dumb-barbarians-effortlessly shit happens off-screen or in single battle scenes. In the average Isekai story those battles of mechanized infantry vs phalanx swordsmen IS THE ENTIRE PLOT, not counting the gratuitous asides for graphic sex orgies with the harem the MC has collected/purchased

>Escaflowne
I think that and elves are a good cross-section of the previous generation of Isekai. No emphasis on class based video game systems, character interactions and compelling motivations, and for Escaflowne a strong sense of drama and thematic imagery. Elves I have less experience with but it was fun ecchi with interesting locations and characters. Kind of reminds me of Trigun at times.

Current generation is very much derived from .Hack and SAO. So we get fantastical settings but they are all based on video game logic which, given how it's used, makes characters far more 2-dimensional. You also have the the idea that the MC has to be some broken mess of a character with a "cheat" ability given to them to even out their initial positions. It's so common that some stories even acknowledge the cheat ability in the title.

And for the series that aren't blatantly in a video game I can't help but feel like they would be better if they just skipped the reincarnation bit and just told the story from the characters fantasy land perspective. The series Shiro no Koukoku Monogatari is an example of this. If you just changed the initial setup from "guy is reincarnated to be a king" to "guy who lived out in the boonies discovers his birthright" nothing changes in the story.

It's a crutch right now for authors.

I like your posts user.

>Thats why stuff that gets serious translations that is isekai are like Katahane no Riku
>Katahane no Riku
>serious translations

I feel like Grimgar is at least somewhat different, but that might be my blatant bias speaking, honestly.

Honestly, the easiest way around this would be a universe where nobody is inherently magical or supernaturally powerful, but they can use alchemy or some such to make magic items.

It makes the story more about normal people with cool gadgets and gimmicks rather than powerlevel lazerbeam wankery.

Magic Knights Rayearth and Fushigi Yuugi are also good examples from that era of the genre really being explored properly and producing great stories.

Spirited Away is also a fantastic example of course.

>recent
Fucking newfags

So like this one?

We are never getting those type of adventures back user. You need to move on or write them yourself.

It's kind of sad really most good Isekai's are buried under the bad one's and are pretty hard to find.

Not the same user, but thanks.

>Mc is an amnesiac
Huh like Ochitekita.

The irony is that Mushoku Tensei which helped to create this trend definitely had a strong sense of exploration at least in the first half.