Oh for God’s sake, Spain. Let those poor bastards go their own way. It is beyond pathetic that you try to keep them

Oh for God’s sake, Spain. Let those poor bastards go their own way. It is beyond pathetic that you try to keep them.

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Why is the question so hard to understand? They turned a political problem into a legal one by jumping over the law.

If they want to secede they can do it legally by working for a parlamentary majority. They have a real chance to achieve that in the next elections.

I don't like a lot of things about the laws we have and I don't go around doing what I want. And if I did I wouldn't be surprised if the police arrested me. Why are them so special? They are the same as everyone here.

So what's the deal? The gate is open and we can all do whatever we want now? I would tell them to go back into the legal frame and stop this madness once and for all.

Nobody can just let them secede, because the law is above everybody. We need to change the law first. Why is it so hard to understad, for fucks sake.

Oh they can go. Freely. As. A matter of fact, I would be overjoyed if they left. Land's ours though.

oh come on Germany. Let Bavaria secede. or how about we give the Saarland to the French?

spain would lose a lot of money from taxes and tourism

por que no te vas a andalucia y te ahorcas?

Stay mad Spainfags. Slowly your territory is diminishing.

Brussels having a great time atm

How are they supposed to get a parliamentary majority in Madrid? Since when do small countries have to get the approval of the large oppressive state to secede? I don’t remember that all 27 states of the EU had a vote on whether the UK can leave.

>Let Bavaria secede.

you don’t understand, Bavaria has the right to a referendum any time they want.

Also funny that you mentioned the Saarland... they had a referendum and decided to voluntary join Germany and not France.

You are much more likely to have andalusian blood in your veins than him.

>Let Bavaria secede

There's nothing preventing them, the German constitution allows the states to secede, unlike the Spanish one.

Its alright spain i understand your troubles since we have that little shit known as scotland constantly complaining

Catalonia isn't a country and it never will be

Fuck off and die you retarded communist

And they can't afford to lose more since the bailout hangs on the fact that catalonia income goes to repaying the debts Spain owned to her lenders.

Let's said Catalonia successfully secede. This would mean Spain have to negotiate a new bailout since they can't depend on the region to cough up money anymore.
And if no new bailout is signed before payment is due, then there would be riots since a lot of people would be without their salary and without salary, some likely to refuse to work.

Not a situation you want to be in if your utility workers go on strikes and shut down water and electrical supply.

>How are they supposed to get a parliamentary majority in Madrid?

Because many national parties are in favor of changing the constitution. Duh.

That excuse is not only false but also stupid.

>I don't like the law so I will do whatever I want

KEK REKT

Britfags should give Gibraltar back to España.

Also, no Catalan independence ever pls

Again, why should a small seceding state get the approval of the large oppressive state? Did the English vote on Scottish secession?

You would have a point if the Catalans had a vote on the 1970s Spanish constituton and by majority approved it back then. but that is not thr case.

Says a guy from a country that was part of another.

It's different. They act inside legality. They can do the same here. And yes, that includes a legal referendum.

Why does a (((German))) want to see Catalonia turning into a Far-Left country?

because the germans are brainwashed as fuck

>Again, why should a small seceding state get the approval of the large oppressive state?

Because we have a legal frame.

>You would have a point if the Catalans had a vote on the 1970s Spanish constituton and by majority approved it back then. but that is not thr case.

lol....territorial unity exists since the Catholic Monarchs and it was included on every consitution since them.

Catalonians had a part in those constitutions, defended them and even shed their blood for them.

Catalonia will move to the right once they are free from Spain. I have no doubt about it.

>Catalonia will move to the right once they are free from Spain. I have no doubt about it.
this supposition based on what?

Because all spanish people should vote on an spanish issue, cataluña is being unreasonable, for years spain invested in them with madrids money and now that they can help out other regions they want out, fuck those catajews, not to mention the million of catalonians that feel 100% spanish

>Because we have a legal frame.
Describe it.

>territorial unity exists since the Catholic Monarchs
Who cares. Seriously. "We've been bros forever guys..." isn't an argument.

>Because we have a legal frame

How is that an argument?

Lisa: Hans, I want to leave you because you beat me and use all my money for gambling and whoring.

Hans: Lisa, you can’t leave, we are married and the law says you can’t leave, Now, lie down so I can beat you with my belt again.

How is that fair again even when the law allowed it back in the days?

>all spanish people should vote on an spanish issue
It's not a spanish issue. If they leave it's doesn't effect the rest of Spain.

"But I bought you those chocolates before... why are you leaving me" Shut up.

I hate your mom and dad too. Besides America what else do your parents like?

Cataluña has been in almost every gobernment of the democracy.
They did chose the money and the privileges over the independence.
They voted the constitution and agreed with the 90% of the votes.
Now shut the fuck up and read.

They can't secede without the leftists and those won't ley anyone take the power. Don't be stupid.

>for years spain invested in them
Also, you realize that investment means risk. There was a risk that there would be little to no return. Welcome to real investing.

>They voted the constitution and agreed with the 90% of the votes.
If can can vote in, they can vote out. If you don't believe that on principle then you are irrational.

"""Last""" Airbender, what bullshit

No, it doesn't because the fucking country has been backing up the risk.

Al the country voted in, al the country must vote out. That's the law they agree with.

CATALONIA is literally commies.. fucking idiot

>No, it doesn't because the fucking country has been backing up the risk.
Why does that matter again?

>Al the country voted in, al the country must vote out. That's the law they agree with.
So you're for contract slave labor? Also, they had to vote to come in, the rest had to vote to approve. Them coming in... because it's a positive action.

Spain is then entitled to defends its investment by the means they deem necessary, though i think they should give the catalans a bit more money and have the based basques foot the bill, no region of spain should play blind right now when the unity of the country is at risk

>CATALONIA is literally commies.. fucking idiot
Probably. But another example of how bad (democratic)communism/socialism fails will be great.

>means they deem necessary
What world do you live in? "I invested in your company I want my money back *cocks gun*"

Shut up. Risk is just that. This mythical "investment" bullshit for governments is just that. It isn't investment...

They are as spanish as an andalucian, mayorcan, galician or someone from madrid

>They are as spanish as an andalucian, mayorcan, galician or someone from madrid
The US was just as british as the rest of the country. I guess we were horrible people for saying fuck off, right?

The white man is known for its mongolian tier violence.

Here are some examples of white violence:
The native american genocide
The native australian genocide
The nuking of japan
World War I
World War II
Hitler and his attrocities
The genocide of the palestinians
The genocide of the Syrians
The crusades
The spanish inquisista

The white man is cancer upon the planet and deserves nothing but genocide itself.

White men killed more people in the last 100 years than the entire history of the superior asian people.

Also cute, would rek if shes 9

Podéis hacer vuestro país, pero el territorio es español, al mar con los secionistas.

Arriba España.

You don't seem to understand the concept. We have a law, and we have to respect it. If we do not like something, that same laws have mechanisms to change it.

That legal framework is what prevents police from acting according to their own interest, or what prevents me from doing what I want. If I want to build a third flat in my house, I need to follow a legal procedure. I can't just do it.

In other words, we give in a part of our freedom and in exchange we receive the protection of the law. Nobody can come and beat me up, because I am under a legal frame.

That's what allows us to live in a democracy.

Perhaps they are not interested on that. They don't care one bit, they rather be outlaws. But that's not rational, because the consequences of that should be obvious.

When everyone follows a set of rules to achieve what he wants the losers will always accept the result. When you break the rules of the game, you break the frame, nobody is forced to accept the result. There are no rules anymore.

What are you doing with your argument is substituting the spanish legal frame, formed and defended by millions during centuries, with your own frame built upon your moral system. How is that reasonable?

I insist: Go back to the legal frame and achieve what you want from there. It's perfectly possible. And stop this madness.

I'm out. Bottom line. Using tax dollars to build up an area doesn't make it an eternal tax slave. Voting to be part of something means you can vote to not be part of something. Geographic or historical relationships does not dictate the validity of wanting to go separate ways.

The question should be, is all the infrastructure that spain paid for catalonian or spanish? Not even considering that half of catalonia or more doesn't want to secede and they are being held hostage by the independists

>You don't seem to understand the concept. We have a law, and we have to respect it. If we do not like something, that same laws have mechanisms to change it.
Literally choosing to no longer be governed by an area and self govern is just that.

Literally that negates your high school description of being a citizen of a country.

>we are doing this for the greater wellbeing of humanity
>trust me Im a communist

Fuck them all to death !!!

Not the same, you weren't equal to great britain or british people in rights, they are equal

>The question should be, is all the infrastructure that spain paid for catalonian or spanish?
That' seasy. Catalonian... There's no way to say that a person on the opposite side of the country can lay claim to it... just like Catalonian's can't take something from that same person.

Welcome to investment.

This. Plus catalans are white, they should be shackled to those shitskins anymore.

Spain was never annexed into spain, the crown of aragon united with castille and leon and through that union they gave birth to spain, they are not a subjugated region

>Because we have a legal frame.

legal and legitimate are not the same thing. the majority can make all kinds of laws that bind some minority. it might be legally correct but neithr legitimate nor ethical.

in principle this is the same argument every oppressor has. Take Russia for example. Opposition demonstrations will never be officially allowed. thus every opposition demonstration is illegal and can be stamped out by force...you know just upholding the law.

think catalonia as a colony that border on the motherland. there are many like these and they have less likelyness to successfully sesceed, the more "foreigners" from the motherland are living there.

take the ex-soviet states like the balticum or kasachstan, they could leave, since they have fewer than 50% russians.

or take the ones that can't leave, because of force or they are outnumbered by the foreigners, like West Sahara, Tibet, Buryatia, Inner Mongolia, Russian Caucasian Republics

Catalonia might be considered in one of these categories.

>glanced at image in catalogue
>initially thought it was Wonder Woman removing a tampon
>mfw I realise this place is conditioning me

But m-muh cash cow!!

So you are confirming that they are out of the legal frame.

That's fine, but then you should understand that the police has the duty to act against those who disobey the law.

They would do the same with me. They are not special.

What about the more than half of catalonians that feel spanish? Why can't the spanish government protect them from being hostage to the independentist? Hipocrit independentists say spain robs them, opress them and holds them hostage, but they do the same in their own region

>Be me
>Rightwing fag, nationalist as fuck
>Man i want more power, my fucking niggro Francisco is dead and i want more industry now
>Idea.png
>Ok fags, we are a fucking country, we were all along, but the spaniards are fucking lying about your past
>we also have a fucking high debt because we all scatalonian government lied and steal from the fiscal founds, but thats a minor problem
>Holy shit we hate spain now!
>We don´t Jordi, that fucking scumbag is lying
>STFU Xavier you don´t know me, you don´t know Catalunya, we were a country before!

You are an idiot, but the situation with Catalonia is the sale with the black comunities.
Give us.
Here.
Give us.
Here.
Educashon.
Here.
Change history.
More gives.
Here, here.
Raicisss.

Fuck off we are tired and they can go. The investment stays.

See above.

Anyway, if you don't understand it... Well, is not the first time. You can go to hell to suck the MSM dick.

the separatists are not a majority. they are just obnoxiously loud

This.

This

>I don't like a lot of things about the laws we have and I don't go around doing what I want.

That's the main justification for breaking laws though. Don't like immigration laws? Think they're unfair? Go in illegally and then protest in the streets of a country you shouldn't be in.

Sure Fuck these retarded tea-party commies, America will always be property of the crown.

>Catalonia might be considered in one of these categories.

No, it can't. Read some history, Catallonia and the crown of Aragon are not a colony or anything of that sort.

But either way, I already told you that's not an excuse. They can become idenependent using legal means. It's perfectly possible.

>legal and legitimate are not the same thing

Imagine a policeman or a judge not acting according to the law, but according to what they think is legitimate. Do you know how dangerous is that? Mainly because we all have different opinions. The only way to live together without conflict is making those opinions merge in a set of written rules.

You are trying to go against a legal system that has evolved over the course hundreds of years, not against a dictatorship.

>kinds of laws that bind some minority

I have many minoritary opinions too, and I don't go around doing what I want. That's how the rule of the majority works. It's not perfect, but it's better that being at war constantly.

...

And when someone comes and breaks a stick in your head because he doesn't like you, he will say the same.

Spain may be faggotland, lesbo land, pro nigger and refugees, but their identity is not cucked yet, they shoud keep the fight, there is no way 2 millon separatists can drag 5 mililon hostages away from their fellow 40 million citizens

youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Qt0g6HogI

¡Arriba España!

I've been to Spain and yeah, you're right. Nice place with people proud of their heritage, but a gigantic REFUGEES WELCOME sign on their parliament. Such a shame, Barcelona is gorgeous but overrun with niggers.

wonderful. if they are not the majority, let them do the vote and fail. this is how democracy works. i don't understand what you spaniards are afraid of, i have also heard the pro independance people in catalonia are a minority.

but instead of them just letting their vote, like london let the scottish. they chose violence. now probably more people in that region want to leave. great job.

why did rajoy do this? are there elections on the horizon?

Viva España

The risk for fraud is too big, and they have been indoctrinating people for 30 years at least

democracy doesnt mean you get to vote on whatever you want. the law has to be followed, you dont get to decide what to do based on mob rule when its convinient

well, disobeying the law has managed to make the world progress: US independence (+ many other), french revolution etc

Great thing what is happening . Spaniards are nigger tier . Catalonia should be independent and separate itself from those filthy people

> why did rajoy do this?

Rajoy does not have a word on this. It's the law.

If they secede unilaterally it's not even the normal law, it's the constitution. They will effectively give the army a legal justification to act ON THEIR OWN.

Also the government can't give the vote because from what my relatives told me (mostly catalan balearic and some basques) spaniards are really uniting in not letting them vote

Should have just let them have a referendum.
These types are usually cowards who know they can't manage on their own and will eventually vote in their best interest.

Of course now the authorities have been beating them up they probably think they'd be better off with independence.

Is the nu/left/ that crawls here. At first The Angry Ones, or Indignados, were good. Then they pandered to gipsies, feminist, lgtbi shitheads, niggers, muslims, etc... they think that this will make them have more votes, the fact is that they are loosing them by millions per year.

VIVA

at least they would lead one part of the country out of financial crisis

Such dignity and gravitas.

It's the same here, my friend.

i would like to see when a dictatorship ended because it was against the law

Catalan supports the rest of Spain financially. Spain is just begging for Gibs.

They're 20% of Spain's GDP, and probably +30% of their taxes.

Spain would become 4th world if they let their 2nd world regions go.

>If they secede unilaterally it's not even the normal law, it's the constitution. They will effectively give the army a legal justification to act ON THEIR OWN.

Under international law there is a natural right to secede. Pretty much every country which has ever existed started as a secessionist movement that violated some law or constitution or otherwise used non-legal means. Very seldomly are these things handled in a legal way - really only Czechia and Slovakia come to mind. Everyone else has just been breaking laws or constitutions.

That is not Ada Colau tho, and to respond for the Kraut I'd say he's either a faggot and wants freedom for us or redpilled and wants EU to fall and Catalans and Spanish to bring back national identity against globalisation.

>I have many minoritary opinions too, and I don't go around doing what I want. That's how the rule of the majority works

only if the minority is geographically spread evenly. your minority views and mor importantly identity are probably found in any region in spain. the catalan language and culture isn't. so you cannot compare how a law is binding individuals like you or a policeman and geographical entities. it's just not the same.

if a whole region decides to leave a legal framework, because they don't want to be part of it is the normal course of any independance.

like others said here in germany any federal state can leave if they wish so. the serbs were not asked if the kosovarians may leave, the Siberians were not asked, if the Estonians could leave. why should a Galician have any say in this? The law you have is absurd.

Catalonian secessionists already begged the EU for help.
They're not gonna go their own way, they're gonna get everyone involved.

No es un argumento.

>spaniards are really uniting in not letting them vote
that's what i mean. they have on paper a legal way to do it, but in reality the rest of spain would never let them go.

Nice dub.
George Soros is funding the independence of Catalonia


In 2014, George Soros’s Foundation, Open Society Initiative for Europe, funded organizations fighting for the independence of Catalonia. This is what La Vangardia revealed last year (2016).

According to internal documents the Soros Foundation provided:
27,049 dollars to the Consell de Diplomàcia Pública de Catalunya (Catalonia’s Council for Public Diplomacy in Catalonia), an organization that Catalonia’s Generalitat [Translator’s note: this is the institutional framework for Catalonia’s independence] established with different private partners; and - 24 973 dollars to the Centre d’Informació i Documentació Internacionals a Barcelona (the Barcelona Centre for International Information and Documentation, which we will call “BCIID”).
BCIID is an independent think tank.

The BCIID is playing the role of the Premier Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs for the “Generalitat of Catalonia”. It is defending every issue from the same perspective as Hillary Clinton.

“George Soros financió a la agencia de la paradiplomacia catalana”, Quico Sallés, La Vanguardia, 16 de agosto de 2016.

revenge for the inquisition maybe?
I would move to Spain in a heartbeat if they brought back the inquisition

Kek if only one castillo soldier enters Catalonia, spain will instantly lose it and Basque country aldo, with support of international community.