Redpill me on the Catalonia situation, Sup Forums

Redpill me on the Catalonia situation, Sup Forums.

I'm inclined to follow Molyneux on this. Catalonia is a state filled with relatively rich, white liberals who're aware of their status as a cash cow for the poorer regions, and want out. That said, they're cucking for the EU to not be perceived as a rogue state.

I see no reason to support Spain in this, seeing as to how their government is cucked to shit. Despite my negative opinion of the EU and liberals, the Catalonians seem justified in their wanting to withdraw from Spain.

Other urls found in this thread:

voltairenet.org/article198106.html
elplural.com/sociedad/2017/09/25/rajoy-solo-ha-acogido-al-10-de-los-refugiados-los-que-se-comprometio
publico.es/sociedad/espana-incumple-compromiso-acogida-refugiados.html
elmundo.es/economia/2017/05/28/59280dc6e5fdeacc5c8b4661.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

bump

pls

I am one of the few to agree on everything you said. Everything else is just shilling.

I don't get how any other narrative applies here, desu.

voltairenet.org/article198106.html

The right to independence of nations applies in some contexts.
> non-self-governing colonies (examples: former European colonies in Africa and Asia)
> oppression of minorities / ethnic cleansing / genocide (examples: BiH, South Sudan)
> lack of representation in government institutions (Kosovo is usually mentioned as the only example, and it's not recognised by half of the world)
> internal dissolution of a federation by mutual agreement (examples: Czech Republic, Slovakia - although most of the Czechoslovak citizens were against dissolution)

None of these contexts apply to Catalonia. You cannot unilaterally secede from a democratic country because of "muh feels" or "muh taxes".

>filled with white liberals
your definition of white must be really messed up, they had mass inmigration of gypsies in the 80s and they fucking love refugees. if you think Spanish government is cucked you dont even know the levels of SJW in catalonya

>Abiding the monster no matter what
Fucking pathetic, the law is just a book with sentences that bear no connection to reality if the loss it induces aren't worth it.

This

Also molymeme is a fucking hack, especially on the catalonia situation, just browse his twitter TL on the video, he gets absolutely BTFO by actual spaniards with knowledge because he himself, oh the irony, provided zero facts on the issue, and put the fake bleeding woman in the fucking thumbnail

I have zero sympathy for self-destructive leftist seperatists. Their main source of income is what - corruption and tourism?? Good luck upholding tourism if your fucking system falls apart as it does in socialist countries and you import shitskins that rape and drag your tourism scene into abyss

I'm almost livid how little people know this, makes me mad

Why should cattle with agency be beholden to a malevolent farmer?

You're not addressing the fundamental issue here.

>Why should cattle with agency be beholden to a malevolent farmer?

The fuck is your point exactly? Care to actually make a legit point rather than talking like some holier than thou who lives on a hill and speaks in riddles?

Okay, so they're not as white as I thought. Still more significantly more affluent.

Presumptuous. I'd wager an independent Catalonia will do better than one under the yoke of an incompetent, quasi-socialist state, just by virtue of the fact that it's filled with a higher IQ populace.

Nobody can answer the OP.

Why shouldn't people who are currently being used as resource mules by their state start self-governing?

And no, "because I think they will fail if they're independent" is not an argument.

tell me 1 reasonable economic benefit of an independent catalonya, besides that IQ thing you pulled out of your ass and the supposed socialism of the current government (PP, wich is moderate right)

Not being taxed to shit, and having their money be redistributed to shitskins and poorfags in other parts of the country?

>currently being used as resource mules
Except they aint

And yes they will fail independent as I pointed out, quite simple to grasp even for a basic pablo

>every socialist state fails
>independence is pointless if you put african shitskins over your own people, will kill your economy (tourism) and all the social aspects of life

Here, by the way, did you know they would cuck for the EU too?

>oppression of minorities

Spanish police were literally beating up people trying to vote, sure totally not oppressive

So they would rather distribute it to actual shitskins from Africa and middle east, hahahha

arrribaaa

>except they ain't

Sauce?

We can seriously not debate anything but this. Because if I'm/Molyneux is right, and they are being taxed to shit, then they objectively have no reason to stay.

I guarantee you've never known a black person

Hmm, how else can you deal with leftist separatists if they conduct yet another illegal referendum in a row (paid by the taxpayer money) and are trying to escape corruption charges via muh independence?

Dude, Spain is already letting in tens of thousands of shitskins. You do know Spain is already in the EU, right?

So, for all intents and purposes, we can conclude that both Catalonia as an independent state and Spain are going to be going down the same path demographically, regardless of anything.

That said, why shouldn't Catalonia leave?

>not being taxes to shit
catalonyan officials get paid more than average spanish government officials (50% more in most cases)
also you must have read something about spain paying 200% more taxes than the rest of spain or something. thats a mere exxageration, if anything they might pay 4% more than what they receive or something like that.

I'm very glad and proud to say that I haven't, believe me

I already see how vibrant London, Birmingham and other parts of dying britland is ravished by the negroes


So you're all for a radical leftist state that would take the shitskin import on before unimaginable heights, be a total EU stooge (as all independence movements in Europe)

Also lose their muh economic might in process and even more so my previous fucking point - if you obviously put african shitskins over your own people, what's the case for independence?

catalonya is pro-refugees
>refugees welcome, tourists go home
also spain was "designated" 19k refugees, of wich not even a quarter came. in portugal they dont want to stay either.
and the police in Ceuta and Melilla collaborate with Morocco to stop the niggers from going to spain illegally
believe it or not, moroccans are increidbly racist towards the rest of africa, mainly south of them.

Well barcelona is pretty much on par with madrid, muh taxed to shit does go hand in hand with all the gibsmedats and other leftist things that Catalonia has?

Well I'm a leftist separatist and we lost due to a media campaign and business owners driving up fear over leaving so that method seems to work.

>illegal referendum

Very funny how Spain claims to be a democratic country where referendums are illegal, your fascism is showing

Resorting to state violence against the citizens is always a bad idea, it's not just immoral,mits fucking dumb and breaks the trust in society, you could realise that if you weren't so obsessed with bashing people that just want to vote

Idk I'd need sources m8. That's why I asked to be redpilled

Yes, because Spain is doing the exact same thing as is. If Spain was a rightist, ethnically conscious country, then I would prioritize that over the fact that they're sucking Catalonians dry.

>man fuck ur constitution and laws and shit, GO COMRADES

lmao, gg, you negroe lover, I sure as hell hope you're not white, because traitors are the worst kind

So your argument is that Spain isn't as cucked as Molyneux, and others on this board would believe?

I'm skeptical. I think refugees just don't want to come to Spain because it's poorer than, say, Germany.

>Yes, because Spain is doing the exact same thing as is.
But it isn't "the same thing", how many times do we have to tell you this?

Spain is still very much falangist in a sense , and hell, fucking far-right when compared to Catalonia. You see tens of thousands of catalonians marching for more shitskins, more Merkel, more EU, with the same mindset in their government representatives

and they are not "sucking muh catalonia dry" also catalonians are very corrupt and facing charges

Jesus, it's like talking w/ a goddamn jew, you disregard absolutely everything that is said in answers and keep on yapping your own (or molymemes) rhetoric

>muh constitution

Why should a piece of paper dictate what the younger generation are allowed to do, especially when it's something so clearly intended to keep a region under the thumb which has been oppressed for centuries by Spain?

I am white, no ones even mentioning race though? You're just throwing around racial slurs because you portray a textbook example of a racist, hating an entire race of people when you admit you've never even met a black person.

Yes and catalonians - as a radical leftist state with their heavy pro refugee state will accept them by the thousands and will ensure such gibs that they will stay there, no matter that their whole system collapses, EU will bail out for more shitskin intake

>man fuck ur laws and shit, muh feelings!

Haha, typical degenerate

But that's still speculative, and not applicable to the reality on the ground.

The fact remains that Catalonians are being exploited right now.

Nice argument my man

No matter what happens don't you believe that if the Catalans want independence they should be able to get it?

>Arguing with britbong

Stop it triggers his wifes son.

"Wanting independence" is not an argument.

meme

How is it a meme.

It's akin to "human rights". If you can't logically substantiate your political motives, I have no reason to sympathize with them.

You're literally just parroting what mplyneux is saying, it took you no mental processes to reach these conclusions on your own, that my friend, is not an argument

> especially when it's something so clearly intended to keep a region under the thumb which has been oppressed for centuries by Spain?
>muh history
>muh constitution
Pick one.
Catalonia agreed at the time the Constitution was presented. It includes the processes to follow to separate from Spain.

I'm not parroting anything. I've come here with the intention of being exposed to a valid argument that runs contrary to the one I've presented in the OP.

You're just blabbering.

This coming after franco they probably would have accepted anything, not a good look supporting them, I guess fascists got to watch each other's backs though right Brit?

I was referring to the not an argument meme, it's not an argument, you don't add anything by saying it.

All I've presented is the simple fact that if Catalonians want independence, democratically they should not be denied it. You cannot be a democrat but also deny the will of the people on an issue such as this

if you are a white nationalist catalonya is the last place you shoudl root for in spain
>SJW
>Love refugees
>idealistic policies with no economic background
if anything, maybe galicia, asturias, and other parts of the cantabric coast.
spanish people have a strong character, and the attention refugees receive in france and germany is much better
they could probably survive living here, but they also probably hear stories about how well people are treated further north and move there for that reason
at any rate, as i said the spanish government wanted as least refugees as possible

Crimea is Ukraine
Catalonia is España

I'm not a democrat? No sane person is lmao. Tyranny of the masses. Highly dysgenic.

>they wanted less refugees

Doubt. I think Spain would love to take in more, if it could provide the same degree of welfare that Germany/France can.

As much as I am a white nationalist, both Spain and Catalonia are filled with socialists and anti-whites.

Catalonia don't want to be a part of spain, however "cucked" you think spain or catalonia is irrelevant, seccessionist cases can't be beaten out of people, the only correct move here was to allow the Catalans to hold their non legally binding illegal refferendum and then not act upon it, request international help if the Autonomous government tries starting shit, and then ensuring a neat transfer from the proclaimed independent Catalonia into a new autonomous government.

Spain has done what many larger countries with multiple ethnic groups do, attempt to supress dissent, in the UK, we attempted this, the attempted supression of the IRA was a complete and total failure, and as seen with the second IRA and Scotland, giving a chance for sepratists to feel they could win is a far more effective strategy for keeping the country together.

>I think Spain would love to take in more
you're wrong
elplural.com/sociedad/2017/09/25/rajoy-solo-ha-acogido-al-10-de-los-refugiados-los-que-se-comprometio
>Rajoy (president) only got 10% of the refugees he said he admitted

>Doubt. I think Spain would love to take in more
Except they are taking in less than they said they were going to take in. Spain is just bandwagoning without compromise.

publico.es/sociedad/espana-incumple-compromiso-acogida-refugiados.html

sry for español

I guess I can buy it.

Still, does being slightly less cucked justify exploiting a higher IQ demographic for resources? Meh.

>exploiting
Not true. The Catalonian government, "la Generalitat" is exploiting its own people, specially the low-income and moderate-income sectors.

elmundo.es/economia/2017/05/28/59280dc6e5fdeacc5c8b4661.html
They get more autonomy to exploit their own people.

They act like the ungrateful son that abandons his parents in a retirement home and never sees them. Except in this case, it's with the investment that Spain puts into Catalonia.

Who set out these rules? What makes them a figure of authority on this subject? Why do they ought to be respected? It seems quite natural to me that people have a right to independence. If you do not possess the right to be independent then you are a slave, it is the same both for groups and for individuals.

If a referendum is illegal then it will have no effect. It will just be ignored. Voting consists putting a piece of paper in a box. It has never been illegal to put a piece of paper in a box. Anybody can do it. You can do it. You can perform an illegal referendum at your house right now. Just set up a big box in your living room and write "vote to gas all jews" on it and then ask people to drop pieces of paper in the box. I assure you that this does not warrant the police kicking out your front door and shooting you in the head. The issues go deeper: the catalonian referendum WAS going to have a legal effect, therefore it was following due process, and that is precisely why the powers that be wanted the police to start beating law-abiding citizen.

Spain is falangist because of Moroccan Muslims they used in the war. There were 30 000 and were, by the Franco's commanders own account, the most effective force in the war.

Don't believe the spanish shills. The spanish goverment is flooding us with immigrants to dilute our identity but native catalans are the whites and most intelligent in all Spain, and this triggers the spaniards as you can notice.

>our percentage of GDP is slightly bigger than our population
wow, its almost as if not all regions had the same GDP
also the same as Madrid and Basque country in case you dont know

wow the capital and the Basque Country with its special economic system, really activates the almonds. And even if we were the poorest so what? If we want to leave we leave.

>If we want to leave we leave
thats not how it works Jordi, you actually don't get to choose that all by yourself

>you actually don't get to choose that all by yourself
Make us.
But seriously doesn't matter what happens you're creating so many independentists and pushing catalans to hate Spain even more and more. Also the more social divide between catalans and xarnegos the better.

it was very "torpe" (idk how to say in english) to send beatings to a vote that was shit and illegal anyway to be fair, only gave international attention to the yearly catalonyan whines that nobody used to care for outside of catalonya

Thing is this is going away, you can't expect catalans to say "well that's it I give up" just because Rajoy increases the agression towards Catalonia. Whatever the spanish goverment does will be met with resistance, and only a fool would think we're going to get to a point where tanks will invade Barcelona and kill people. Heck, even if that happens we will win anyway, some death catalans in exchange for eternal hate against Spain, I'd buy it.
Btw nice pic.

Firstly, it's hard to be sure independence would actually be to Catalan's benefit. Liberty is great and all, but losing out on the EU market would really hurt them. I think many people severely underestimate the full price of independence. You've got to consider all the angles without getting caught up in the rhetoric

Secondly, it's hard to be sure what the majority actually want. The illegal referendum is obviously going to be heavily biased towards pro-independence voters, since the people ok with the status quo are likelier to just not vote.

That said, the way Spain is handling things is atrocious. It makes way more sense to actually consider the issue democratically, maintaining the goodwill of Catalan and the international community in the process. Police brutally is just gonna push the people who were okay before towards the independence camp, and give a lot of steam to the movement.

Look fagget i work at the other side of my city (Barcelona), in a multinational of YOUR country letting the little competence of my neighbours and citizens in the trash. I have no car, i have no home, my land is at one step to burn down, and the politicians and burgoise is fighting each other in attempt to throw US to fight HIS WAR.

My country hates me, and i giveth them my life even without wanting it.

Im sick of this two faced coin. I am the coin and if this goes as bad as it looks i'm going to burn down all those bastards who made my country go to hell, and no they are not the spanish people ( maybe some radicals). If they want a radical land i will be on them.

It is funny Sup Forums has any sympathy for Catalans considering the turboleftists there make BLM and US colleges look libertarian. At least the parties were good.

It's much more complicated than that, but if the spanish goverment never allows a referendum, what else can we do?

You need a better english if you want to ramble. What was your point?

You are right, my english is not perfect, but you can understand the essential. We are not rich, those who are, want us to fight each other and people blame me for nothing.

If those who want war throw us on it by his incompetence or sadistic thougth i will take all my efforts to fuck them all.

>Manolo detected.
Be loyal to Catalonia or go back to Andalusia.

I'm talking about spanish and catalonian stupids, i have no banner and you cant put me on a side. If i fight if fight ALL OF YOU first of those politicians bastars OF BOTH SIDES.

You have to take a side, if you're in Catalonia support it and if you don't want then go back to your grandparents village and support Spain from there. T'has de mullar Jordi Martínez.