Degeneracy in Ancient Rome

One common argument for the supposed immorality of homosexuality is the belief that degeneracy i.e. sexuality not conforming to "traditional" values, is what caused the empire to fall. Never mind the fact that there were a myriad of factors that went into Rome's downfall, why is it then that Rome reached it's apex during this period of "degeneracy" and only fell after adopting Christianity and our current understanding of sexuality? Could it be that all this gender essentialism and traditional values aren't as important to a great civilization as some would suggest?

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youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ
youtube.com/watch?v=aHk9JoXoBMY
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_Christians
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
twitter.com/AnonBabble

youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ

>"how can people say X caused Rome to fall when it was really a myriad of things!"
>"but clearly it was because of Y"
Do you realize how stupid you sound?

Did I say what it was caused by? No, merely that Rome's collapse coincided with Christianity. I didn't suggest a causal relationship.

Kierkegaard, who was a Christian, believed we should be tolerant of others and hard on ourselves. This is Christian, the gentile isn't condemned because they don't know any better. To live as Christian means accepting others, even if you're a goose stepping fascist towards yourself.

You implied it

Rome fell because of a number of things , first degeneracy was a thing of a few elite usually and homosexuality was not common in ancient greece or rome and was actually punished.

Pic related is greek text
you should search for original text instead of interpretations of mr shekelstein

southern euros are just degenerates.

northern pagan cultures threw homos in bogs

Rome died for a lot of reasons and to my knowledge, it was above all else due to the fact it was military in nature and a lack of military action fucked it over.

Romans had fuck all to do but act like /fit/ and work, course they went for easy lays with other dudes, old greeks fucked animals a lot, wasn't that that killed their "empire" either but doesn't mean it didn't help or that its logical to do either behaviour.

If you want to fuck dudes, I ask only that I never get to hear it, have you mention it, act like a faggot dick sucker/unironic "boy pussi" spouter and that you act like a upstanding citizen, do all these and I could not give a single shit but the average gay guy is so obnoxious its justified to dislike the movement and the kind of people inside it.

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Homosexuality was never accepted by the best of the Romans or Greeks.

youtube.com/watch?v=aHk9JoXoBMY

>Implying Northern European cultures weren't nigger tier barbarians.

rome fell for many reason, high unemployment, lavish life styles being support by a welfare state, highly inflated currency to a point were the roman government would not except its own money, Political corruption, slave labor fueling the unemployment, not to mention expanding it's borders to an unmanageable size along with all the barbarian tribes out for some revenge. Let's not forget that rome was sacked from with in.

No he didn't.

It would be more proper to say that Christianity adopted Rome's standard of sexuality.

Nevertheless, degeneracy was common in Rome. The last seven emperors, for instance, were fags. The most degenerate emperors, Caricalla, Calligula, Domitian, Tiberius, Nero, Comedus, and so forth, were sexual perverts.

The reality of the greatness of Rome is that it took about 400 years to build, and then it coasted on that momentum for another 400 years. The Empire was already on the decline as soon as Augustus ate that poison date.

YEs he did

doesn't change the fact that med faggots raped boys along with their proto-muslim brethren.

germanics didn't tolerate gays

whole mediterranean/middle east is just sick

rather be a barbarian then a gay pedo

that semendrinking meme is written by a jew/christian
it's literally as credible as viking horned helmets

>Roman Empire didn't fall just because of pedos
>Therefore, homosex isn't that bad

user, the stupidity displayed in this argument is only surpassed by pic related.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_Christians

christians really are the least to talk about degeneracy. if you want to go full modern puritan, become a muslim and dont pretend to be some crusader.

The biggest community of LGBT is in the north of europe lmao, are you dense or merely pretending?
Germanics did not even write any sort of records unlike the mediterraneans.
Homosexuality was looked down upon in ancient greece and rome.

>if homosexuality isn't the primary cause they it is not a contributing factor at all
First of all, you're a nigger for being retarded.
Secondly homosexuality is the result of social decline and decadence, not a cause but it can become apart of the snowball effect.

doesn't change the fact that med faggots raped boys along with their proto-muslim brethren.
see this

and thissorry but britbongs are just roman/celtic larpers as germanic you probably have only about 5% germanic dna.
kys

this is the epitome of shilling

ITT faggots who don't understand a view of sexuality devoid from our Christian roots. But honestly, Greeks and Romans had a pretty similar view of sexuality which was composed of a dominant and submissive role. Citizen men were expected to be the ones taking the dominant role and penetrating either the younger non-citizen or woman. It was not frowned upon as we frown upon it today and in the past. As long as the male citizen was the one doing the penetrating, he was not looked down upon because he was exhibiting his innate power and dominance. If a male citizen was the submissive, he would indeed be shunned, insulted, and generally of one of the lowest social positions. However it was acceptable for younger (non citizens) to occupy this role, often being fucked by their mentors, although it is still likely that the majority of these mentorships did not involve sex. To the Romans, who placed a great emphasis on oration, there was one person thought worse than the sub bottom, a man who performed cunnilingus and profaned his mouth in such a way. There are certain insults that correlate with these roles. One great obfuscation of the common views of the ancients lies in the fact that only the patricians and elites of society were educated enough to write the books that survived to this day, which often neglect to mention the common views of the society in preference for how they believed it should have functioned.

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Homosexuality is simply a parasitic disease. If it is allowed to spread through the elite castes of a society, the disease will crash the population of the aristocracy and destroy the high-IQ genetic capital which is necessary for a managerial elite. Sparta was also destroyed by this parasite.

Homophobia is merely an evolved response to this pathogen threat. Any society which does not suppress root out this disease will eventually collapse.

most faggots are in northern europe , its a well known fact , even your governments is run by women.

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Not common in the Republic era. They disliked fags about as much as wed did oh, 30 years ago.

In any event, I think the philisohpy you describe much better than this "gay" bullshit. I've never read of any group in history committing themselves to ONLY fucking other men.

As if taking a dick in the ass dooms one to being a Milo like power bottom.
For their argument to be true, there'd have to be a gene that literally prevents your dick from working in a woman.

Such bullshit. It should be categorized as "degeneracy," and frowned upon, but not as an irreversible mistake that dooms one to being a genetic dead end.

Thanks that was a good read.

Whatever the best model, we need to dispense with the gay/straight bullshit. Troubled young men are pushed into being even MORE degenerate by the libcuck definitions.

It should be obvious to anyone who frequents trap threads that the issue is more complicated than a continuum of gay - straight.

>Is X gay
>No, but it's degenerate.

Just final point > it's pretty obvious that being a power bottom is more degenerate than fucking some twink.

The libcuck gay-straight model doesn't address this.

Kierkegaard is a total globalist cuck. "Oh how can we know?"

We need to bring back calling people faggots. When we were kids we'd call eachother faggots for not being man enough. Hell even my dad would tell me to stop being a faggot if I fell and would tear up over it.
Force masculinity.

Homosexuality itself isn't a sign of social decline, just outward expressions of homosexuality. Closet fags will still always exist, just because you can't see them doesn't mean they're not there.

We like our heroin from dirty needles. Homosexuality is quite rare here.

You are wrong. Homosexuality is a very clear pathology. No healthy man can be "tricked" into being a homosexual, as healthy men have an inbuilt homophobic behavioral response which was forged by evolution. Susceptibility to homosexuality implies an existing disease state.

Hell yeah, dude. We should get this guy to teach kids about masculinity. I hear he's an expert on it.

Muh sexual degeneracy is an american/puritan meme.

No one gives a fuck about fags and orgies and hoes here in Europe. We invented this age. Everything you stand on was born out of the loins of mother Europa and she never gave a single fuck about this stuff. Sure, sure, Inquisition, witch burnings, the Catholic Church etc. etc. All just powertrips, some of them even with a sexually deviant undertone.

Get over it Burgers! You are being held hostage by the autistic believes of the most colossal closeted super homos in history. British puritans!

Rome and Ancient Greece and Ancient Germania and the Celtic Tribes were great despite and totally unrelated to their sexual freedom.

What makes the white race so superior is our sense of duty, discipline and restraint. We can live the wild freedom of tribal Niggers and still not rape everyone to death.

Are you Amerifags so weak that your little societal experiment will fall apart as soon as your men start fucking each other for fun? You are nothing but Niggers then.

Romans were Saturn worshipers.

Meaning they were Pagans.

But Mithra was a Gnostic.

Hail Mithra.

Slaughter the Baal !!!

I genuinely think that there are some mentally ill people that think they should be fucking people of the same sex, but I think the majority of faggots are people who have become deprived sexual degenerates. Why would you try and just fuck girls when you could go out and fuck anything right?

>Romans were Saturn worshipers.

The Temple to Saturn is found in Rome.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

Peak degeneracy happened in Rome just before collapse

Family is the basis of civilisations.

>Just final point > it's pretty obvious that being a power bottom is more degenerate than fucking some twink.
Agreed. Not gonna disown my son because he fucks a few girly betas in his college days. But any parent would be ashamed of the opposite, I'd think.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more in USA, south america and asian countries.
also I literally don't know a single faggot.
don't make false claims.

I would believe that but the vast portion of homosexuals tend to show absolutely no interest in women. Like they're not wired to be sexually attracted to the opposite gender. Whether you're born with it or it's something developmental is something to be discussed, as well as whether or not same-sex attraction can be "cured".

Faggots are rife in late stage civilization, after the race's virility is spent.

This. Being a faggot have basically become part and parcel of the American culture now.

>why is it then that Rome reached it's apex during this period of "degeneracy"
What are the 60s, 70s, 80s.
>and only fell after adopting Christianity and our current understanding of sexuality?
Same reason paganism/Islam/Budihism gained so much ground in the West last 80 years. Rats trying to jump ship.

And to clarify, Rome already had split and had a civil war before becoming Christian. They were already on the downswing and people could feel the end coming.

I see it with some of the kids that my kids go to school with. There are a couple that are going to end up being faggots for sure, whether or not that has to do with their parents is still up for grabs. The people I see as adults that are faggots tend to be more degenerate in every aspect of their lives and I genuinely believe that it's easier for them to act out their degeneracy in faggot culture than it is in hetero culture so they run with what they can get. There's always those outliers that live the typical suburban life with no degeneracy as a coupled pair, but I see one of those to 100 degenerates.

>USA, south america and asian countries
Not gonna argue with this.
You can look into which demographics have higher LGBT representation, though.

>part and parcel
stahp

I can't tell if htis is a joke or not but Jack Donovan is unironically pretty based on this subject.

Other then being a faglord that is.

Romans 1:27

>And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I too enjoy awakening the male beast, resisting a larger, raging man crazed with power forcing me into a prone position, face down, crushed beneath his weight, feeling each blow, hearing him growling each curse of contempt for my weakness as he distributes his weight across my body to pin me further until that moment where it becomes silent but for the grunting pants, when he realizes he can rob my manhood completely, violate me in ways my conscience will never forget and my shame will keep me silent forever and protect him from any consequences. In that moment, he owns me and becomes a god among beasts and makes a decision from deep within his nature that has no conscious thought. He only knows he has an opportunity to feel pure power over a conquered being, and his flesh immediately guides him to my weakest, most unprotected area.

The pants are ripped down, strained pleas for mercy go ignored, and he rams his throbbing hard cock between my legs until fierce, mindless determination finds its target inside me. In the sweaty, furious writhing of rage and hate, skin stretching skin, my breathless squeaks synchronize with his snarls, and my body lurches in time with his feral grunts, my manhood broken. I become just a pile of meat being used, reduced to an object, and in surrender, accept the defeat and just lay there, waiting for him to finish so the glorious beast possessing him is satisfied and leaves.

Then peace. I am left there, broken, forever changed, lying there in frozen in the pose he will always remember me in. I have been taken, I have become property, and yet abandoned to lie there as instant living trash. Life must go on. And yet the moment lives forever.

not latvia, that's for sure

>sees law explicitly sentencing pedofags to death
>cites it as proof that Greeks were all pedofags
Typical {{{Germanic}}}

>liberal insanity forces people into being sexually abnormal

100% agreed but the answer is not to implement puritan style >man on women, missionary, only for reproduction< procreation. Sex can have a mystic component, sex can be entertaining, sex can be socially cohesive but most of all sex can just be not other peoples business. The biologically predetermined roles of men and women must be rediscovered. Discipline and restraint must become a virtue again. Yet just because our degenerate society pushes for sexual liberty the solution isn´t automatically to aim for the opposite. If we are to be more than Niggers, slaves to our impulses, we must allow the freedom to fuck whomever we like building on a communal trust that people (deviants, fags etc.) will still be hard working, upstanding members of white society. Heil.

>why is it then that Rome reached it's apex during this period of "degeneracy"

What do you consider its apex?

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I was making fun of the guy who said fag bashing stops kids from becoming gay. In reality it probably just gives them a masochism fetish.

I've heard this before (Christianity -> destruction of Rome), but it makes more sense the other way around, and is also more historically credible.

If things weren't going shitty before, why abandon the old ways? Religions that have been around for centuries are just going to fold to some Jew in the furthest flung part of the empire?

No, in fact one of the largest wave of converts was during a bad string of plagues. And even if you're not convinced, the better half of Rome lived on for thousands of years, only to fall after "christians" sacked Constantinople and left it vulnerable to the Saracens.

meant for

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Just because your dad didn't love you and you turned to cock doesn't mean that everyone has to.

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this degeneracy actually was what depopulated Rome and caused the need for supplants in the army to be barbarian, there were not enough Roman males to supply it like there were in earlier days, Marian philosophers talked at length about this loss of independent hard working males to softer easier lives that were selfish

It's happening again

>Family is the basis of civilisations.

100% correct. Families will not die out because some deviants want to fuck around and experiment. True homosexuality is a myth. There are different shades of the spectrum and there´s most of all perverts (~5 % of the population) who just want to enjoy life. None of this has to be the end of society. As a matter of fact, til the semitic religions came along, when sexual freedom reigned supreme in Europa the civilisations that we still build on today were in their prime (500 BC - 200 AD). The fall of the ancient world was due to the massive demographic pressure from the outside (Germanic and Celtic and Slavic tribes looking for gibs) and because of the changes of the internal power distribution through the advent of Christianity. Basically Rome fell due to immigrants and religious fanatics. Sounds familiar?

People can't handle wealth

>"The acquisition of riches has been for many men, not an end, but a change, of troubles." 12. I do not wonder. For the fault is not in the wealth, but in the mind itself. That which had made poverty a burden to us, has made riches also a burden. Just as it matters little whether you lay a sick man on a wooden or on a golden bed, for whithersoever he be moved he will carry his malady with him; so one need not care whether the diseased mind is bestowed upon riches or upon poverty. His malady goes with the man.

Moar

HAIL MITHRA? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TALK ABOUT BEING A SLAVE

Stop promoting degeneracy, Helga.

I just find it interesting that the subject is supposed to be what causes the fall of an empire...

And people casually look for explanations in butt sex.

By all means, please show me the linear path of causality between the act of butt sex and the demise of an empire, wherein the last causal factor cannot be caused by any other more common influence.

Apparently the ubiquitous nature of homosex doesnt stop empires from forming nor carrying on. But once its an ash heap, its somehow the faggots fault.

Kind of like today, where 3% of the population is responsible for the other 97% that dont marry, abandon gender roles, break up the brief families they do have, normalize sodomy, mainstream porn, make a billion dollar industry of porn, practice surgical neutering and abort over a million pregnancies per year just in the US.

But those fuckin' queers, man, I tell ya...

>rome falls due to economic collapse by over-pensioning the population and lack of surviving cultural roots
>byzantium lives for a thousand years on the principles of Christianity

really makes me hmmmmm

>erode values
>decrease homogeneity
>collapse
it's not hard, you can see it in real time by watching the US

>byzantium

Byzanz was an absolute beta male version of Rome. A sad copy.

You, like many, are using the word myriad incorrectly. It is not synonymous with "variety." Instead of "a myriad of things" you should say "there are myriad reasons..."

This

There is no proof of an inborn hate of anything. Everything is learned. Keep assuring yourself though

Romes fall was actually due to immigration. Had they never let the Germans integrate so far into their society the west would not have fallen.

Literally retarded leftist mentality

>WHAT ARE INSTINCTS
>WHAT IS IN-GROUP PREFERENCE

You are not born hating things but you have to learn TO SHUT OFF YOUR BRAIN IN ORDER TO NOT COMMIT SUCH THOUGHT-CRIME SUCH AS HATE(BUT ONLY TOWARDS THINGS SOCIETY DOESN'T WANT YOU TO)(OY VEY)!

Did I forget to mention BEHAVIOURAL PSYCHOLOGY AND PERCENTAGES OF GENETICALLY INHERITED BEHAVIOUR? BUT THAT'S TABOO!(OY VEY)!

what the fuck is your guys problem with gay sex? Too afraid to face it that you had tons of Gay sexual interactions as teenager?

It's fucking normal, i have a wife and on the weekends me and my best friend go gaming at his house and to all kinds of gay shit because it's fun. We both have wives. I wouldn't mind if my wife had a female friend that she fucks.

Close minded fucks

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Behavioral psychology is a bastard pseudoscience which exists to push drugs on people.

Hot

Kek, germanic deviant triggering puritan closeted Amerihomos. When are these lazy, fat fucks going to get it? Greatness is not about who you fuck or not fuck but about what you achieve in life. Work hard, be disciplined, be a real white man and stop being scared of some faggots.

You're right, but I was going more along the lines of behavioural inheritance which is stastistically verified.

Stop diddling kids

>scared

you mean disgusted

Straight men find gays disgusting, thats just a biological fact.

>Straight men’s physiological stress response to seeing two men kissing is the same as seeing maggots

I have a similar question, and this seems like a good thread for it.

I've seen it said a lot that ancient Rome had things like women's rights and homosexuality, yet obviously the cultures that came afterwards didn't, since suffrage only happened in the US a century ago and homosexuality stopped being seen as a serious illness even more recently.

So, how were those more modern, ultra-liberal ideas "reversed?" I'd genuinely like to read about how life was for women/gays/slaves/whatever in the first years after Rome fell and a new, stricter government was put in place and cracked down on everything that the people had become used to.

Eve was a fuck up. It was sexual and a form of bestiality. Nite!

>I've seen it said a lot that ancient Rome had things like women's rights

to a limited degree

Gender roles weren't considered a bad thing because they didn't have to be bad things in order for the system to function. Industrial society didn't exist and women didn't have to work. Women don't have to work today either. It's all a scam to drive down wages, destroy social cohesion and turn children into mind slaves of the state through standardized public education.

The more you know.