Are we witnessing the birth of a glorious age of anti self insert MCs?

Are we witnessing the birth of a glorious age of anti self insert MCs?

>anti self insert
What does that even mean?
You can't get more self insert than a shut-in NEET being transported to a fantasy world.
muh suffering doesn't change that

>muh suffering doesn't change that
yeah, suffering is way better than the life of nothing most hikki's live through

that's why there's so much suffering porn in anime

No, Kaneki suffered this much as well.

Let me guess: you have never done any physical labour in your entire life

fuck off

his uselessness make self-insert fags go nuts. that's how it work.

You won't get me to watch this shit. Fuck at least put some reddit:zero or some shit in your post so I can filter it properly.

Would you prefer another generic battle harem where every girl wants to fuck the MC and there's some jokes here and there while the story doesn't progress at all?

I'd rather get more stuff like Re Zero and Higurashi then generic shit like To Love Ru and the other 100000 anime like it.

Did you start watching anime this year?

You know that you can still self insert into a character that suffers, right?
Self insert doesn't mean you wish what happened to the character literally happened to you.

Or else no one would want to self insert if the MC ever got hurt or injured.

I'm not a self-insert fag and his uselessness makes me go nuts. I don't think that's related.

No I wouldn't. LN trash is LN trash, just because Re Zero kinda has a plot and is edgy doesn't make it that much better.
Go wank over ElfenLied you child.

We are witnessing the birth of endless bait threads.

>japs being self aware or self depreciating

This is just a happy accident. They probably still expect you to self insert as him.

Told.

>Higurashi

Yeah I love anime that shits all over the original material. Nice one user.

No, that garbage character is basically a bad rethread of Shinji but done for gratuitous and mindless suffering with some sort of vague moral stuck in between all that typical japanese self loathing instead of being simply born from the depressed mind of Anno.

If you weren't an underage newfag you would understand this, but nope.

>Replying to three posts in a thread with less than ten replies
>Trying hard enough to fit in to bash Elfen Lied as the summerest and sheepish
Do you think that you'll be able of getting sex this year, newfriend?

People don't like to admit it, but Subaru is the most accurate, if not generous, self insert possible. You autistic fucks argue about how retarded he is in every way yet he's accomplishing more than any fucker on the board would.

it's sort of like if HOUION KYOUMA had been stuck int a Fantasy World by the Organization and now he has to use Reading Steiner to survive and stop them.

what is ntr?

>self-insert
Stop with that shit. Most fiction protagonists are self-inserts at some degree because that's how empathy works. Unless you're legit autistic of course.
And suffering porn is as bad as power fantasy, it's easy catharsis.

All those show mentioned are the same shit, you know, right?

ITT: beta males

Oh thank god. I thought I was the only one. Who wants to hang out and play D&D later?

Nah. Lets play Magic: the Gathering together and talk about how we'll never get a girlfriend even though we're really nice.

Why are these the only two options though.

Generic battle harem or Re:Zero. What happened to actual good anime? You know, where characters actually had personalities, motives, and were multi-faceted individuals not defined by 1 or 2 bland quirks, archetypes, or tropes.

Let's say Subaru is anti self insert for the sake of argument. He is so not deliberately but because of the combination of being generic like the mc in battle harems combined with an irritating amount of pitifulness as a result of poor characterization of his motives and personality.

You made me footpalm.

the combination of being butthurt and a beta male

>where every girl wants to fuck the MC and there's some jokes here and there while the story doesn't progress at all?

re:zero is only slightly less guilty of those things than other otakushit.

Not every girl wants to fuck him but they all start to become deeply attached to him and behave as though he is deeply likeable in a not-very-convincing way.

there is a story but it progresses slowly.

Compare what re:zero accomplished in its first 10 episodes with what Madoka accomplished in its first 10 episodes, or what shin sekai yori accomplished in its first 10 episodes.

I really cannot possibly see re:zero being more than a 6/10 anime. I feel generous giving it a 5/10 to be honest.

actually the fact that he's still referring to elfen lied as 'the newfag anime that children watch' indicates that he has been on Sup Forums for a long time. It is very out of date to assume that newfags watch elfen lied.

Did you watch the latest episode where pretty much all the girls said he was disgusting?

And they also gave him explicit clues to things they like to hear in negotiations that he can use to make them listen to him in the next loop.

Not at all. Elfen Lied threads are made as often as overrated shit threads, to initiate newfriends in epic board culture. Last one was barely made a week ago. We are only halfway through summer, not that much time, even if your days are now filled with this community full of likeminded people

Everyone always gets so up in arms about self insert protagonists. Sure, most of them are shitty, like most anime in general, but self insertion pretty much just boils down to how relateable a character is.
Examples: Shinji akari- No one wants to admit they'd be doing the same shit he'd be doing as a 14 year old, but you would.
Guts- Muh suffering protagonist in a dark fantasy world. The same thing as RE:Zero except done better.
Light Yagami- I'm better than everyone and am super smart, but I really don't think death for a good cause is wrong. Pretty much anyone with half a brain thinks killing people for a greater good isn't that bad of an idea.
Tell me you never thought about what you would do in their situations. That is self-inserting. Good protags make you want to be them, and they have some kind of moral code or compass that keeps them relateable and likable. Stop shitting on the idea of self insertion . These stories are to distract you from your life and have entertainment anyway.

>The same thing as RE:Zero except done better
Back to Sup Forums with you

THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC of a self-insert MC is not that the MC experiences things the main character would like to experience, it is that the MC is engineered to be EASY TO IDENTIFY WITH so the audience can imagine themselves as him.

What this usually means in the context of anime is creating an MC with a meek personality that does not leave a strong impression or is an otaku . the classic example is how a huge number of harem anime and manga in the 00s had a main character with virtually zero personality who never took the initiative so that the otaku audience could imagine themselves as him and insert themselves into him.

a new flavour of self-insert MC that has become more popular since them is the cynical highschool student. This is designed to be easy to appeal to for not-very-popular, kind of bitter teenagers who have sour grapes. The cynical highschool student MC ends up surrounded by the attention of beautiful women and affable male friends who, like the harem MC , all want to be his friend and have his company for not very convincing reasons. the audience enjoys seeing cynicism and sarcasm and aloof, unsociable behaviour as "cool".

Wishfulfillment is closely linked to self-insert mcs but not exactly the same thing.

self-inser MCs are a means for an emotionally stunted audience to experience wish-fulfilment more because their ability to empathise with characters who are not explicitly similar to them is low.

Furthermore, a show can provide wishfulfillment and suffering. the audience can enjoy imagining gaining the friendship and admiration of several beautiful girls and doing cute chores with them then disengage and enjoy the drama of the MC suffering in a 3rd person way

>anti self insert MC
*pic not related

evangelion did this 20 years ago

no because I dropped it around episode 10, but even if what you said was true it is probably just a gag or something that will be undone by next reset.

I don't come onto much Sup Forums anymore but when I do I don't see elfen lied mentioned very much at all.

So who is that wolf guy and why MC beheaded?

Guts only has a few aspects of his character which are relatable.

In most other aspects he is not a character you identify with like "that's so me!" but a rolemodel. Someone whose strong personality leaves a big impression and who is much more impressive in terms of character and otherwise than most living people.

Light Yagami is similar in that way, you aren't meant to look at him and see much of yourself in him.

pondering "what would I do in their situation" is not what people mean when they call someone a self-insert MC. When people try to ponder that about gutts or light the answer is probably very different to how light or gutts actually acted in the story because light and gutts are impressive and unusual and different from most people and have characters which leave an impression

what people actually mean when they point to an anime character as being a self-insert character is explained in

I think the point is more that he's been shown to be a piece of shit in the recent episodes to some extent and other characters have called him out for it

Re:Zero has terrible writing and shit characters.
Prove me wrong.

I don't watch this shit show so can someone explain how does this fucktard is supposed to suffer so much?

Read the novels

Why waste my time talking to a wall?

>an anime about time travel where time travelling does not imply living through roughly the same path at all is advancing slowly

wew lads who whould have thought

Self-Insert MCs dont exist those can be named other things like shallow or shit characters, certain archetypes etc.

Self-insert is just a buzzword for people who dislike a certain show but don't know any other way to shit on it.

I'm strictly talking about the anime. I know nothing of the novels, I will admit.
You haven't even tried making an argument.

Self-Insert MCs dont exist those can be named other things like shallow or shit characters, certain archetypes etc.

Self-insert is just a buzzword for people who dislike a certain show but don't know any other way to shit on it.

Speak for yourself faggot. I find Guts to be pretty relatable therefore he's a self-insert.

Ordinary underpowered guy in a cut throat fantasy world where an evil witch and her minions ravage and destroy towns regularly and the 'good' politicians are busy manipulating and abusing the fuck out of each other. Oh, and the MC has the smell of the evil witch on him so many assassins want to rip him apart.

tl;dr just fucking watch it.

This show's entire fanbase is fucking pathetic.

>You haven't even tried making an argument.
Well I guess you win. Good for you.

Did he die?

How do you expect to identify the writing of a work by a visual work that doesn't really in written words? Are you clinically retarded?

>tl;dr just fucking watch it.
why, that sounds like the worst piece of shit

re: zero is good. Sup Forums just likes to complain about everything.

I'd much prefer an "anti-self insert" protagonist than one with a cheat ability, ridiculous growth rate, special snowflake weapon, absurd popularity with women who all want to bear his children, etc.

Well at the end of this arc things will be pretty fucked up and he can't reset it

not him but that's not the actual plot. It's a time loop anime with a lot of lore and a great MC.

Why not just watch and formulate your own opinion instead of being some faggot contrarian?

Wait, so it's actually good?

Is the suffering good enough to outweigh the harem tone and retard-MC antics that happened early on? Because recent webMs have gotten me interested but I couldn't stand the first couple episodes

>anti self insert
You must be kidding right? Or this is bait and it usually is. Doesn't matter. people wish they were in toyota position.
>be hikkineet
>be stupid
>be autistic
>have father complex
>transported to a different world
>meet princess heroine on the first day
>notice you can respawn
>notice you can do magic
>it's dark magic like your edgy teenage self
>meet friends and pussy that you can never meet in original world
>you can never die
Wow, with just that I myself want to be in toyota's position.

The self-insert character depends on the author of the story and not on the audience, otherwise every character could be called a self-insert and that is just false. If you find a character to be relatable that does not make the character a self-insert.

1st arc is great
2nd arc gets boring in the middle but is pretty good towards the end and end at episode 11
3rd arc,which is the reason why people are praising it, is GOD-TIER

>Self-insert is just a buzzword for people who dislike a certain show but don't know any other way to shit on it.
There are more problems to this show than just Subaru's generic character. Quite frankly most if not all the characters exist without purpose. They are archetypes with some kind of blatant flaw that is shoved in your face.
That's not good writing. It's reductive. There's no complexity to the characters. It's a shame really because the anime sometimes has moments that negate this flaw.
Rem's entire motive for killing Subaru, although not explicitly told, is linked to her past. But other than her past and her inferiority complex there's not much to her character other than "I love Subaru."
Also the way Subaru solved the problem about Rem was extremely disappointing. The solution was pretty much handed to him through Emilia when she tells Rem that Subaru is a good guy after the whole lap scene.
Furthermore there is no justification for Subaru's strong feelings towards Rem and Ram when he said he loved them. It is explicitly stated and we are expected to believe it but it feels superficial and rushed.
There's a troubling lack of proper characterization in the series.

Re: Zero's MC is "anti self insert" in the sense that it's his flaws as an un self aware, antisocial NEET stubbornly self-identifying as the protagonist that is the root cause of all his problems. He's a very flawed person, there's a list - pride, wrath, glutton, lust, I forget the rest; and his nature has proven to be unchangeable. His experience in the fantasy world has been nothing but torment due to it.

So at one level it's deconstructing isekai, taking a look at the realistic results of a NEET transported to a fantasy world but the narrative doesn't really dwell on that before moving onto its more complicated themes of sin and the mechanism of its timeloop and general worldbuilding. The protagonist isn't just a flat deconstruction of isekai, it's more of study of excessive pride and narrow vision imo.

He suffers because he's forced to go back to checkpoints every time he dies, repeatedly experiences gruesome deaths, repeatedly sees his loved ones gruesomely killed and it's all ultimately shown to be carefully curated and intentionally designed by the person controlling his timeloop in order to mindbreak him towards total evil, apparently.

The room for discussion of the convoluted plot - most of which comes from spoiler arcs not covered this season - is probably half the show's hype. Seeing it here on Sup Forums is what got me to give it a chance, anyway.

Its light novel source material reads like fan fiction trash but the lore so far seems to hold up and the anime maintains a relatively high standard for writing and production value. I usually avoid current season, and shonen shit especially, but I find this show acceptable.

But why are these two the only options?

As you watch it, you'll find out that the retard genki antics are actually a mask and he's actually depressed as shit. Everything after episode 11 is excellent but the rest is good too.

There's no harem either, he gets btfo and abandoned by one of the girls later on and only one girl actually likes him. The MC has actual flaws and isn't what he appears to be.

I'm speaking for people who are not delusional; you are delusional.

Gutts would be overall relatable to some war veterans, other than that, no, only a few aspects of him would be shared by the readership of Berserk, e.g. his shyness and reservedness in joining the band of the hawk.

most of the readership of berserk would be nothing like him in terms of character.

how can you look at the way Gutts' approaches mortal peril and think "wow, I see so much of myself in him"
what a dumb fucking retard you are.

Have you seen an anime with a middle ground MC? Most anime is shit and most MCs tend to fall into those 2 categories.

Also, Sup Forums keeps confusing the bland archetype MC for self-insert characters and that is just wrong because it's almost always never the case. Pic related is a confirmed self-insert character.

someone post the suffering chart!

>Furthermore there is no justification for Subaru's strong feelings towards Rem and Ram when he said he loved them
Subaru was about to run away with Beatrice when he remembered the hand holding thing and realized that they weren't heartless monsters. So, he committed suicide in that loop to amend their view of him and also to stop Rem dying due to the shaman dog bite.

it's not really, but the MC is supposed to be a special snowflake of sorts. He's either very "this" or very "that". If he's in-between, he's just mediocre, and that's not very special.

Joseph Joestar

look at this beta male who can't self-insert into guts. fucking gaylord kill yourself

He's nothing like Shinji, Shinji was smart enough to run away from his problems.

I've seen someone that suffers a lot more and there are people that wish they were him. Subaru is still a shitty self insert character. See how in the latest episode the author actually used Subaru to show how girls treat him in real life. It super obvious.

You mean the guy that constantly asspulled his way past all his enemies?

Isn't the point of harem that the MC is so neutral and forgettable you can project yourself into his position?

Edward Elric.

Maybe that's because Madoka tells it's story in 12 episodes instead of 24.

yes, but re: zero isn't harem. even for non-harem anime, the MC is either leans towards being an overpowered Gary Stu who's love and respected by all or a loser like Subaru without special abilities and desirable traits who most characters don't really care about (except for Rem, for some reason).

Story of my life.

How do I become more like Reinhart?

The fact that re zero is popular just shows at what state the anime industry is in. The people who buy shit are the otakus who most of the time are cynical bastards with no female contact.
This gets reflected in the anime we see nowadays, cause they have all the buying power. Only a few studios get the chance to work on something they enjoy and still make a few bucks.l

The thing is Madoka is plot driven and not character driven.

Until Rebellion, Madoka's characters were not really fleshed out.

Jojo fights is chuck norris-tier anyway and that's what makes it funny, no need to focus on that but Joseph's character tend to repel otaku self-inserts.

I'm not suggesting re zero is harem, I just mean there's room for MC's who are average and mediocre, not special snowflakes

It's a good thing White Fox enjoy making Re:Zero then hey

Is there uncensored version? I remember ep1 was censored shit.

The fact that a loser neet has so many female friends in this fantasy world is enough to be called a harem. Its so obvious to whom it panders too.

Exactly. But it shouldn't have to be that way. You can write a flawed character and still make that character interesting.

But Subaru has no redeemable qualities. Even his "good" qualities like his caring nature come of as generic, shallow, and don't really redeem him in any way.

The anime went half way in making an interesting character. It would have been great to see a powerless human without any special abilities survive and struggle. But right now, Subaru feels one dimensional at best and the reasons why he went so far were mostly due to plot conveniences and, in episode 16, characters spoon feeding him information for whatever reason.

>anti self insert
for you

when you ignore his "return by death" ability and the fact that he has an affinity for dark magic (which he can't control): that's pretty much what Subaru is supposed to be; just an ordinary guy without special properties. He's obviously going to change drastically throughout the series due to "character development" but Subaru is supposed to be an average guy.

But everyone in the comments section complains about him being weak or useless despite the fact. If you took an ordinary person and dumped them into an isekai setting/RPG world, they'd be useless too. Subaru is what he was written to be.

Emilia left him, and the only female friend has he has left is Rem.

>Even his "good" qualities like his caring nature come of as generic, shallow, and don't really redeem him in any way.
I get a feeling that a lot of it is just him imitating his favorite anime protagonists.

It's just that some people like the "suffering" and the "edginess" of the show/ln

I for one found it too overbearing.
They're lingering too much on Toyota's frailties it's becoming tiring for me the viewer to see him repeating the same mistakes over and over.

For me they needed to balance the failures with some victories, some change in Toyota that signifies that he's learning something from the loops. It just seems that Toyota takes one steps forward and then two steps backward with them loops because of the LN "plot".

If you've played Dark Souls it's similar to those "Artificial difficulty" complaints that separates the good sections which are difficult but fair to the shit sections that are just gank squads.