Former Ghibli producer shits all over it

>Interviewer: How do you see the studio progressing from this point, then?

>Hirokatsu Kihara: "I have two versions. One is deep and one is easily digested."

>Interviewer: I will go for the deep one.

>Hirokatsu Kihara: "I imagine you’ve heard about the female discrimination that goes on? People aren’t necessarily looked after or cherished. There’s a sense that everyone is replaceable – even Miyazaki. Rather than hire creatives with great ideas, they hire people who will please the producers. They want followers, not leaders – that’s why the work is reducing in quality. The people that have worked at Ghibli leave quite fast – and never come back."

dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/32131/1/the-strange-secret-world-of-studio-ghibli

Is it really Miyazaki's fault that Ghibli is now dead?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_Japan
variety.com/2013/film/awards/oscars-19-films-submit-for-feature-animation-oscar-1200798376/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>Japanese corporate culture
It was doomed from the very beginning.

>There’s a sense that everyone is replaceable – even Miyazaki.
How is this Miyazaki's fault? It's the profit-geared attitude. Creative insight and even reputation matter less than financial input and financial output.

While art is and always has been an industry (the greatest Renaissance masterpieces were simply pretty pictures commissioned by the Catholic Church or wealthy nobles), there has always been ideal that artistic value takes precedence over pure profit. A lot of studios have lost their way in that regard and merely pump out the next piece of shit for their next buck.

This is why so many people love KyoAni: they have an uncanny talent for making adaptations of shit, uninspired slice of life bullshit, but they treat even the shittiest anime with love and care and always make something beautiful out of it. It's also why Shinkai is so loved (even though Sup Forums considers him a meme): whatever he produces is always beautiful, with most of his shots not being out of place as desktop wallpapers.

It's the age old irony of the artistic world: those with artistic integrity become wealthy and end up losing their artistic integrity. They lose it because they had it.

>even Miyazaki
Good luck with that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_Japan

That just sounds like how the anime industry works as opposed to anime. Hire yes men that will do the producers whim and has brand value with collector otaku as opposed to competent creative types.

...

> the anime industry works as opposed to anime
What.

This is literally the most insightful thing I've seen posted on Sup Forums all day. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Good on you.

Women confirmed for killing anime

>they hire people who will please the producers
Who is "they"?

The majority of studios have never had a significant choice in what they adapt though. Would you really blame them for not putting love into something when they don't like it? I pretty sure that's a reason why quality of studios varies so much aside from staff moving around.

>While art is and always has been an industry (the greatest Renaissance masterpieces were simply pretty pictures commissioned by the Catholic Church or wealthy nobles)
That's the most retarded thing I've seen posted Sup Forums all day, and I'm not even an artfag; I haven't created anything in my life.

I loved the Grudge. It was my favorite horror movie. No splatter or blood. Just that feeling of hopelessness against that malevolent ghost thing.

Especially when it appeared below that girl's bed sheet with her inside. That was so deliciously unfair. The bed is the most sacred sanctum that hides you from spooky beings and monsters and other dreadful things. If the grudge thing can even appear there, then all is lost.

Do you think artist work for free?

It's true though. What's regarded as great works of art in history has always been work created for hefty payment.

In my infinite wisdom I'm able to distinguish between artistic desire and greed. Perhaps one day you'll graduate from being a retarded parrot and stop believing everything you read on the internet.

>What's regarded as great works of art in history has always been work created for hefty payment.
Nice bait.

Animation is a work of love and art, when money comes before creative freedom it will slowly stagnate, just like the whole anime industry.

Also the discrimination is dumb, some of the best manga I've read are made by women.

Who's the yakuza-politician-entity at Ghibli that made it rich?

Trying to earn money doing what you love is greed? Are you sure you are not the one baiting?

I see you're one of those autistic people with no concept of human motives. To say that "art is and always has been an industry" is unequivocally to say that art is purely about the money. No amount of weaseling and goalpost moving will make this indefensible statement any less idiotic.

He's obviously talking about Toshio Suzuki.

Who is the person that he would not name?

>To say that "art is and always has been an industry" is unequivocally to say that art is purely about the money.
No, it says that art has always been about money. Not PURELY money, but money has always played a role. How else do you think artists put bread on their plates? Only a privileged, miniscule minority of painters could afford to not worry about a paycheck, and often these were painters who had a patron who pretty much financed whatever the fuck they wanted (like Velasquez, who became the favorite painter of the Spanish Habsburgs).

The thing is they have little choice, studios are dirt poor as are their staff.
And yeah tons of extremely popular manga and their adaptions are.

Nowhere did that person state that art is purely about money though.
>art is and always has been an industry
doesn't imply that at all. People don't have one just one motive in mind. Not who you're replying to by the way.

I did not make that statement but I think you are being really pedantic about it for no good reason.

ghibli movies suck

I never understood why people circlejerk them

If you're going to play semantics to salvage a retarded mistake of a statement you made (or haven't made) earlier you should at least try to make it seem believable. Saying that art is always about the money, but not PURELY about the money does not make one speck of difference, for the simple reason that it's patently clear that many great works of art have been made PURELY for artistic desire. This is so easily demonstrated that if you had any self respect you would feel stupid for ever thinking otherwise.

I'm honestly not sure if you're really this stupid, I bet most of the posts disagreeing with me are just playing devil's advocate like the contrarian faggots that they are because they don't like my tone, but the original retard really does believe that the "starving artist" archetype is a complete myth.

You might be autistic.

>There’s a sense that everyone is replaceable – even Miyazaki.

Good joke. Too bad Miyazaki retiring literally killed the studio.

I made a screencap of the exactly same panel.
This feels strange user.

If he can't understand the emotion and subtle character development he certainly is autistic.
I can understand you not liking the interesting worlds you are being dropped into I can understand you not liking the character's depth, but not seeing why somebody else would like the movies is stupid.

Commissioned to do whatever work you want =/= producing a product (a commodity) to sell plastic junk or toys to as many people as possible.

A better analogy would be super rich Japanese businessmen or like Bill Gates giving some talented anime producer a shit load of money to make a masterpiece. The idea was that you would enlist talented people to produce something beautiful for its own sake, not for profit. Those Renaissance nobles never expected to make their profit back; it was their own way of glorifying themselves, appreciating artists, and proving themselves to be good people before God.

Ignore retarded shitposters.

Meant for

Pimps.

Meant for

Ghibli should honestly just close up, They won't make anything decent in the future that can rival WOTH/Castle in the Sky etc.

Latest one I watched was Up on Poppy Hill and it was generic as you could get.

>Commissioned to do whatever work you want
Not him, but "whatever work you want" generally meant "whatever work you can sneak by me without offending me enough that I revoke your commission and order you jailed."

>Rather than hire creatives with great ideas, they hire people who will please the producers. They want followers, not leaders – that’s why the work is reducing in quality.
Are we talking about Hollywood here or is this still Sup Forums - Anime & Manga?

>proving themselves to be good people before God.
That's only true for retarded protestants, though, not for catholics.

The problems of Hollywood are also present in the anime industry. Hell, look at what they're doing with Berserk: it's such a prime example of an inferior remake/sequel to a beloved classic that it might as well have been something straight out of Hollywood. Or what about DBS, which clearly had zero thought put into it and sometimes downright contradicts established canon?

Except it's the same shit.
Commissioned to do an original anime in order to sell BDs of it is exactly the same.

And so what if it's to sell toys, that doesn't mean something doesn't have value as art. As said you're making up creative freedom where there was much less than you imply.

> Berserk: it's such a prime example of an inferior remake/sequel to a beloved classic that it might as well have been something straight out of Hollywood
DBS is a valid example, but Berserk, dumb as it is, is clearly a different thing from Hollywood-style remakes - it's a new adaptation of an ongoing manga, and there was no reason for them to think of it as a money machine, because the anime was never a huge success. You should have gone with the Rebuilds or something instead.

I'd like to add that DBS is a sequel to a franchise that's been shit for well over two decades.

But that's wrong you fucking idiot.

>the anime and manga industry allows a futa hentai mangaka to publish a manga about girls riding motorbikes inspired by K-ON and Top Gear

No catholic with half a brain has ever done that, they just pretend for others.

And it was pretty fun, what's the big deal?

>>the anime and manga industry
are hired by production committees to sell products that use anime and manga as an advertisement.
Please buy music CDs, motorbikes and merchandise.
Also, please listen to what the police says on traffic control.
This message was sponsored by the Baku-on Production Committee.

Gurando Suponsoru onegaishimasu.

Congratulations on offering an unsubstantiated contradiction rather than an rebuttal.

What that guy said is right, in that art has been commercial for as long as the concept of commerce has existed and that the only distinction between a generic artistic creation and the "fine arts" is simply whether it has the backing/approval of wealthy or powerful people.

Furthermore, this is still very much the case in the modern era. Who do you think promotes and consumes Cubism, Dadaism, and all of the other abstract/anti-art movements in the fine arts? One look at the (entirely justifiable) scorn and hostility towards any of that by everyone who isn't an old money socialite, a noveau riche millionaire with pretensions of artistic taste, or a brainwashed art school graduate working at McDonalds should tell you that it isn't the grassroots of western civilization that is responsible for the primacy of that rubbish.

When will this meme of an old fart die?

When you hear that most italian art was about dick measuring wars between different states you're going to be stunned. Lrn2history.

The funding sources and process are also included in "the industry."

That's what I meant, it's great.

It's the other way around. Production committees are made up of the the anime and manga companies and work with music, merch and other companies. The original manga clearly was the mangaka's interests wrapped up into one aside (from futa) and the anime studio and publishers worked with bike companies to get sponsorship.

They're the same shit over and over again
Same 70s artstyle
Muh up-and-coming girl heroine
Muh environmental messages
Muh boring characters with no personality
etc.

Fucking overrated boring shit

>for the simple reason that it's patently clear that many great works of art have been made PURELY for artistic desire

If it's so patently clear, go ahead and name some of them.

They're the same good shit over and over again.

I wonder what it would be like to live in a world where everyone has my level of mental finesse. It seems impossible nowadays (short of being extremely polite and submissive) to avoid being the subject of strawman attacks. Have you ever felt that way? Express a slightly liberal statement and automatically, I promise you it will always happen, someone will have you pegged as a feminist hippy nu-male. I've grown tired of this black and white thinking, I'd rather not chat with the tone deaf.

Quality post.

>they have an uncanny talent for making adaptations of shit, uninspired slice of life bullshit
their adapations are still shit unispired slice of life bullshit

Well, you could name the protovanguards (Realism, Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, Cubism or Expressionism) as examples of artists going strictly for their aesthetical values, getting laughed at, and then receiving praise. Their works remain the same.

Art for the artist IS quite a new concept, though.

>Good luck with that.
In that specific case I'd have to say it's the voice of rationality speaking. The big wigs know they need to find a replacement fast or their investment is going to go down with the old man.

That's a bit biased don't you think. Not even Miyazaki himself follows that in more than two movies that are practically one a remake of the other.


You won't deny their production values are really the best in the TV industry, no? I mean, I hate them too, but they are good at what they do.

If the result is still shit and something you hate, maybe they are not actually as good at what they do as you believe?

>You won't deny their production values are really the best in the TV industry, no?

Slapping filters over everything doesn't give you the best production values, user.

Yakuza

The Emperor.

I think what that user is getting at is how it looks rather than the whole anime is generally decent and consistent.

Tojo.

Still better than generic harem anime.
If Ghibli close doors,wich studio will take his place?

You're one to talk, Shaftfag.

Quality of animation is pretty much beyond my personal tastes, it's about fluidity, complexity and consistency, among other things. If they had any passion for anything of interest, their craftmanship would be far more enjoyable to watch than the fucking shit they do.

For example, I enjoy René Laloux's films, I find them very interesting, but they are animated on fucking paper cutouts most of the time or piss poor hand drawn animation the other. It is mostly not good animation made on a shoestring, not good production values, but great artistic merit!

You're right about that tho

Didn't they already let all their animators go like two years ago?

It's also worth mentioning that, tying into what one of the above posters said, the preeminence that Miyazaki enjoys in the west has less to do with his movies necessarily being qualitatively superior to everything else out there (some of them are obviously great) as much as it does with one dude on the Oscar committee being a massive fanboy for Miyazaki. It's the sole reason why Miyazaki is held in higher regard over here than other directors whose works are at least as good (Satoshi Kon, for example).

The Oscar thing is obviously a big part of it, but simply being family-friendly is also part of it. I mean, they're far more mainstream and commercially successful than Kon's stuff in Japan, too, even the stuff pre-Spirited Away, because they are intended for a wide audience.

Well, the Wind Rises and Princess Kaguya film duo felt like a farewell, even if Takahata says otherwise. Ghibli is gone.

Shaft, because Madoka almost gets a indication for the Oscar. Just joking
variety.com/2013/film/awards/oscars-19-films-submit-for-feature-animation-oscar-1200798376/

>Oscar committee being a massive fanboy for Miyazaki

Hah, nice joke. Miyazaki is only as popular as he is here because Disney brings over his movies and John Lasseter is his personal English propaganda machine. Without any of that we would be getting another "Warriors of the Wind" version of another one of his movies.

>Ghibli close doors
>Urobuchi gets a oscar indication before other hacks like Oshii
Japan will never gets other Oscar chance. Maybe Makoto Shinkai on high budget to try.

>other hacks like Oshii

At least the guy has directed a bunch of good films (let's skip the embarassing live action phase, though), Urobuchi has no interesting things going on for him outside of "shock value".

Urobuchi's not even a director, so I'm not sure why you'd compare them.

When Ghilble ending, the only chance will be Makoto Shnikai but for short animations Oscar.

Hosoda, more like. He's the biggest financial force in stand-alone anime movies now, so he'd be the obvious target to promote in the Western mainstream, and his stuff is also more kid-targeted than Shinkai's.

They're both memes.

I still have to get around watching Red Spectacles.

But Kon is dead. God dammit

Shinkai is a fucking hack.

Hosoda at least has some imagination, even if he hams things up and pretty much delivers one-note feel-good messages.

We wouldn't be talking about artistic value but commercial value. Miyazaki had both most of the time.

I don't even like Shaft but you're a moron if you don't recognize the superiority of their cinematography next to Kyoanus.

Art existed before money did, friend.

Don't be a retard. Satoshi Kon also has recurring themes in all his films. The plot always interrogates the frontier between illusion/fiction/dreams and reality, since Perfect Blue to Paprika. Good filmmakers are often obsessed by certain ideas or images. Miyazaki as much as Satoshi Kon.

>implying Urk didn't paint this so that Lubba would think he was cool and pay him in the currency of blowjobs

>female discrimination
What?
I recall watching their documentaries and like a good 70% of their workforce seemed like it consisted of women.

But to create this you needed the right color of clay or some shit, which could be traded to right amount of berries, and paintings in turn boosting the aesthetics of your man-cave for some of that fine Borlob booty.

Just because they were hired at a higher rate and treated better than men doesn't mean they weren't discriminated against. If Miyazaki wasn't such a shitlord he would have transitioned into becoming a woman to appease the workers.

This guy worked at Ghibli nearly 30 years ago, I think it would be wise to take his words with a grain of salt.

Yoshiaki Nishimura in an interview said that men are better at fantasy stories than women. I think that is where it's coming from

They don't get director or writer positions.

They do get writer positions, Keiko Niwa in particular.

>implying it doesn't give him more credit