Is the "two base forms" theory for Dragon Ball Super actually how the god forms work...

Is the "two base forms" theory for Dragon Ball Super actually how the god forms work? I'd have a much easier time buying that over whatever bullshit the fanbase sees. Is it just penis envy from fans not liking that other characters can beat up Goku or do fans unironically not understand just how vast the gap between blowing up planets in Z which they never really surpassed in any meaningful sense compared to the amount of power needed to punch the entire universe into nothingness? Not even talking powerlevel numbers or some shit, I just think it breaks the world Toriyama made even more then Z compared to classic DB.

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Does this show get any better after the movie arcs?

Universe 6 was okay-ish

much better imo

What?

They explained this in the Freiza Movie

Base Form Goku and Base Form Vegeta = Same shit from Frieza, they've never improved this.

The form used by Goku against Frieza initially was similar to Gohan's.

He's using God ki without super saiyan.

Its a power up.

Wait, it's confirmed that's how it works? I saw others bring it up on Dragon Ball forums and they get shit on for suggesting it.

Hasn't been confirmed

But then knowing dragon ball, they don't really conform how anything works.

I wouldn't be too sure. One of the guidebooks for GT at least explained how SSj4 was only called that out of convenience and wasn't actually a SSj form. There's a chance it could be explained elsewhere

I'm not sure if that is true, I couldn't see there bases stay at the power they were.

I was under the impression he could acess his God ki and Normal ki separately, which would explain why he is still able to use Saiyan God (super saiyan red), and infuse it with super saiyan (super saiyan blue), or alternatively not tap into any God ki and retain a normal super saiyan form, which is how I would imagine he doesn't one shot every villian after the Revival of F arc.

Episode?
Because it's bullshit and it does not make any sense, even for a retard like Toriyama

All of you are fucking retards
Causal Beerus>>>>Majin Buu
Base Goku was fighting on par with a somewhat serious Beerus (because of the boost from SSG)
There is no "two base forms"

Why can he use regular SSj forms then when Blue is supposed to be SSj1? How the hell did Piccolo not just get one shotted by Frost when he's nowhere near the level of destroying the universe with his punching? How the hell did Future Trunks get so strong so fast?

none of that makes any sense

>Why can he use regular SSj forms then when Blue is supposed to be SSj1?
SSJ = Normal Ki
SSJB = God Ki

Pay attention dumbass.

>How the hell did Piccolo not just get one shotted by Frost when he's nowhere near the level of destroying the universe with his punching?
Are you stupid? Did you not see Goku beat the living shit out of Frost before hand?

>How the hell did Future Trunks get so strong so fast?
What the hell are you talking about?

U6 was okay. The Future arc is much better

>doesn't make any sense

Goku's base never got stronger than Frieza era because he has Super Saiyan.

Goku's base form all through Buu was still the same strength

Super Saiyan got stronger until he could do the full power Super Saiyan

SSJ2 gets stronger

SSJ3 gets stronger

But his base never moves

Him using GOD KI is no different than transforming into Super Saiyan.

SSGSS is Super Saiyan regular ki + god ki

The form he used to fight frieza prior to that is Regular Ki + god ki.

But his standard normal base for is just ki.

Goku isn't a god unless his hair is red.

Blue is Super Saiyan + god ki

>how the hell did Future Trunks

Future Trunks was the next closest to SSJ2 behind Gohan.

Its assumed he's SSJ2 when he fights the androids given that his hair is different despite it being short again.

Plus, its been like 18 years since cell. Trunks would have gotten stronger.

Oh I know, I can get behind Trunks being strong enough to compare to Buu saga characters or so, I just wouldn't understand how he can get all the way to not die against opponents "Godku" needs to use his SSj forms for if he's as strong as SSjG all the time in base now.

>he can get all the way to not die against opponents

Because nobody besides buu was stronger than an SSJ2.

Gohan is shit and doesn't train.

>how he can get all the way to not die against opponents "Godku" needs to use his SSj forms for if he's as strong as SSjG all the time in base now.
Did you even watch the episode? He got stronger as he was fighting Goku besides they were both sizing each other up.

From Toriyama himself:

> Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?

I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.

So yes, SSG is Goku's new base. Or at least when he uses god ki.

That's why the manga version of Goku vs Hit made no sense. Goku shouldn't be able to transform into SSG at will.

>Goku shouldn't be able to transform into SSG at will.
What are you on about? He did so when Beerus was about the destroy Earth.

After the movie.

>After the movie.
Why would that change suddenly after the movie?

Is this the general DBS/DBZ thread? If so I have a question.

What are Vegeta's and Gohan's opinions of each other? It's obvious Vegeta cares about Goku, Trunks, and Bulma in some way or another, while pretty much everybody else is irrelevant to him, but how he feels about Gohan is a huge question mark it seems.

Vegeta and Gohan have interacted with each other an inordinate amount throughout the entire series, so I'm curious whether they could actually be completely ambivalent considering how often the two have fought with and against one another.

Would either one care if the other died?

Well I mean Akria Toriyama didn't pull any plugs on the manga fight with Hit, so I assume he just doesn't care and whatever looks cool.

super changes things that happened in the bog movie and the rof movie

manga is also different during the u6 tournament.
manga: goku can turn into super saiyan god (red) at will and uses it to fight hit
anime: goku combines super saiyan blue with kaioken to fight hit

because suddenly ssj blue takes a ton of stamina to maintain

i think vegeta just finds it a shame that gohan neglected his training and wasted the power he had.

Gohan and Vegeta had a mutual respect for one another as warriors, but now Vegeta just views him as a disappointment like the rest Sup Forums. Even though he achieved all of his dreams and is now a family man.

How I always understood that, Red God was just a temporary form caused by the ritual giving Goku access to the God Ki, I was also sure it was stronger than later Cyan God, which resulted from Goku tapping into the remains of god ki and combining it with SSJ for a more stable, god ki infused form. Vegeta unlocks his god ki thanks to taking part in the ritual and training with Whis in realm full of god ki.

So Red God - requires ritual
Cyan God - something Goku/Vegeta invented when they got an access to god ki

>because suddenly ssj blue takes a ton of stamina to maintain
He could combine it with Kaioken only because it doesn't use that much stamina compared to SSJ.

It's all still a big mess.

>while pretty much everybody else is irrelevant to him,
Anyone know why Vegeta wanted to help Tien here?

>just views him as a disappointment like the rest Sup Forums.
Speak for yourself.

The only okaish episode is Hit vs Goku, the first episode for Trunks' arc is decent, but the rest is meh.

The general consensus on here is that Gohan had no reason to stop training

Just based on the content, it seems Vegeta simply sees Gohan as somebody who is wasting his potential, while Gohan sees Vegeta as just another acquaintance.

I don't think the two are close friends or anything like that.

Canonically, I think their views towards each other are more shallow than they should be since they've fought so many battles together, but Toriyama is a pisspoor writer when it comes to character relations.

Just based on the story writing, it seems Vegeta simply sees Gohan as a softy who is wasting his potential, while Gohan sees Vegeta as just another acquaintance.

Admittedly, their relationship appears more shallow than it should be considering how much time they've spend around each other.

Whoops, messed up my copy and paste.

Whatever helps you sleep at night user.

Unlike others I doubt that Cabba and the others were god level. Goku and Vegeta with god ki in base form are post 4 months training Final Form Frieza, I doubt Buu is as powerful as any of them, because if wew take the stupid jelly Vegeta filler then Gotenks is a fly to them, and Gotenks was stronger than Super Buu.
So Vegeta and Goku can access to their god ki when they want it, but in their casual life they turned it off.

Pretty great outside of the animation, Goku vs Hit is among the best moments in the franchise, lots of world building, cool character moments, the current arc seems interesting.

>So Vegeta and Goku can access to their god ki when they want it, but in their casual life they turned it off.
Nice headcanon

????

I think you're understating Gohan and Vegeta's relationship.

Sure, it's not on the same level that either one has with Goku, but Gohan and Vegeta were directly responsible for quite a bit of character development in each other.

I think a lot of the reason Vegeta softened up as the series progressed was due to exposure to Gohan, and inversely, Gohan toughened up by being around Vegeta.

I'd say they're probably bigger friends than either one is willing to admit.

Vegeta seems to have some respect for Gohan, he unlike Goku thought Gohan should had participated in the tournament, which I find it funny because now Vegeta wants to train FTrunks, unlike Goku who doesn't give a shit about training Goten.

>Nice headcanon
Nice meme. The show has given proofs of this, unlike your retard fanfiction that you love so much,

Goku stopped trying to train Gohan because Piccolo made him realize during the cell saga that Gohan doesn't love to fight.

Don't be a dick. Gohan should be able to train, maintain a job, and be a parent.

>Goku who doesn't give a shit about training Goten.
Why is Sup Forums so obsessed with every character becoming a martial artist? What if they don't want to and have other motivations? Then they turn around bitch about how Goku and Vegeta are obsessed fighting.

Gohanfags thread

What is the best dub of Dragon Ball Z and why is it TeamFourStar's version?

>Goku stopped trying to train Gohan
Goku stayed in the otherworld to see Gohan's training, Goku wanted to see him fight. So your excuse isn't valid. Also Goten in the other hand has too much fun fighting, but Goku has became so selfish that no one but him matter.

Sure but the anime sucks, the manga is the only DB worth seeing

The last time Goku had expectatives for Gohan, everyone call Goku an asshole and he died. Goku learned his lesson, never expect anything from his son

Gohan cared enough about Vegeta to jump in front of a cell blast which paralyzed one of his arms, and then Vegeta apologized to Gohan for fucking up.

SOON
gohan old and busted
the new saiyan trio hotness in

>Gohan should be able to spend time with family, work as a Scholar and somehow keep with both Goku and Vegeta.
Don't be stupid.

Meant to pic related

Right after the movie.

Not minutes after the initial SSG ritual.

That scene implied that Goku lost his god ki, but then in a time of desparation, he scrapped whatever lingering god ki he had left from the ritual.

>Why is Sup Forums so obsessed with every character becoming a martial artist?
In my case because it's canon they are going to become martial artist (Goten and Trunks) in DBO. Second we are in a fighting series. Third Goten and Trunks were showed to enjoy fighting for him but unlike Goku and Vegeta they can behave in society, that would given them some deep and development they really need.
>The last time Goku had expectatives for Gohan
Can't you stop memeing? Goku in the Buu saga when they were in the Kaioshin planet was hyped for Gohan. Just accept Goku was became too selfish in Super, he doesn't for anyone except him. Even Vegeta has been more heroic than him with his butthurt because a non nigger Goku killed FBulma.

Because the cast clearly cares for the source and that's why they have no problem making up good jokes for it.

We finally reached the point where the shitposter genuinely believe their memes.

During the cell saga, Trunks and Vegeta (Both already stronger than Gohan at this point) spend a year in hyperbolic time chamber, then Gohan and Goku went in for a year, came out, and while they went fishing, Trunks and Vegeta spent an additional year in the chamber.

And despite all this, Gohan completely outclassed EVERYONE.

He doesn't even need to train half as hard to keep up with everyone.

Vegeta is boss that speech he gave to Future Trunks is sweet "Don't give up we will find a way"

>DBO
Isn't canon .

>Second we are in a fighting series.
So? Dragon Ball as well other battle shouens have characters who don't fight, hell Bulma is a major character in this series.

>Third Goten and Trunks were showed to enjoy fighting for him but unlike Goku and Vegeta they can behave in society, that would given them some deep and development they really need.
Ok now you're just being stupid.

Vegeta sure has come a long way from that genocidal asshole he was at the beginning

Is DBO's future non-canon? I don't remember any statement saying it's not anymore.

>It's a gohanfag delusion episode

yo gohanfag where is my dick sucking at?

>During the cell saga, Trunks and Vegeta (Both already stronger than Gohan at this point) spend a year in hyperbolic time chamber, then Gohan and Goku went in for a year, came out, and while they went fishing, Trunks and Vegeta spent an additional year in the chamber.
Because Goku is a martial arts master, Gohan is not.

>And despite all this, Gohan completely outclassed EVERYONE.
You mean after Goku fought Cell first, letting Gohan see how he fights. Hell Gohan was still getting rekted until Cell made him mad.


>He doesn't even need to train half as hard to keep up with everyone.
Nice meme, hence why Gohan's training in the Majin arc before the tournament was so fruitful right?

>Isn't canon
More canon than anything else. Also Toriyama has been stealing ideas from DBO, the Z gang fought Frieza's army in DBO, just like in Super. Satan said he wanted Pan to be his heir, just becomes true in DBO. PTrunks seems to like swords, just like in DBO where he has a sword school.
>Dragon Ball as well other battle shouens have characters who don't fight, hell Bulma is a major character in this series.
And what do happen to the characters that don't fight nor are genius like Bulma? I think Goten, the long forgotten character has the answer. And why waste their potential when Toriyama bothered to show how much they like to spar in the manga/Z? That's just lazy writing.
>Ok now you're just being stupid
Pic related.

Getting rekt by cell is still better than anything Vegeta or Trunks could have done. They were amazed by his power even before Gohan got mad.

>More canon than anything else.
Until he adds that DBO shit to DBS it's not canon,

>And what do happen to the characters that don't fight nor are genius like Bulma?.

>What if they don't want to and have other motivations?

>Pic related.
...

Funny enough, shitposter I was with the people that said Toei was going to use a cheap excuse to get rip of Gohan for Trunks' arc. And shut up, a fucking shitposter is in debt with me, Gohan didn't die in U6 arc.

Really? Because Final Flash did more damage than pre SSJ2 Gohan.

Again Gohan was only strong because of Goku hand holding him.

When F Trunks told Goku about the androids killing everyone, Goku regretted he died before fighting the androids because they seemed to be really strong so it's not THAT out-of-character. I agree that Goku has been flanderized but that's ineludible with long franchises with different interpretations

> Until he adds that DBO shit it isn't canon

- The Yo Son Goku Returns OVA is canon
- Android 16 = Gero's son is canon
- 17 and 18 = Lapis and Lazuli is canon
- Trunks x Mai in BoG is canon
- The Jaco Manga
- DBO timeline is canon

Whatever Toriyama himself said or wrote is canon. Just because it's not in DBS or in your head-canon, doesn't mean it isn't so.

A fully charged Final Flash.

I actually miss that move.

>Just accept Goku was became too selfish in Super, he doesn't for anyone except him.
Stop being stupid.

>The Yo Son Goku Returns OVA is canon
>Android 16 = Gero's son is canon
>17 and 18 = Lapis and Lazuli is canon
>Trunks x Mai in BoG is canon
>The Jaco Manga
These are true because they have been referenced in official canon media.

DBO has not YET

That one scene in Super, which is basically common sense to say, doesn't automatically mean Goku's a great person

How big of a reference needs to happen in order for that to work out? Would it count if the Supreme Kai of Time shows up or we actually see future Trunks join the Time Patrol?

The DBO game isn't which Toriyama himself wrote the story for, is less canon than an interview?

They're both equally as canon. Quit being delusional

Retard pls if he wasn't was a good person why would he say it? Quit grasping at straws


youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmN79SDUlc
4:20

>Would it count if the Supreme Kai of Time shows up
>we actually see future Trunks join the Time Patrol?
Yes because in DBS right now time travel is outlawed which goes against the Time Patrol.

I am not saying Goku isn't selfish in Z, my point was in comparasion in Super he is too selfish, he only thinks in himself now.

Retard pls if he wasn't was a good person why would he give Cell a senzu bean to fight his own son?

Leave his pregnant wife and son behind?

Risk Majin Buu killing more innocents and destroy the universe, because he wanted kids to save the world this time?

Quit grasping at straws

He's so dumb, he's almost border-line accidentally evil

You really think Goku was worried about Trunks' well being when Goku said that because he knew Trunks wasn't able to fight if he was too tired.

Vegeta was pretty upset at Gohan being killed by Buu. And lets Goten call him uncle.

Gohan is one of the few characters who's power actually made sense in the cell saga given his get mad potential has been constantly hyped since he was first introduced.

After the Namek saga, power comparisons went completely off the rails. It's a farce than Tien, Krillin, and Yamcha appeared almost as strong as Trunks and Vegeta when fighting the mini cells, and stronger than a tired Goku. Piccolo also should have been irrelevant by the time perfect cell showed up. It also made no sense why Goku was apparently the 2nd strongest fighter by the end despite training less than Trunks and Vegeta.

As much as a meme as power levels are, they kept DBZ grounded through Raditz-Freiza. Character strength went completely bonkers after Scouters stop being a thing.

Vegeta wanted Gohan to keep up his training

>headcannon
the use of god ki is just supa cyan everything else is bullshit fanfiction

Stop trying, even the shitty author said Goku is selfish, only cares for fighting and just think of his family as pals.

>Retard pls if he wasn't was a good person why would he give Cell a senzu bean to fight his own son?
Because he knew Gohan would win retard pay attention. Why else did he sacrifice himself when Cell wanted to nuked the Earth?

>Leave his pregnant wife and son behind?
See above retard

>because he wanted kids to save the world this time?
Because he wanted to the new generation to be able to defend themselves since he would not able to anymore.

Read the manga, retard you clearly haven't.

Not to mention Goku giving in to Majin Vegeta's request, allowing Buu to be resurrected in the first place

Have some of this too

>What if they don't want to and have other motivations?
Haven't you watch Super? Trunks and Goten have spend the series asking everyone to let them fight. This is what bothers me in Super, they waste the time showing how much Trunks and Goten want to fight just to erase them from the plot. At least in GT Goten was all over his girlfriend and showed no interest in fighting, Trunks in the other hand was having his own crisis because he hated his job but wasn't able to ditch it.
And I can´t upload the pic for some reason. But it's from the episode where Vegeta and the rest went to the nameless planet. There Goten and Trunks asked them to let them fight.

>What are senzu beans?
Retards pls

>only cares for fighting and just think of his family as pals.

Not the same user but can you please try to use manga pages only? Even Toei made him more heroic in the anime. Not quite to the levels of early dub where he was a Superman clone though.

>Why else did he sacrifice himself when Cell wanted to nuked the Earth?
Because Piccolo made him realize he fucked everything by not telling Gohan about his plans. And for the rest cry a river, faggot, Toriyama already answered your delusional, Goku is a shit because he is retard.

Filename made me laugh

Kai is nothing like the original Japanese anime.

> Why else did he sacrifice himself when Cell wanted to nuked the Earth?
Well guess fucking what? He probably wouldn't have to sacrifice himself if Goku never gave Cell a senzu bean. And a father should never put his son in harms way because he wants to see a "fair fight"

> Because he wanted to the new generation to be able to defend themselves since he would not able to anymore
Then train them. Don't put the universe at risk when you didn't have to.

> Read the manga, retard you clearly haven't.
I did faggot. Goku was selfish there as well