>but Spain is #StrongerTogeth-
United status-quo Spain lets Moroccans in by the tens of thousands. If the current Spanish government had any plan to stop Spanish replacement and EU tyranny, it would have enacted it already.
>Catalonian independence is what the (((globalists))) wan-
Spain would block Catalonian accession to the EU, weakening the bloc. The secession would embolden other separatist movements to leave and further weaken the bloc. What's more, the EU has already signaled its support for the incumbent Spanish government to retain control over Catalonia.
>but Catalonians are communi-
So you want them to keep having a say in your own democratic process? If they're the leftist scum you say they are, their departure from Spain would free up Spain to pursue its own agenda without interference. There's much more to sovereignty than GDP and square kilometer count.
>but what if California takes a cue from Catalonia and tries to leave the United St-
Good. This is the best possible outcome for American patriots. Fellow burgers, you know in your hearts that our collective differences are irreconcilable, and that our long-term options are "balkanization" or "slow death by demographic change and strengthening central government". Time is not on our side, so the sooner we can act openly on our grievances, the better. See pic related.
The merits of Catalonia itself are beside the point; Catalonian secession would be a big-picture strategic boon for opponents of illegitimate supranational authority around the world. So Sup Forums, do you stand with the EU or for regional self-determination?
Catalonian independence is anti-globalist and you should support it
Except that Northern California would not leave the US either - it's red as hell.
all true, bigly
Of course not. I'd take an extended vacation to support the state of Jefferson. The point is that Calexit would expose fatal and irreparable fault lines in American society, and allow us to act on them before the coasts finally overwhelm us.
Not sure. I saw Obama had a stance on it, so whatever he says, do the opposite.
Fuck off, the State of Jefferson would never join that piece of shit California if it split.
bump
See The comic illustrates a general principle. Yes, Jefferson would happen. You know you would enjoy greater autonomy without SoCal writing your gun laws and taxing you to hell.
yes! i agree with ALL your points burger. I hope we can embolden secessionist movements world-wide. This should be one of Sup Forumss top priorities right now.
>Spain lets Moroccans in by the tens of thousands.
HAHAHAHA, that's precisely what Catalonia is doing
That comic is fucking stupid because nobody here in Oregon likes California.
that's right, this is called counter-secession and happens in every secessionist movement.
this. I support only chaos.
(((They))) are afraid.
>unironically saying that a region far away from Morocco can bypass the central goverment and control the borders and immigration
'muh russia' the all purpose media with no idea what the fuck to write filler article
It would be worth it to let Catalan be independent, let them form a socialist government, and let them fail like all socialist governments do in order to lead to a nationalist state.
See point #3 in the original post. How do you expect to properly answer the Catalonian question while Catalonians are still enfranchised voters in your country with free access to the rest of Spain?
Good to see old Sup Forums is still around. Spread these talking points far and wide, or your own variations thereof. Tear it all down so we can build something better.
...
burger has actually valid points
The Catalan independence referendum has also caused a revival of Spanish nationalism.
Despite the meme socialists have never been popular in Catalonia but I seriously hope we suffer a hard economic crisis so all immigrants leave.
Chaos in the west, but stability in countries like Poland and Hungary.
isn't the whole thing over, independentists BTFOed by the King, the EU, businesses leaving en masse, and people demonstrating against independence?
no one truly gives a fuck. if it's for the lulz...
The catalan president wants to cuck out but many people who gave him support want a declaration of independence next tuesday. Who knows what will happen but I'm hoping for the maximum chaos as possible.
if he does, doesn't he get a dose of army + jail time?
sounds like treason
Our imperial status and geographic isolation lend themselves to some pretty fucking stupid Burgerposting, but we implicitly understand the value of secession. It's built right into our national mythology.
Of course it's treason. He's in too deep to avoid dire consequences for holding the referendum, so he may as well go for broke.
Also good. For the sake of their long-term survival and societal vitality, Westerners need to bring national identity back to the forefront of their lives.
I don't know, the spanish goverment doesn't want to escalate the situation because it will be met with resistance from catalan people and ultimately foreign intervention, but at the same time they know that if Catalonia leaves they're more bankrupted than Greece.
Kosovo became independent peacefully and so can Catalonia. Heck, even South Sudan held a referendum and seceded without problems.
>ultimately foreign intervention,
by whom? everyone says it's an internal thing
as per the debt
archive.is
> The impact of independence on Catalunya's rating is uncertain. Moody's rates Catalunya at Ba3. But the rating agency's baseline credit assessment (BCA) -- an opinion of an issuer's standalone financial strength that excludes extraordinary government support -- for Catalunya is lower at just caa1. Catalunya has high refinancing needs and its liquidity position has weakened significantly in recent years. Catalunya may initially struggle to access financial markets as a newly independent state, certainly until some of the initial uncertainty dissipates.
ba3 is shit
caa1 is just one level above greece (caa2)
seems catalonia is pretty fucked up debt wise
>by whom? everyone says it's an internal thing
Perfidious Albion and muh Russia have every reason to get in on the action in furtherance of their respective goals (Gibraltar and weakening of EU). Although they lack the force projection capability of real countries, K*rdistan is principally pro-Catalonia (meme country solidarity).
>by whom? everyone says it's an internal thing
First the EU once it sees the situation becomes worse and maybe even Russia if a serious conflict between Spain and Catalonia brokes out.
>seems catalonia is pretty fucked up debt wise
We'd have one of the lowest debts in Europe though because the bearer of the spanish debt is the spanish goverment, not us. We'd have to pay only our regional debt and we could pay it in just 3 years without cutting spending once Spain stops taking our money.
Anyway as I said the more chaos the better.
> EU
> conflict
EU strongly backs Spain
you have no army
Russia is not crossing Europe to send troops
user, what deluded fantasy are you talking about?
it's funny how opposing globalism involves breaking apart western countries.
I think it's time we break apart russia to fight globalism.
>We'd have to pay only our regional debt and we could pay it in just 3 years without cutting spending once Spain stops taking our money.
is that accounting for the fact that you'd not only be out of the common EU market, and sunk in tariffs, but also most major businesses would be out of the region by then?
You don't need to send troops to send "humanitarian aid" (munitions).
>mfw just one county away from Jefferson taking Fresno county
C-Can we j-join? Our mayor said we'd never be a sanctuary city!
I would gladly move to Northern Cali if the State of Jefferson were finalized.
And I live in Texas.
arriving from where?
roads, ports and airports will be controled by spanish army
> inb4 muh russian boats
good luck against a NATO backed Med blockade
the trickle of material you could get would only justify you being labeled as terrorists, thus making it easier to crush
user, you haven't thought this through
Whatever happened to Texas seceding? Well, that wouldn't be enough. I support all 50 states seceding and abolishing the entire federal government. That way blue states can be the liberal post-modern utopia they always dreamed of, and red states can become a third-world white-nationalist theocracy they always wanted. Everyone wins!
First that the EU backs Spain because it has been bribed by the spanish goverment and second, do you really think the EU will let Spain to send the army to Catalonia, arrest regional leaders and even kill those who resist without doing anything? Talk about delusion.
And I meant that Russia will sent weapons at most, not troops.
But Russia is the enemy of the globalist so you're doing a disservice breaking it apart.
What the EU cares about is maintaining stability and keep the flow of money so there will be no tariffs on Catalonia because that'd mean a severe crisis in the EU ruining everyone Catalonia trades with, not even Spain wants to stop trading with Catalonia, so not gonna happen. You'd see the very next day of independence a quick draft by the EU to put Catalonia into the common market.
It's funny how Western adventurism involves installing Rothschild central bank branches in liberated countries. As soon as Russia stops acting as a counterbalance to the global banking cartel's ambitions, I'll be 100% in favor of breaking up Russia.
kek
Just send it in rubber dinghies full of brown people, and NATO will surely let them through.
And no one in Washington likes you or California
>bribed by spain
>You'd see the very next day of independence a quick draft by the EU to put Catalonia into the common market.
top kek
sure we will, user, sure we will
that, and 50 seats in the EU parliament for catalonia, of course
kek
The majority of countries in Europe are already in a bad economic shape, the last thing the EU wants is a bankrupted Catalonia and the shockwaves it would produce. Spain would become bankrupt too, specially the regions neighbouring Catalonia that depend on trade with it, and even France cannot cope with losing all the trade it does with Catalonia. When the consequences are so disastrous none cares about how butthurt spaniards will get, the EU will put Catalonia in the common market as fast as possible.