I'm in college and a ton of the liberals I go to school with love to preach holistic healing and going on shamanic spirit journies to heal physical problems and western medicine is racist and culturally raping.
So my question: Do you think shamanic healing (curanderismo healing from Mexico being an example) is a good substitute for western medicine? Does anyone even know the effectiveness of shamanic healing or is it all hearsay? I imagine most shamanic healing ends with the people dying or being worse off than when they initially came.
It's not bullshit, but there are so many fucking idiots "practicing" fake magikal healingz that it might as well be a LARP.
Charles Carter
It does literally nothing.
Be sure to bring it up whenever one of your liberals sees a doctor, or goes to a hospital. I want them to see the differences for themselves.
I have been to mexico, and seen various forms of quack doctors. As far as I can tell, they're glorified physical therapists at best, and well-meaning poisoners at worst.
Oliver Garcia
My initial thought is that its all LARP, I'm in med school so when I hear these shit lords talking about going to a shaman to diagnose their hair falling out or horrific acne it makes me cringe.
I agree with the well meaning poisoners statement as this has been my experience. Personally I think there might be some validity to it if we are purely talking about mental health because it can be a good experience to put oneself in such an uncomfortable situation. My main problem is people arguing that western medicine is useless and if we just practiced things like our ancestors did we'd all be well functioning and healthy.
Andrew Myers
Anybody with a sensible brain could tell you the keys to good health. Don't consume in excess, drink plenty of water, and exercise. I like to think of more-or-less well known practices of health kinda like the side quests. You don't have to do them, but it makes life a little more exciting. Definently not a road that should be travelled by the faint of heart, or those without strong convictions in faith/themselves. Also, any practices involving blood or rituals is probably bullshit that (((they))) created.
Robert Foster
>Uncomfortable situations are good If you want a life coach, we have those.
>Larping this much
Michael Martin
Sometimes it is a beneficial act to expose yourself to chaos you normally wouldn't go near. It can galvanize your own beliefs or cause you to maybe rethink your previous beliefs. For instance, I think we should actively send liberals to majority Muslim countries and see how they fare in their societies. I think it would cure the cancer faster than any LARPing we do on here.
Zachary Ward
>inb4 babby's first Carlos Castaneda novel
It's just a book, not a manual brah. Still a good read though.
James Evans
my perception is anecdotal and thus irrelevant for people who deny validity of intuition and subjective experience.
Joshua Ross
Everything that brainlets can't into is LARPing. It's the new "hurrrrrr tinfoil hat"
Kevin Howard
>handwavium, pomp, and theater >healing ok,
scientific proofs?
Andrew Adams
Go gas yourself
Matthew Nelson
I can agree with that. Some people might complain about the death toll, though.
>My opinion is irrelevant I'm glad we can agree on that.
Logan Richardson
many modern medicines came from plants used by ancient peoples, but (((testing))) and (((approval))) have to happen for anything to become recognized medicine
Asher Rodriguez
Be specific and I'll do what i can.
Luke Ward
brainlet tier comeback
Josiah Sanders
Spics in Mexico often abduct young college-age gringos for human sacrifice. Look it up.
It's just devil worship.
Hudson Collins
show me any example of a clinic, objective, scientific setting with empirical, testable, reproducible evidence of efficacy of ANY "alternative" therapy/medicine having consistent positive effect that is well above baseline/placebo
ANY medicine/therapy at all that is "alternative"
Jaxson Hernandez
Sure. Who needs antibiotics and MRIs and all that eurocentric racist bullshit when some witch doctor can sacrifice a chicken and burn some incense at you.
Why would you take a chemical coctail to treat HIV when you can just rape a baby or a goat like they do in Africa.
Fucking racist.
Kevin Johnson
Accustic healing or healing through ozon to blood injections can heal depression or lower back pain. Why would you exclude or categorize medicine in general? What do you want to heal?
Henry Williams
"The purpose of this research was to understand health intercultural Chileanmodel from a single case study, usinga qualitative methodology and interviews as the primary method of gathering information. Involved five groups of key informants: executivesofHospital Puerto Saavedra, center workers, users Mapuche, users non-Mapuche and Mapuche who do not access care atthis location and structure issues, health care and user perception were addressed. The information collected was analyzed content and theme"
This is my exact feelings on the subject, I see absolutely no reason to suggest to people to seek medical intervention from any alternative medicine because it is all hearsay and basically "my aunts friends brothers sons daughters dog had their genital herpes cured after being raped incessently by a witch doctor in Peru".
White devils ruining the world with technological innovation and sheet, dam nigga.
I agree and don't want to exclude something that can be helpful which is why I am trying to find a benefit to shamanic healing. I am interested in knowing how viable it is and if placebo is strong enough to actually make a difference or if it is better to just not do anything.
Henry Myers
I don't speak or read Spanish, can I get a TL;DR?
Gabriel Baker
pretzel logic will not get you far my friend.
Leo Sanders
We have mapuche/western hospitals, and they work, specially for basic stuff and mental treatments.
This bitter araucano it's one of my favorite things, it's based on formula of mapuche medicine, after the white men arrived and introduced distilled alcohol, Machis (literal medicine women) mixed some herbs used specifically to counter effect the alcohol poisoning, it includes a liver regenerator, kidney diuretic and intestine mucus protector, that's how we defeated the white men fire water, with superior mapuche science.
Zachary Ramirez
*clinical
Tyler Ross
guys the point is that the moment is it scientifically substantiable that it can no longer be called "alternative"
as long as anything is still "alternative" it is non-reliable anecdotal placebo pseudo-science AT BEST
Ethan Butler
>I'm glad we can agree on that.
point being that it is the same of ALL opinions, from everyone
Sebastian Brooks
>It can't be alternative if it really works.
This it's how it looks.
Jeremiah Clark
I'm in medical school and they literally teach us to be respectful of this nonsense and my state's medicaid will pay for it.
James Rodriguez
if it works (can be empirically validated by the scientific method), it can no longer correctly be called alternative
yes, that is correct
Oliver Reed
One of the greatest German doctors and occultists to ever live, Arnold Krumm Heller, learned from shamans and spread their knowledge. He wasn't some Aleister Crowley black magic fag either.
Grayson Williams
>Scientific method this.
Cameron Wood
>when your zealous orthodox establishment profession is 5x worse than suicide
William Brown
>you have cancer >eat these leaves, they will heal you >die
Joseph Richardson
the thing about the scientific method is that it is perfect no matter what you may think or feel about it, ever, as it rest on nothing but absolutely pure physics
Ayden Smith
Look I understand where you are going, why shouldn't you use the things that scientifically work and leave the esoteric part.
It's a package, like being a western doctor and being a greedy fuck.
I studied or 5 years, why shouldn't I earn 50 more than an old lady that studied and healed people for 40 years.
And we don't even pay them
Christian Jackson
also, no need for any hatred at all, for you only seek to hate the message which is non rational, for any messenger bringing only science can be guilty of nothing as regards science
Adam Cox
Science destroys the untouchable, for no other purpose than greed for knowledge.
Michael Adams
those are all red herrings
getting into shoulds/shouldnts and budget/economy morality, etc
the issue was only: provable efficacy OR no provable efficacy
and what either is called and how such is demonstrated, one way or the other
Jose Murphy
The scientific method is nice, but in practice we're very starkly limited in using it by our (lack of) power of observation.
Alexander Jackson
I attended a ngillatun the other day, I just casually bumped into it, in the middle of Santiago.
Aiden Lewis
>for no other purpose than greed for knowledge.
"purposes" are things of men, of the mind with a will
those are but specifically labeled and utilized uses OF science, not science in themselves, other than for the search of what is fact of they physical universe, world
if that is ever greed, that is most certainly only of the mind of mankind
physics does not and cannot have a will nor bias nor agenda nor purposes, only cause and effect based on immutable rules
Tyler Hill
Anyone got any redpills on tinnitus, bros? I can't take this much more...
Oliver Hernandez
>Trusting your health to shamanic animal traditions >Before the white man these animals lived to be 30 if they were extremely lucky Might as well rub Szechuan sauce on your ailing body you redditor faggot.
Brody Gomez
>y starkly limited in using it by our (lack of) power of observation.
nope, that is why we have such myriad varied tools to wildly expand observation far far past the horizon of our physical senses and mental calculation
Noah Ross
That's why science it's the eternal loser.
at the end of the day it costs nothing to betray what it's to large to comprehend.
Jeremiah Kelly
non sensical post
>That's why science it's the eternal loser.
if its not science, its nothing but subjection
which is never above fairy tale in the court of proof of reality
>at the end of the day it costs nothing to betray what it's to large to comprehend.
for who? laymen? that fact that any given person, or many/most, dont comprehend a thing is immaterial
John Richardson
>Do you think shamanic healing (curanderismo healing from Mexico being an example) is a good substitute for western medicine?
Shamanic healing couldn't save their people from going extinct by the millions.
Jonathan Bell
It actually did.
Angel Ramirez
whatever has the great efficacy for any given affliction is the best choice
"shamanic healing" is never going to be the candidate that fits that bill in ANY circumstance
Easton Torres
Please, lads. Help me. I don't want to go on like this
Connor Jackson
when in mexico at a hospital do they give you "holistic" medicines? no because they dont work, just a way for natives to make money off curious westerners.
Owen Bell
cpap mask + helium cylinder
Robert Nguyen
Fuck you they don't even charge, what piece of fuck would think like that?
Easton Morales
That's what I'm thinking too. It's unbearable.
Owen Wright
plenty of "shamans" charge lots of money especially when white people are involved.
Gavin Russell
first get a Bible and start reading it NKJV of course it may not work but if you want to try one more last thing besides a finality of yourself, try Christ.
just try it
Liam Baker
Tumeric studies Canabis Oil studies
Look for any of that.
James Price
What is going on here?
Leo James
no those things actually have very effective medicine/preventative uses
Eli Murphy
physics
Mason Hughes
Random arrested machi I got in my folder.
They are a terrorist organization after all.
Wyatt Richardson
It just a more credible and impressive placebo, it "works" because people believe in it.
Brayden Murphy
Holistic healing is retarded. The system it relies on comes from a man who hundreds of years ago decided god made plants have specific parts to represent what part of the body they heal.
>this leaf has spots similar to spots found on a diseased liver. It helps livers!
>This onion is smelly and makes my nose run. Onions cure stuffy noses and colds!!
They even thought if you dilute poison it will help you survive similar poison. Pretty close to vaccines granted. But they refined and diluted by the hundreds. He thought water kept a "memory" of what it had held. To the point the only way to drink a single particle of the original concoction woul be to drink 1000000000 glasses of diluted mixtures.
Shaman healing is just a long line of people who's ancestors did the best they could to find which plants in which amounts will heal you.
They are rooted in quite a lot real cures. We wouldn't have many pills today if it wasn't for the plants medicine men found that the modern world refined and strengthened. A recent discovery showed a tribe has the key ingredient to new inflamation medicine that will help millions. They had been rubbing it to help heal wounds for who knows how long.
I'm into herbal healing because I'm fucking poor and there are many dirt cheap herbs that are 10x more effective than shitty cheap medicine made for the same problem.
I do thorough research and keep books from renowned experts on healing herbs that are proven to heal with chemical reactions.
For example: Shitaki mushrooms. They are so supportive to the immune system in tests compared to certain antibacterial and antiviral medicine, they are comparable to the top percent.
Turmeric: Lubricates joints. Relieves swelling and amazing help for artheritis. But doctors aren't racing to tell nana to add 1/4 tsp a day to her diet.
Ashgawanda: Indians give it to sickly children suffering from famon and the feeble elderly.
Christopher Stewart
Part 2
I tried to talk to my liberal coworker once about herbal remedies because she has a boyfriend who is super sickly and nothing has ever helped him. She said he took herbal supplements so I saw it as a opening to talk about a shared interest. Turned out he just took fucking pot all the time. Pissed me off they didn't even give a shit when I told them about Ashgawanda and they tried to turn the conversation toward getting me to try pot.
Liam James
They do all kind of crazy shit that works fairly efficiently, the two most sophisticated and actually practical are snorted powder and the ballsack sweat administer.
Gavin Reed
It's probably more effective than anti depressants lol
Christian Harris
Even a broken clock is right twice.
Gabriel Thompson
The little girl's expression breaks my heart
Zachary Sanders
Shamans were just the doctors of old. A good shaman would basically be a doctor with no medical equipment having a crazy amount of knowledge about their environment and what can be used as medicine. Most are totally full of shit.
Isaiah Richardson
It's thousands of years of trial and error.
They killed thousand of experiment subjects, but they wanted to know how much they could get out of the body.
Yeah I know, what a shitty day, that's how you know she lived happy that far.
Benjamin Cruz
Anyone I met that actually do the Mexican shaman thing are the high chasers. They experiment with all kinds of drugs, they are actually a smart group of people usually pretty successful but with certain psychological issues.
shamanic medicine works for some things, such as mental illness. (in which it is far advanced of western medicine)
but there's no question that the west has the best surgeons, we can perform real miracles in saving someone from trauma or disease.
Nathaniel Flores
any bibliography to share?
Jason Rivera
left wing holistic remedies are the same as right wing faith healing. Not really a partisan thing.
Whatever you call it, if it works there's probably a mechanism behind it that could be better explained and optimized via western medicine.
That being said, the vast majority of claims about spirit healing working fall completely flat without much critical investigation.
Gabriel Morgan
Shamanic healing vs Western medicine - shamanic healing is more about doing a ritual, getting you into a kind of trance, and completing said ritual. Western medicine on the other hand has you constantly coming back. There is no "end" to the ritual. Both have good/bad sides
Here's a vid on ritual with a guinea pig. They rub it all over your body to determine where your "sickness" or even demon is. The shaman knows where you are afflicted when the guinea pig's back breaks. In this vid they skin the fuckin thing alive though, I don't know why. But then they'll look at the intensines/organs and can determine if you're good or not.
aloe + ashwagandha will make your lung and bronchia expand and open, and your mouth will just keep opening for a while. it's strange as fuck. and you breath differently, like your lungs are just open to the air, you're not really breathing, your mouth is compulsively wide open, and you feel fine.
Daniel Bennett
> if it works > then there is > a mechanism behind it that could be better explained and optimized via western medicine.
ftfy
Dominic Young
wait so the whole "It's so cute I could just skin it alive" is actually medicine?
